Tears, <p>It takes much more than this post to 'ruin' my day. You are certainly welcome to post here. Remember that everyone here is entitled to an opinion/thought or concern. We don't always have to agree or eve like each other, just treat each other with respect. <p>By the way, you are the first one here with this reaction. Many come here with hurt and pain. At times they even feel attacked here. But after a while you get to realize that we are all here to learn and heal. We all learn at different levels. <p>So if you want to get the most benefit from MB and the support here, don't be afraid to voice your opinion. Read up on that book I mentioned then let us know what you think about it. Howz that for starters?!?!!? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Take Care,
L.

Tears,<p>I like your name! I wanted to say that before, but wanted to get to the point before I forgot it.<p>I've been there too, and I want to tell you what I did. I worked with this guy D. He became engaged after I started working with him, after I developed a crush. He was smart, funny, cute. Me too. And we had a lot of fun together. He got married. I started letting go of my crush (really started when they were engaged), because he was off-limits. Now, we were just friends, having a great time. He was married and things began to get rocky for him. So one day, he looks at me and says, "I think I may have married the wrong person." [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] (we need a red flag icon) I didn't know if he thought the right person for him was standing there or what. I stammered. My mind raced. I said, "Well, did you pray about it?" He said, "Yeah." I said, "Did you pray without saying 'God your will be done, (but I really want to marry M)'?" He said, "I prayed like that, "Your will, but really I want to marry M." I was looking desperately for a way out. I said, "Well, I don't think God would let you marry the wrong person. Even if you did pray like that, you honored Him." [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] That ended it. I don't know if he had mutual feelings for me or not. But, I wasn't taking the chance that he was just confiding or telling me something more. Plus, I firmly believe that men and women shouldn't be each other's confidants. Well, turns out, she left him out of the blue, but they did last about 5 years after that. I've been married 6 now. <p>What do you think Tears? Do we keep hammering you, or are you still firm, are you getting discouraged here? We do want you to be here. I was just sharing my tidbit. I hope it helps.<p>Hoping

Tears,
If you have a question, post it. If you, as you said had, a long-term bad relationship and are looking for how to make a better relationship, then these answers are helpful.<p>A relationship with a married man is not a step in your self-interest. It's the first unwise decision on a long rocky path.<p>You are speaking to people of experience, and whether it was NewBeginning or Orchid you were deriding, I personally (a very oldtimer) would read either of their opinions on anything with respect. They are women who have been through very bad times and have gained wisdom through the pain. It's possible I wouldn't agree or follow through with their advice, but I'd certainly think about what they said because I know they know some stuff.<p>This is marriage builders, you aren't helping build your best friends marrige, you are hurting it, otherwise the wife wouldn't hate you. You've done something in her eyes to cross the line, or her H has. That's truth. Maybe she's a bwitch out of hell, but he's still married to her. And if she isn't, your "friendship" is hurting her, who HATES someone who they feel has done nothing to them?<p>My H's former OW was his good friend and co-worker and pool team player, and while we were separated I made a male friend of my own...neither of those people--kind, fun, passionate--as they were have any place in our lives if our marriage is going to be recovered.<p>You say you haven't done anything wrong. I disagree, you are stealing that man's time, his conversation, his attention, and his hugs from his wife. And, soon, you'll be having drinks or supper and golly, you'll be swept away and never "have seen it coming." <p>Well here's your wake-up call.<p>Glad you stopped in. Please stay, especially if you don't understand a thing I'm saying and think I am completely wrong.

Hi Tears,<p>I have to believe that if you felt your "Friendship" with this MM was perfectly fine and above board, you wouldn't be here asking us if it was.<p>Jo

Resilient, this is just a correction. She didn't ask. She posted a reply to someone about her own experience with her married friend. Just thought I'd point that out.<p>Hoping

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by hoping4future:
Resilient, this is just a correction. She didn't ask. She posted a reply to someone about her own experience with her married friend. Just thought I'd point that out.<p>Hoping<hr></blockquote><p>Well thanks H4F,<p>But I still have to ask, why is she "lurking" here then? Is she trying to rebuild her marriage? Or is she married?<p>Jo<p>[ March 19, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted my tearsquit:
I came here to learn about what happened to my 13 year relationship w/ a man who did not married me and we had 2 kids. I just want to be a good partner next time, thats all. <hr></blockquote><p>How's this? It's on page 1 along with a link to her first post.<p>Tearsquit, are you still with us?<p>Hoping

Okay, thanks again H4F.<p>I think Tears has decided not to post anymore. Perhaps she's just lurking now. <p>Jo

hoping4future- thanks, I needed that. I feel better now. I was not going to post again but I feel I better. I did reply to something I saw that pertained to me. Let me get this straight, I do have a male friend. We DO NOT date, we DO NOT go for walks in the park, we DO NO have lunch or anything else. He knows I go through tough times w/ 2 kids on my own and checks in from time. I do not mind. We don't see each other on a daily basis or weekly basis. He is my friend. And thats it. My ex (5 yrs now) treats me like I owe him. Hell he owes me he doesn't even pay child support. Then today called and asked if I'd marry him. No I am not having an affair nor do I wish to. Just want somebody to treat me like a person.

