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Well, strong feelings both ways!<p>I ask because WS talks about it lots. <p>Supposedly, he read a journal entry of mine where I said that my ex-boyfriend was my soulmate. This was written a few months before meeting my H and I haven't spoken to the ex-boyfriend in 10 years.<p>Still, my H feels that he has been chasing this guy our whole relationship. I never called H my soul mate, mainly because I wasn't sure of its existence or definition. I was absolutely drawn to him and we both looked at each other on the same day (we shared this later - didn't know at the time) and said to ourselves "I am going to marry that person."<p>So my H decided that I was going to visit old boyfriend and then used this information to get OW to finally propostion him. He went to a hotel, checked in, claims he changed his mind, came out to tell OW he couldn't do it and came home.<p>Now skip through all of the other stuff, D-day, assault, reconciliation, etc. I have heard constantly how I am pining for my soulmate, exBoyfriend. I am not. I think fondly of him, wish him well, would like to hear how he is doing but I chose my H over ex a long time ago.<p>Now he is onto the "Are we soul mates?" kick. This comes at a time when he has almost completely stopped working on the marriage.<p>I wrote a letter to him, not sure if I am going to give it to him but I think this is all just an excuse. <p>Please read my soul mate section of the letter and provide input (see my next post on this topic). The article I am referring to is in the April 2002 issue of O magazine (Oprah), putting down the idea of soul mates.
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One minute he cannot live without me. The next I am free to go and not his soul mate. Here is the first part of the letter. *****************************************<p>Dearest H,<p>I wanted to write to you about several issues. The first is the issue of soul mates. Please read the attached article and then continue reading this letter.<p>I was struck in the article by the notion that the idea of cosmic, destined soul mates are possibly erroneous and a belief in soul mates correlate with bad outcomes.<p>I have wondered if your preoccupation with soul mates is an excuse to avoid the hard work of the marriage. I don’t mean that to sound judgmental. We all try to avoid the hard work sometimes. At the very least, I think you should examine whether it is even something you truly believe in, how sure you are and how important it is to you. I have been examining my belief system.<p>Pretend that a reliable authority told you that, “No, your wife is not your soul mate.” Would it change your feelings for me? If the same authority said, “Yes, she is definitely your soul mate” would you THEN want to work on the marriage, show me love and meet my needs, make good on all of your promises? Would I be worthy of your love then? Is that what you are waiting for? Someone to tell you it is OK to waste energy on me because, after all, I am your soul mate?<p>I was also struck by the author’s description of her first husband and current love. That sounds good – those loves. I would love to feel so certain, so perfect, so together and unified that I knew “no man (or woman) could put us asunder” again. I would love to feel grateful for every bit of happiness.<p>Maybe a definition of a soul mate is that one person who challenges us to be our best. Some theorists believe that it isn’t necessarily always our spouses; it may be our child, parent, mentor, friend - someone who always pushes or inspires us to be a better person. It isn’t necessarily always a harmonious relationship either. They are challenging us after all!<p>Old MC kept saying to me “Well, that is why you are in his life. You challenge him to be a better person.” or “You bring him God” or “You tell him his sh*t stinks.” (Lovely, huh?) Maybe we have a purpose in each other’s lives.<p>Harville Hendrix, the “Getting The Love You Want” author, says that we seek out mates who remind us of our parents’ good, neutral and bad qualities, trying to recreate that situation in order to be healed. Maybe a soul mate is that one person who creates something in us that we love and admire but also recreates this childhood scenario for us. Maybe his theory proves that there is no soul mate and only automated responses to try to heal oneself. Maybe that ability to heal is what is special in itself.<p>Maybe soul mates are man-made, blessed by God, built from hard work and love and commitment. Maybe you fall in love and then work from there to tie yourselves to each other’s souls forever.<p>When you decided that I wasn’t your soul mate, (July 2000, right before DD #1 & I flew home) and that you were open to meeting yours, did that improve your life? Did looking elsewhere for that “perfect” someone make your life better? <p>Was OW your soul mate? Because she told you what you wanted to hear and presented a false self, was she everything you ever wanted in a woman? Because she listened in on our conversations and then used them to turn you against me, did that make your “soulful connection” real?<p>You mentioned that you wonder if we do separate, would we get back together and if that would mean that we are soul mates. Could that just mean we are dysfunctional or co-dependent? What more do you want? Do you want to go through another affair, assault, and suicide threat or attempt and see if we reach out to each other again? Are you saying that we haven’t been tested enough? Do we need death or dismemberment too? A revenge affair on my part?<p>You keep saying things like “If I could wave a magic wand and take away all of your pain…” or “If I could go back in time…” The point is that you can’t. There is no magic solution here. There is only hard work, commitment, self-reflection, incredible vulnerability and a deep commitment to MOVE MOUNTAINS to get what you say you want, a happy marriage with me. <p>There is no time machine. Our marriage is tainted. Our lives are tainted. Forever. Those who know will probably always view us differently for this mess. We no longer have an image to uphold or the smugness of saying “It can’t or didn’t happen to me.” It did. We will always know and remember. Can you look at me everyday and live with that? Can we build from the rubble or is it a lost cause? Can we build something great or shall we let the rodents and spiders take over our home, our lives, our marriage, our life?<p>I don’t know how many people in the world can make us truly happy. I just know once upon a time I thought my heart would jump out of my chest when I saw you or you touched me. Sometimes I feel that way now.<p>I know I was drawn to you, that I wanted to give you a chance even when you said or did things I would find intolerable in others. I also know that you have caused me the deepest, most disturbing pain I have ever experienced. You have caused such deep pain that at times I cannot exhale and feel my heart will stop, often hoping it will stop. Yet, you do not do things to try to help me heal.<p>*********************************************** I went into non-related soul mate stuff from there. Thoughts?
