Well, I was gone for a about a week with our oldest daughter to a horse show 17 hours away. Came home this morning on a flight, was at the hospital late last night and early this morning, with our oldest daughter. We were driving to Atlanta Georgia Airport, stopped at a gas station and she passed out in the bathroom. They called paramedics and took her in to the hospital. She is okay, stressed out, low intake of fluids, not sleeping well, sunburned. SNL bi*c*ed at me when I called him following the ambulance to the hospital. Telling me I can't take care of our daughter, making me feel so abused and worthless. I had the opportunity to drive her big truck 4 hours from the hospital to the Airport. So we can catch our flight in the morning.<p>Well, as many of you know who my WH is, (SNL) found out he has been trying to contact the OW in his life. Asked him repeadedly if he is contacting her, he always said no. The phone bill came, and he made about 6 or 7 calls in her state and I called every # to find out what they were. He did this in March. He called nursing homes, police, battered wifes. I asked him about it, and he is using his word games again. He said you asked me if I contacted her. He said he said no, that he didn't contact her, but I have the proof that he was searching for the famous sexual bimbo. Word games again (searching, contact, communicating, etc). He says he wants to contact her to get herself tested for AIDS, etc. I asked him to get himself tested, and to this day he hasn't. Yeah, was I born yesterday. He also, stated today that he wants to find out what happened between him and her. As in his past posts we can read over and over he knows what happened. He said today he wants to know why she dumped him. DUHHH!!!!!! As stated in his posts, she is returning to her H, and proving to him that she loves him. <p>Does this sound like a man who is concerned about his family? I can't take any more of his lies. They are driving this family nuts. He has the guts to laugh about it, and that makes matters worse. <p>Yes, I am back and going to write, can't see the psycologist this week. SNL sure speaks well of me. <p>When do the lies stop, or do they never, because he has done it for so long? Honesty is suppose to be his #1 emotional need. What about the rest of the family. Doesn't honesty need to be presented to the whole family? <p>As reading in the other posts. This man is not the man who I married, the lies, deceit, spending money foolishly on his OW, lies to the kids, taking time away from the family and resources. This man was suppose to take care of his family through thick and thin. Till death do us part. But as you read his vows were a lie. He lied to God, he lied to the priest, he lied to me, to both our families who witnessed the uniting of two people into one. When does one finally give up the lies and say I need to get back with God, no more lies, no more justifying my mistakes, no more being unloving to ones family. <p>This is so hard to take, and he kind of laughed, and said I am insane. Like everyone else is off and he is on track. SNL needs to look at himself and see that his family is hurting big time here and he just does his own thing without remorse or guilt!! <p>While I was gone dad wasn't here much, and of course I see that he posted quite a bit again. <p>So now what, do I get a detective, or what, go and have his room searched. Found a picture of his bedroom at the unfinished house he is living in on his clipboard. I suspect he is going to send her pictures of his bedroom - come join him in his bungaloo munchkin. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Does one who lies like this even have God in their heart, or what? This upset me so much today, I just want to leave and never come back, but our poor kids, they need some stability. This house is one certain mess, I learned a lot about our oldest daughter and the stress she feels, and the hurt she feels. Talked to SNL & he doesn't see it, and so that is where it stands. He told me she has to get a grip on life. That is a famous statement of his, get a grip on life, even when your father is the adulterer and the one not being interested in the family. <p>THIS HURTS!!!!!!!<p>Wish all WS's would go to one island and fend for themsselves, and see who survives. Now that WH has commmitted one affair, looks like he is searching to continue or maybe have another. This man is not the same man 24 years ago. He is a stranger to many eyes here. The pain is so strong here. PRAY FOR OUR KIDS PLEASE!!!!!!

