H called this morning and said he'd probably come by around 6:00 or 7:00 tonight before his hockey game at 8:00. I take D to music every Saturday morning and then we have lunch. Today was such a beautiful day that after lunch, we went home and I mowed the lawn (first time) while D played in the sandbox. Apparently, H had tried to call many times both on cell and at home but did not leave a message UNTIL 6:00 which I immediately returned.<p>D was sleeping (catnap) and I was making supper. Well, H asks me why I hadn't called him etc. etc. and I asked him sternly if he had left a message ALL those other times he called. He said no but I should have called earlier. I said, leave a message and I'll return it. He called me a "miserable c***"...and hung up. I'm trying to set some boundaries. My D experienced some awful trauma with my H's going home yesterday I'm just not up to all of this. <p>Did I deserve that? Does anyone? Isn't that considered verbal abuse? It's terrible and hateful...he does hate me right now. <p>I'm not trying to keep him from his daughter.

Terrified:<p>If your daughter was married to a man who treated her like this -- what would you tell her to do?

Well, I've been going through the exact same thing with my WH for the past 7 months and this is what I've learned.<p>When the WH has never had any boundaries in the past and thinks the world revolves around them, they act like a 2 year old when you start to set boundaries.<p>Of course he called you a name, because you weren't there at his beck and call. And of course they NEVER leave messages - well at least my WH didn't at first, but now he knows that if he doesn't leave a message, he doesn't get a call back and I don't know that he's tried to call.<p>It will take some time for the WH to adjust, but I guess they do adjust eventually, however, my WH still gets upset when I assert my boundaries.<p>I think he's not used to it, and until we're divorced I think they think we're still "theirs" to control.<p>Keep strong and uphold those boundaries. And don't apologize for having them.<p>K

Dear PB, Of course, I'd tell her to get rid of the jerk. Just wonder why I sometimes feel like he's right, like I deserve this criticism. I know I'm not any of the names he calls me but why is he so cruel to someone he once claimed to have loved so much?<p>Dear GIC, Yes, a 2-year old is exactly the behaviour my H demonstrates. Although thankfully, 2 year olds don't have the language. <p>Since we're not legally separated or divorced, when does this get easier? <p>Thanks to both of you for your replies.

Terrified, I just got the book THe Emotionally Abused WOman on half.com and It is small and very helpful. Unfortunately... you are being verbally abused so am I. I am very impressed at your resiliance to the abuse... (I blow up back)
[img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] but anyway, your reaction of ignoring and passing it by is better.. but I am concerned about the pain it is causing you.<p>I think you could benefit from this book, it was suggested to me a few weeks back and yes, it is wonderful and it is helping me.<p>there is also a website , I think perhaps verbalabuse.com, you can search for it... maybe it is a bit differnt. <p>I am also impressed you mowed the lawn... my son and my dad have been doing it ... and I want to... unfortunately me and my son have trouble starting the mower- we are thinking of getting a new one we can start easier!~ [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I applaud you for doing this! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I just want to say, I know what it is like to be verbally abused, and it is very destructive. He wants to be one up on you... and don't worry he will call the ow these same types of things ev entually if he does not receive some help. I hope he can get help, and I know the boundaries are a good place to stop them. <p>I would politely say I must hang up when you use abusive langauge, so goodbye. Are you documenting the abuse in a notebook , and try to get it on recorder... too just in case... I need to do the same. this type of man will not think twice about trying to make you look like a bad mother to take your d... if he is cornered or feels that way... be careful, and document his abuse and anything you can about the a... and escpically the abuse... maybe document a bit... record especially... before you start hanging up.... <p>I warn you... my h gets more abusive sometimes when I have to hang up. It is a war... and yes... he USED TO BE wonderful to ME... but NOW HE IS NOT>.. NEITHER IS YOUR H.<p>I am so sorry for this abuse. My heart goes out to you. I was put down today on the phone too when we had contact about our 3 yr. old on the phone. it hurts so much.<p>Hugs to you. H has my younger baby for the night... and I am worried because of the drinking... my older son and I are going out to mexican. We had a garage sale today and raked in $100... not a whole lot... but doing it again tomorrow... it is fun to get rid of stuff and make a bit of money ... and really got my mind off of HIM.<p>I am just so sorry we are both here. <p>Hugs, HONEY

