Space - what fantastic news!<p>I toldya Steve knows what he's doing! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Just one tiny word of caution - don't make any requests from your wife for no contact or access to her "stuff".<p>Let Steve do it - trust me, it will be so much better when Steve makes what is a selfish demand coming from you. If your wife really means what she said (and its the non-foggiest WS speech I've heard in a while) then all that stuff will come as she learns - at her pace and on her timeline, not yours.<p>Let Steve be the bad guy - you'll both be much happier that way.

GREAT!<p>I'll tell ya SC,<p>I have been affected by a lot of things in my life emotionally, but I can honestly say that this has affected me probably more so than anything. It may seem strange, but I can picture that in my mind ever so easily, and I have never cried (joyously) so much in my life for another strangers situation. I can only hope and pray that my WW will come around out of the fog just a little.<p>I can, for the first time, see what it feels like when some of the older posters on this board say they feel what we are going through. I know now they REALLY can...<p>Keep the Faith! And I'll even give you a little of mine if you need it.......<p>hcii

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BrambleRose:
<strong>Space - what fantastic news!<p>I toldya Steve knows what he's doing! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Just one tiny word of caution - don't make any requests from your wife for no contact or access to her "stuff".<p>Let Steve do it - trust me, it will be so much better when Steve makes what is a selfish demand coming from you. If your wife really means what she said (and its the non-foggiest WS speech I've heard in a while) then all that stuff will come as she learns - at her pace and on her timeline, not yours.<p>Let Steve be the bad guy - you'll both be much happier that way.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Thank you BR; I know I must temper my expectations and take the next steps very slowly...see I AM learning!<p>We have a session w/Steve next week, and I'll let him know about this before then, and see what he wants to do next. No question his guidance has been invaluable...I did not expect some of these things to "sink in" so soon. VERY pleased!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by hcii:
<strong>GREAT!<p>I'll tell ya SC,<p>I have been affected by a lot of things in my life emotionally, but I can honestly say that this has affected me probably more so than anything. It may seem strange, but I can picture that in my mind ever so easily, and I have never cried (joyously) so much in my life for another strangers situation. I can only hope and pray that my WW will come around out of the fog just a little.<p>I can, for the first time, see what it feels like when some of the older posters on this board say they feel what we are going through. I know now they REALLY can...<p>Keep the Faith! And I'll even give you a little of mine if you need it.......<p>hcii</strong><hr></blockquote><p>HC;
I have felt exactly the same thing while reading others' post here before. It is strange that we can be so emotionally charged by all this. Tears come very easily for me these days!<p>I appreciate your support, and hope you too will soon have joyous news to share!

Now that the euphoria of events yesterday has subsided...the questions begin....<p>What does this really mean? Is she really taking responsibility for her actions, or is this just something she felt she had to say because Steve suggested it? (He told me that was one of the things he was working on, together with the "privacy" issue, which she has claimed all along when I've exposed her lies).<p>Does this mean she's ended it? or is planning to end it? I've seen no changes in her habits, still the odd phone calls, still picking up to check for messages all the time, still always out of the house at the same times....I see no change there to indicate this.<p>I also see no signs of withdrawl.<p>Does she really get it now? Where is she in that process? What parts does she get and what parts is she not there yet? Obviously I was not going to LB by hammering her on any of this yesterday, as I did not ask about the OM, or ending it, or no contact either. Too soon, I know this has to wait and come in due time. Extraordinary measures for no contact will be very, very hard for her to accept...I know that will be a major challenge...hope Steve works on her enough to make this happen.<p>Does she really realize how this has hurt me? Us? I'm not too sure about that either. Many, many questions remain.<p>I did sense a change though, like for the first time we really were able to sit down, talk about what happened, at least a little bit, like a barrier that was there before had been broken, like SOMETHING in the communications changed. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it felt like somehow now it'd become easier to talk. We'll see.<p>I was completely calm throughout all of this conversation, making sure she would not back out of it and be able to use the excuse that I intimidate her with my reactions. I was totally understanding, sympathetic, non-blaming, non-confrontational...just listening and nodding, smiling some.<p>She talked of the Harley concepts, about how she agreed with some, not all. I wonder which ones? I wonder whether she thinks we don't need to "process" the A, that we can leave it behind. I wonder if she'll ever be able to reveal more of it.<p>I can't help but feel suspicious, full of doubts. Too many lies, for too long...I can't get rid of the feeling she's plotting something...I'm sorry to be such a cynic, but I am just incredulous, it seems too good to be true. I wonder what the contact information I'll get sson will show; did she visit him when in FL a few weeks ago? Did the calls continue after that? Have they continued since? What about on the OM's b/day (5/21)? And how will we handle that information now, after yesterday? Does anything change from the approached we'd discussed before? How? Why?<p>I also still wonder if we will ever be able to truly make significant and lasting changes in our R. The radical honesty seems so alien to her, so many othe things seem to be so very hard to change. I wonder if there will be a day when she does not continue to "know" what I feel, think, mean...that's been a tough fight. Many small things we'd talked about before and she'd said she'd try to change or stop have just continued; change is very, very slow.<p>Don't mean to rain on my own parade, but aren't these questions valid? I mean, here we espouse patience, believing in actions, not words, and we also know that fog-lifting does not happen all at once nor does it necessarily stay lifted. The WS often reverts before moving forward again.<p>We shall see. Thanks for everyone's support; this is an important breakthrough and I hope I'm being overly-concerned, overly-cautious. I hope I'm wrong.<p>[ June 02, 2002: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</p>

