I just read Surviving an Affair, and His Needs Her Needs. I wish I read them 6 months ago.

I love my wife of 21 years and could not imagine being with another woman. We have 3 children (18, 14, and 11). We work together in our business, which had a lot of start-up and growing pains and stress over the past 8 years. I travel overseas 10 - 12 weeks per year on business, and have been consumed by making the business successful. My wife has helped immeasurably, but recently told me she couldn't make love with her "boss" (she's my partner in all senses of the word). From my side only our affection and sex life have been suffering the last few years, but I wrote off our lack of sex (every 2 months) as being my problem to deal with an overactive libido (I'd love to make love with her 2 - 3 times per week - my fanasty and dream, but another issue). <p>In January she got a call from an old boss saying an old friend (and the only A - EA - she's ever had from 18 - 20 years ago) was sick with stage 4 cancer. His wife had gone over the edge and become abusive since his diagnosis, and his grown children were far away and not able to help. He lives 4.5 hrs from us too. But she called him.<p>I was unaware for a few weeks, and overseas for 1 week. When I came back my W told me OM was coming to spend the night - he's just separated from his W and needed a place to stay on the way to NY. We were off and running in a fresh version of an 16 year dormant EA - like no time had passed.<p>She immediately fell in love again. I found emails she sent him and he to her expressing their love for each other and their over the past months the emails increased in intensity and some graphic detail (she doesn't know I found her new email account, although she changed all her passwords and set up a new account, along with a PO box she didn't tell me about). Until this time we have had an open and honest relationship, although we don't always communicate well - we never lied or had any other A. In March they finally crossed over from EA to PA. Shortly afterward she told me she "loves me" but is not "in love with me", and can't be intimate with me unless she's in love with me.<p>She justified her focus on him as she being the only caregiver he had, and as a compassionate helper to deal with all the medical treatments. <p>He went in for surgery and she spent the night before with him so he could make it to the hospital for 6:30am surgery. Then she was at the hospital with him for a week and spent the last night with him in a hotel. It was major abdominal surgery where they found the cancer to be inoperable so it wasn't sexual between them, but the idea of my wife sleeping with him drives me crazy.<p>I've tried to give her space and time to help take care of him, but then they allowed it to cross the line from compassionate care giving to passionate PA. We've gone through the worst fights of our lives together - I hurt and feeling betrayed and she asking for privacy and accusing me of being oppressive - she wants and needs space to do what she thinks is necessary.<p>I told her to go move in with him if she wanted (when she's here she's either researching treatments or talking with him or thinking about him or emailing him, so at least she could connect her heart and her body). <p>But she doesn't want to give her family and her life. So she goes there whenever she feels she needs to for a weekend or a few days during the week. He is seriously ill and probably won't live out the year - maybe the summer. Often he's sick when she's there, but they have found enough occassions to have sex (since I'm cut off and monogomous without other choices this hurts). When she comes home she tells me how much they talk and how interesting it is, as well as walking on the beach and spending all their time being together. (Who's working to pay the bills??? - me).<p>I've been on the emotional rollercoaster. I support her compassion and caregiving, and she will not break it off (I did get her to read Surviving an Affair and I think it gave her some insights). With his condition it will end in some months anyway.<p>I've told her the compassion and help she provides him is wonderful, but i don't support her being his lover. she simply asked me to be patient with her 'indulgence', and asked for my forgiveness. <p>There is a lot wrapped up here, short-term and long-term. But I do love her completely.<p>I want to start trying to uncover her needs so I can try and start meeting them, but I doubt she will do the EN form. She doesn't want to discuss us now until the crisis is over - all her focus is on him. Any suggestions?<p>[ April 17, 2002: Message edited by: Ptash ]</p>