Oops... did you Lb... no, it sounds that you were polite... do you have caller id... or does he just expect esp? Tell him you don't want to call and bother him unneccesarily. It sounds like you were polite and this is one of those times.. he just was out to be angry regardless... he DOES SOUND CONTROLLING.. and this stems from low self esteem.. He is angry he cannot control you.<p>Hugs, HOney

Hi Terri ~<p>Remember a week or so ago when I said to you that your H would go button hunting when he discovered that your buttons were missing as a result of your new found strength, boundaries and control of your emotions?<p>This is it.<p>He's looking for your buttons.<p>Don't let him find them. Remain calm and polite and keep your boundaries. You are NOT at his beck and call. You are right, if he wants to talk to you, then he should do what any other person does - leave a message.<p>Next time he calls you a name, calmly say you'll talk to him when he is calmer and then hang up the phone.

Don't allow him to make you feel guilty. Just because you were in your yard and didn't hear the phone (or chose not to hear it [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ), is irrelevant. Remember that. If you had been out at a friends house, or shopping, etc... would you have heard the phone then??? Maybe you would have gone to see a movie with your dd, and you would have your cell phone turned off out of courtesy, and then forgot to turn it back on. So what? You're human.<p>As far as your H goes... he is being an ignorant and spoiled little child. And his temper tantrums are getting to ALL of us. I know when any of my kids throw one of their 'mega moods', I just ignore them. If they don't stop, then I put them in their room and tell them, "You can cry all you want in here. There's nothing wrong with crying. However, "I" don't want to hear it. You can come back out again when the crying stops".<p>Hmmm... your H acting like a 2 yr old is even MORE correct now, eh? [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Karen

Terri,
I have not been reading all of your post, but when I scan & see the titles I get the jest that your H's basic attitude has not changed. I have not read through all of this one and had to reply.
IMHO, your dear H needs a straight jacket & I believe you are honestly going to be a lot better off when you get him out of your life! Things could change and we all are pulling for you because we know the pian you have gone through.
I believe you handled it pretty well.
I am a Christian man & a non violent person, but honestly the way he treats you makes my blood boil & I am almost embarassed to admit this, but ... I believe your H needs a good ole fashion Axx Kicking, big time!! Enough is enough!
This is absolutley terrible to say and goes against all counseling theries I am sure and I know it is not practical, but I wish there were some way you could protect your D from his attitude!! I can not imagine how his self-centered, manipulative, mean spirited atttitude could not help but ultimately be a big negative influence on your daughter that could take years of counseling to straighten out. I can only imagine that he works at brain washing her & setting up expectations to add to his control & she is too young to protect herself!
As far as I am concerned, I don't think you should worry about any LB's -- there I've got it off my chest!
I assume you keep these posts as a reference kind of diary? I believe you should have enough to seek help with some kind of restraining order -- ?? IMHO he is very, I mean very, abusive!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] You do not deserve such treatment!! He needs help -- I believe you could be deemed a battered person!<p>Hope you are coping?!
Best of Luck!
My prayers are with you!
HH<p>[ April 20, 2002: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>

First off, thanks for all your replies. <p>Second, blew it again today, I think. He called this morning with not even a Hello but "let me speak to D" which just sets me off. Two of my friends kids slept over last night so were were all having breakfast. <p>H says he'll be by at 11:00. I had agreed that he could stay at the house today while I went out. 11:00 comes and goes and he doesn't show up. He calls at 11:15. Says he's decided to take D somewhere because he doesn't feel like being here. I OVERreacted. Said he had to check with me if change of plans was okay. He said "pack a bag, her lunch and I'm going to take her somewhere...you don't need to know where...I say, NO WAY. I need to know." Of course, then it starts. I lose it. He loses it. He comes over. Angry. Me angry. I tell him he has to respect me or else I have no choice but to tell his parents the truth. H gets angrier. <p>All pretty sad. I hate myself when I act the way I do.<p>He attempts to rip up a beautiful picture of us. He stops. I tell him he'll regret it one day. He says that I'll regret what I've done to him one day. Back and forth. <p>Okay. He leaves with D. By this time, D wanted to leave to go out with Papa.<p>Honey, Yes, I am being verbally abused. I've gone to the verbalabuse.com website. Most of what they list, I've experienced. I'd love to hang up on my H but he generally beats me to it. He calls me a name and then hangs up.<p>Hi BR, Well, I didn't remain calm and polite today. Should have stopped myself. I HAVE to do better next time. Today again, I feel like my marriage is over. Today, he found my buttons.<p>H taunts me, "You have nothing left. You're scraping the bottle of the barrel. I'll never come back."<p>Topie, Thanks for checking in. Hope you're doing better. <p>Hi HH, It's good to hear from you. Well, you'd think from my H's comments that I need the strait jacket. Just told me today that he's perfectly in control. Thanks though for your vote of confidence.<p>HH, Honestly, he's very abusive. Just threw me on the floor today but maybe I provoked him with my threat of telling his parents of the affair. Not sure anymore. This now seems to be getting worse.

