I give up .. he is not "hearing" any of this.

Once again I came here for the following reasons:<p>1. Figure out how you get over the achey heart feeling.<p>As part of that advice people told me to tell my wife. That is what the ensuing discussion has been about.<p>
My point is that there have been people who have not told, and who have had great marriages. Those people will not be on this board because they have moved on with their life.<p>That is my only point. I am not going to tell my wife. Everyone keeps telling me to do so, but to what end?<p>If I am happy and moving on, secure in my marriage, how does it help me?<p>If my wife is happy, how will telling her this help her?<p>If my friend never thought it was an affair, how will telling her husband help her?<p>All I see is four people getting hurt. I believe if I posted this question to the general population, I would get people would would understand and agree with me.<p>I am not trying to convince you guys, but I am sure there are many pepople who understand what I am doing and why.<p>Isn't the phrase: Let sleeping dogs lie.

You may be right. That is totally your decision. We're just offering our experiences, and the Harleys' professional experience.<p>I just thought of another example. My sister had an EA with her neighbor. It was very much as you described yours. SHe was unhappy with her marriage, as she had requested counseling and expressed her needs many times to her H, with no results or changes. THey moved to this new neighborhood, and she soon developed a great friendship with the neighbor. He made her feel good about herself, encouraged her, they laughed together - not too dangerous so far, huh? THey began jogging together in the mornings, hanging out together more and more, then there was a kiss, then another. And that's it. THat was all there was to it. No sex, nothing physical except 2-3 kisses, hugs, hand-holding, jogging, laughing, talking. Well, in addition to the stress that was already in the marriage, H knew something was wrong - but didn't know what. In one violent evening, H pulled a gun on her, and he was quickly wisked away to jail, then they went straight to divorce court and the marriage was over.<p>Did her EA end the marriage? We will never know. I think the marriage was in trouble already. Her EA CERTAINLY didn't help the marriage.<p>Here's my point. She will live with that question forever. H still knows nothing about her "friendship" with the neighbor - 6 years later. She questions herself over and over and over. Knows what she did was wrong and dishonest. Especially now that my H had an A and destroyed my marriage. Her past has come back to haunt her. <p>Well, things like this is what we're trying to help you with. YOUR conscience.<p>The 2nd thing we are trying to help you with, is your future. What HAVE you learned from this experience? What changes have you learned need to be made in your marraige? What did you do wrong to allow this relationship to occur? <p>k?

Say MM ...<p>You cannot go on with the OLD marriage. To follow Marriage Builders principals and concepts you should start a new marriage, rebuild.<p>So, looks like you're willing to settle with a New Marriage that has a foundation of lies ... as opposed to the truth. You're allowing yourself self-absolution by way of omission of your lies, and think your new marriage will be stable? .... lies are shifting sand .... nothing stable can ever take root.<p>In time I can imagine you will do something else that you feel your wife doesn't need to know about, you have already proven you have a pattern, 2 A's during your marriage. <p>Tell us what has changed in you that you won't do this again? <p>The only way you can correct this is to come clean and start anew. Tell your wife.<p>Jo<p>[ March 11, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Dear Faith:
I found your last post to be be very interesting. I imagined my friend as your sister. Do you think my friend considered me her "lover,' or that she considered we were having an affair. I wonder now that maybe she did, but did not express it.<p>I was seeing things through my eyes.<p>I am trying to figure out the holes in myself that led me to be attracted to this woman in an emotional way.

good! Glad you are seeing this from a different perspective now. Something you said reminded me of my story, then I actually got an e-mail from my sister, and bells went off. haha....<p>Well, I'm glad you responded cuz I had decided that was my last effort to try to help you. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Sounds like you are on a productive train of thought. <p>Keep at it. Keep reading and posting! You'll find some answers, and maybe some more questions [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] .