Lots of stuff going on in there. I am not going to even attempt to give you a suggestion. I will try to give you some insight as to what you wife may be going through.<p>From what I can tell, you wife has a very strong desire to be important and needed. The OM is filling that role for her. She may not feel that she has a purpose in life, that what she is doing has worth and meaning, that she is making a difference. Part of that is a personality flaw but a part of that is also a significant and realistice desire to be needed by someone. Do you need you wife? Does she feel needed and important to you?<p>As crazy as it may seem, you may have an opportunity to reconnect with your wife here. Counseling, if she is willing, would be a great place to start. You know that her relationship with him has to end one day, if for no other tragic reason than his death.<p>The following is not a recommendation but it is a thought I had as to how Jesus may act in such a situation....<p>You could join her in her assistance of him. Be there with her while she does whatever she does to help him. Set a boundary. Let her know that you care about him as well (hopefully we all would care for the health of another human being that is dealing with such) but you will not be an enabler of a continued affair. I doubt, though I don't know, that she would kiss him or be intimate with him while in your pressence. Take an active role in what she is doing. Change your job so that you do not have to travel.<p>It is very likely that once the OM sees you are a real person - that he would have to see you each time he sees your wife, that he would no longer be able to continue the relationship either.<p>One other idea (but not a recommendation) would be to have the two of you agree to hire a nurse to care for him so that the two of you would no longer need to be a part of his suffering.<p>Your situation is a bad one and a good one at the same time. It is bad because your wife's feelings are likely to intensify as his health decreases. It is a good one because you know it will eventually end; but horribly.

Ptash,<p>I have only one comment. Given the situation, you don't have a snowball's chance of ending this, until there is an end. Even then she may hang on to the "Great times" she had with him, with no children to take care of, no H to take care of, no house to take care of. <p>You simply cannot compete. That leaves the decisions up to you. Can you take this? Can you apply plan A to this? Do you want to move on?<p>Finally, I have some questions for you. Who is taking care of the children while all of this is going on?? I fear that they have been left completely out of this. Do they know what is going on? <p>Part of me says: go to Plan A and hang on. (That is the part that is probably right.)<p>Part of me says: go to Plan B and have her move out to be with this man, she is doing nothing to help you, the family or the business right now. Hire someone to do her job and once the OM is out of the picture, then consider what to do.<p>This is a very difficult situation, complicated by this mans disease. I am sure it is pulling at all of her heartstrings. However, as you suggested, there must of been other things wrong in the marriage for her to so completely dump everything. That YOU need to figure out and address.<p>God Bless You and Your Family,<p>JL

Dear Ptash:<p>Yours is an incredible story. I am sorry for the pain all round. I agree with JL's assesment of your choices.<p>I would add the following questions<p>What does your W expect of you? Does she see the problem(s) the marriage,that she is 50% responsible for, that made this affair possible?
Does she acknowledge the pain and effect her actions have on you and your family?<p>I believe her answers to these questions will help you in your own choices in this matter.<p>Please take care of yourself. The resentments that are naturally building may make it very difficult to recover.<p>All my best<p>Jack

Thanks for the words and ideas. Actually I never quit and never give up - if I had the business would have failed years ago and we might not be in the situation. But I will never give up on my marriage or wife as long as there is hope.<p>Mr. Bunky is right - she does have strong need to be needed. I need her and she knows it. But she feels her friend needs her more right now. The EA part of it just turned into PA - a natural evolution in my book due to sharing such a time (and some history) together. I regret she crossed the boundary, but I'm not surprised given the situation. And maybe because he's dying it is a "safe" affair in her eyes - she can be needed and be intensly involved but knowing it will end.<p>She does express her sorrow at hurting me, and I know she is being honest. She simply loves him too. <p>She does separate the problems into 1) current crisis; and 2) pre-existing problems in our marriage. She hasn't said how much she accepts responsibility - especially in my book for not communicating enough. But maybe I didn't listen enough and connect with her when she needed. We're both guilty and it didn't happen overnight, but the pressure in the dam burst and it unleashed a flood.<p>I did suggest she move out, but she doesn't want to leave her family and friends and her life. So she wants to try and make it work, wanting to be in 2 places at once. She is full of conflict but really feels God has given her an important purpose here - to help this dying man realize love can exist in his life (she's getting a lot out of it too as she has fallen in love with him).<p>I am taking care of our children. I am making extra time to be with them and do things with them, especially when she is away with OM. It is a good opportunity for me to connect better with them. They don't suspect anything too strange is happening except an old friend is dying and their mom is an angel trying to help comfort him.<p>Plan B is out. I'm looking at trying to identify her needs better and find small day-to-day ways to meet them and build some positive deposits in her love bank. I know I can't compete with a dying friend, but I can remind her that she has a family that cares and loves her without reservation. And that will be here to support her no matter what. Maybe it's carte blanche, but Jesus did show unreserved love and I'm trying to do the same.<p>Tough part is not having a support group. That's where you come in - folks who have shared similar troubles and can offer insights and suggestions and support. Thanks.<p>By the way, I did start marriage counseling alone - she won't go now but promises to later when things calm down. She did read Surviving an Affair, and next I'll try Her Needs.<p>How can you try to assess her needs if she won't participate / is not ready to do it?<p>Thanks,
Paul