Dear Tearsquit,
I think you would find some friends here if you would just keep posting - you sound like you've been thru a tough time in your relationship and are trying to find some answers. One of the things we all have to ask ourselves is, regardless of how abusive or irrational or difficult our partner is, how can we take care of ourselves. By us learning how to take care of ourselves better, we grow - to really grow, we have all had to ask ourselves hard questions - I consider my H to be very difficult - psychologically abusive, on the verge of being physically abusive - but in trying to stand up to him, I also used to get angry - scream and shout and call him names out of sheer frustration - this kind of behaviour just gives an abuser a club to beat you with - a couple of years ago, I realized this was getting me nowhere, so I stopped. Now its more subtle - but I'm working on learning how to confront him more constructively - I don't have to take it - I can stay or go - if I stay, I do everything I can to stay rational - my rule is if I start to lose my cool, I leave the room. What I'm saying to you is try to figure out how you can be a better person and get rid of the stuff you don't like about yourself - sometimes when you're in a bad relationship, it brings out the worst in you, and you end up hating yourself as much as them. You CAN break this cycle by choosing to be the kind of person YOU want to be, regardless of what he does.<p>If you've been in an abusive relationship, and you're lonely, you have looked for support outside your marriage - you seem to have found a 'friend' whose a married man - maybe because he's married, he seems 'safe' to you.<p>What people here are trying to tell you is that what seems safe to you isn't safe. You need to ask yourself if his W knows about you, and if she does, how does she feel about you? if you really consider yourself to be this man's friend, his W feelings should be top of the list of your priorities. If his W doesn't know about you, or isn't aware of how close you are as friends, then ask yourself why? Hasn't he told her? What has HE got to hide?<p>This is exactly what has just happened to me. My wonderful, faithful H, it turns out, has made TWO such "just friends" in the past year. The first, I figured out - she was someone he worked with and saw once a week and then did some professional work with - should have been no reason to maintain contact - but he didn't drop contact - what was an ordinary pleasant friendship became a BIG NEED for him - he HAD to see her, he HAD to talk to her, he LIVED for the phone conversations he had with her. Meanwhile, his emotional relationship with me dwindled - he became angry all the time, woke up miserable, shouted at the kids - the only time he came home happy was when he had seen her - our M fell apart - married people have ordinary problems and life with kids ain't easy, as you know - but when a man has the perfect "friend" who will listen to him for hours without saying "hold it right there, I've got to wipe no. 2's bottom", what does he need a wife for? Well, the wife does the cooking, cleaning, babysitting, probably works and brings home half the pay, and gives him sex until she finds out his head and heart are somewhere else. Then the S*** hits the fan and he can't figure out what he did wrong - but we're 'just friends'!<p>My H did this once - after 6 months all he had to say to me was "my feelings for you have withered and I'm only staying b/c I don't want to cause any upheaval to the children". Two years ago I had a H who told me I was essential to him and he couldn't have done anything he has accomplished without my support? What happened. "Just friends".<p>So I worked on my M. I thought we'd come a long way. Then in Feb, I find out he has another "friend" - this is a girl he has been seeing once a week for months - they talk - you can read my thread starting on JFO. I went haywire. Not only did I not know about this girl, but he had a private e-mail a/c and he's exchanging e-mails every day - they have pet names, etc. the whole shebang - he says things like "I'll be thinking about you tomorrow", etc - "TXT msged you 3 times today, so why am I writing you again before I go to bed?" She e-mails him as soon as she wakes up. You know, I think, "just friends", give me a BREAK. But they are. She has a boyfriend - she's on a course, far from home and misses her boyfriend. She talks about her BF to my H - you know what he says to her about me? That I'm a sick person. Honey, who's the liar here? Him or me? <p>My point is - if we had problems, why didn't he have the decency to try to work things out with me? Never did. Just went off the deep-end once he found out he could have "just friends". Now he's fighting with me - he has exploded at me 3 times, hitting everything around me except me, he's put our 6 yr old through Hell - the son he claims to love so much and spend so much time talking about to his 'friend'. <p>Basically, she was lonely, and has filled her ENs by cozying up to someone else's H - what she doesn't see is the effect it has on his life inside the walls of his home - she said to me "But I didn't even know you were in a crisis" - well - no, I don't blame her - it's my H I blame for being so weak and disloyal that he went behind my back - but once she DID know we were in crisis - did she back off? No. She comes on to him just as strong as ever - flirts just as hard - invites him out to coffee - makes excuses to see him "just one more time" - is this "just friends"? This kind of 'just friends" wrecks lives - my sons lives to be specific, who used to have a father they could look up to, but who have now witnessed their father calling me every name in the book, just b/c I had the gall to confront him about his secret "friend". <p>You're confused. No-one here is going to blame you for that. You've had a bad time in your relationship and are looking for some answers. I would say - find a woman friend - back off from your married friend - if he asks you what's wrong, say you have respect for his wife and don't want to hurt her feelings - be VERY wary of his response - if you want honest support, you will find it here, but you'll have to be honest with yourself. Ask yourself if you'd like being in her shoes. If the answer is no, then there IS something not right about your friendship with this man.
Take care,
Odile