SC:<p>I guess I'm not surprised. I felt the same way after my W seemed to be coming out of her fog. But, over the long haul (the past few weeks), all but this upcoming conference (still don't know whether she's going) seems to indicate SLOWLY that she's coming out of it. Our next MC and IC sessions are next week after we get back to town, and it will have been 3 or 4 weeks since the previous ones, so I hope we can make some progress.<p>Also, the coworkers that were going with us out of state aren't, so we're going to have a whole week to ourselves! We're both looking forward to that.<p>Try not to be too paranoid. After all, people really ARE out to get you! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

"People really ARE out to get you"<p>2222 ----- looooooong!<p>Your wicked sense of humor slays me! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] I am helpless .... I surrender .... take me to your leader. The truth is out there..... and so is 2222.<p>P [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

"People really ARE out to get you"<p>I've always know this; especially my WW and her wicked drug-dealer OM! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>But I've been reluctant to admit it because then I might have to cut down on my coffee intake, which keeps me on my toes! (And I certainly don't want to let TooMuchCoffeeMan know that I am the REAL king of coffee-drinkers!) [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

This is just killing me...I can't help but think that everything she said was just regurgitated from what she heard from Steve and that there's very little substance to it.<p>Can't help but feel she now feels "safe" in that her on-going communications and relationship are not going to be spied on anymore, and she somehow thinks this can go on and everything will be OK.<p>What an awful feeling....

Keep telling yourself that it's a possibility. <p>BUT, even if she were just "regurgitating", it can't go on for long. She can't live with herself lying to you, Steve, and herself for long. And soon, you and Steve will require actions to back up the words.<p>I know it's nerve-racking for you. You're smart for realizing that you need actions, not words to really better about things.<p>And also, (sorry), but even if she was being totally honest with you, and meant every word she said, aliens are VERY capable of changing her mind very quickly also. So (sorry!!!) keep that in mind too.<p>Patience... patience.... patience... <p>I like the sig line on here (I think it's Elad) "Lord, please give me patience, and give it to me NOW!!!" [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>When's your call to Steve? Today? Looking forward to the update.<p>You can DO this!!!! Keep your chin up!<p>[ June 03, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

It's SO good to have you around, Faith! You're a ray of sunshine in an otherwise cloudy day! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Our call is on Thursday because that is the time my W said she needed to finish the "assignments" Steve gave her.

Hi SC,<p>Ok, I will confess that I read this backwards. Started from page 20 and read back to the good news on page 18. Now I see that your joy is a bit shakey. Very very normal. You were up on cloud nine with no rope!!! Come back to earth! <p>I am happy for her revelation but as you now know, putting those words to action will take a while. What we do not want you to lose is your plan. You keep to where you need to be to be able to take care of yourself. Right now those are words coming from you W and if they just stay as words, they will mean little. Just like the words she may have said to the OM. <p>When she says the right words, commend her then watch her actions. At the same time, DON'T make promises based on her words. Many a WS try to use this time to clean out their attic of the BS cobwebs (things that stand in their A happiness way). Sometimes major manipulation shows up. RE: they think you are fooled by their words so they can try to push the A farther. <p>What usually happens at this time is that the A starts to die. RE: U can't be in 2 places at the same time. If her words are lies, they will be lies in both places and the OM may try to get more than she is willing to give. <p>See whether we like it or not, there are still only 24 hours in a day. Living a double life does not give one more hours in a day. <p>Stay strong. Stand firm. 'Be cautious as serpents, yet innocent as doves.'<p>take care,

