Hi SC,
I'm sorry I've been incommuncado..it's been really busy and I've had no time to myself to write.
Have you made any decisions regarding going forward with this? Is your W continuing to tell you that there's been no contact? What makes you so sure that there is contact. (I swear I won't hold it against you if you've been spying...we have to do what we have to do.) Would you mind giving me a brief update?<p>Does she say that she's quit all contact? and has no plans to ever get in touch with OM again? or is she evading the question? <p>I look forward to any update!
AS

Space,<p>You know the vampire legend ... the vampire cannot enter your home unless he is *invited*....<p>Do NOT let your confused & foggy WW invite the vampire into your home, your children's home.<p>I really do not give a rat's pattootie about whether or not WW will be pissed at you for exposing her deception to the prison authorities ... there is something far greater at stake here ...(get it ... vampire @ stake [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ) ... the safety and sanctity of your home and children are at risk if this person is allowed into your lives! ... If your confused & foggy WW left an open jar of honey inside your open front door, and a bunch of hornets were about to enter your home ... you'd close the dang door ... no matter how angry WW might get.
Right???<p>Priorities apply here Spacecadet .... for Pepper, this is a no-brainer. Keep dangerous people out of your home. This is not just an OM you're dealing with here ... this is a felon!!!!!!!!!!!!!<p>Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Ashirley;
Well, I haven't done any "serious" snooping lately, but here's what I know. She continues to have and use the calling cards for no good reason, she continues to hide her cell phone statements, she called 2 lady friends she had made at the prison (ladies who's hubbys are inmates), where she has stayed overnight close to the prison, and I can't imagine any reason to do that unless she was planning a trip there while in FL, she has told me "I'm going on this trip because I need to get away, so although I will be at our friends' house, I WILL take a day to go out on my own and not talk to anyone", so it's too many coincidences so close to her trip there for my taste.<p>She says there is and has been no contact for "some time", she does NOT say there never will be, and she takes it VERY badly any time I ask about this, and she avoids answering.<p>Ashirley, mostly, I just know. I can feel it. Besides, if it were true that contact has ended, then why would she be so reluctant to demonstrate it as she has for many months? It would be very easy; a letter to the prison requesting she be removed from the call/visit/correspondence list for this inmate. Done. Her excuse for not doing it? "because you ask me to do it". And when I've said "YOU find a way to demonstrate it, any way that is credible" she says she will, has said she will probably 10 times....and I'm still waiting. And if i DARE ask about it, she goes off on a tirade that "the only thing you will ever believe is if I write that letter to the warden and nothing else is good enough for you, nothing I do is ever good enough!!!"<p>Need I say more?<p>[ April 30, 2002: Message edited by: Spacecase ]<p>[ April 30, 2002: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</p>

No, SC, you needn't.<p>Make the call, protect your family. If your W gets tweaked irrevocably, you know what to do next. (but I bet she won't for long).

Thank you Pepper, especially for the Cadet part [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] , and 2Long; I suppose you mean Plan B...right?<p>Well, I had my first session with Steve this morning (I just haven't had time to post about it yet) but he says to hold off for a bit....so stay tuned, the saga continues....<p>Thanks for all the support! This is a wonderful group of folks!

SC,
You don't seem extremely concerned about the fact that your W is meeting other wives of prisoners; and that she's having an EA with a felon. Can't you drive this point a bit more home and tell her that you are concerned/afraid for her safety as well as your safety and the kids safety. I think I'd be harping about just the fact that she's becoming friends with a less than reputable segment of society. (Am I a HUGE snob...if so, I'm sorry. This element of your story that I have so much trouble relating to. It's bad enough that your wife's having an EA, but with a prisoner...don't you find that offensive and worrisome? again, forgive me if I have offended you or anyone else, I guess I'm doing some pretty serious sterotyping? or is there some validity in my concern?