Hello Paul,<p>I am so sorry about what is happening to your family! What a tragic situation all the way around. You are welcome here. There will be someone here to talk with day and night.<p>As JL said, you cannot win back your W while her friend needs her care. She has made a bad mistake in judgment to do what she is doing (PA) and the way she is doing it, but she won't turn back. What she is doing to you is cruel and grossly unfair even though her motive to help OM is understandable.<p>You said:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>She is full of conflict but really feels God has given her an important purpose here - to help this dying man realize love can exist in his life (she's getting a lot out of it too as she has fallen in love with him).
<hr></blockquote><p>Isn't it horrifying to have someone you love use God as an excuse to do something immoral!! My DIL used that excuse also, although her OM is not dying. God put the OM (a former HS love) back in her life because He knew she could help save OM from his wayward life. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] God was bringing new people into her life. God called her to move to another state. She even told her priest that. Good grief. Obviously, adultery and lying is not of God. To use God as justification is, of course, a cop-out and self-delusion.<p>Your W is lost and misguided for now, and because of the unusual circumstances of this A, there are many justifications that she can use to make her behavior sound noble. <p>So, since you must wait this out, use the time for Plan A so that you will present a safe haven for her to turn to when she is devastated by OM's passing. It is likely that she will suffer terribly and may face a real mental health crisis.
She will need you. Protect the children. Avoid LBs at all cost. (Do you know about LBs?) To LB will make you the bad guy and give WW an excuse to distance herself from you.<p>Now what to do as far as your actions are concerned? Show compassion for the plight of the OM. Mr. Bunky's suggestion to offer to help is a great idea. Nonjudgmentally make it clear that the A is wrong and unacceptable in spite of the fact that helping a dying friend is a worthy act. Forgive her for the pain she is causing and how unfair she is being to you. You do not deserve what she is doing to you. You did not cause her to make the choices she has made. She's a lost soul right now, and the worst is still to come. Since you still love her deeply and want your M to recover, remain open to her; behave in such a way that she HAS to respect the way you handled this. Then maybe, once this is over, she will see in you an admirable man, one who made great sacrifices to support her even when her behavior did not deserve it.<p>I will follow your story with interest. You are going to have to be one strong man, Paul. My prayers are with you. Are you a spiritual person? If so, that may be what gets you through this. Take care.<p>Estes<p>[ April 17, 2002: Message edited by: Estes49 ]</p>

Ptash,<p>You may never give up, but Plan B is not about giving up. It is about protecting the one thing that can save your marriage: your love for your W.<p>There will come a time and it won't be in too distant a time, when you will be worn down by running a business, the required travel, taking care of the children (how old are they, by the way?), and trying to deal with the fact that your W is having an A.<p>IF you don't apply Plan B soon enough, you will find that you will have lost your love for your W as well as built up a hugh amount of resentment and you won't have the strength or interest to try and rebuild it. THAT is what Plan B is about. At some point BEFORE you feel you have lost all love for her, you will need to go to plan B in order to slow down the drain of what Harley calls the Love units. When you account hits zero, you won't have what it takes to rebuild.<p>In business terms you will have run out of working capital and won't be able to handle the cash flow.<p>So do your best Plan A, and do it for as long as you think you can, BUT the point is to move to Plan B BEFORE you are ready to give up. So that you keep enough in reserve to save the marriage IF you get the chance.<p>One, final thought. Plan B is not for punishing the spouse,although they may think that. Plan B is not for convincing them to come back, although sometimes that happens. Plan B is a loving separation that allows you to preserve what you will need IF she decides to come back to the marriage.<p>Please do a lot of reading about Plan B and its relationship to Plan A. My guess is that if you don't make use of Plan B, you will not have the strength to deal with her grief over losing "the love of her life", her guilt over what she has done to the family, her children and you.<p>If you read here for very long, you will learn that getting the affair to end, is not even 40% of the battle. The real work comes once it has ended and you will need strength and patience for that.<p>You have one advantage over many here. You know that the physical affair will end sometime in the future with his death. The problem is that the emotional attachments may and probably won't end at that point. That could take years because you will be competing with a ghost.<p>So husband your resources wisely Ptash, you are going to need them.<p>God Bless,<p>JL<p>[ April 17, 2002: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</p>