Dear Thinker,
I am so sorry to hear about your daughter. I hope she is feeling better physically and emotionally. I am worried about my daughters too. They try so hard to understand and be strong, but I know it is so difficult for them. My oldest rarely talks about it and won't tell me what she is thinking (other than "nothing phases her anymore"). Your family will remain in my prayers. SNL confuses me, so I can only imagine what he does to you! He has some great advice for some people and then he treats you like this...I just don't get it. I feel your pain through your words Thinker and I am so sorry you have to go through this. My H is not the man I married either, he is a stranger to me and to both of our families. Good luck and God bless Thinker.
BH

I am sorry for your pain. I don't think you can expect to get anything but lies from someone who justifies everything and does not want to "fix" the marriage...sad, but true.<p>Question--I thought you guys are in Plan B...why the contact? The point of Plan B is to protect you from these continual painful interactions...I think you should avoid any interaction with him and spare yourself the pain.<p>Kathi<p>[ April 15, 2002: Message edited by: kam6318 ]</p>

Ok Thinker, you want me to just give him her phone #? I mean there are sooo many OWs are there just waiting for a call. Got a number here of an OW willing to even pay for the dirty deed! She takes any MM with a credit card and even those without. She is not picky.<p>Setting that aside, look you need to concentrate on Thinker and your family and your mom. Let SNL stew in his OW stuff. Yes it is dirty, mud and maybe even STD stuff...... SNL, you want to really be known for this? The excuses sound like babble and you need to let him babble by himself to himself. Otherwise it will hurt you. <p>SNL knows this and so do we. He wants to babble, then stop listening. I have done that, it works. I have read a few things SNL has written lately, sounds pretty good but can he walk the talk? Well only good judges of that are his family and so far the reports don't look so good. <p>So my dear, put on your waders, it is going to get dirtier before it gets better U know this! We will be here to help U and even SNL when he decides to walk the talk!<p>Take Care,
L.

Broken - yes I need prayers. This came at such a surprise. SNL says he didn't care if I saw it. This shows you the mind of this troubled man. He doesn't show love to the kids, doesn't really care about the kids. While I was away on the trip with daughter for horse show, he yelled at me that he will stay at this house, and he will do what he wants. The kids need protection. Well, he slept here only once, and said it was too noisy. Our daughter said, she came home from school (college) and the kids were talking loud, SNL came storming down the stairs, cause he was sleeping at 3pm and yelled at the kids and went out in a huff. They said, dad wasn't here much, but by the posts you can see that he had time to sit and talk with you guys. <p>There is interaction, because of horse show, and that was pretty much it. His conversations are always about divorce, etc. I usually hang up on him, and hung up on him quite a few times. No need to hear any more. He has sayed it OVER & OVER.<p>SNL is suppose to be living in his own place. Found he took pictures of his place. Probably to show to the OW, how rustic it is, and come share his twin bed with her. He tells me I can't tell him anything to do, I don't have to know about his where abouts. Basically he likes living by himself. He has stated over and over, how quiet it is in his house. Does this show a man with remorse or guilt. It to me shows a selfish man that used a good woman (myself) and found a whore and wants the whore back. <p>Needing the A/C, today is muggy, I call him to fix it. He comes over, and goes on about how he doesn't have to fix the A/C. I said I will call someone else, his friend Al to come over. He gets on his high horse about you aren't going to spend our money like that, you are not going to call anyone else. The controlling issue, just like controlling with the situation last night with daughter in other state. <p>SNL found him washing his clothes over here. Told him to get his stuff out and go. He then went to the computer and started posting to you guys, and he made a promise to me not to post to MB here at this house. He can do it at his house. He told me he will do whatever he wants to do, and that all the computers in this house are his. He took my computer to his house cause his blew up. I am now sitting down here in an awkward position typing where he used to type. Can't even used my split keyboard, and this damn chair is so hard, he has lots of cushioning, but I don't. But when his darn computer broke, he fixed it right away by using mine and telling me that he will get me a new computer before I got back. Well, he now states he didn't say that, so I guess I will have one of the kids order me a new one. <p>KAM would love it if SNL would stay the heck away from here. But he is the controller that he is, saying my parts are here, my this is here, my that is here. You won't believe how angry he gets, went balistic today, shooting off his mouth when I went upstairs to my bedroom to see if the new computer was there. Of course he is always right, and I am always wrong. When he picked us up at the airport, no nice having you back, just handed me some papers to sign, and did. Found papers of why stay married and etc. Found a picture of his computer, with this fancy new computer chair. Probably to send to the whore. <p>Orchid - please give SNL her phone #. Tell her he got a good blow job from his OW. Hey, give him 2 or 3 #'s, that way he can have one every night. I still am hurt that SNL didn't tell me he had sex with the whore, and kept it a secret for 6 months. To this day, he still hasn't gotten tested but now wants to find the OW to tell her to get herself tested (pretty sneaky ain't it), but he will be surprised!!! <p>Orchid - could we talk this weekend, I don't think SNL will ever see the waters coming. He is so into himself, Steve Harley said the same. He is very selfish, and the way he presents himself here, this is not a family man. This hurts, I married this man cause he was so interested in having children and family, and interacting. He just wants to be by himself. <p>He goes through don't do the woe is me, boy did he ever do it here. Did it to me on the phone a few days ago, saying he is going to eat and eat cause he is depressed. And get to 300 pounds. Which he is probably pretty close to it. His OW told him she was going to commit suicide. SNL writes how manipulative that is, and his OW threatened me with her suicide too, but to SNL isn't she just the most important person in SNL life now. Trying to find her, and she is doing the stuff SNL says he doesn't like in a woman. But he will turn to her, and hey maybe she will come here to share his bed. SNL has more than one screw loose. <p>REMORSE AND GUILT are Gods gift to humans.<p>Daughter is doing good, talked to pharmacist and got stuff to put on her. Taking Motrin for pain every 4 hours. She is strong willed like her dad, but I asked her today to please listen to me some, I do have good advice, and she sees now that this could of been quite serious, her passing out driving a 550Ford pickup truck. We both could of gotten killed and injured another party. She said that is why she felt the need to go to a bathroom. Asked her to express herself to me before hand, I will drive, and let her rest. She is taking too much responsibility and this makes me sad. I love her and the other 3 children so much. Told her and the kids I would cut my arm off for them. They grew in my body, and the pain to have them. WONDERFUL God!<p>Will update, going to get some sleep, doing loads of laundry, and no sleep for 2 days, GOODNIGHT! SNL will probably be kicking in soon. Seen he stays up late to post his theses to you all, and naps during the day. Wish I had it that easy.

