Ashirley:
You are so right. I think that is so much of the reason why men and women my age -- in their 40s --find themselves drawn into emotional affairs. For most of us, we came of age during the sexual revolution. I have had more sex with more women and in more ways than any one of men my father's age.<p>But so what?<p>I think my generation became to used to casual sex that we are bored by it, and we have lost our way when it comes to loving sex. We simply don't have any role models.<p>But what we long for is the sense of intimacy that can develop between a man and a woman as friends, that chemistry and spark. Our parents enjoyed that. I remember growing up and listening to the parties, the bridge nights and there was a lot of flirting going on. It made everyone feel good.<p>But my generation doesn't know how to flirt. We know how to rush right to bed.<p>So when I became friends with this woman it was as a friend with the added spark, and it confused me because I did not know how to handle it.<p>As for telling my wife, no way. I simply won't do that. And if my wife was in this spot, I don't think I would want to know about it either. <p>This is something I need to work out alone

MM............seems that you are getting the very same advice that you were given on another board, although it seems that you are admitting to a little more here than you did there. Many of us reached out to you, told you where this was headed and still you are lamenting over this woman.Obviously as you have been told before, this woman is not as in control of her emotions as you stated and neither are you. You can not be "friends" with this woman and telling her that you love her is only feeding her ego stroke. I hope that you find the help here that you chose not to listen to on the other board.

MM,
I agree with your previous email. <p>I'm in my mid-40's, and married for nearly 21 years. I had been brought up thinking that the bottomline for men is that they wanted to have sex. I didn't understand or believe my friend, when he said he wanted to be friends. I thought that he really wanted to have sex. And the only way I could do that was leave my H. I realized the last time we talked how wrong I had been. He had really meant what he said, I just couldn't hear it. I'm really sad, because I wasn't a good friend. I didn't know how to be one. I think that the line between romantic love and friendship love is very grey.. My friend is a wonderful person, I even introduced my H to him bc I knew they'd like each other. <p>Anyway, I know that I have got to let go, before I can go forward. I'm getting there.

What you seem to really want is something very temporary, that 'chemistry' and rush you feel when you first fall for someone. As you know it doesn't last, it turns into something deeper and more meaningful over time. Mature love. Not adolescent crushes. That fades and because of that, many people go from person to person, affair to affair to try to recapture it. Then after it fades with that person, they move on again. You should read the book by Wheat about the love languages. You'll see what I mean.<p>It saddens me that you are spending all of this time working on your feelings for another woman, but won't do what's 'right' and talk to your wife. I don't think there's much chance for you to have a true intimacy in your marriage until you do. It's your choice, but I don't support or encourage it.

Emotional vs physical intimacy...ask your wife which she prefers.
T

I agree with all that you have said. Except I am not going to tell my wife of my past feelings for this woman.
That seems to serve no purpose that to make me feel good. At the root, that seems pretty selfish. I should work this out alone

On the subject of not telling your wife, I am the BS, H had EA, has had other A's also. Knowing you are not going to tell her brought up in me an emotion I can't describe. Fear and anger, not sure exactly about what part of this thing. I have to think about this, will get back to you. This is very painful to watch, but I feel compelled to do so.

Dear Abby and Ann Landers both advise to not tell about an affair. And I did not even have an affair, so me telling my wife about my feelings seems to be not only self-desctructive, but cruel. I just get the point of it.<p>If I am not going to have an affair, if I am not looking to take my friend to bed, what is the point of telling my wife how I feel?<p>Let's say some woman is hired at work and I find her very attractice. We go to lunch a few times and then I feel very tempted. But I control myself and realize the stupidity of it and go back to the way things were.<p>What would be the point of coming home and telling my wife about that? It would be plain crazy.<p>This situation is not like that, but my infatuation is over and it seems absurd to drag my wife into the mud with me. And to say nothing of the woman friend and her family

mm,
I have to agree with replaced. We should step back and say OK, you have to figure this out on your own. BUT, the emotions you are welling up on this side of the screen is forcing me to respond to you.<p>You are making excuses and justifying. <p>Let me say this again.... my H thought his relationship was NOTHING. He NEVER intended to take that woman to bed EITHER. He had lunch with her once. I don't know to what other extent their EMOTIONAL AFFAIR went, but yes, it DID turn into a pyhsical affair. My H was withdrawing from me for a few weeks, and I didn't know WHY. It hurt - I didn't know what I did, or why he was pulling away from me. This caused more tension, which pushed him further away from me. If I had KNOWN he had feelings for another woman, I could have helped him. Even if I couldn't have helped, I deserved to know. If you're susceptible to these strong feelings - they were strong enough to cause you to come here seeking help!!!! If you were susceptible to feeling them ONCE, it will happen again, if you don't do something about it!!!