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Betty,<p>I thought it was AWESOME!!!!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] Complete raw truth and nothing but. Excellent.
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Thanks Conqueror. <p>Is it lovebusting though?
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If the truth is lovebusting, then so be it!!!!! You just opened up your soul to him, that is how IMHO people become soulmates, by sharing their own soul with someone else. I think that is why married people have to be so careful not to communicate on such a level with friends/aquaintances of the opposite sex. I bet I could call ten guys I know right now and at some point connect on a soulmate level with every one of them, if they happen to be in the mood/searching for that type of intimacy at the same time as me. I think reserving that type of interaction for our spouse is essential. I think probably the original attraction is part of the soulmate thing, and if its growth gets stunted for any reason, it doesnt get fully developed. I think mature love is what the soulmate thing is REALLY about. If we dont let it mature with our spouse we will crave it and try to find it elsewhere. I saw soulmate interaction in emails between H and OW. I would LOVE to have H open himself to me that way. NEVER has. It is as if I am deliberatly denied the very intimacy that creates the soulmate bond, he is punishing me for being in the way of his desire to seek relationships with certain other women. I loved the straightforwardness of your letter.
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Lor (Lor): <strong><p>Then, what about when they meet up with, what would it be, the 3rd, 4th part of the soulmate? And cheats on or dumps the first soulmate? Who'd be stupid enough to realize and say they have a soulmate and cheat on them?<p>[ April 18, 2002: Message edited by: Lor (Lor) ]</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I didn't say it makes perfect sense lol. And having that connection certainly doesn't guarantee lifelong bliss, but it may well be what will bring you back together if you do come apart. Even when my H was saying "I'm not sure if I love you anymore" he was also saying "But you will always be the one, the most special..." How's that for fog! I know that my best friend cheated on her H and in she said "I don't know what happened that I lost sight of what I had. He's always been the one for me, no one else could even come close."
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Do soulmates exist? I have no idea.<p>I don't believe in them in the sense that the term is used nowadays.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Is it some sort of cosmic, destiny issue or a good match made stronger through dedication and hard work?<hr></blockquote><p>No, it's not some sort of cosmic destiny issue although people (in general) believe it is. I believe the term "soul mate" and being "in love" are interchangeable in todays society. For there to be some cosmic destiny involved, there would have to be a higher power or greater force involved and I just don't believe that a higher power would hurt so many for the destiny of two. It would also insinuate that these two people have absolutely no control over their actions because a higher power is guiding them. I think it's a CROCK. <p>IMHO, to hear-tell, soul mates are a dime a dozen and can be found around every corner. The term or concept is used most flippantly from what I can tell. How many times have you heard someone say..."Well, I was with so-n-so and I thought HE was my soulmate, but then so-n-so came along and I'm sure HE is my soulmate". It seems that if someone bumps into someone else and the two find that they both like cheeseburgers w/out onions, love the movie Terminator, like sex in such-n-such position and have both always wanted to go to Greece....well, then....they are soulmates.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Is this just a myth or misconception that hinders the real work of marriages.......<hr></blockquote><p>EUREKA!!!!!!!!! <p>I really believe the term soulmate is used by most people (especially if married and referring to a 3rd person) to fall back on when sparks are flying over yonder and and they know they have an attachment here. I think it's a myth used as an excuse mostly.<p>I think if soulmates are real, the concept has been so distorted, skewed, overused and abused over time that it's very difficult for me to believe in.<p>selket
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Sorry, Betty, I only read it with my soul glasses. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] I'll go over it again with my LB glasses on.<p>[QUOTE]Originally posted by nursebetty: <strong>I have wondered if your preoccupation with soul mates is an excuse to avoid the hard work of the marriage. I don't mean that to sound judgmental. We all try to avoid the hard work sometimes. At the very least, I think you should examine whether it is even something you truly believe in, how sure you are and how important it is to you. I have been examining my belief system.</strong><p>This paragraph could probably use some tweaking. Usually when we feel the need to put a disclaimer, it's because we suspect it will come across a certain way and it probably will. Maybe something more on the lines of:<p>You've talked about soulmates several times, and I wonder if you truly believe in the concept and how important that belief is to you. I have been examining my own belief system, and one of my conclusions is that marriage requires a lot of hard work and effort from both partners, and human nature being what it is, we all tend to look for an easier way to do things.