I'm sorry Thinker. This stinks - it really does. I had so much hope for you and SNL. He seems like such a smart, caring man - I can't believe he is going this direction.<p>I'm going to make a separate thread for snl, if he'll respond. Seems like he doesn't like to answer my questions.<p>in the meantime, consider this advice. <p>if he is worthy he will fight hard to change himself, and win you back <p>Humans ... come back cause you are the better deal allright, they come back for what you do for them....not for what they can do for you...<p>they will just return home cause why not, it is the easiest choice, especially if you welcome the poor lost soul....boy this is worldclass manipulation....folks do not lower your standards, the ws should work and work hard and give you NO grief, no LB, no nothing, and meet your en's in a sustained, effective, enthusiastic way.... for you to even have a smidgen of hope you are actually being pursued and chosen, instead of settled for. Instead I see a lot of conflict and ws digging their heels in after a "honeymoon" period...newsflash folks, they didn't choose you, watch the behaviour, and you will see all the truth you need, do NOT listen to the baloney out of their mouths.<p>
yes. snl should recognize those words because they are his. Sounds pretty clear to me where he stands. This was his attempt to describe some WS's - like my XH. He describes himself pretty well I guess. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Take care of yourself thinker. Can you take care of yourself and your kids, and let him do whatever he wants to do? DOn't argue with him, reason with him, plead with him, glare at him, or anything. Pray for him and that's all.<p>[ April 15, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

