I'm glad that everyone is concentrating on the greater meaning behind what I say and how I think...<p>...maybe it's a step closer to realizing how what they think themselves influeces their lives and outlooks.<p>I don't think people that bully and intimidate their spouses (or even think about doing so), or cause property damage in Springer-induced rage, are anywhere near a place to preach to me about morals.<p>I don't mind getting bashed [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Maybe if you're busy doing that you won't beat your wives, crash cars, or boil anyone in acid [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img]

Instead of moralizing and telling others how to act might I suggest you work on yourself? The BSes here have no obligation to stop doing what is normal and healthy just to accomodate your guilty conscience.<p>If it bothers you that much, just skip the thread.

Scarlett,<p>That is a beautiful quote??<p>Watch your thoughts; they become words
Watch your words; they become actions
Watch your actions; they become habits
Watch your habits; they become character
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny<p>Printed it out and hung it in my office.<p>but ???.<p>I'm rolling on the floor laughing!!!! YOU are coming here preaching morality and character? Like I said earlier, for some strange reason, many OP seem to think they are on moral high ground. <p>Yes, the quote is something for us all to try to live by. The people here are struggling with how to do that with the curve that has been thrown at them.<p>And I suppose that you are struggling to live by it too, despite your previous choices to have affairs with married men and to cheat on the men in your life.<p>We all have our struggles. You have often stated that you want to be accepted, forgiven and not preached to. Well then return the favor. You are in no position to preach.

TTF,<p>I wonder if what bothers you the most about the venting thread is that it makes the depth of pain caused the BS so clear.<p>Again I agree with you that the OP is insignificant in that they mean nothing to the BS. However, they are not insignificant in that they actively participate in hurting the BS. No time what so ever should be wasted on thinking of them. That is exactly my take on the subject.<p>BS's who spend too much time/energy on the OP are giving them too much power and control over their lives. Ignoring them keeps our perspective where it should be, on ourselves, our spouses and our marriages.<p>However, there are different cases? <p>In almost all affairs the OP spends time bashing the BS with the WS. That is a direct harm to the BS.<p>Some OP spend a lot of time and energy attacking the BS verbally, stalking them, and doing every thing possible to be hurtful to them.<p>
Some OP are actually 'friends' of the BS. So the BS is twice betrayed. This happened to me in my previous marriage. The mother on my son's friend was one of the OW'en. I wanted to rip her face off.. she came into my home when I was gone taking care of our rental property in another state. I had to make this trip monthly and she was apparently in my home, with my H some of these times. But I did nothing to her.. Instead I broke off all contact with her and her family. Gave her no explanation. She needed none.<p>So in some cases the OP is rather hard to ignore.<p>As for the OP only filling a role and it could have been anyone: Now there is a dehumanizing statement? reducing the OP to simply a piece of meat. You'd be hard pressed to find an OP who believes this. If we can say that the OP has no significance in the affair because it could have been anyone. Then can we not say that the mugger has no responsibility for his crime because it could have been anyone? <p>The statement seems to make the assumption that the OP had no free will in the affair. They choose to be involved and they choose to harm the BS. Just like the mugger, they choose their course. That they did not go up to the BS and physically bonk the BS on their head does not mean that the OP did not purposely harm them.<p>If my kids told me that they were involved in something that, by natural consequences hurt another person, and then my kids said "Well I really did not mean to hurt them, I was only trying to fill a void in myself." Their punishment would be more no less sever then if hurting the person was their only intent. Why? Because they did not think things through. As a parent, it's my job to teach my kids to anticipate the natural consequences of their actions. Most parents would do the same thing.<p>Yet, so often on this forum, people are asking the BS to not hold adults to this standard.<p>TTF, you are a smart woman who does have a lot to give and share. My suggestion is that when you see a post/thread that bothers you that you either ignore it. Or that you try to use your influence, in a non-judgmental, non-preachy manner to bring the conversation and those in it to the right place. That is what is needed and this forum ?.. firm, loving guidance.<p>As for where people here on in their recovery. There are few of us who are in recovery of any sorts. I am one of the lucky ones. Most people in recovery don't hang out here, it's too painful. Most of the people hanging out here are in the middle of either handling their spouse's affair or their own affair. They are being metered out huge dosages of mistreatment daily. Why are you trying to tell them to not have normal human reactions? These people are mostly trying to find their way to get their spouse to save their marriage or to find their way out of the marriage. Those of us in recovery are here to be supportive of those who have been through what we have been through. <p>I have noticed in your posts here that you are very supportive of WS who come here. You understand them and give them compassion. Even when they are in the middle of doing the wrong thing. Yes with BS's you are harsh if they do anything that is not kind and loving? can you find some compassion for what the BS is going through? Perhaps the only way you can, would be if your marriage was going well and your H cheated on you.
Do you know that there is a high probability that he will, statistically speaking? Sometimes people have to experience it before they understand what an affair does to the BS. I know that I would never have understood if it had not happened to me.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by MelodyLane:
<strong><p>Have you considered that you might not be in a position to tell others - especially BS' - what their "road map" is? They didn't run out and have an illicit affair, you did.<p> The BSes here have no obligation to stop doing what is normal and healthy just to accomodate your guilty conscience.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Here Here Melody Lane...you go girl!<p>TTF merely sounds defensive and immature. I need ZERO advice from a arrogant WS, nor do I want it. Her "roadmap" sounds only like rationalization.<p>Maybe she has never looked into her young childs eyes after they learn of the affair. Maybe she's never been empathetic enough to realize the pain she caused others by her affiar. I did not need to be told she is a WS to see it.<p>Roadmap, humph. Roadmap to destruction.<p>Dara

