.....A divorce. A lot has happened the past 4 days. Suffice it to say that I have more reason to hate March.<p> W asked for a seperation. I have already tried that route. Told her no. I want a divorce. <p> Yesterday(D-Day anniv)she knew I was depressed. Sad for the lost time, lost love, everything. What did she do? She disappears for 2 hours after class. <p> No calls to me. No calls to our kids. Nothing. <p> Last Saturday I was told W has been skipping class and leaving with a guy. The one who had sent her E-Cards. Of course W denies this. <p> Stick a fork in me, I'm done. Called the Lawyer this morning. <p> Any words of strength for me? [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

words of strength.... ummmm.... 2 quotes in my e-mail this morning:<p>"We are made wise not by the recollection of our past, but
by the responsibility for our future." -- George Bernard
Shaw<p>"When you focus on what might have been, it gets in the way
of what can be." -- Patricia Fripp<p>{{{{{{{{{{{{JD}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<p>Perhaps starting this is what you need. We all know that Plan B is probably a better step for you, but only YOU know what you can do. Perhpas starting it is what you need, and you can always stop it if you decide to, or if she realizes you are serious, AS LONG as "waking her up" is not your goal.<p>Keep us posted today. You've been through a lot, and your W obviously isn't recommitting. It's time to do something.

(((((((((((((jdmac1))))))))))))<p>I guess all of us have a limit. We can try to be the perfect spouse, but if you have reached a point in your life where you just can't take it anymore, where you just can't seem to see an end and be happy with the outcome, then I really don't blame you.<p>The road is dark and dangerous, but eventually you will be able to smile again.

Faith,<p> Thanks for the hugs. No, "waking her up" is not in the equation. I honestly can't ever see her "waking up". She will have the chance of course. But only until I scrape together the money to actually pay the lawyer and file the papers. Assuming she doesn't contest it will be over in less than 90 days. <p> Alostwife,<p> Thanks. I could have gone on. I would have gone on in fact. But there always seems to be another guy around to give her whatever it is she gets. You realize this would be #4? <p> jd<p> <p> jd

OK, did you come here so we can talk you out of this. I'll bite if you did. <p>Please don't make a decision based off of emotion. Take some time to think this through and make sure that you are ready for the outcome if it goes through. If you are playing a card, then you take the chance that she will call the bluff. <p>Consider the pros and cons of filing vs. Plan B. Then make your decision. <p>And remember that this is not the woman you love doing this; this is some imposter and sooner or later the mothership will get tired of your real wife and bring her back.

Sinkingfast,<p> No. I did not come here to be talked out of it. You can't imagine the number of times I have heard exactly what you said, ie; plan b, mothership, etc. <p> No card playing. <p> jd

jd--<p>IMHO, a one-time affair is a good deal less difficult to recover from, and offers more hope than a case where affairs are repeated. I think you have done all that you could do, and more than most people would...you've given it a great effort. I hope you can go forward and heal, knowing that you gave your wife & the marriage every chance. And, if/when you are ready, you will make someone a wonderful husband.<p>Hang in there--<p>Kathi

JD - OK, so my assumption was wrong. Hey can't blame me for trying can you? <p>I would like to ask you a question though. Is there anything that your WS could do that would make you change your mind? Just something to think about because it seems to me that sometimes when this step is taken the WS seems to step up to the plate and take action. What will you do if this happens?<p>I just want you to be prepared.<p>Praying for you and your family.
Sinking

