LOL.... <p>Has anyone noticed??? I just did... after you post your reply, you know the screen always says "sit tight we are taking you back to: _____<p>Well, on this thread it says: <p>"Sit tight... we are taking you back to: reality"... <p>hehe [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

uh huh ... so very true too, Faith. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

UGHHHH!!!! I don't know what else to say. Wake up and smell the coffee! Why are you EVEN here??!!?? [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Maybe think about it this way. If you don't think that you are are having an affair. How would you feel if your wife had a "friend" that stroked HER hair, let her sit on HIS lap, hold HER hand, or KISS HER! Sounds pretty intimate to me!
1step

MM-
1. What is your definition of an affair? You were obssessed, the first symptom of an affair. And it was NOT just emotional unless you were touching/kissing a phantom.<p>2. My H said that the way to get a woman all over you was to ignore her. Sounds like she was playing the same game with you. Her coolness with you just made you pant all the harder...and she did lead you on, unless all the touching and kissing was forced on an unwilling, actively objecting person...she let you get just close enough for a taste and then left you hungry.<p>3. Tell/don't tell...you are going to find a way to justify it, as long as you don't have to suffer the consequences.

Oh, and one other thing...your wife probably knows something is up with you. Believe me, my H knew something was up with me. He trusted me though, wishes he didn't. How can you do that to her?

First off all, no one should apoligize for what they perceive as "harshness" in their posts. This is all so helpful.<p>My reasons for handling this the way I am handling it is because I see this happening at the end of my friendship, affair or whatever you want to call it. The most intense moments, moments when I was crazy in love, despondent and all that other foolishness, were in Oct and Nov and Dec. If I was at that state of mind, I could see why people would advise me to do something drastic.<p>But I feel like this: I was on a cross country trip and I misread the map and ended up on a side road that was quite pleasant, but I found my way back to the highway. Why go back and tell everyone I had a detour, if I don't plan on going back that way? It seems to serve no purpose. I am not trying to hide a friendship so I can pursue this other woman. The intensity of the friendship is dying a natural death.<p>There is NO chance this will develop into a PA. It is not something I want, never wanted even when I was most in the fog. So I don't see it happening now that I am thinking more clearly.<p>By the way, I find the posts to be very helpful, an I am sure that others who read this may see themselves in this spot. You should take comfort in that you are not only helping me, but many others, too

Do I remember you saying that you had kissed? That is a very strange definition of friendship in my opinion! It is becoming more clear that you ask for advice that you have no intention of taking. Maybe the time will come when you realize you don't have true intimacy in your marriage and you will reconsider. Or perhaps this affair of the heart will develop into more, and I imagine then you'll be SHOCKED that it happened. You're playing with fire and only thinking of yourself. Just like most spouses who cheat. You have a chance to do the right thing, which I desperately wish my H had done before he let his 'obsession' lead to sex. There's no going back. Even when I thought it was EA only, it almost broke up our marriage. If you want a marriage built on lies, you're headed in the right direction.

mm,
2 questions. Please answer them best you can.<p>1. Why are you here? What are you looking for?<p>2. How have you found our advice helpful to you? What's good about it? How are you using it - or how can you use it?<p>Thanks [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Just trying to see where you are in this...

I'm sorry to say this, MM. But I see so much denial in your post it's uncanny. I've seen the same words come from a few WS's since my membership here at MB (2 years). So much justification and rationalization. <p>Your lies of omission will catch up with you one day. Your wife WILL find out, matter of time. When she does, she will feel the entire time you kept this a secret she was being betrayed, regardless if the A (and "yes", it IS an affair) lasts or comes to physical fruition. The entire time you've kept this a secret (years perhaps) she will feel betrayed for all those years.<p>Do the right thing and come clean, MM. It will clear the air and allow you and your wife to heal your marriage. Keeping secrets is placing an invisible wall between you and your wife, and you two will never experience true intimacy until you tell her.<p>Jo<p>[ March 08, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

If your wife were to ever ask you to give up a freindship with a woman because your wife feels uncomfortable for ANY reason with that frienship, what would your answer to her be? AND if your answer to your wife is no, why would you say no? If your answer to your wife is ok I will give it up, why would you agree to it? Please, no more smoggy answers, they are making me short of breath and my eyes are watering.

MM,
Forget definitions of A's...that's not as important as the work you need to do now anyway.<p>You do need to take some time for a real evaluation of your life. Ask yourself some of these questions.<p>What about yourself did you like when with the OW. Because that is the need of yours that was being fed by the relationship. <p>What has been going on in your life that made you susceptible to another woman? Were you avoiding something in your own marriage, looking for something, missing something?<p>If you compare the way you interact with the OW and your wife..what are the differences? Remember, an A has more to do with YOU than anyone else.<p>These are just some of the questions a therapist would ask you..there are more, but, to protect the sanctity of your marriage, you need to start doing some work. This may be a good time to consider seeing a therapist.<p>As far as telling your wife..or what to tell your wife, she probably already suspects something...just isn't sure what. Sorta like going to the doctor with some vague symptoms, he runs some tests and then calls you and says, "hey I know what's wrong....see if you can figure it out!" Not really fair, and you'd certainly run around with all sorts of wild ideas and fears trying to figure it out.<p>Perhaps you fear that your marriage isn't strong enough right now to withstand a confession..Fine...get some of the books (His Needs,Her Needs/Love Busters) and start making your marriage stronger.<p>And always keep in mind, that anything you are capable of doing, your mate is also. So, reread your posts as if they were written by her. What would you, as the BS want?
Good luck,
T