This may sound kind of rigid...but how about not eating lunch or dinner alone with other women anymore? Seems like that's how this started. And personally, I do think it may happen again. You're missing something either inside of yourself or your marriage that is tempting you. If you don't face that, you're leaving yourself and your marriage open to more damage. Yesterday I told my H that I read somewhere that people who have affairs (EA or PA) and don't get 'caught,' are much more likely to do it again. I asked him if he thought that was true. He thought about it for a moment and said "Yes, especially if they don't get help and think they got away with it."
So I asked him if he felt he 'got away with it' and he admitted he did, until I finally found out the truth. Big chance you're taking and you said it first....selfish. Hope you change your mind.

The issue has always been with me -- my feelings toward the woman and how I react or don't react to those feelings. I have worked out what I was feeling, realize that it was fantasy and that it was not real.<p>Once I realized that, I believe I have been able to step back and see where things fit or don't fit in my life and the life I have with my wife.<p>I have said this repeatedly, and no one believes me, but I never, ever, wanted a PA affair with this woman. If she had come to me and told me to take her to bed, I would not have done it.<p>I do agree with someone who said that the feelings toward her may have been noticeable at home -- in sept and oct. -- when I was obsessed with her. But I don't feel that way now.<p>Someone said I am selfish. I disgree. I would be selfish if I wanted to pursue and affair with this woman, but I don't.<p>I think I would be selfish if I told me wife about something that was over so I could relieve any guilt, or to simply follow some presecribed rules handed down on how to handle such things. That would be selfish because it would be about me.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by mmseekingadvice:
<strong>Dear Abby and Ann Landers both advise to not tell about an affair. And I did not even have an affair, so me telling my wife about my feelings seems to be not only self-desctructive, but cruel. I just get the point of it.<p>If I am not going to have an affair, if I am not looking to take my friend to bed, what is the point of telling my wife how I feel?<p></strong><hr></blockquote><p>But mm, YOU ARE HAVING AN AFFAIR!!!!! And you would be telling your wife not only how you feel, but what you HAVE DONE - kissing, caressing, expressing love for another woman.<p>This is Marriage Builders, mm, not an advice column. Dr. Harley, the founder of this site does believe firmly that confessing an affair is an absolute necessity for healing a marriage.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Most unfaithful spouses know that their affair is one of the most heartless acts they could ever inflict on their spouse. So one of their reasons to be dishonest is to protect their spouse from emotional pain. "Why add insult to injury," they reason. "What I did was wrong, but why put my spouse through needless pain by revealing this thoughtless act?" As is the case with bank robbers and murderers, unfaithful spouses don't think they will ever be discovered, and so they don't expect their unfaithfulness to hurt their spouse. <p>But I am one of the very few that advocate the revelation of affairs at all costs, even when the wayward spouse has no feelings of guilt or depression to overcome. I believe that honesty is so essential to the success of marriage, that hiding past infidelity makes a marriage dishonest, preventing emotional closeness and intimacy. <p> <hr></blockquote><p>You are a classic example of a WS deeply lost in the fog of self-delusion, mm. Sadly, the only one who is fooled by your justifications is you, and your marriage will remain in jeopardy until you accept responsibility for your affair and figure out how to stop your self-destructive behavior. If you can't figure out how to stop (after all, this is your second affair), it is only a matter of time before your marriage blows up in your face, and your will have no one to blame but yourself.<p>Please stop denying the truth of what you have been doing. Only then will you make progress in strengthening your M which is at this point a sham.<p>Estes

My second affair? I didn't have a previous affair.
As for this friendship, or affair if you want to call it that, the intensity of it is over.<p>That has been my issue. Why should I tell my wife about something that is over? I don't see what good that does.<p>Yes, I agree that I have to figure out what is missing in me and my marriage and work on that. I have to determine what hole I have in my life. But those are things I must do. I certainly don't want to hurt others while learing about those issues.