Things are getting worse by the day. My emotional status is I feel more betrayed then ever. While I was gone with our daughter, found out this morning that he took and got into our safe deposit box without my signature while I was gone. Wouldn't wait for me, probably for secrets. The safe deposit box is signed for both of us to be together with both our signatures so one can't get in it without the other. Somehow he did it, going to call the bank today and find out how this happened. <p>You all can believe whatever you want. To me I feel betrayed and anger slapped at me all the time. Anger at me when I was calling to tell him about daughters trip to the hospital, belittling me to the extent of what I have left is gone. NO hi at the airport, could of been a piece of meat and thrown me to the side of the curb, yeah he will say I started it, all he did was give me his clipboard with papers to sign. Looked at every page and found other stuff and he got pissed off. We had a good 10 minutes before this for him to say hello, or how are you, but nothing. <p>SNL paints a pretty picture of himself, what is reality is what is here. The anger he displays and shows the kids is intense. The caring and love shown here is very little. He showed anger at me before daughter and I left for S. Carolina and all the stuff about he will stay at this house for security of the kids and etc. He stayed one night, and said house is too noisy. Kids make too much noise, and too much going on. <p>This is what family is about, noise and interaction.<p>Only interaction SNL seems to want right now is finding his OW. The lies are so hard to deal with, didn't even say anything to me that he went to the safe deposit box without me. I guess something else for me to find, and ask about. LIES, LIES, LIES, when do they stop. What else am I going to find. I didn't look for this safedeposit box issue, it came to me. Just like a lot of the other stuff. Some I looked for and some seem to be placed in my hands. <p>I feel emotionally, SNL is not a man of love, caring, thoughtfulness or kindness. This is a selfish man with looking only at himself and only himself. I know he feels abandonment very hard to the heart, since he feels both his parents abandoned him. Hey I know how abandonment feels. It is hard to deal with, and here he didn't mind abandoning his family for his affair. Abandoning the kids is the hardest thing for me to acknowledge. I would cut my right arm off for our kids. The way SNL talks about our kids, this is not a parent talking. This is one taken over by the devil. <p>When I was talking to SNL on the phone while I was away, and the issues of our daughter and what he feels, he said she just has to get a grip on life. What about holding her, what about telling her I will be right behind her, what about saying to me lets help our daughter out and make her feel better. Everything with SNL has to be black and white. No inbetween. Where is the support from a father to a daughter. She needs love, she needs kisses, hugs, and support. Emotional support, not just doing support. He was so coerce with his voice to me on the phone, like everyone just get a grip on life and leave him alone. <p>I have been reading some of his stuff and things as you see are pretty rotten here. I can't stand all the lies and deceit. Asked him if he is having checks made out to his name instead of the business, what do I believe anymore. What do I do to make sure I and the kids are safe? God needs to help us both, this is so hard.<p>SNL stays on the computer a lot, venting and ranting. I answered the phone twice already this morning. Answered the business phone yesterday, and he is not interested in getting the call yesterday. Asked him twice if want the call, and he said he will get it when he is reaady. Already 2 calls this morning and we will see if he calls me to receive messages. <p>Control is one of the issues SNL has had for many years. He is a controller, and losing control is hard for him. His paperwork procedures are a mess, disorganized and no layout plan. Things are going to get pretty rotten here, and I feel SNL is doing some of this on purpose. It is easier for him to look like the woe is me, and make Thinker the one who is off balance. Just telling my feelings here, and as you see, SNL doesn't like me expressing my feelings. But he is allowed to, control issue.

thinker,
did you see the advice I posted?<p>What do you think?<p>Also, I do agree with some others that if we could keep your support on different threads than snl's, it might help the both of you much more. We are not judges and jurors, we don't want to hear "his story" vs. "your story". We want to help each of you individually. We want to help YOU as the BS with all the feelings, pain, and anger that you have.

Faith - where does one stop with the lies. He posted to the moderator that I am a big liar. What I said is true, to the point. Nothing mislead, nothing contrived, nothing. It is all basic truth without any icing or anything. Just a word game with SNL, says I didn't say searching, or didn't say looking in the phone book for retirement home #'s to find out where she works. When one takes and calls 2000 miles away, where the other woman lives, then one is trying to contact her. But SNL says, no he didn't contact her. He tried, I have proof in the cell phone bill. And can get a record of the call he made to police department in her state. <p>Why is he lieing all the time. <p>I am working on myself Faith. I don't know about the situation here with myself and the kids. Time will tell. SNL won't let me do anything around here without his approval. I am going to get the ants taken care of, tried myself but didn't work. So going to call the company to come out and spray. Want to see if they have anything for ladybugs. They are all over the place, vacuuming up this morning to get rid of these little monsters. I know the kids are hurting, and seeing 2 grown people act like pitiful children. Now SNL is turning and going to the moderator to chastize me and tell them to get me off the boards. SNL doesn't like me telling it like it is. He feels it is his way, and I feel it is my way. But if we were to put a camera here and video the interaction and the voice of both, I think it would show which is telling the truth. <p>Anyways, Faith thankyou for your help and concern. I am hurting big time, didn't know a man could ever do this to his wife. Especially not saying anything to me about what he is doing and when I ask, lie to my Face, and I am going to call the bank about the safe deposit box, waiting for Steve Harley call back. Guess he is busy on the phone with previous client. I was suppose to have a call with him at 10 our time. So will wait for his call. <p>LIES, does one have this ability all their life and it comes out later, or was the opposing person just ignoring the truth. Makes me wonder, thought SNL to be a truthful man, but in the last 10 years have seen traits towards the lies, and the last 2 years, been totally lies after lies. <p>I feel he is hording money, did for the OW, why not now? Seems he has nothing to lose, going to lose everything anyway, divorce will lose both of us everything. So he probably is having checks made out to him and cashing them and who knows, maybe sending her the money (he still has her address) and who knows, might have opened up his own account. Yes, I can ask, but just like when I asked if he contacted her, I have to use the exact word or he feels justified for not telling the truth to me. Told me this morning, he didn't lie, about contacting her. Do you see what is going on in his mind? Lies, Lies, Lies. This HURTS so much [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] So SNL there is a WOE is me statement. Do whatever you want with it.