Hi Estes49:
Thanks for your supportive words. It's encouraging to know there is a group to help, even if bound by such troubled relationships as I'm reading about here. I have talked to one of our oldest friends, but they and family are too close to the situation and I really want to avoid collateral damage with family and friends when my W comes back. <p>I know her as a wonderful person caught in a web. Even now when she has been discreet she has never lied to me - if I ask a question she will answer or say she won't answer - but she does not tell lies. As she told me recently "I don't know how I got into this, and I don't know how I'm going to get out. But I can't abandon him - he needs me too much, and he doesn't have anyone else". <p>She will have my forgiveness, although I'm not handing it out just yet. Judging people is not the major issue and it's not productive in my book. There were an unfortunate set of circumstances that led to this EA being rekindled by compassion and turning into passion. They had both closed the EA chapter years ago, even if the distant memory lingered.<p>This leads into a big fear I have that JL talked about - when it's over, she will have a lot of strong emotions and will have created a lot of feelings that will stick around - probably for the rest of her life. Only time can fade them, but never erase them. She's listening to CD's he gave her over and over again, to etch them and her emotions and this time into one. (I still can't listen to songs from when their EA was going hot in 1982 without the feelings rushing out, so I fear the same will happen again now and with her.)<p>I can't compete with a ghost - who can? He always has and always will hold a special place in her heart. But I believe we can fall in love again after the grieving process.<p>So if most A's end with the wayward spouse becoming depressed, and depression is a part of the death grieving process - do I face a double D?<p>I doubt she will seek treatment or medication for it, but I will try, and ask her sister and closest friends to help encourage her. I even asked the OM - if he really cared for her - to encourage her to get professional help to deal with all the stress that's on her. I think he mentioned it but she's not buying yet.<p>This is really complicated and I appreciate your thoughts and comments.<p>Our kids are 18, 14, and 11. I have cut my travel schedule way back to stay home with her and the kids. She needs my ear and my support - she is my best friend and I am still hers, although we do have our tense and stressful moments. But since I read His Needs, I'm doing everything I can to minimize any negative moments with her and just be her loving and caring friend without judging her. She is plenty confused and guilty and full of negative emotions and stress without me adding to the flames.<p>Thanks again,
Paul

Hi JL:
Thanks for your words and comments. I am working on Plan A. I doubt he will live much beyond 6 months, so there is a time limit.<p>I appreciate your comment to save my strengh and resouces. I've lost 20 lbs (not a bad thing - got rid of a spare tire that had developed). I've joined a tennis team and am running and lifting weights (lots of sit-ups to make up for thousands of beers over 25 years). I'm spending a lot more time with my kids. In short I'm using this as a wake-up call to rearrange my life and my priorities. I was obsessed by our business, but now I'm pulling back and investing my time and energy in more important things.<p>Whatever happens, I will be in the best shape I've been in in 15 years. Although my emotions are a bit frazzled.<p>My dad (age 57) died 25 years ago over 9 months of progressively worsening cancer, so I've been through this as a close family member. I was dating my W at the time, and she helped me get some of his dying out of my system. Now it's my turn, although not exactly the same. Last year my mom (80) had 4 bypasses, burst her gall bladder with an ulcer and almost died. My W was there and steady and compassionate and wonderful. So she's got the touch. In this case the PA took them over the edge and things got out of control. <p>I agree I can't win her back at this point, but I can keep the door open and make sure she knows she has a loving friend and a warm home where she is protected. She does feel very isolated (and guilty) right now, so I'm the one she can turn to. It is the right thing to do, and if I handle it and myself right and protect her, it will deposit major units in the Love Bank. <p>So I choose this path.<p>I would surely love some affection and sexual contact, but I realize with her it's impossible right now. So I guess I'll just wait for her - no other choices I can see.<p>Thanks again,
Paul