I came to the board initially because I wondered if I could still be friends with this woman. I argued a bit, but came to realize that the answe was no.<p>I posted last week because my heart ached as I was breaking away emotionally and wondered how others had dealt with that.<p>What you may be missing is that my EA is over with this woman. I am not pursuing it, and it certainly will not lead to a PA. <p>I have given some thought as to why I got in this spot: The feeling of being in love, dating in a sense, going to dinner on the project;
I remedied that in my own marriage by trying to do more of that with my wife.<p>I see no reason, when I am headed in the right direction, to bring up what is old news and hurt her.

well, I can see your point. I really can. And perhaps you will feel differently in time about sharing it with your wife. I would certainly hope that you will at least continue studying the principles of MB, and sharing them with your W, in order to prevent this from happening again, by either of you. I'm almost positive your W knows something is wrong (or was wrong, from what you're saying). Just please believe all of us BS's when we say we would have loved to hear something like from our WS's. If I had understood that my H was really susceptible to an affair, I could've done something about it, and perhaps we could've prevented it and a divorce. I NEVER thought he was capable of an affair, and your W probably feels the same way. <p>Please get her attention... read the books together, fill out the questionnaires.... it will make your marriage stronger and more fulfilling for both of you. The MB principles are not just for surviving affairs... they are to strengthen and improve marriages. If you are *convinced* that your affair is over, and you even said it wasn't an affair, then at least study and use the principles anyway. <p>just my 2 cents. You're an adult. You know how you feel - we don't. But please accept some of our words because some of us have been at this for a while. k?

I listen to all your words. I find them very helpful, even if I may disagree with the specifics. I find the thought behind them admirable and given with only good wishes.

MM,
I think you are making good progress. When will your project with this OW be over? <p>I have felt bad because my friend and I were just friends, but I broke the rules and fell in love with him. I still feel bad about that. He needed and wanted a friend but I fell in love.<p>When I realized that me and my male friend would never have more than a friendship because we were both in other committed relationships, we decided that we couldn't be in touch any more...at least for now. It just wasn't right, I had broken the rules and had fallen in love...<p>Like you, I not only love this OM, but I really like him and it tears me up to think that we can't be friends, which is really what I wanted from day one. <p>This whole thing has taught me a lot about me and how I deal with developing new friends, and where my weaknesses are. What keeps me from contacting this OM now is knowing that I'll never be able to be friends with him until I can get over him. <p>Frankly, I look forward to the chance where we can start our friendship over, and not make the mistakes we both made early on. <p>I am very stubborn and I refuse to accept that two people that like each other and are attracted to each other can't be friends. I have a fundamental problem with that...and I am determined to prove everyone else wrong....but before I can do that, we need to disassociate. I need to know that I can feel friendship love for him, not romatic love for him. ..I'm not sure how long it will take, or if I'll really ever be able to be friends with him, but I will know when it's possible.<p>And that hope is keeping me strong.<p>Good luck!

MM/ashirley,
I had an affair with my old HS BF. He initially contacted me to catch up on old times, to reconnect as "friends". NOT! Now that I am in recovery I know that I can never contact him again. At first after D-day, I thought that somehow we could still be friends. Maybe someday...after all he is my old BF. But the further I get into recovery, the less I want to have to do with him. I will never be friends with him. I know how you feel, if only you can have them in your life, even as a friend. It's makes it tolerable. The thought of loosing them is unbearable. So...maybe as just a friend. I know for a fact, it's not going to happen. Not after you've had romantic feelings for them.<p>Just my thoughts.
1step

My project will end with this woman in a month or so, and I think that when it ends it could be possible to be friends -- strictly friends. When my romantic feelings disipate it seems it could be fine, as it was me who had the feelings.<p>In a sense, starting over without all the nonsense that I started

Please read SAA(Surviving an Affair) or at least the info. about affairs on this board.<p>Why would you want to be friends with this person? <p>You could spend the amount of time that you spend being friends, working on your marriage with your wife so that you don't want to be friends with anyone else.<p>You are going through withdrawal - and it really hurts to go through it! But know that the pain will get better - the worst being over in about 3 weeks - BUT if you have contact with this person the time period for withdrawal starts all over! If you read the recovery stories, you will hear how wonderful a marriage can be following an event like this - given both partners work on the marriage.<p>People want you to tell your wife so that she can help you through withdrawal and learn with you on how to better your marriage, because if you had a perfect marriage you wouldn't be looking for friends of the opposite sex. <p>Stay strong! K

Run this by your wife. Say honey, if you ever make a mistake and fall in love with a another guy, and do things with him that you know would hurt me, PLEASE do not tell me about it, just deal with it yourself, keep the pain to yourself, it would be very selfish of you to share it with me and cause me pain. Tell her that you will do the same thing for her if you ever fall in love with another woman. If she enthusiastically agrees to that way of handling mistakes and weaknesses, keeping "secrets" instead of having emotional intimacy, then right or wrong at least you are of the same mindset. You will never know if your wife makes a mistake with the men in her life.

1Step,
Thanks for your kind words. I hope you're wrong. But you are probably right. Only time will tell. <p>I have learned so much about what I did wrong with the OM when we first met, and what he did wrong. I believe if both of us had known more about friendship and how to make and keep friends as adults, we'd be having coffee now.
As children or as adults, we never learn about how to make and keep friends of the opposite sex..it's very, very sad.<p>Throughout life we will meet people we feel attracted to/and a chemistry with. I don't think that we should have to close the door to those people. Those are the people you want to get to know, develop as friends and share your life with...not with people you don't feel an attraction for.