Thinker, I'm going to be a little tough here, because I had to be tough with myself. <p>I was betrayed. XH moved in with OW and lied to me for months. Yep. It hurts. My XH was gone. In some ways - that's easier - he wasn't in my face lying, arguing, etc. But in some ways - it was hard... so many unanswered questions... wondering where he was... wondering if he's ok... wondering if he ever thinks about me... knowing that he was *with* her for 10 months while we were married [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] ... etc etc etc<p>Let go of all this, hun. <p>Quit blaming snl for your unhappiness. I look back at your last post, and every other sentence has his name in it. See that?<p>WHen my nephews start bickering at each other, I tell one of them to IGNORE the other. Why? Because it drives the other one crazy! The one doing the antagonizing gets frustrated. Ignore him Thinker. If he's worthy, he'll do what he needs to do, and prive himself to you. I don't see that right now, so you're probably better off without him in your life.<p>QUIT blaming him for your unhappiness. QUIT holding him responsible for your life. ACCEPT the fact that he made a HUGE mistake and had sex with another woman. We ALL make mistakes. Some people make up for their transgressions against others - some people don't. You make YOURSELF miserable by expecting him to make things right. He AIN'T gonna make you happy. MAKE YOURSELF happy. He AIN'T gonna change any time soon. Let him wallow in the results of his decisions over the last year. YOU move on and RISE ABOVE IT! <p>Repeat this over and over and over... "I can do ALL things through CHRIST who strengthens me."<p>I gotta get to work now. Talk to ya later....<p>[ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

I think you need to ask yourself why people usually lie. They usually lie to protect themselves. If he came out and told you the complete and honest truth would you refrain from using him as a personal punching bag? If what's here is any indication I would think not.
You ask a for a lot of understanding and compassion but seem not at all willing to extend any to him. Someone has to put a stop to all this and just beause one spouse strays it does not give the BS(I am one myself so don't give me the "I don't know what it feel like" thing) carte blanche to beat the crap out of the WS emotionally.
I do feel for you and a happy you are seeing a professional. But honestly expecting him to lay himself out before you at this point is beyond comprehension. Honesty usually only comes with feeling safe, there's no safety here.

Faith - I will print your statement out and reread it over and over. This man is someone who is driven by the devil. I don't know him, and it is so sad to see him and his eyes. <p>Nudulie2 - why did he lie about the safe-deposit box? This might get him in trouble. Where is the honor of doing things right, and doing what was right in the mind. I don't want him to get fined or put in jail. I am so mixed up with this man, so hurting, so crappy. He is someone else that we don't know. I wrote on the other thread to SNL - to tell what happened today. This is a real mess, and SNL is controlling as ever. He doesn't seem to care about me or the kids. Says, he just wants to get up and leave from this state. <p>He wanted family, kids, and the house and all. Now he wants to be by himself and woe in his mind. I do think SNL has sprung a spring, or something. This is a irrational man walking in SNL shoes. God help us please.