Hi SC,
Are you going to comment on my comment?
AS

Sorry AS, I just now saw your post.<p>Well, I've had to think about this. See, for me, the fact that he's a federal inmate, and all the "felon" side, security, and all that have really been secondary to my primary concern; saving my M and getting my W back. At least at first, I didn't really think about that part of it at all. I guess this is the BSs version of "the fog".<p>It's only been over the last few weeks that it really hit home that, hey, this is a criminal, a potentially dangerous criminal, with criminal friends and activities which could jeopardize the safety of my W and family. I started thinking about the obvious; like he "pushed" her to lie on the visitor form, to say she is "his sister" so they'd approve it more easily, and finding out that this is a crime. So that's when I really started exploring the "legal" side of this to see if/how I could try to protect her, my kids, myself. Which prompted the posts, consultation with attorneys, etc.<p>Really, I knew this almost from the start because this was written in one of the first letters he sent her back in 11/00, supposedly when this all got started (although I'm having second thoughts about the veracity of that; in those very early letters, he's already talking about "our plans", "my love", etc. so I'm thinking this got started before she says it did). Anyway, I could have really done what we've been talking about in this post many months ago. I just felt she had to end it, and that interfering would make any reconciliation somehow "fake", kind of like the same way I feel witholding financial support in Plan B; if she comes back to me because she can't make it financially on her own, that's not good. I think if I ever go to Plan B I would still support her financially if she needed it.<p>I'm rambling. The answer to your question is this. If I now bring up the security thing, that he's a criminal, etc. she will just think it's a ploy, a desperate ploy I'm playing since I've seen the M, family, our love, have not been sufficient to bring her back to me, so it would appear fake and contrived. Besides, she just does not care about that...isn't it obvious? She is totally ignoring the fact that this guy is a felon...none of her actions in any way show she considers that an issue at all, she doesn't even consider the fact that he's still in for 8 more years an issue...too much fog for her to see any of this right now, I think.<p>Very very sad. I hurt for her, I can't imagine what has possessed her to do what she has done, and continues to do...baffles me!

I just want to add one thing; This guy is a man she knew as a teenager, dated and had sex with at the time (25+ years ago), she knows his family, sister, etc.
I'm not excusing her, or feel that this is a good enough reason to consort with a criminal, but I can see how that would blur the distinction between a regular guy and a federal inmate in her mind. Maybe a bit in my mind too...at least until recently.

Well, I got the wind knocked out of my sails today...a couple of days ago I posted:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> My attorney says we can report this, get WW off of call/mail/visit lists at prison, pretty much disable all comm w/OM. (and it'll stay that way practically forever. As far as the Bureau Of Prisons (BOP) is concerned, she'll be Persona Non Grata) However, there is a SMALL risk of her bieng prosecuted for this. Lying on the "visitor Form" is tantamount to perjury. BUT, he has NEVER heard of anyone being prosecuted for this unless they lied in order to "facilitate the furtherance of a criminal activity" or some such law-speak. The risk of either of them ever finding out I was involved is very slim as well. My info would be treated as that of a "confidential informant".<p> <hr></blockquote><p>Well, my "second opinion" came in today and it's not good. THIS attorney says that several things can happen, and a few definitely will.<p>What will happen:
-My WW will be taken off of every form of communication with the OM practically forever.
-The OM will be thrown into "the hole" probably for 30 days
-Nobody will really know what happened; there will be an internal inquiry, and not even his attny will be able to speak with him during that time, and will never be able to know where the "inquiry" came from.
-US Marshalls WILL interview my W about this
-The OMs attny, who faxed the letter to my W where the OM told her to falsify the info on the visitor form will be questioned, possibly disciplined, possibly prosecuted.<p>What Could happen:
-The BOP could prosecute my W if the OM and his other buddies (inside or out) are involved in any type of hanky-panky business, in which case she will be named as a co-conspirator, even if she was not aware of the hanky-panky.<p>Apparently after 9/11 things have gotten pretty tough in the federal prison system due to the investigations of "stuff" going on b/w inmates and attnys, connections to terrorism, etc. So they're not as lax as they were before, and they are paranoid of anything that might make them look like they are being lax, or anything that might happen for which they can later be blamed (remember the visas the INS approved for the 2 dead terrorists?)<p>Anyway, I'm not so sure I'd be willing to take some of the risks involved. What will the children think if US Marshalls drag mom out of here? What if the OM IS involved in something funny unbeknownst to my W and they prosecute her as a co-conspirator? And who knows what other harrasment we may be subject to by coming to the attention of the feds...I just don't know...how can she not see any of this! How can she not see the threat this is to our kids? How could she do this?<p>I can't do that to her. If she went to prison or something like that I'd never forgive myself, my kids would never forgive me, god knows what could happen to her there...I can't do this. I care for her too much, it hurts too much...what good could come of it? I'd probably lose her AND she'd be in prison...she might as well go with the OM...

Bummer! That's a lot to digest!
AS