Ok, I have a post that I would really like a response to, but some of the most helpful people on the board are over here banging on brick walls. I could really use your help, and I promise to listen...Might you see it in your hearts to escape from this prison and really help someone (some1s_mom) [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Bridgette

MM,<p>Hi, been following your story for a while, and I guess I'd like to give you a hand too.<p>You say that, well if your wife doesn't know, she can't be hurt. To be sincere, I don't know, but what I have learnt on a lifetime of relationships and friendships I can tell you something... whatever made you get into an EA is what eventually will poison and kill your M and your W.<p>You let a dangerous monster filter through your M, a monster able to destroy all happiness and life. That monster was born out of your M's weaknesses, and the only way to kill it forever is to make your M strong.<p>Marriage involves 2 persons. You and your wife. MM, I know you love your wife, don't you? Why else would you be on MB? Lets say you were playing with scissors and knives and other sharp objects. You didn't get hurt, neither did the friend you were playing with, but now the sharp objects are scattered all over your own house, in your bed, your couch, the shower, everywhere. You know it, so you can dodge them, but your wife can't.<p>You don't want to disturbe your wife's daily routine to tell her: "Honey, I left a bunch of glass on that floor you are about to step in" You think that if she doesn't see it, even if she gets cut she won't feel it.<p>Well what if she senses they are there? what if she steps on them over and over, getting more and more wounded. She doesn't know why she is getting sick, sad, lonely. Everything seems alright. She doesn't say anything, because she thinks it may be all paranoia, and she chooses to wear a smile and try to ignore the wounds and pain.<p>Too bad you don't seem to realize she is back at home, trying to figure out what the hell is wrong. But as long as she doesn't start bleeding prominently you are cool with it. Let her trip, let her rip the skin off her body bumping on those lies and deceit.<p>People have affairs all the time, never tell and move on happily. So why not you? Why cannot you have your cake, nibble on it too, and then walk out of it?<p>What if your wife did it to you?<p>One day you come home and you know something is wrong, but you don't say anything, because you believe on her, you believe she loves you so much she wouldn't do such a thing.<p>Look at yourself MM. Tell me, could you look in your wife's eyes and bear the thought that she BELIEVES with all of her soul that you would NEVER in a thousand years would do something like what you did?<p>Now please don't get me wrong, I am not attacking you, just letting you know. The more lies you tell the less and less freedom and respect you will get. <p>A real man knows the consequences to his acts and takes them, no matter what. Now I can tell you, you are just a mouse.<p>Do you think that a marriage can be happy when you, the one that was weak, cannot understand what made him fall into an EA? what are you going to do when you figure out? You aren't going to tell your wife, are you? why? afterall, she might be helpful, she might be as well the only person on Earth who could fix it and allow your M to be happy and full again.
But... no... no no no! That would hurt her, but once again... would it hurt her more to have her M get poisoned and die slowly?
But but.. if you tell her now... then she'll be hurt NOW!
Can you bear with the lies for the rest of your life?
Could you bear with the knowledge of what you did if it ultimatedly develops into a huge factor of the death of your marriage?
Could you bear being adored and considered the most faithful husband when you are not?<p>Once again... some marriages... sometimes... for periods of time, live happily after an affair if the WS never tells.<p>Do you know if the BS lives happily?
Maybe...
Are you prepared to take the risks?
For what you say... Yes