On second thought, don't want to get involved in this. Good luck to you both, stop hurting each other.<p>[ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: Nduli2 ]</p>

Thinker - you are in Plan B and getting a divorce, right?<p>Bottom line is that you need to completely cut SNL out of your life. <p>Yes what he is doing is completely reprehensible.<p>No one on this board can change it anymore than you can or anyone else. <p>Talk to your attorney, get a restraining order, get temporary orders for support, and stop asking him for help. Stop talking to him about anything - thats what the attorney and the court and the judge is for. Get it all in writing and court ordered. He does NOT have the right to take your computer, or tell you who you can or can't get to fix things around the house.<p>Just as you don't have the right to check up on him anymore (you are separated and divorcing), he doesn't have the right to dictate how you live your life, including your finances. <p>You aren't even close to a real plan B, you keep finding reasons to include him in your life. <p>This is your reality Thinker. Your H is acting very very badly. Thats who he is. He isn't the husband you want him to be. Trying to nag, berate, scream, cry, moan and complain him into being an honorable man will not solve anything.<p>Checking up on his contact with the OW accomplishes nothing - its like picking a scab and reopening the wounds.<p>You really don't have to tell us about his lies. Unrepentant WSs typically lie. It's been clear for awhile that your H was very likely either in contact or attempting contact. He says alot of good stuff to others but becomes foggy enough about himself that anyone with any experience already knew what was going on.<p>We already knew that, and honestly, announcing it serves no purpose other than to do even more damage in a very ugly situation.<p>Thinker, take care of you, and ignore your H. All you are doing is hurting yourself. No one is helped, not you, not him, not your kids, by your continued obsession with what he's doing. Draw boundaries and get him out of your life.

Dear Thinker, <p>Now you know the sound of my voice and you both know I care so for what it is worth, here goes. <p>U gotta let SNL go. What SNL does at this point right or wrong is his choice. Remember how SNL called my H a jerk? Well, whether SNL sees himself the same way or not is not required for you to heal. That is the beauty of plan B. <p>Thinker, don't give SNL any more reason to justify his reasons for leaving. A WS will grope for any excuse and expound on it to the point of convincing themselves and all around them of the justification of their actions. How do you think the OPs and WS can get away with the murder of a family?!?!?! Because they allow themselves to believe lies. <p>Ok, that said, there is NOTHING the BS can do to stop those lies from bellowing out of their mouth. But the BS CAN STOP giving them more ammo to make up the lies with. <p>See when I disabled my WS by NOT giving him more reasons, the A eventually ran out of steam. Seems this OW runs on ruining the reputation of others. Why? Because it makes her and the WS look good. When that got removed all her spots and flaws in their relationship came out. You know what? Even if my H would now choose the Ws over his family, I know we will still make it. Even if it renders us homeless. <p>I could not have said that this time last year. Remember when you were both helping me? How hurt I was? <p>Well, my dear you are there now. I hoped SNL would have spared you from this suffering and maybe he did for a while. But the pull of the unknown A (aka: I need to find out about myself and live on my own excuse), is too strong for many. Not just SNL, many others give in to this folly also. <p>So Thinker, concentrate on U. Stop talking about SNL. Let him be what he is. When he is ready to WALK THE TALK then you decide if you are going to be there to see and hear it. Otherwise you may have already decided to move on without him and he will have to decide what to do at that time. <p>Ok? <p>Hugz,
L. <p>Hey SNL? If you are reading this, I understand you not responding. But I care enough to let you both know how I feel. I hope you can respect that. I could just keep those thoughts to myself but I respect the both of you too much to not let you know when there is 'a booger hanging from your nose' and would not want to think everyone else thinks whats going on is ok. <p>Maybe in your eyes, I am not a 'friend' anymore, but I think I am. Let me know when I am not. K?<p>Thanks,
L.

Thinker,<p>Here's a suggestion. Save yourself some hurt. You can read SNL's thread but do not post there. Please!??!?! Consider it a WS thread and you as the BS need to show some respect. Whether there are truth or lies, leave it be. <p>Remember there are many of us here. Truth and lies have a way of showing themselves. Clarification of truth is seen. <p>There are verbal and silent supporters. You both deserve support. What is making your situation so volitale is that we know both of U. If more of the WS' posted here well, War of the Roses could be an international WAR. Hmmm..... [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Ok? Let SNL have his thread. Let him have his say. Show us that you are letting him go his way. Whether he walks or stumbles, let it be on his merit, not yours. <p>I know this hurts hon....really I understand. When you want to lash out at SNL remember me and a few others whose WS' are not members here. Remember that it is more important to walk the talk than just talk. <p>That applies to all here. For all you know, we could all be wacky and exaggerating our stories. Of course some of these events are too wild to even make up but still, if the other side posted, well ...... I think you get my point. <p>Just remember your recovery and that of SNLs may partially depend on your pulling back from being involved in his life. How he acts when he is in your home, IS your concern. You do have the right to set 'reasonable' boundaries. One that is fair towards all. <p>Please ponder the above words. If you want to vent personally, you have my addy. K? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Take Care,
L.