JD,<p>I'm sad for you man. I know that you've come along way. The last time I posted to you when all this was going this direction, I felt I was the anchor on your side in this tug of war.<p>I'm not trying to talk you out of anything... [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>You know you best. I've followed you closer than I've followed others. I get my updates elsewhere [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>One thing that comes to my mind is this. Now put your boots on were going to shovel some ****. Yes as you say this would be number 4. That is a horrible thing JD. Horrible. BUT, for just a minute I want you to look at the cards. There has been one queen, and maybe 4 jokers. Sounds like she's got you beat. Think about it for a min. There isn't an ace. There isn't a king. She only has 4 jokers that can be anything that she wants. But she doesn't know what she wants and SHE is going to get tired of these JOKERS an make some decisions. I think that her king or her ace (which ever you want to be) is going to be the card that suits her eventually.<p>Yes I understand that your pain is equal to mine. Your wife is cheating. But in a way, she hasn't found what she is looking for yet. She is testing the water, and making a name for herself. She will realize this before long. Now you know what long means to me. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] But I want you to think about the uniqueness of your situation. She hasn't found 'that soulmate' that ALL of our WS have found yet. She can be pulled back in... maybe not easier, but maybe faster. Yes its been a year. I just crossed my 3 year mark... [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] and I know what those days and the uncaring **** that she puts you through does. <p>Just realize this... THERE ARE DAYS WHEN THERE ARE NO OTHER CARDS IN HER DECK. UNLIKE my wifes deck whose had the same card in it for years. <p>You need to think about focus here and see why she keeps drawing more cards and discarding them. It maybe something so simple. Step back and take a look. Please don't think that I'm trivializing any of this. I'm not. There are pro's and con's to the uniqueness of each of our situations. Lets see if we need to figure out a special Plan A for you. <p>By the way.. (you know me) you have to go through Plan B before you can go through Divorce. I'm gonna make sure ya follow the rules, or I'm on the road with combat boots on [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . And you thought your horse could kick ya hard [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>K?

Hey JD- I wont try to talk you out of it.I wanted to thank you because I have found your posts both insightful and helpful to me. I can tell you have examined your marriage very thoroughly before deciding to take this action. May you eventually find the peace you deserve.And thank goodness there is a divorce support board here right? lifeismessy

((((((((JD)))))))) What a difficult decision to come to. At least you will know in your heart that you did all you could.

JD,<p>Advice? Are you kidding me brother? My advice is not to take mine! <p>I am dealing with basically the same issues as you. Let me tell you this though, you have got a long row to hoe. <p>It has been extremely tough on me in the last few months and when my WS wants to "talk" my heart falls right back into her hands. Then she walks out again and I am standing there heart-broken once again.
I have just started to realize that I can't keep letting her do this to me.( I.E. doing this to myself) In my WS's case I don't think she can help it. There is something emotionally wrong with a serial cheater and we don't have any control over it. They are the only one's that can do anything about theirselves. My WS is looking for something, and continues to looking for something, something that I, oviously can't give her. (If it is a fairy tale that she is looking for then she will go through life very unhappy because she will never find what she is looking for and all the men in her lifetime will pay for it.) The only time she runs back to me is when she is unsure of the relationship that she has with the other men that she has had affairs with. (Stability vs the unknown)<p>What I am getting at is at some point you have to make a personal choice of staying with a person like this just to go back through the heartache again or put a end to it! <p>I chose to end mine for three reasons:
One: She will more than likely do it to me again if she doesn't get help.
Two: She is currently still with the OP.
Three: I don't know if I could treat her the way she deserves to be treated after all of this!<p>
J, this doesn't reflect on you at all, it is just the choice that I had to make to get past the heartache and the pain. Not including the insanity of it all. <p>Do you know that most insane people don't think they are insane? <p>Do you know that my WS thinks that nothing is wrong with the picture she has colored!<p>What is the difference?<p>RN

Hugs 2 YOU!<p>I read H2Y and Roughneck's responses to you and I had such a warm feeling...<p>I know this is hard... but you sure have a couple of nice guys in your corner... there to be there for you...<p>It is nice to know you're not alone, isn't it? ... and have people to keep propping you up?<p>You have my prayers for strength as you make difficult decisions...<p>Cali

