I am somewhat fortunate that I found out about my h's brief affair. It has made me look at issues that I thought were perhaps fine, and some of my own behavior that was a contributing (not cause) factor. So I'm glad to know if it will eventually cause us to have a stronger,healthier, more real bond.
>
His ow works at the same company, although in a different building. That does bug me. And for awhile I had a fit about the cell calls and
beeper calls that she would claim to be about business, when my husband said she clearly didn't have to be calling. After a few times of telling her that if she did not stop, I would call her husband- she finally got it when my h had to get nasty with her. She has not called/beeped since (he knows I check his cell phone and beeper )
unless she is using the office phone. I believe that their if over, and his behavior is that it is over. He is doing everything he can to
> bring me comfort, and security.
>
I was not happy with her last response though. She told me "it was no big deal". She also said that she will not tell her H as 1) their
marriage is "Fine" and 2) she will not give up what she has. I'm concerned that all long as she thinks "it's no big deal" that she may try again. My h says she was very upset that he did not want to see her again. She told me that her h is gone from home most of the time and she is very lonely. I also feel bad for him that her behavior is putting him at risk and that he doesn't stand a chance to improve their marriage if he doesn't know.
>
But do I have any right to say anything to him? So many people say they would want to know, but then I most assuridly know how painful it can be to know. Is my desire to tell vindictive? (yes, only I can really know what's in my heart!) Or is the thing to do to protect my marriage at all costs? Also, applying the Policy of Joint Agreement (which I'm still learning) I would say that my h does not want me tell. He apologizes for the pain that that causes me, but he says
that he is responsible for hurting so many people already and to hurt the ow's spouse and their kids wouldn't help us. <p>> Elise

Most will advise you not to tell - that it is none of your business what goes on in their marriage, but I see if differently.<p>If the OM's wife had told me when she knew, it would have saved our marriage SOO MUCH damage. His wife knew about it for six months prior. In the end, the affair restarted and I had to learn of it by catching the two of them together.<p>Ask yourself, if you were the spouse that was in the dark, would you want someone to tell you? You don't tell the spouse to hurt them or the OP, you tell them because it is what you would want someone to do for you.<p>[ March 22, 2002: Message edited by: Mr. Bunky ]</p>

I agree with what Mr Bunky said, except for the part where he said most would tell you NOT to tell. Not around here anyway, we know better. The fact is that information that the OP's H has a right to know is being wrongly withheld from him. This is information about his life in which he has a RIGHT TO KNOW. One does not have the right to the privacy to destroy thier spouse. <p>You would be doing him a kindness by telling him what his spouse has been doing to him behind his back. Just think of it this way, if you knew that someone was being robbed by their CPA wouldn't you feel you had a moral obligation to tell them? It is the same principle. Please do the right thing and tell the OP spouse.

Hi Elise,<p>I agree 100% with Melody, the OP's BS should be told. <p>I know as a BS myself, if someone had told me early on, things between OW and my H wouldn't have progressed as far as they had. I could have started Plan A so much sooner and PERHAPS saved my marriage. You never know.<p>Plus, to reiterate what Melody was saying, the BS has a right to know. With the WS keeping the truth from them is not allowing them to make decisions regarding their marriage, whereas the WS holds all the cards. <p>If you're struggling with the logistics of "how" to tell, I say send an anonymous letter within the SAA book. Knowing the OP will probably refute the discovery by their spouse, it would be important to add solid evidence (dates / times / places) within the content of your letter.<p>Be as kind and gentle as possible when writing this to them, but stay completely anonymous.<p>JMVHO ....<p>Jo

I agree with the telling of the A to the OP's S. However, to add another slight twist to it: remember, that should you tell, you need to leave it at that.<p>The reaction you get from OW's H may be opposite of what you expect. You should prepare yourself for ALL reactions, especially denial.<p>I say that, because in my situation, I told the OW's H, as they were friends with both my H and I. However, he didn't believe me. His W had convinced him that the 'proof' I had (lovey dovey emails) were just a joke on me, to teach me not to snoop in H's email. Nice, huh? It's been really hard to focus on the fact that I told him, and HE CHOSE to do NOTHING about it. <p>Let us know how and what you decide to do. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Karen

Elise,<p>I will put a different twist on this, if you don't mind. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>The OW's spouse should be told, but it shouldn't come from you without first making sure that your husband is in agreement with it. The Policy of Joint Agreement is made for situations like this - never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement from both spouses. Even though your husband violated it by having an affair, it does not automatically give you the right to throw it out the window either. It's up to you to demonstrate that you have developed the correct skills and behaviors to become an excellent wife for him. Following the POJA helps make that happen. Once you do that, then your marriage has a chance at true recovery. <p>Who should tell the OW's husband? His wife, of course! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Though that appears unlikely to happen any time soon, you need to think about your marriage - not theirs.<p>Continue to work on your marital skills, and encourage your husband to do the same, and you will continue to build a stronger and stronger marriage.<p>That's what you really want anyway...isn't it? [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>-HD

Boy, this is a tough one. In my counseling support group, our MC said that God hates adultery so much that he would want us to tell. Is there a way to do it anonymously? Or maybe that's not a good idea. Yes, I would definitely want to know. It was so much worse finding out the truth 6 years later. You feel like everything that's taken place in those years is a big fat lie. <p>Maybe you can convince your H that if the A is not disclosed, she's likely to do it again (that's true, it's mentioned in Torn Asunder). Good luck, I feel for you.