Then put a disclaimer at the beginning of your voicemail and let him that his conversations are being recorded. Is that allowed in your state? Check it out first and then if you can do it. <p>Record his verbal abuse, then you can play it for you or the counselor/lawyer as needed. Remember not to use this as a tool for revenge but you may need it as evidence to protect your family's interest. <p>Are U scrapping at the bottom of the barrel? No, not yet. That is where he is so you don't want to go there. See it is all in the perception when it comes to what he says. <p>Hugz,
L.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Terrified:
<strong>
HH, Honestly, he's very abusive. Just threw me on the floor today but maybe I provoked him with my threat of telling his parents of the affair. Not sure anymore. This now seems to be getting worse.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Terri,
Provoked or not - reasonable people do not throw others on the floor!!! No matter, you did not deserve this. I recall other almost if not mild physical abuse things from before -- from what I understand it could more esculated.
Does he see a counselor?
This would get expensive and perhaps a little wacky but how about a hidden video camera fro when he visits in the future?
Check out the legality of recorded line -- I am no Lawyer, but in a situation like this I don't think it would be a problem.
Prayers are with you!
Restraining order?
HUGS,
HH
PS -- it is easy to set up a recorder on your phine line -- go to a Radio Shack & it is inexpensive - couple jacks and a tape recorder.<p>[ April 21, 2002: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>

Hi O, I really love the idea of a disclaimer...but the recorder idea sounds even better. More transparent to anyone else who calls. I'm not even sure where to find out if it's legal in Canada. <p>Strangely enough, after the showdown, he becomes passive. ALMOST acts regretful. During the showdown, H ROARS that I better leave the garage door open because he's coming to get the rest of his stuff. I say no problem. We quiet down. He brushes against me to hug D. I have supper ready but not for him anymore. H leaves as we're about to start but it's understood that he's not invited to sit down. <p>H arrives at the apartment and calls about his hockey sticks that he left in the garage. Forgot that he has a hockey game and has to pick them up. Speaks as if nothing has happened today. I ask him if he's going to take the desk in the spare room and the old dresser. H says, No, I'm going to take everyting else except for your bedroom furniture (sarcastically). I don't react. He waits. Then he goes on to ask why I found it upsetting that he has an answering machine at the apartment. I tell him to forget I even mentioned it and hung up.<p>Then H calls after hockey game at 10:15 to see about D. She's screaming from an earache and hasn't been able to sleep. I end up taking her to urgent care. He comes too. While waiting, we talk "normal" couple talk??? Not initiated by me. Then he follows us home after midnight. D falls asleep in the car while making sure that Papa is behind us. H takes her out of the car and brings he upstairs. Then asks me if there's anything else I need before leaving. And quickly adds, "Lock the garage door after I leave."<p>You said it was a rollercoaster and it is of the worst kind.<p>HH, My H is a tortured man. Should I care? No. Do I know that the guilt and shame are killing him inside? YES. That's why I discount his "episodes". <p>Thanks for referring me to Radio Shack. Never really knew where to look.<p>And thanks most importantly, for your concern.

T-
I dont have much time to post this AM. Have counseling session with one of the Harley's(yea). "I have Issues" [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I had to respond. Your husband is NOT only emotionally abusive. HE IS PHYSICALLY ABUSIVE.
Please end this awlful cycle. You can "save" your Daughter from this. she will marry or date an abusive man and think it is "love" because you did. Terri- This not even close to healthy.
NO ONE MAKES someone hit them (or push them to the floor). DO NOT EVEN MAKE UP AN EXCUSE FOR HIM.
He is a CREEP, and an abusive one at that.
He see's nothing wrong??? he appoligizes and you take it. Maybe next time, he will put you in the hospital. Then who will take care of D ??. This is so unacceptable. YOU ARE in danger, file a restraining order. Do not let that man in again.
Gosh I am being so hard on you. But as a health professional (in womens health) I have seen and hear women make up all kinds of excuses for their husbands behavior. "I provoced it, I deserved it"..etc. "I made him mad", "I should not have done______". <p>T- it is BS. Dont take anything you dont want you daughter to take. YOU are teaching her life lessons. She will pick a man like you did, Terrified the man she picks can be worse. Save yourself and your daughter, It is not too late.
(((hugs)))