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TowardsTheFuture:
<strong>I'm glad that everyone is concentrating on the greater meaning behind what I say and how I think...<p>...maybe it's a step closer to realizing how what they think themselves influeces their lives and outlooks.<p> [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Oh I am in such a state of gratitude and indebtedness to you your highness.<p>Thank you so very much.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Still Learning As I go:
<strong><p>Oh I am in such a state of gratitude and indebtedness to you your highness.<p>Thank you so very much.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Lol. I just don't see where a WS has any right to tell BS what they are entitled to feel, or what is normal or acceptable for the BS to feel.

ORIGINALLY FROM ZORWEB:
As for where people here on in their recovery. There are few of us who are in recovery of any sorts. I am one of the lucky ones. Most people in recovery don't hang out here, it's too painful. Most of the people hanging out here are in the middle of either handling their spouse's affair or their own affair. They are being metered out huge dosages of mistreatment daily. Why are you trying to tell them to not have normal human reactions? These people are mostly trying to find their way to get their spouse to save their marriage or to find their way out of the marriage. Those of us in recovery are here to be supportive of those who have been through what we have been through. <p>Zorweb you r the bomb. That is exactly what I wanted to say.

You're right...I shouldn't tell you how to feel or act. Pardon me for trying to point out that these kinds of behavior patterns are unhelpful, unproductive, and destructive. You have a right to be as slow and tedious in recovery as you would like to be. Feel free to flounder along as you have been...I certainly won't waste any more time trying to stop you [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TowardsTheFuture:
<strong><p> You have a right to be as slow and tedious in recovery as you would like to be. Feel free to flounder along as you have been...I certainly won't waste any more time trying to stop you [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] </strong><hr></blockquote><p>You just dont quit do you? I am sorry we wasted your time, as you most certainly in your most qualified opinion shared with us.<p>SO, maybe I'll adopt your philosphy. I still hurt in my recovery with H, and his affair still haunts me. <p>He doesnt always meet my needs.<p>So I'll have an affiar of my own! Yeah, thats it. Get someone else to meet my needs, based on your sage advice. And, thanks to you, I can do it without guilt shame or remorse cause you said it was ok.<p>Thank you! I would have never thought of it.
Gotta go find someone, excuse me.<p>Dara