MM - my last post to you on any of these topics. Just like before, you search out advice to confirm what you think is right, instead of listening to those that have been through this.<p>I will let Dr. Harley's word speak for themself: <p>(take from http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_honesty.html)<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
But there is a third reason that honesty is crucial in marriage. Honesty is the only way that you and your spouse will ever come to understand each other. Without honesty, the adjustments that are crucial to the creation of compatibility in your marriage cannot be made. Without honesty, your best efforts to resolve conflicts will be wasted because you will not understand each other well enough to find mutually acceptable solutions. <hr></blockquote><p>Without honesty, your wife will never understand why things she may have been trying, never worked; why you were distant.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Most couples do the best they can to make each other happy, at least for a while. But their efforts, however sincere, are often misdirected. They aim at the wrong target. Ignorance, not lack of effort, is often the most important cause of their ultimate downfall. <hr></blockquote><p>Affairs don't kill marriages. Lack of honesty does.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Couples are not only ignorant of ways to improve their marriages; they are often ignorant of the problems themselves. To avoid conflict, they sometimes deliberately misinform each other as to their feelings, personal history, activities, and plans. This not only leads to a failure to meet an important emotional need, and a withdrawal of love units when the deception is discovered, it also makes marital conflicts impossible to resolve. After all, how can you and your spouse solve a problem if your cards are not on the table? <hr></blockquote><p>You may come to understand why you did this but your wife will never get the priviledge of knowing her husband. Your secrecy creates an emotional barrier to intimacy that your wife will never be able to overcome. She will continue to bump into that barrier, not knowing that it exists. Truth allows her to go around that barrier - it also tears it down for you.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>The Policy of Radical Honesty
Reveal to your spouse as much
information about yourself as you know;
your thoughts, feelings, habits, likes,
dislikes, personal history, daily activities,
and plans for the future.<hr></blockquote><p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>HISTORICAL HONESTY: Reveal information about your personal history, particularly events that demonstrate personal weakness or failure.<hr></blockquote><p>If what you did does not qualify as a weakness, I don't know what does.<p>Below is where Ann Landers and her ilk fall into thinking:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>To some extent this policy seems like motherhood and apple pie. Who would argue that it's not a good idea to be honest? But in my years of experience as a marriage counselor, I have constantly struggled with the belief of many clients that dishonesty can be a good idea under certain conditions. Moreover, pastors and counselors themselves often advise dishonesty when a spouse has committed a particularly thoughtless act, such as infidelity. <hr></blockquote><p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>While many people feel that embarrassing experiences or serious mistakes of the past should be forgotten, most psychologists recognize that these are often signs of present weakness. For example, if someone has ever had an affair, he may be vulnerable to another one. If someone has ever been chemically dependent, he is vulnerable to drugs or alcohol abuse in the future. By expressing past mistakes openly, your spouse can understand your weaknesses, and together you can avoid conditions that tend to create problems for you. <hr></blockquote><p>You keep asking for help; you are ignoring the one person that can help you the most, your wife. You have a history of innapropriate relationships. You wife can help.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I've had clients argue that if they tell their spouses about mistakes made decades earlier, their spouses will be crushed and never trust them again. Why not just leave that little demon alone? <p>My answer is that it's not a "little demon." If you've had an affair, it's an extremely important part of your personal history, and it says something about your predispositions. If you've had an affair in the past, your spouse shouldn't trust you -- I certainly wouldn't. <p>But what if you haven't strayed since it happened? What if you've seen a pastor regularly to hold you accountable? Why put your spouse through the agony of a revelation that could ruin your relationship forever? <p>I'd say you don't give your spouse much credit! Honesty does not drive a spouse insane -- dishonesty does. People in general, and women in particular, want to know exactly what their spouses are thinking and feeling. When you hold something back, your spouse tries to guess what it is. If he or she is right, then you must continually lie to cover your tracks. If he or she is wrong, an incorrect understanding of you and your predispositions develops. <hr></blockquote><p>See the damage you are doing your wife and your marriage by keeping this a secret?<p>Is this you?: <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Maybe you don't really want to be known for who you are? That's the saddest position of all. You'd rather keep your secret than experience one of life's greatest joys -- to be loved and accepted in spite of your weaknesses. <hr></blockquote><p>Like I said, last bit of help from me. There are simply far too many other people here that will listen to reason and I would rather give them the little wisdom I have learned instead of continueing to beat against your wall of denial.

Before this goes any further, are you going to tell us if this affair from years ago was during your current marriage? Did your wife ever find out? Or was this another case of trying to 'protect' her feelings? If so, DO YOU SEE A PATTERN HERE?

Testimony by a WS of "WHY" you tell
Authored by Regretting (copied from Recovery Brd)<p>--------------------------------------------------
Great topic. One many people, including myself, have been or are struggling with.<p>In my case, my H found out about the A before I could tell him. And then the questions started. I had never planned on telling him about the A at all let alone any of the details. I was resistant at first but eventually came clean on all of it. <p>In retrospect, I can say that I didn't want him to know and didn't want to give details because of my embarrassment. I didn't want to hurt him but it was the embarrassment that was the biggest thing. But despite the embarrassment on my part and the hurt on his, I believe (and I think he would agree) we are better off in the long run for it. <p>Since the inital disclosure, there have been questions that we deam "details". These are some of the hardest questions to answer but I do. I always tell him that these answer are details and let him descide if he really wants to know. If he does, I tell. Honesty and openness is one of the biggest things is rebuilding trust. <p>Although we both continue to struggle with is knowing better than now knowing, we have recently found that the details aren't as bad as they were a few months back. And it is hard not to revisit things once they have been said. Dr. Harley says to reveal everything and the leave it alone. That is easier said than done. These conversations are always ackward and difficult but honesty and openness is best in my opinion.<p>Once upon a time, I could not have imagine telling my H the things I have told him over the last few months. But now that I have...I'm really glad I did. We are working on recovering our M. In order to do that, we both have be be playing on a level playing field with the same rules! <p>Telling all is the only way to do that!<p>[ March 11, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>