JD~<p>Darlin.....{{{{{JD}}}}}!!!!!!<p>Tough decision for you, I know it was. JD, I was a serial cheater. I searched everywhere to fill my needs.....except for the right place. I realized that with each new encounter I felt worse about myself. There has to be breaking point (I hope I hope) for your wife. <p>Even though my affair had already ended by the time I confessed to my husband, I can tell you that when he didn't know if he wanted me anymore, I was slapped in the face with reality and realization. I realized that the love and acceptance I had been desperately searching for was sleeping right there beside me every night. <p>I, too, asked my husband for a seperation....wanted to get a little "living" in before I made a decision to stay married or not. I'm not trying to sway your decision, but I'm telling you what worked for me. When I realized that the ball was no longer in my court, I woke up and I woke up fast.<p>JD, plan A wouldn't have worked for me. Not in the state of mind I was in. Even though my husband didn't know while I was cheating, he knew something was wrong. I got flowers regularly, he cleaned the house, did the laundry, planned special romantic dinners and evenings, bought me a 2 carat diamond ring (we didn't have very much money, but he scraped and scraped). I mean, the guy plan A'ed me to death (although neither of us knew what plan A was). Did I appreciate it? Nope. Did it make me want to stay with him? Nope. It made me feel suffocated. At that time, he was like a gnat buzzing all around me when I wanted the peace and quiet to do my own thing. I didn't want resistance, I wanted acquiescence.<p>Once my husband found out about the affair......he went DIRECTLY to plan B (well, in his own way). Of course we were still together, but I can tell you, once I started DOUBTING him wanting to be with me and once I realized that there was more to our marriage and our relationship than MY needs and MY wants, we did a complete turn around. <p>JD, there are people that plan A just doesn't work. They don't get it because they aren't in a place to get it. Their self-esteem, emotions etc are hindering them......or should I say BLINDING them.<p>You know your limits and you know how much you can take. Your wife is going to have to realize that your love for her is a precious precious gift. She doesn't realize it yet. Your marriage isn't all about your wife.....you matter too.<p>What is the best way for someone to appreciate water? Take it away from them until they are parched and KNOW the value of a drink. I bet then they will be less likely to take water for granted.<p>Your marriage isn't over.....and I agree with the poster who says to not make a decision on emotions. File for divorce if you feel you need to......but I would suggest that you not do the 90 day finalization deal. <p>I am very sad for you today. Hugs and prayers to you. Take care of yourself. If you ever want to talk to me, I'm here.<p>sel<p>P.S. In the end your wife won't be happy with these guys. She doesn't know what the h#ll she wants.<p>[ March 13, 2002: Message edited by: selket ]</p>

Crap. I had a reply to all of you but it didn't go to the thread. I will try to type it again in a bit.<p> Just wanted to let you know that I have read everything so far and will reply.<p> jd

[[[[[[[[[[jd]]]]]]]]]]]]]]<p>hoping you find peace, <p>peace is under rated.