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TowardsTheFuture:
<strong>You're right...I shouldn't tell you how to feel or act. Pardon me for trying to point out that these kinds of behavior patterns are unhelpful, unproductive, and destructive. You have a right to be as slow and tedious in recovery as you would like to be. Feel free to flounder along as you have been...I certainly won't waste any more time trying to stop you [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] </strong><hr></blockquote><p>
You are the person our parents warned us about.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TowardsTheFuture:
You're right...I shouldn't tell you how to feel or act. Pardon me for trying to point out that these kinds of behavior patterns are unhelpful, unproductive, and destructive. <hr></blockquote><p>TTF,<p>Maybe this is wise, because until you have worn the BS's hat, and felt the unbelievable betrayal and grief that comes with discovering infidelity in your marriage, you cannot begin to understand how one would or SHOULD cope with it. As one who was on the other side of the fence, you really can't empathize with the immeasurable pain we experience. Therefore, your advice or recommendations, while written with good intentions, are miles from what we (BS) need to hear, considering the source.<p>Please don't be offended. JMVHO.<p>Jo<p>[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Doggone it. I SO much hate it when this happens. Please, you guys......don't start a big fight with each OTHER here. Most of you are so good, and so strong, and so very,very giving on this board. Please don't turn on each other. PLEASE. <p>We all have so much to deal with in our individual lives. This board is an oasis of help and love to most individuals who utilize it, as Gloryb is to most of the people who post over there. I know that a lot of you know this, but for those who have never read there, or who read an unfortunate thread or two (usually posted by a newbie who is in the "lust" state), the majority of the folks who post at gloryb are not happy about the situation. They aren't gloating, or plotting......in fact most are in active pain, as are so many here. They are trying to figure out how to get out of bed in the morning, how to go on, how to ever believe in anyone again. Also, many are dealing with guilt, the total disbelief that they could EVER have gotten so caught up in something that they were raised to think is wrong. <p>Oh sure...there are a couple who seem to like and actively pursue that type of relationship, but quite frankly, after a month or two, they start learning REAL fast that the "love of their life" is a damn liar, and hard, cold reality hits hard. Most of the ladies and gentlemen who post on gloryb would prefer being boiled alive to ever getting into another relationship that involved infidelity of any sort. <p>I have never been cheated on, (that I am aware of, anyway! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] ) but I can well imagine that I would have a VERY active fantasy life for a while......that may well include poisen darts, tweezers, and electric cattle prods, LOL, so I can't really imagine NOT doing that, but maybe some people are just much nicer than I am. I wouldn't ever DO anything (i don't think, but I have learned never to say never!), but I can certainly imagine thinking about it, if I ever found out that my husband was unfaithful to me, because he is my love, and my life. <p>I have started a few threads over there for the same reason that I imagine that the one in question was started....just to blow off some steam, or because I could see that all of us over there needed a bit of humor. <p>Anyway, I guess I just wanted to encourage us all to care for the members of our boards, no matter if this one or that one thinks exactly as we do...no matter what. I would like to say thanks again to THIS board, as it has helped my husband and I tremendously to build and care for our marriage. Thanks ...... [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Z-<p>LOL! Calm down !!<p>It was never my intension to preach. Reading this thread reminded me of that quote. <p>Honest to God I was 100% dispassionate when I read this thread. It doesn't mean diddly to me. It just reminded me of that sign.

what is I.comm ?

what a nice bunch of forgiving people you all are! Is this Romper room?

TTF:<p>I do agree with you that dwelling on horrible fantasies like bathing in acid OM and WW are wrong, immature, sickening, and unproductive. In my case, said fantasies had such a short lifespan (less than hour) before reality and morality told me that they were wrong,immature,sickening and unproductive.<p>Now let's take the OM and WW affair. Their vile,wrong,immature,sickening and unproductive wrong goes beyond the one hour I had my fantasies. No their wrong goes on and on and on, and the victims, spouses and children, endure the pain of having their world shattered. <p>Living with a WW becomes a hellish experience because in order to justify her evil, she rewrittes history and convinces herself that what she is doing is just because she was pushed by her husband to do it and this in turn makes her lash out against her spouse and children. Don't beleive me?, just ask other BS's how great it is to live with a WS while they are deep in their affair. <p>In a spiritual sense, a WS has already and actually bathed spouse and children in acid.<p>Joe

TTF,
May I quote your part of your sig line?<p>"It is not proud, it is not rude, it is not self-seeking"
T

Not trying to be rude here, but let me guess, Only Human is a WS? <p>I tried to look up the posts from 15895, and each one was pages long, and there were just short little comments.<p>We are all only human. Forgiveness is a tough issue. In fact, God had to send Jesus so we could be forgiven. I think that says volumes.<p>Elizabeth

I did search through some of those long threads till I go the answer... Only Human was first a BS then later a WS.