Thanks for all the replies. I guess each marriage does have times of ups and downs. In all honesty pre-A I never worried too much about it. <p>NOW I have this burning desire to say "yeah right, well you sure didn't seem to have that problem with her" Yikes, a definite LB I know. Then I would be dealing with a H who felt inadequate and lord knows what that might cause him to do.<p>Thanks again everybody for the info, I will get that book.

This is an exercise from the book, [i]After the Affair[i].<p>You and your spouse take a seperate piece of paper and answer the following questions:<p>How often would you ideally like to have sex (best case scenario).<p>How often do you think your spouse would ideally like to have sex.<p>What frequency would you be willing to settle for sex (this means, what is the lowest frequency you would be comfortable with having sex).<p>What frequency do you think your spouse would willing to settle for sex.<p>Answer these in whatever ratio you like ( per day, per week, per month, x number every x days, ec.).<p>Now compare answers. What you typically will find is that what you want and what you are willing to settle for overlaps with your spouse. It was that way with my wife and I; and in our case, we agreed to have it more often that I expected.<p>POJA, folks. Also, part of the agreement is that each partner is responsible for intiating ever other time.

We are at about 3 or 4 times a week and my husband still thinks there is something wrong with me.

Quick addendum. My wife and I did this last night and we agreed to once every 4-5 days. She initiates every other time (she is encouraged to make it special - clothing, etc.). When it is my turn, if she is not interested for whatever reason, it then becomes her responsibility to let me know when she is ready - it whatever manner she likes. No more than ever third time that it is my turn to initiate, she can, instead of turning me down, can instead provide SF by other means than intercourse.<p>The key is that we both have to approach it with love and enthusiasm for the other person.<p>We also now have sex more often than we did prior to the A.<p>What they say is true; that you marriage can be better than it ever was to begin with.<p>As much as I hate what happened to me and my marriage, as much as I think that so much of this was not necessary for my wife and I to change our ways, I have to keep coming back to my belief in lachrymology.<p>Lachrymology is the evolution of oneself through emotional and physical pain. The idea is not to inflict pain on yourself, but to learn and grow from the pain that has been inflicted upon you.<p>http://www.elkvalley.net/book/CretinLachrymology.htm

Hey bunky that sounds great, How do you keep it from seeming like unromantic record keeping? Your turn..kind of thing.

Honestly, I thought of it the same way at first but I changed my mind.<p>I asked myself, why do I have a preconceived notion as to how a relationship should work? What images and examples have I had in my life to make me think how a relationship should work and how it should not. What I concluded was that I have not had ANY good examples of relationships. That every example I have seen is one of conflict, conflict avoidance, or hollywood fantasy.<p>In the end, I concluded that nothing is wrong with with "record keeping." It is only unromantic if you have a preconceived notion that it is such (and you are unwilling to get rid of it). Couples often schedule nearly everything else in their life. If your relationship is what is most important, why not schedule time for it as well?<p>We also will be keeping track of all the times we meet a desire/need of our partner. We are going to develop a chart (taken from After the Affair) so we each can keep track of just how much we are doing for the other. All too often, couples will focus on the negative so much that they will ignore or not even acknowledge the positive. Instead, we will be keeping track of the positive so we KNOW that we are doing the right thing as well as knowing that our partner is as well.<p>Perhaps in time, all of this will become so second nature (the creation of habits and instincts) that we will no longer need to keep track. Right now, we are trying to teach and help each other to be loving. Very hard to do such with no road map on your recovery.

Very very awesome concepts Mr Bunky!
want to be our MC? heheh<p>-HI

Yep. I'm still reading Passionate Marriage, and it's mostly been an affirmation of that part of our M. We fit into the category Schnarch calls "the Blessed Few" in that a lot of the things he details in the book are been there-done thats for us. But I'm still getting a lot out of the book because it is showing me how special this part of my R with my H is. I just assumed the way it was with us is the way it is with most people. According to Schnarch, we are very far along in our sexual development as a couple--practically no barriers to intimacy at all.<p>It was several years ago that his book, The Sexual Crucible, was recommended to me by a therapist friend of mine, and while we were riding in the car, she was playing one of Schnarch's tapes. He was talking about eyes-open sex and looking into each other's eyes while orgasming, and it was clear that he and the audience considered this a novel and uncomfortable concept. I turned to my friend and told her we've always done that. That was my first clue that we had something special. I didn't realize it was such an unusual thing.<p>Definitely a great book. His sexual crucible approach is a combination of marital and sex therapy because they are intertwined. And the crucible is an analogy for that lachrymology Bunky mentioned. Schnarch refers to marriage as the cradle of adulthood and that the very purpose of M is to provide the conflicts necessary for growth and reaching our greatest potential for self-validated intimacy.<p>I'm still working on the emotional stuff and my differentiation, but I can tell you for sure that the sexual stuff ROCKS.<p>Anyway, to answer the question, we were probably in the 2-3 times a week range pre-A when we were pretty withdrawn from each other. Then no sex for several months as soon as I suspected an A. Since D-day it's been every day with an occasional skipped day every once in awhile. Menstruation doesn't interfere. Showers can be utilized, or non-intercourse methods.<p>I second Cali on the morning suggestion. Pretty much any breathing male without a medical condition preventing it will have an erection sometime during sleep. Even if it's not there when you have the time available, you can probably make it happen, and I'm pretty sure any man would enjoy waking up that way. I sure haven't had any complaints. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Another book with some great suggestions is Light His Fire. She's pretty creative and imaginative.