Dear Ptash:<p>You are a strong person, no doubt. It is good she sees the problems for you and family in what she is doing. These are important items when you are given the chance to rebuild.<p>I would be aware that as you are taking such a high road in the situation her guilt may make it more difficult for her to turn to you for her support. Provide that safe haven while you can, it is best that she turn to you for strength (vs others) as long as you are able.<p>I am happy you are seeing a counsellor. It is important that a third independent person help you see the impact this is having on you and your ability to recover. As well as monitor your status and reserves. <p>JL's definition of plan b is important for you to consider. You will need even more resources to do the real work of going through your W's grief, withdrawal, recovery and then as you so rightly pointed out competing with a ghost. Plan B is the tool to allow you to keep the strength you will need to work through these things.<p>Ptash, you appear to be a person capable of the strength this requires.<p>All my best to you.<p>Jack

How can you try to assess her needs if she won't participate / is not ready to do it?<p>You can't. You cannot make deposits to an account that has been closed to you. My wife did not even want me to know what her ENs were during her A for fear that I would meet them. She did not want to feel conflicted in her decision to be with the OM. She was much more happy with me LBing.<p>If she is willing, perhaps she will read Torn Asunder and After the Affair. I would not even waste time with HNHN at this point. You cannot hope to pull her away from him by your action. She has to make the decision to leave him because she realizes it is wrong. No amount of plan a/meeting needs on your part is likely going to change her behavior; it will only frustrate and hurt you due to unrealistic expectations.

I am usually one of the first people at this site to recommend moving to plan b but in your case, I think that would not be advised. You know the relationship is going to end. This is some validity to the idea that your wife needs to be alone -- to depend on herself and not have you to fall back on emotionally when this fantasy comes crashing down. It will help her to better feel the consequences of her behavior. Consequences are necessary for learning and growth.<p>I think I have considered this enough to the point that I think I can make a recommendation. I would try to get involved as much as possible in her treatment of him, while assertively and respectively telling her that you will not support, nor do you approve of what she has been doing. If she refuses to let you participate, then it may be time to respectively ask her to move out.<p>There will come a time when you will be doing your children a diservice by protecting them (and her) from the truth. Children need to know of the frailty of their parents. I so wished I knew the reason for my parents divorce (infidelity) so I could have been more attentive to such in my marriage.<p>I think, in the future, you would be advised to approach your children, in a nonjudgemental way, and explain to them what is going on -- that your wife is confused and suffering from poor judgement but that you love her and have not given up on your marriage. Also, that they should know that their mother still loves them but that she is "confused" (sick, needs help, etc. - whatever word you feel is most appropriate).<p>You won't be able to compete with a ghost but part of the recovery process is your wife learning that what she was feeling during and after the A was not real and to not compare it to your marriage. We BS struggle with the same thing.

Paul,<p>I hope you understand I am not advocating that you go to Plan B now. But, what often happens here is that people only consider Plan B when they are ready for a divorce. It is too late to really effectively use Plan B the love is gone, the resentment too high, and the marriage will have a much lower chance of survival.<p>What I am advocating is that you seriously consider Plan B NOW, consider how you would implement it, when you would, etc. Then refine your thinking in the months to come. You may never go to it, you may never need it, but NOW is the time to figure out how to use it, and why you are using it. Plan A and Plan B are tied together and they are plans to optimize the chance of restoring your marriage.<p>I admire you strength and fortitude, but be prepared for the roller coaster. I am also glad to hear that you are taking care of the children more. My guess is that the 18 year old, especially if a girl, already has a pretty good idea of what is going on. The others won't be far behind in figuring it out.<p>My only suggestion is be honest with them. Don't lie to them. The message that "when the going gets tough, tough lie." is not what you want to send. You don't have to spill the beans but if they ask direct questions I suggest that you answer them honestly. They need to know that their world is in some jeapordy especially the older one. <p>Something to talk with your counselor about Paul. They will handle the truth better than a lie or the brush off.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