<p><strong>Pretend that a reliable authority told you that, "No, your wife is not your soul mate." Would it change your feelings for me? </strong><p>Please indulge me for a moment, and pretend.... is less demanding.<p><strong> If the same authority said, "Yes, she is definitely your soul mate" would you THEN want to work on the marriage, show me love and meet my needs,</strong><p>Might be better to stop there because the following is more confrontational.<p><strong> make good on all of your promises? Would I be worthy of your love then? Is that what you are waiting for? Someone to tell you it is OK to waste energy on me because, after all, I am your soul mate?</strong><p><strong>Was OW your soul mate? Because she told you what you wanted to hear and presented a false self, was she everything you ever wanted in a woman? Because she listened in on our conversations and then used them to turn you against me, did that make your "soulful connection" real?</strong><p>I'd leave the OW out of it. You don't want to validate her or their R, and anything that can be interpreted as criticism seems to always make the H jump to her defense, inwardly if not outwardly. I think it's better to always maintain an "above it all" stance with the OW, and if that's not possible, then a victim stance to her perpetrator-ness. Never come across in a way that he can see her as a victim and come to her rescue.<p>Maybe a more general discussion of these types of interactions not specific to him and the OW:<p>I've noticed that some people are very good at reading others and because of that can appear to know you better than you know yourself and sometimes that can feel like an instant "soulmate"-type of connection.<p>You can probably do a better job than that, but you get the general idea. He may still see the oblique reference to the OW, but at least it's not a frontal attack.<p><strong>You mentioned that you wonder if we do separate, would we get back together and if that would mean that we are soul mates. Could that just mean we are dysfunctional or co-dependent?</strong><p>I think also is less confrontational than just in that last sentence.<p><strong>What more do you want?</strong><p>I'd leave out more.<p><strong>Do you want to go through another affair, assault, and suicide threat or attempt and see if we reach out to each other again? Are you saying that we haven't been tested enough?</strong><p>I think the above is enough. The sentences that follow are more inflammatory and also redundant because affair is already mentioned above, and if you change the first sentence to read:<p>Do you want us to go through...<p>then it should be clear that any of those things can happen to either one of you. Hopefully he's intelligent enough to figure out that you also are vulnerable to having an A. At least I'd think someone who's done it themselves SHOULD know it could happen!<p><strong>Do we need death or dismemberment too? A revenge affair on my part?</strong><p><strong>You keep saying things like </strong><p>You have said things like is more respectful and less confrontational.<p><strong>There is only hard work, commitment, self-reflection, incredible vulnerability and a deep commitment to MOVE MOUNTAINS to get what you say you want, a happy marriage with me.</strong><p>to get what we both want, a happy marriage together.<p>I think it helps anytime you can make things look like a team issue that you are equal partners in, plus it reinforces your connection to each other.<p><strong>Our marriage is tainted. Our lives are tainted. Forever. </strong><p>Our marriage is damaged and Our lives are changed forever sound more hopeful and less condemning.<p><strong>Those who know will probably always view us differently for this mess.</strong><p>Probably better to leave out for this mess since he could interpret it as this mess that YOU made and just go into defense mode and stop listening.<p><strong> Can we build something great or shall we let the rodents and spiders take over our home, our lives, our marriage, our life?</strong><p>Good visual imagery, but probably too much for a reluctant WS. Maybe:<p>Shall we let our home, our lives, our marriage, the life we built together remain in ruins, or will you work with me so that together we can rebuild something great and wonderful?<p><strong>Yet, you do not do things to try to help me heal.</strong><p>Yet, so far, I am not getting what I need from you to help me heal.<p>Anything I didn't lift out and critique I thought was great. Whatever you can do to present your case as a request along with an offer to carry your weight in the R is usually the best way to go. Probably anything that can be seized on to make it feel like an attack or judgment will be, and then they have the perfect excuse to ignore and discount all of it.<p>[ April 19, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>
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Conqueror, thank you so much for your thoughtful reply and all of the effort that went into it. I knew I needed someone to soften it. I may still reference OW as he never defends her. He feels incredibly stupid for becoming involved with someone he would not normally even associate with.<p>I know he would never think that she is a soul mate but he was struck by how she always "just knew" when to bring up certain subjects and what to say (she was listening in on our phone conversations and then magically appeared to support his position completely and tell him how great he is.) I wanted to illustrate how wrong one can be about someone.<p>The problem is that I don't know if I will get it finished and give it to him before I leave tomorrow. Actually, he has been a little better last night and today. He says he cannot bear to think that I am going to be gone so will refuse to think about it until I leave tomorrow.