kam6318,<p>Thanks Kathi. I am not sure that one affair is less hard to get over than 4. But perhaps 1 affair can be explained better. With 4 you cross a line into something else I think. But contact is contact whether by the same OP or a new one. Pain for the BS is the same in either case. <p>SinkingFast,<p>No I don't blame you for saying anything. I would have given you the same assumption. And said the same things. Thank you. <p>Actions. That is exactly what it would take. Not words. Believe me I have heard the words so many times I could puke. WS could still can save our marriage but only with real actions. <p>
Husband2you, <p>My old friend. I knew I could count on you to try the voice of reason on me. Thing is I do remember the last time I was ready. You brought me down from that in a hurry. <p>A special Plan A? Well I know my Plan A has not been perfect. But it has been good. Yes I have LBed some. But not as much as I let on. Yes, I have punched some doors. But never laid a hand on her Yes, I wanted to kill the [censored] who had a hand in all this. But I didn't <p>My W wanted to keep doing a lot of the things she was doing that led to the first A. I was the faithful doormat and allowed her to for the most part. <p>I took a backseat to anything she wanted, or wanted to do. Allowed her to blame me, allowed her to be what she wanted and do what ever she wanted in front of the kids. <p>Say whatever....Forgave her time and again for grave mistakes in character. And I am not just talking of the affairs. When she allowed her friends to call the cops on her own children, I was pissed...way pissed, but I got over that. As well as her and those same friends trying to put me in jail. Because I wanted to TALK to my wife.<p>When those same friends moved to our town some months ago and she decided she wanted to go out with them all the time rather than spend time off work with her family, I was the faithful doormat. When she got pissed a few weeks ago and decided to punch the hell out of me leaving bruises on my arms and back, I remained in Plan A and let her punch herself out never once raising a hand to her. <p>I could go on and on. But how much more doormat-ism should I take? <p>She wasn't anything like this before. I take my share of the blame for not meeting her needs. Everything, and I mean everything she said was wrong about me, I changed. I am not the strong confident person I was before H2Y. <p>As for the card talk. The big difference is that I cannot take her going through all the cards in the deck. Just to realize she had an ace all along. I feel less than a doormat already. <p>You know I have this pinpointed to when our troubles started. When she had a complete hysterectomy 6 years ago. She is supposed to be on hormones but she won't take them regularly. I know this is a big part of her mental change. <p>This is one reason I have stood by her through all this. Oh YEAH, they got all the cancerous tissue. But they also got my W. She has never been the same. Only gotten worse. <p>lifeismessy,<p>Thank you for your kind words. I am glad there are a few who found some little help in something I posted. This is the thing that keeps me coming back. And to get the same help from all you. <p>Alberta, <p>Thanks for the hugs. I hope you don't know just how difficult. <p>
Roughneck,<p> I appreciate your advice, though, RN. In a certian sense I can relate to you better than most others on this site. Must be the patch connection [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p> This is/has been the hardest thing for me as well. Even though my W is not living with another man. I have been ready to call it quits several times. Each time she comes to me and begs me to keep trying. Tells me she will try and do things the right way. Each time it has all been a smokescreen. This time is no different. When I told her I wanted a divorce she asked for a separation instead. "To give us some time apart" so that we will both want to try afterwards. <p> The difference is this time I do not want just a separation. If we are to be apart, or she wants to see other men, then to heck with her. I want a divorce. I have been trying everyday for a year. I don't need a separation to "want" to try afterwards.<p> RN, I like your 3 reasons to end the relationship. What they won't understand is the picture they have painted IS wrong colored. My wife continues to say that what she is doing is ok. She is doing nothing wrong. Someone told me that her FOG had turned to MUD. I believe they are correct.<p>
Cali,<p> You cannot truly understand what I think of these two guys, H2Y and RN, I will mention another as well, SEM. Each have propped me up quite a bit. <p> I don't know what it is like for women. But when a guy helps out another guy in trouble, they NEVER forget. They may grow apart, but the bond remains. Very much like brothers. When two men go through the battles together(no matter the battles)they are brothers. <p> OOPS....I better not leave out some of the others. WAT, trueheart, Freddy, Godlyman, Kevco, Boppo, JerryWeatherford, many, many others. Someone is gonna be upset with me now....darn it [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>
SEL,<p> What you have written to me is a gift. Your post probably best reflects how I feel about this whole situation. I have seen that my Plan A has worked on me, but not on my WS. This is the true reason for Plan A. Myself. Of course ALL of us BS want it to work on our WS. We all ‘should' know it may not.<p> I very much appreciate your post to me. I may take you up on your offer to talk to you. Well, I really already have, haven't I. But I do mean about myself [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] Thank you.<p> Sing,<p> Thank you and I agree. Peace is under rated. Hope you feel better about YS B-Day.<p> Thanks to each of you who replied. You have all cheered me a great deal.<p> jd

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by jdmac1:
<strong>
Actions. That is exactly what it would take. Not words. Believe me I have heard the words so many times I could puke. WS could still can save our marriage but only with real actions.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>jd---<p>You got that right...I was thinking exactly the same thing about my situation last night....<p>Hang in there bud....this is tough, I know.<p>E

JD, <p>OK, I read your responses and I would like to choke your WS. Would you mind? I have a real problem with women who think they can punch on a man because he is not supposed to hit her back. I am sorry that you had to go through that. You do not deserve that or anything else she has put you through. I really hope that was an isolated incident and that it has not happened before or since. <p>OK, now that I have said my peace about that, I am glad to hear that the door is not completely closed unless the response to my last statement above was that it was not the only time. You are completely right. ACTIONS are the only allowed response from her. She has a lot to show you at this point, but please continue to look for the signs that she is coming around. <p>I am sorry, but I am the forever hopeful one. I will still be praying for you and your family.<p>Hugs to you.
Sinking

I know your a big strong guy, have horsies and live in Oklahoma, but I'm extending an arm covered in a tattoo or two, with a tear in my eye. I'm giving you the biggest brotherly hug you can ever imagine. <p>I'm here for you if you need to talk. <p>~ K