Thanks again for the encouragement.<p>She's with him now and has been for a couple of days. Not romantic - he can't get out of bed and sleeps much of the time. For a 46 year old who's been very active and in good shape, this is tough for him. He sits on the porch and after an hour has to lie down again because he's exhausted.<p>She told me he's got cold sweats now - constantly. He just needs someone to lean on - and it happens to be my wife since his is a basket case (she beat him - he 6' and 200lbs defended self but didn't leave). When he was diagnosed she freaked out and wouldn't have anything to do with him - and after a short time he left.<p>Nurses at the hospital have told my W she's wonderful to help take care of him - that they had met his W and she was a devil-***** (sorry, but I guess there aren't any good ways to describe it). Into this my W stepped and then got sucked in, although she didn't defend her and our boundaries in this case and it has been a tough go. Still I support her caregiving, not the PA. But it will end maybe sooner than we expected.<p>She and his dad worked for several days trying to help get his stuff in order - financials, business (he owns his small company too), and went with him to the lawyers to discuss final arrangements. All the while he was unable to sit up for long, exhausted, naseaus and vomiting 3 - 4 times per day. Unable to hold anything down. His W and 2 grown boys he spent so much time with when they were growing up are nowhere to be found. So my W feels he doesn't have anybody else to take care of him. She's naturally very compassionate and helpful and loving toward those in trouble - this has brought more than we bargained for.<p>He's getting an mri scan now to baseline the size of the tumors (last month 7 inches on his liver and extensive colon rectal cancer that was spreading fast).<p>So it's a rotten situation all around, with the PA the least of my worries. I'm a loyal and dedicated guy and never strayed with EA or PA and my W only the former EA with this guy - but afterward she had 3 beautiful children from me and we built a good life together. We will survive this too.<p>Now she needs my shoulder and no judgements or extra pressure - only my unreserved love and support. Of course I let her know I can't support the PA, but everything else she is doing is as an involved and caring friend. Wish it hadn't crossed over but that's water under the bridge.<p>I'm very encouraged because I am meeting her need for support and friendship I am giving her strength and stability. We decided to call it "steadfast love" that will endure even in the storm in which we find ourselves.<p>We've had our arguments and fights about this, but in the end it's not a marriage killer in my book. Haven't we all made our mistakes in life? I have (not A's, but consumed by work and ignoring my W and family for too long). This is all readjusting my sights on what's important and I'm getting in good physical shape and spending a lot more time with my youngest kids (oldest has 1.5 feet out the door and into her life). <p>And yes JL I think she does see what's happened but hasn't asked and I'm not volunteering specifics except to say her mom is caring for an old friend because he's been abandoned by his family. Lying was never tolerated in our family, so I won't lie to them about this if they ask. But I might not tell all.<p>Thanks for all your wishes.
Paul

Now she needs my shoulder and no judgements or extra pressure - only my unreserved love and support. Of course I let her know I can't support the PA, but everything else she is doing is as an involved and caring friend. Wish it hadn't crossed over but that's water under the bridge.<p>That is very strong and good of you. But, you have to know that even without the PA, that her actions are more than "an involved and caring friend." Her actions seems quite apparently based on love that would likely still be physical if not for his condition.<p>I'm very encouraged because I am meeting her need for support and friendship I am giving her strength and stability. We decided to call it "steadfast love" that will endure even in the storm in which we find ourselves.<p>Be careful about getting your hopes up to much. Things will likely get worse before they get better. You wife is currently "loving" another man more than you or her family. She is addicted to what she is getting from the OM and his situation. Some time soon, she will no longer have access to that drug and her withdrawals will be devistating. She may even take it out on you and her family.<p>Lying was never tolerated in our family, so I won't lie to them about this if they ask. But I might not tell all.<p>I won't tell you what to do but a lie of omission is as painful and harmful as a blatant and outright lie. Most of my wife's lies were lies of omission. They cause me as much pain today as any lie she said to my face. If your children figure this out on their own, and you avoided the chance to be honest with them, be prepared for them to blame you and to take out their negative feelings on you. Like you said, they may figure it out on their own. Once they do, it is too late to do any sort of damage control. Your ability to shape the truth will be lost. They may not want to believe anything you tell them about it from then on.<p>Best of luck to you in dealing with both situations.

a bit more on lies of ommision. If your wife was leaving you entirely (which is always a possibility - you must know that), you can bet your children would be pissed if you did not tell them until your wife was out the door. That lie of ommision would have been just as painful as if they asked and you denied it outright.

