LHS,<p>I don't know what state you live in, but you mentioned that one of your children was 12 and I believe at least one is older. If that is so, then they often get to make the choice of where they live.<p>I am puzzled that your separation agreement would supercede the children's choice. Keep the documents, talk with lawyer before seeing the counselor. Have him/her tell you whether the counselor is the place to show what you have saved. It might be better used in court fighting for custody.<p>LHS, go into all meetings with your W armed to the teeth. This is a for real situation and romantic ideas won't fly. Play to win and nothing less will help your children.<p>Pay attention LHS, you can win this but you cannot give your W a single break now. Your children's future is at stake.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

JL-<p>I hear exactly what you are saying. I was a little reluctant to call the atty, didnt want to do anything to hurt WS anymore than she already is (thats becasue I still love her and want to protect her) But then I realized that this is not the same woman I married and loved all these years, this is a stranger in my eyes. I dont know if she is a stranger becasue of the A or if she really has changed, I dont know, but what I do know is that MY KIDS are hurting and I do not think they are in the best possible environment.<p>These counselling sessions are going to be interesting to say the least. As long as neither one of us tries to influence the kids, I firmly believe that something is going to happen. These kids have a lot of pent up emotions in them, I think WS is going to see a side of herself that she has never seen before, and it is going to come right from her kids mouths.<p>I pray that W sees the magnitude of what she has done and takes the appropriate steps necessary to get these kids emotionally healthy. I was thinking today that what the kids are going through right now, WS basically went through when she was thier age. Scary how that repeats itself, even D-2 told me last night that she is scared that she will do the same thing to her kids. Everything that WS has done goes against the values our kids have been taught and were expected to follow, what are they supposed to think now, 'do it if it makes you feel good'<p>Now that the oldest 2 are becoming teenagers, I shudder to think whatt may happen becasue of this.

LHS,<p>My short answer to you is: NOT MUCH IF YOU RAISE THEM. If your W does, then all bets are off.<p>You are seeing the fact that one of your W's parents didn't step in and stop this nonsense. That would be you, LHS. Your marriage is not worth your children's happiness. Sounds obvious doesn't it??? Well, it is not obvious to your W.<p>That is my point. Buddy, this is war and you need to do what you can to help your children. There may come a time when your W has figured life out, and could be a good mother, but that time is not NOW.<p>See, that lawyer again, and this time don't take no for an answer. You need to do all you can to help your children, and in my mind that means you get to raise them, no matter how hard that is on you.<p>Go for it LHS, and be absolutely RELENTLESS.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

JL-<p>I think that is something that has thrown W for a loop, the fact that I am standing up for myself and am not allowing my self to be walked all over. I used to be a yes-dear, peace-maker, conflict-avoider kinda guy. There were times when W would us that to her advantage. But now, she is realizing that I wont back down and I think that is where her angry outbursts come from. Seems like everytime I tell her 'this is the way its gonna be and I aint taking no for an answer', she goes off the deep end.<p>My complete change in back-boneness has really thrown some wrenches into her plans. Hey, if it aint worth fighting for, it aint worth having. Maybe thats why OM is beginning to retreat a little. Besides, I think he has his hands full as it is with his W, I know she is real tough, I wouldnt want to mess with her! (and shes a hottie too, whats with this guy?)

LHS,<p>By golly I think you've got it. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] It is time to stand up for the important stuff and be relentless about it. It may even save your marriage, but it for sure will help your children.<p>There is a term in football for a real tough guy who may not be as talented as some,but just doesn't back down. He is refered to as an "all day sucker". Meaning you got him in your face all day no matter what happens.<p>I think you need to become an "all day sucker" with regard to your children and your W. You may win or you may lose, but you should fight for your children till the end.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

"Then, she says that if she has to make this sacrifice for them, she would appreciate it if I wouldn't bad mouth her or OM. SACRIFICE? I didn't know that the kids happiness was considered a sacrifice, at least I didn't think of it that way."<p>Imagine the mother who slipped the tiny bundle of a baby through a crack in the floor of a boxcar - hoping that someone, ANYONE, will be merciful and take it in and raise it, while she goes to the death camps.<p>The parents who sent their children away during WWII, so that the children could simply live, and knowing that they themselves would not. <p>Parents who hand their children out of a burning building to rescuers, who shield their children from harm using their own bodies, THEY sacrifice.<p>Undocumented workers, sharing crowded rooms in the barrio to save on rent, and working long hours for families in the U.S., so that they can send their money home for their children. THEY sacrifice. What they wouldn't give to have their children with them every day and see them grow and change.<p>Parents whose children have been missing, or kidnapped by non-custodial parents - what wouldn't they give to be in the same room with their children once again. Even for 30 minutes. They would give up years of their lives for the privilege. I bet some would agree to amputation of a limb, loss of an eye, if it meant they could see their children alive and well. THEY are willing to sacrifice.<p>Serious fog around your WS. Not seeing the OM so that she can concentrate on the kids is not a sacrifice. It's a privilege.<p>I look forward every day to seeing our S after school. Watching him and the child who carpools with us jockey for position in the front seat and tease each other. Hearing about his day, fixing him a snack. Bringing home him and his friends on Friday afternoon, listening to them play their noisy games, watching them banging around in the kitchen where they make homemade applesauce, potato pancakes, any darn thing they please. They are the precious ones. <p>A slug willing to horn in on a married person's time is just garbage. <p>Can you retrieve the letter? You may need it in the custody battle.