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Here's another article on soulmates that I thought you might enjoy...<p> "Soul Mates-- What are the chances of marrying our soul mate?" By: Sheri and Bob Stritof <p>The notion of "soul mates" has been around a very, very long time. However, there are several viewpoints as to how to describe "soul mates"... even on how to spell it! Some spell the term as a whole word, soulmate and others, including us, prefer to keep it as two words, soul mate. <p> Some believe that a soul mate is someone with whom a person has shared other lifetimes through reincarnation. The soul mate could be a friend, business partner, parent, child, sibling, spouse or other family member. These soul mates can be of the same or opposite sex.<p>Others believe, like the ancient Greek philosopher Plato, that a soul mate is a person's "other half". This concept was the basis of the movie, The Butcher's Wife where the idea of "split-aparts" searching for one another was explored. People all over the world believe that we are all searching for someone to make us whole and to share our journey of life with. <p>The movie Still Breathing examines the thought that people are drawn together as soul mates by destiny or fate and that being with our soul mate is something we have no control over. This idea of predestination and connection even after death between soul mates was also examined in the movie What Dreams May Come. <p>Most believe that soul mates can accept and love every part of the other's personality and that life with a soul mate is easy and natural. <p>Richard Bach describes soul mates as "A soulmate is someone who has the locks to fit our keys, and the keys to fit our locks. When we feel safe enough to open the locks, our truest selves step out and we can be completely and honestly who we are; we can be loved for who we are and not for who we're pretending to be... Our soulmate is someone who shares our deepest longings, our sense of direction... Our soulmate is the one who makes life come to life."<p>Thomas Moore describes a soul mate as "someone to whom we feel profoundly connected, as though the communication and communing that take place between us were not the product of intentional efforts, but rather a divine grace. This kind of relationship is so important to the soul that many have said there is nothing more precious in life."<p>A dictionary definition is: One of two persons compatible with each other in disposition, point of view, or sensitivity. Someone for whom you have a deep affinity . A person temperamentally suited to another. <p>We don't believe a soul mate is the ideal or one and only person in someone's life. Our definition of soul mates is people who together want to work on making their marriage a great one. Their relationship feels like a natural fit, and although they need to work on their marriage, it is not hard to do. When soul mates first meet, there is an immediate sense of being at ease and connected. A partnership of two soul mates should be able to handle challenging times well because they are in tune to one another, they are each willing to take responsibility for their role in contributing to the conflict, and they are both committed to making the marriage a successful one.<p>Although we think the chances of someone marrying their soul mate is very good, many people have probably already married their soul mates and simply don't realize it. There is some danger in believing in the concept of soul mates. If a person starts looking for perfection in their spouse, or thinks that everything in their relationship should immediately click and that there won't be any problems, they are setting themselves up for a dose of heavy disillusionment. There can be temptation to bail out of an unhappy marriage because the spouse isn't a soul mate. Some think that marrying their soul mate will mean a life free from hard times and conflict. That's not reality. <p>If you think you've not married your soul mate, don't just walk away from the relationship for that reason alone. Spend some time getting to know yourself a bit better first. You can't find your soul mate if you haven't found yourself. <p>Peace, ~Marie
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Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, the Boogey Man, the Soul Mate.<p>All very real until you grow up and realize that things aren't as they seem. All very real until you know the truth. All very real until you accept reality.<p>IMHO soul mate is a romantized idea but I don't believe there is any fact to it. What if you live in Boise, Idaho and your soul mate lives in London, England - how will you meet and connect? So you marry a man you met in high shool - are you then doomed to be unhappy because your soul mate didn't find you?
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