Mr. Bunky:
Thanks very much for your insights. You are showing me angles I hadn't considered. But then this whole trip has been a surprise to me. I never would have expected or suspected events would unfold in my life this way.<p>I'll watch out for the kids and try and do damage control.<p>When it's over I do expect her to be devistated for the death and the end of A and perhaps guilt and feelings about what she's done to her family. I am trying to minimize the last so she has to deal with death and end of A.<p>How else can I give her the support she needs. Don't we all need a supporting shoulder and safe port in the storm? I do have conflicts here, but feel compelled to protect her with the safe harbor. She is not confiding in anyone else (except OM for some things).<p>Thanks for your thoughts and encouragement.
Paul

That is one of the tough choices you must make - how much support...<p>If one of your kids was to get in trouble (due to their own behavior) for something that would cause them some short term financial hardship - what would you do? Would you suffer their consequences for them; make it less of a learning experience by paying the debt, or would you let them learn and grow through their pain and consequences? Obviously, there is no right or wrong answer. Your wife NEEDS to suffer the consequences of her behavior otherwise she will not learn anything from this experience and it would be easy for her to do such again. She needs to feel pain and hardship to grow. Too much support by you creates an enabling process for her. At the same time, no support at all can cause her to feel consequences that are not necessary for her growth (feelings of suicide, poor health, manic depression, etc).<p>The tough part will always be knowing when your support causes more harm than good. I think we BS have a tendancy to provide more support than we should out of a desperation to win back the love of our spouse. In turn, instead of winning back that love, we either support their continued adulterous behavior or we don't allow them to grow by experiencing the consequences.<p>[ April 19, 2002: Message edited by: Mr. Bunky ]</p>

Paul,<p>Mr. B has touched on something that I think needs to be further expanded. Apart from the fine line with the W, there is a fine line within yourself you need to consider.<p>If you give selflessly and sort of fall on your sword to create a good environment for your W to come back to, for the most part it won't be appreciated until the affair is over. However, when doing this people often build up hugh resentments. Your W expects resentment now, but if she comes back and wants to rebuild your resentment will be a hugh stumbling block.<p>So what do you do?? You must walk a fine line, of setting boundaries and looking inward to sense when resentment is building. This resentment must be addressed before it becomes too much to deal with. <p>One of the major points Harley makes is that self-sacrifice often leads to the end of the marriage because it leads to resentment. Hence the POJA approach, the total honesty approach, the concept of time together. Communications is important and it is as important for you to be honest with your W as it is for her to be honest with you. <p>If you are feeling resentment, you need to address it now. It should be brought to your W's attention in as non-LB way as possible. <p>I realize that you are in this for the long haul. I also realize that you know the affair will end, probably within a year. I also know you realize that what happens afterwards is liable to be harder than what you are going through now.<p>Still with all of that, the odds are higher that you will eventually want out of this marriage than your W. And the main reason this is so is: resentment. So to give you and your marriage the best chance, don't fall on your sword to fix this. Set boundaries, communicate, and be honest with your W. Interestingly, self-sacrifice is not a highly revered quantity in this mess. I would have thought it was until I came here 3 years ago.<p>With that idea in mind go back and read some of Harley's material again. I think you will see that threaded throughout his writing. You need to face your own short falls, you need to give the WS time, you need to set boundaries, you need to avoid LB's, but you shouldn't fall on your sword.<p>Some things to consider. You seem to be doing a great job of this. Hang in there.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

Excellent point about self-sacrifice. I just made a note to talk to my wife about such. I enabled her for three weeks (all I could do of plan A) and I harbor huge amounts of resentment that I have been unable to process and get rid of so far.<p>It is such a difficult feeling and situation to love your wife so much and despise her at the same time. We are knee deep in recovery but my resentment is a huge stumbling block and one I am not sure how we can resolve.<p>Perhaps I just picked out my next topic for my individual counseling session.<p>Thanks again JL!