Hi SC!!!<p>I was excited to hear your wife is accepting responsibility for her actions. A typical WS in the fog blames the BS for everything. This is a very good huge sign!!!!!<p>You are thinking clearly by watching to see if her actions line up with her words. That is VERY important!<p>As far as her really "getting it". I wonder sometimes if they will EVER really "get it". I think people go into denial because there is only so much negative thoughts you can handle about yourself. It is definately a process and does not happen overnight. Which is why it is written that it takes 5 years to get over an A. Just don't expect everything to be easy from here on out. <p>Your also being wise by being patient with your wife and not exposing ALL your feelings of inner turmoil to her all at once. <p>I'm glad you are suspicious and full of doubts. That shows you are loving and protecting yourself. You should experience this. When people push it under the rug is when problems arise. <p>I think you will truly have significant and lasting changes in your R which includes radical honesty IF <p>1)you pray like you've never prayed before
2)if she is willing
3)if you are willing to do the hard things that will come through counseling with Steve.<p>ALL 3 of these must be present in order for it to succeed. No 2 will hold it together - it MUST be all 3!<p>I just wanted to affirm/validate your feeling and your actions. KEEP being overly-concerned, overly-cautious. I am EXTREMELY happy for you. This is HUGE! BUT you two still have a LONG way to go! Give us an update on Thurs with the next session. It is great that she is open to it AND she trusts Steve!

Thank you Orchid; very wise and sobering advice, and pretty much what I've been thinking. I wish it weren't so...<p>Thanks for being around and for the support! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Iluv;
Thanks for the validation and support. I know I'm doing the right thing, giving it time, patience, and hard work, waiting & watching...but boy, is it tearing me up inside!
I just want to hug her and give her a crazy kiss, and tell her everything's going to be alright...maybe I'll even believe it...
I'm all torn up...heavy bleeding on band-aids...<p>Michele Weiner-Davis was right when she said (paraphrasing) "This will be the most difficult thing you will ever do in you life"
(She was talking about her version of Plan A, known as "The Last Resort")

SC -- I was so happy to read your post this morning about the conversation you had with your WH. Having had a similar revelation by my WH on 5/6 and then him slipping in and out of the fog; I will give you some of the same advice that you gave me through one of your other posts. Baby steps. I have to keep reminding myself of this and you have been an inspiration. <p>I know that the temptation is there to think that once they make this kind of remorseful statement that it's all going to get better soon. Oh how I wish that were true. I have yet to have a response from my WH on my I desire letter and he did not take last week off to "sort out his head" and we had no contact for the entire week. Then he called last night to see if I was ok. I was in a good mood so it was easy to stay in plan A and be upbeat as I had just run another 10K and generally had a good weekend. <p>Hang in there. I am hoping the best for you. I think it IS a start. I would live "as if".

You're absolutely right USH, baby-steps...all the way...I keep hoping I can move to toddler-steps, but it's not meant to be. Baby-steps all the way!<p>Thanks for your support!

Orchid; You said:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> What usually happens at this time is that the A starts to die. RE: U can't be in 2 places at the same time. If her words are lies, they will be lies in both places and the OM may try to get more than she is willing to give.
<hr></blockquote><p>You think this is what is happening? I mean, "the START of the end of the A", rather than "she ended it"?<p>I was thinking about your post and that kinda' hit me.<p>Why would she say she is responsible and didn't mean to hurt me if it's not over? Well, yes, I can see it...maybe you're right...I don't know what to think...

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Spacecase:
<strong> ..........
Why would she say she is responsible and didn't mean to hurt me if it's not over? Well, yes, I can see it...maybe you're right...I don't know what to think...</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Because she knows she is responsible. It is an undeniable piece of evidence. Even in the fog they know this. But the WS tends to sweep everything under the run until there is a big huge hump in the middle of the room for all to see. Is it the mysterious elephant? No, just a bunch of dust bunnies from the A. What value does it add to your home (aka family)? None what so ever. The WS knows this. Eventually they have to start to acknowledge it. That is when you get the admission of guilt. <p>The point here where many of us BS make a mistake is that we think the WS have ended the A as a because those 'few' statements were made. What often happens is that the WS is testing the waters and at this time may be trying to make a decision. U have no clue what questions the OP is being subjected to at this time. <p>I know I never knew this. I never even considered the fact that the OP and WS were not having a grand time. Then I saw it. In my case, the OP has a big mouth and she would call the house and leave those hurtful 3rd party messages (PBR is psyco) just to let me know she was mad at the WS. It took a while for me to figure out, once I did, life became bearable and even out right funny. One time I was laughing so hard at the OW's antics, the WS was laughing also. He called her a few names but sobered up when I asked him if he would let her know what he called her or I could. LOL!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] I still had the last laugh in that one!<p>Take care,

Orchid;
Thank you for your insight; it helps SO much to at least be able to TRY to predict what's going on, or might be coming. It is just invaluable to have the benefit of others' past experiences.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> The point here where many of us BS make a mistake is that we think the WS have ended the A as a because those 'few' statements were made. What often happens is that the WS is testing the waters and at this time may be trying to make a decision. U have no clue what questions the OP is being subjected to at this time.
<hr></blockquote><p>I think you're right with this statement. It was probably just wishful thinking on my part to believe it could actually already be over...the show goes on and I'll try to behave! [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ June 03, 2002: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</p>