So you want revenge. What other purpose does telling her husband serve? Will it actually help your marriage when your husband is against it?
I will never understand this telling the whole world and I was also a bs. Don't worry about fixing the other couple, work on your own marriage, work on why your husband had an affair in the first place.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by OnlyHuman:
<strong>So you want revenge. What other purpose does telling her husband serve? Will it actually help your marriage when your husband is against it?
.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>It might not help her marriage, but that is not the point. The point is that it is the right thing to do. It is the humane and decent thing to do. It is a kindness and a servicde to another human being. THAT is the purpose it serves. All purposes do not have to be in only our own interest for them to be valid. <p>Sometimes the world does not revolve completely around us and we have to reach out and help other people even when it doesn't "benefit" us. <p>I would tell the OP spouse even if my WS did not want me to - most wouldn't want you to anyway. And the reason is because I think it is a moral obligation to do so and my selfish interests do not supercede my moral obligations. The WS's discomfort does not supercede the OP spouse's desperate need and right to know that his life is being tampered with behind his back.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by MelodyLane:
<strong><p>It might not help her marriage, but that is not the point. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Unfortunately, Melody, that's EXACTLY the point. Elise came here seeking answers on how to better her marriage - and unless her husband agrees to it, she would be doing more harm than good. What good would it do to help another marriage when her's could go down the tubes? <p>While it may be a moral obligation to inform someone who may be in the dark about their spouse, she has a greater moral obligation to save her marriage and make it better (if, in fact, that's what she wants to do). Going against the wishes of your spouse is in direct violation of the principles of this site. If she engages in that behavior, then where does it lead? Where does it end?<p>How could she expect and want her husband to show her the same concern when she is unwilling to do it herself?<p>Believe me. I respect your opinion, and I do agree that the OP's spouse should know...but you simply can't violate the POJA to do it.<p>Sometimes you just can't save the world.<p>-HD<p>[ March 22, 2002: Message edited by: HurtingDeeply ]</p>

Melodylane,
you say it might not help her marriage but that
is not the point?????
Now that really makes sense.
I say when you do that, you do have your own selfish interests at heart. Just my opinion, she doesn't have to follow it.

Sorry guys, but I don't agree. If I thought that telling the OP spouse would cause that big of a problem then I might send an anonymous letter, however, that doesn't absolve me of my responsibility to give the OP spouse information that is being wrongfully withheld from him. <p>I don't imagine that there are many WS out there who would want to face the potential consequences of the OP spouse finding out. I don't think their fear of consequences absolves me in any way of my obligation to give the OP spouse information about HIS life that is being wrongfully withheld from him.<p>I think that principle takes precedence over my own selfish interests. I wouldn't sacrifice principle for the sake of my marriage.

I agree 100% with HD. Although I think the spouse SHOULD be told, it should NOT be to the detriment of YOUR OWN MARRIAGE.<p>POJA. It works.

What if the OP has convinced their spouse that nothing is going on, that they aren't having an A with your spouse. The problem is the OP will continue to do what they want with your WS because there is no pressure from their family to stop what they are doing. The OP is obstructing any chance of reconciliation in your marriage if they are still in contact with your WS.<p>My boss is having A with my wife. I told his wife but he told her that it was nothing and their phone calls had stopped long ago. I have proof through phone bills and emails that he is a lying, cheating, sob. I don't know if my marriage can be saved or not, but by telling OP's spouse that the A is still alive might allow my WW to start looking at her own life without the fog.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> and I do agree that the OP's spouse should know...but you simply can't violate the POJA to do it. <hr></blockquote>
HD,
Well, I'm definitely with Melody on this. I think this is one of those times where principles can be in conflict with one another. Rather than the POJA, I think here of the rules of honesty, and of protection. <p>I think Elise chances of suffering through a resumption of the A will be cut in half if the OW H knows. Her H still works with the OW. <p>I just don't see how you can apply the POJA to something so directly tied to the betrayal. The POJA is great once you are both on the same page in regards to the affair. To suggest that the POJA means the BS should be dishonest, and in effect keep the A alive at least in the OP's marriage, is wrong IMO.<p>I'm sure once all this affair garbage he created plays itself out Elise's H will see the wisdom of telling. That's how it worked in my and PJs recovery. Frankly, I think if a WS is against telling the truth, I'd question their ability to live up to their end of the POJA anyway.
David

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Davidb:
<strong>
HD,
Well, I'm definitely with Melody on this. I think this is one of those times where principles can be in conflict with one another. Rather than the POJA, I think here of the rules of honesty, and of protection. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Honesty and protection of who? <p>See, she could push her H away by going against his wishes to tell. If the marriage is OVER, yeah, go ahead and tell no matter what he says, but if the marriage is to survive, he (as in her H) needs to believe that she will protect THEIR MARRIAGE by treating the POJA with respect.