<<<How do you think the OPs and WS can get away with the murder of a family?!?!?! Because they allow themselves to believe lies.>>> <p>I'm filing this with my classics, Orchid. I've never heard it expressed this way - perfect. My DIL lied to herself as much as to anyone! Is this "the fog"?<p>thinker, I am so sorry for how bad you feel.<p>Estes

Yes Estes, that is exactly how I see it. You should here my analogy of terrorist?!?!?! LOL! <p>How are U doing? It has been a while?!?!? <p>Thinker, sorry for the detour. <p>Thanks,
L.

I am amazed that you all knew he was contacting the OW, or searching for her for awhile. What were the signs? He got one over my head. Well, that shows the WS and their deceit and lies. God, why did you create such people to run on this earth and destroy families? It is hurtful that I didn't know until a few days ago. I would ask him and he would lie to me and his mother. SNL told me a few weeks ago he would place his hand on the bible that he wasn't in contact with her. What a liar, see he doesn't even think about God and what he says. Thank you all for telling me, this hurts so much. This man is so hurtful. I thought he was still a reasonable man, but God this hurts so much. I am in tears over this, crying and typing away. Thank you for telling me the truth, and now I know what I have to do for sure. <p>I am talking to Steve Harley for the last time I guess tomorrow. The appt. got canceled for today. I will tell him the lies, the safe deposit box, and his rudeness and staying at the other house while I was away. Contacting the OW. Now I know why he loves to stay at the other house, talk to his sexual bimbo. The lies about he has things to get done. I saw nothing done at the house today. His poor mother, I think she should just sell the property and buy something else. She is hanging by a thread in the house she is in. Was bought out 2 almost 3 years ago and she was suppose to be out of the house long ago. This house is not ready for a nice 70 year old woman to live in. And she is looking any day for an eviction notice. The thing that gets me too is I asked him today, he has 5 headphones for his telephones hanging on the wall. 5 of them! He laughs and tells me a stupid story. Now I know why, now it is coming clear. This man is a sick adulterous man. He doesn't care about his wife, his kids, history or nothing. He cares only about himself. God this man deserves a kick in the butt. That is why he doesn't care about calling me a f*c*ing B*t*h, spitting on my face. That bothered me today, that he called me this probably 10 times today. Told the police. Cause he has his DLM in Arizona for his pleasure. Sure hopes she sees the damaged man he is before she gets burned by him. <p>Our children, God why did our children have to be here to see this? God why did our kids have to have a father like this? Many of you know that 2 of the kids don't respect their dad to this day. The police asked why and I told them that father sent a graphic sexual e-mail to our sons printer accidentally and son read the whole thing, and it was graphic. The policeman shook his head and said my God. <p>Anyways, I was told things by the police and I have to do a few more things. This hurts big time. Orchid, I know I have your #, maybe I'll call you this weekend. Need to go to bed and think about this for a while. What a bunch of crap. Life was meant for fun and pleasure. Not a man who doesn't care about anything but himself and his sexual bimbo. This is for WH<p> [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: thinker ]</p>

Thinker,<p>This is my last post to you today since I have to go make dinner for my family. <p>Remember my words and let him go. If you can bring your MIL to your home then she will be ok until she can relocate. You are one who can care for others so focus the good part of your heart on that. That will take some of your worry off SNL and onto something better. <p>Ok we don't know all that is being said and done between the both of U but right now it still looks like U are stuck on what SNL is doing. Cut the umbilical cord. He is drowning in his sorrows and pulling you down. Your kids and parents (mom and your mil) don't need to see you drown also. K? <p>Promise me that your next post will be on how you plan to help yourself. Try it, please. <p>Hugz,
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