[QWhat you may be missing is that my EA is over with this woman. I am not pursuing it, and it certainly will not lead to a PA. UOTE] [/QUOTE]<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> <hr></blockquote>Dear Abby and Ann Landers both advise to not tell about an affair. And I did not even have an affair, so me telling my wife about my feelings seems to be not only self-desctructive, but cruel.<p>Ok, which is it? Did you or didn't you? Are you playing a game with these nice people here or is it possible to really be this confused?<p>I don't think you are in a fog at all, excuse me for being rude if it comes off that way, but I really don't think you have any intention of following the advice you are given, it seems to me that you are mmseekingattention.And it is sad to say the least. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Bridgette

Still working on the whole quote, bold system...sorry about the confusion in my post but if you've been following you know what I meant. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

mm,<p>You say:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> My second affair? I didn't have a previous affair. As for this friendship, or affair if you want to call it that, the intensity of it is over. <hr></blockquote><p>Below is a direct quote from your first post on February 16.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I am in my mid 40s, married for more than 20 years and happy. Health is good, good job, quite content with my life. I had one brief affair years ago with an old girlfriend. That lasted a couple months and it ended and that was the end of that. I am not the kind of guy who goes out looking for affairs, have have turned down two outright propositions over the last couple years.
<hr></blockquote> <p>Hummm. Am I mistaken? Was this affair not an affair either, just like your relationship with the current OW is not an affair.<p>mm, it does not matter what I, or anyone else for that matter, call your relationship with your business associate. Call it a whatever you want, but what it IS is an affair.<p>See how a person involved in the fog of an affair revises history? See what contradictory things you have told us? Unless you are honest with yourself and your W, your M will continue to be in BIG trouble.<p>I am not trying to be difficult, mm. We pay close attention here at MB in an attempt to help people. We remember what people say as we plan our replies. But if you don't remember your own history - OR choose to revise it, how can we help?<p>Estes

I find myself getting too frustrated responding and reading these posts. I think I will concentrate on somebody who really DOES want help. Not just attention while they justify their actions and claim they are only thinking of their spouse and their other woman. Good luck, I do think you will need it if you don't wake up!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by maggierose:
<strong>I find myself getting too frustrated responding and reading these posts. I think I will concentrate on somebody who really DOES want help. Not just attention while they justify their actions and claim they are only thinking of their spouse and their other woman. Good luck, I do think you will need it if you don't wake up!</strong><hr></blockquote><p>maggierose is right. He knows the right thing to do and has received plenty of advice from objective bystanders but continues to spin the facts so he can avoid facing any consequences. Hopefully he will come around, but he hasn't learned anything in 5 pages of advice, another 5 pages sure as hell won't do the trick.<p>Call us when you wake up, mm.

I stand corrected on the second affair. I thought you meant a recent affair.
I find this board to be highly helpful. And yet I can not believe that there are people out there who know exactly where I am coming from.
How many of the people who had affairs are telling me to tell my wife because they got caught?
This is the only place I have ever heard anyone say to tell your spouse about an affair. But all of the people posting -- or the vast majority of those -- are the BS. I would like to hear from the person who did not tell, went on to find peace and never regretted not telling.

mm,<p>I wholeheartedly agree with all the advice you have received here! I just want to add that you keep going back to a couple things, first being that you refuse to call this "friendship" an A! It has been told to you, repeatedly, that your description of your friendship is a classic definition of an EA! And you've complicated it with the touching and kissing, which are physical! Therefore, it is also a PA! Regardless of how you feel now, you have still betrayed your W! It doesn't matter if you followed through with your "fantasy" or not, you had a relationship with this OW that was not right!<p>The second thing you keep going back to is this "selfishness" and not telling your W! Your claim to not want to hurt your W is somehow ringing untrue! If you didn't want to hurt your W, you wouldn't keep this secret! You have this Martyr type syndrome of "I should be suffering, and that's my punishment, so I will deal with it myself" That IS being selfish! And, by doing this you are NOT saving your W the pain, you are just postponing it! Trust me, I've been on both sides of this coin! Keeping secrets doesn't help anyone or anything, they just get bigger, and harder to hide!<p>I think I'm done now.<p>Just my $.02.<p>Tigger4