Hey David.<p>I know what you're saying. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I think you and PJ suffered through a much different experience than Elise. But I understand where you're coming from. <p>According to Elise's post, the affair is over and her husband has committed himself to recovery. If the affair was still alive and well, then that would be a different thing. Harley's rules on Honesty and Protection apply to her marriage, not anyone else's, and right now she seems to be concerned about what to do to strengthen her marriage. Is she being dishonest about not telling? She's being dishonest to a woman she might have never met. However it matters who you are honest with and who you are not. It matters where your loyalties lie.<p>I'm just offering advice because her situation seems similar to mine. My wife still works with the OM, but the affair is over, and we are working on a strong recovery. I wanted desperately to tell the OM's wife about what happened (who wouldn't), but my wife didn't want me to. She cited all the usual reasons, but the bottom line was that I could not get her to enthusiastically agree for me to do it. I wanted to save my marriage. I wanted my wife to fall back in love with me, and I didn't want to do anything that would cause her to go back to him.<p>If I would have gone against her wishes and told his wife, then she would have seen that as an example that I was taking action without taking her feelings into account. Yes, she did the same thing by having an affair, but two wrongs don't make a right. Betrayal is betrayal. You don't win back the love of someone by doing that, and that's what I wanted to do. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>We did negotiate a solution. She agreed that we would let the OM know that I found out about the affair, and that if there was ever a resumption of it then I would tell her. Otherwise, I would keep my mouth shut. It scared him off, and he has stayed away from her.<p>So, you see, we compromised. We used the POJA to brainstorm a solution that we could both live with. She appreciated me taking her feelings into account, and I appreciated her for doing the same. By doing so I achieved my overall objective - to deposit Love Units in her Love Bank, and help her see that I could become the husband she always wanted. <p>That's all I'm trying to say here. <p>We can always question the motives of a WS - especially when we are thrown into the situation of them betraying us. Fortunately for my wife, some of her reasons were quite complelling:<p>Nobody in the office (outside of those two) knows of the affair. If I told his wife, we could not predict her reaction. Would she have stormed into the office in a rage and created a scene in front of everyone? Would she have tried to kill or harm my wife? Would the OM try to harm me for "ruining" his marriage? If I blew their marriage apart would that leave him free to continue to persue my wife? If it got out in the open would she have lost her job? Lots of unpredictable things could happen. I don't know her or him.<p>Now obviously, those two should have thought of this before getting involved (and I let my wife know this too - I'm not perfect! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ), but the fact is that they didn't think of the potential consequences. They were in the fog. THEY JUST DID IT!<p>Not all situations are the same, and I think if the affair were to have continued I may have followed a different course. But, if you are in a "Plan A" situation it means you are trying to demonstrate to your spouse that you can be the husband or wife that they always wanted. It means you must give your "taker" a rest for a while and concentrate on "giving." It's a lousy deal, but it also offers the best chance at recovery.<p>That's all I'm trying to offer Elise - the best chance at recovery based on the situation she is currently in. The closer she can become to her husband (and vice-versa), the better the both of them will be.<p>I know people here will disagree, but it's just my humble opinion. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>-HD<p>[ March 22, 2002: Message edited by: HurtingDeeply ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I know people here will disagree, but it's just my humble opinion. <hr></blockquote>
HD,
Wow, what a great reply. I was about to toss of a quick quip to Sheryl, but I'm glad I didn't . Would of looked kinda dumb after your thorough appraisal.<p>It sounds as if you do understand where I'm coming from and after reading your post I understand a little more too. I've said it before, I don't think any of us chose the path we've had to walk out of this mess. I really do appreciate your help of someone who is walking down a similar path.<p>David

You can still throw a quip or two at me David [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] , it's okay...

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>You can still throw a quip or two at me David , it's okay... <hr></blockquote>
Nah, you two have thoroghly ganged up on me [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>You know though, HDs use of the POJA answers my concerns because it's a true joint agreement - not the BS caving. HD telling the OM he will tell his W if there is any hint of further contact is brilliant really, because he took back some of his self-esteem, while still protecting his Ws feelings.
David