Here is what jumps out at me. This man absolutely treats you like garbage, speaks to you in the worst possible way, comes in and out of your home as he pleases, roars at you if you don't make yourself and your home 100% available to him 24 hours a day, and THROWS YOU TO THE FLOOR.<p>Yet you take notice and seem encouraged when he "brushes against you on the way to hug D."<p>Terri, you have become addicted to the drama in this situation, and in a tragic way are almost thriving on it. It's what you live for, because you have nothing else.<p>Have you read the posts here by "Honey?" The two of you have been given much good advice here but NOTHING HAS CHANGED for either one of you.<p>You both need a good mental health professional who specializes in helping battered women to recover. I think that you and "Honey" are both far past the point of doing this on your own, or of having a site like this make any difference in your situation. <p>One day, your posts here will stop, and we won't know why -- but it will be because the men in your lives have put you in the hospital -- or worse -- and you will not be posting here again.<p>This site is a very good one for support, but you both need far more than this. Just going through the daily hopeless drama that your lives have become, and then posting every detail about it here, is NOT going to help you. And it is certainly no way to live.<p>"Honey," this is for you, too:<p>I am sorry to be so harsh, but for heaven's sakes, what are you waiting for? What do these men have to do before you get the message? <p>Do you want to wake up in a hospital bed with your little girl looking down at you and have to explain to him that her daddy did this to you because you failed to protect yourself? <p>How about if *you* are looking down at *her* lying injured in the hospital bed, because this violent, abusive man THAT YOU CONTINUED TO KEEP IN YOUR LIFE went after you yet again and she, unfortunately, got in the way?<p>Or are you going to wait until your kids are looking down on your coffin at the funeral, and Daddy is in jail for your murder?<p>It happens every day, and both of you are lining up for exactly the same thing to happen to you. <p>It doesn't matter one damn bit what they are "supposed" to do. THEY HAVEN'T DONE IT, AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO DO IT. THEY HAVE SHOWN YOU IN THE UTMOST CLARITY THAT THEY ARE THE WORST POSSIBLE SORT OF MEN ON THE PLANET.<p>If you don't stop waiting for them to do the right things, and start protecting yourselves and your children by GETTING THESE MEN PERMANETLY OUT OF YOUR LIVES, then you are asking for the worst to happen and are doing NOTHING to prevent it.<p>Get the law on your side, get these men out of your lives, and stop telling yourselves that they are somehow going to change and make everything better for you.<p>They won't. But they will kill you, one way or another.<p>Psycho_B***h

Terri, have you filed a police report? Man-handling is not acceptable. throwing you to the floor goes beyond verbal abuse and your question about provoking it??? EXCUSE ME???? I didn't really read that did I?<p>Please, talk to a domestic violence counselor. At this point, marriage builder principles will only get you hurt or killed. PLAN B TIME!!! Backed up by a restraining order!

Terri,
I think So Crushed & Psycho_B reflect my sentiments, just so you know -- I am no expert here, but I have seen enough doucu-dramas and read enough which when added to lifes experiences, it is very apparent to me that So Crushed & Psycho -B know what they are talking about!
We do not want to read about your story in the newspaper or on the Lifetime Network (woman's cable network)!
You mentioned reading about abuse. Isn't the passivity & apologies a common pattern?
Do you share these things with your counselor? I cannot believe she/he has not recommend some of these steps discussed here -- like a restraining order. Perhaps the throwing on the floor is the most severe example to date. But like I suggested, as with any obsessive, addicitive kind of behavior pattern, it get's progressive! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]
Next time maybe he kicks you when you are down, then next time he kicks you & then pulls a table over on top of you, then picks you up & throw you down a stairs.--??? Why take a chance or risk this? [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

I don't want to scare you, but just add support to this idea that you should file for a restraining order or do something specifiaclly to protect yourself & your D.
I have this feeling the idea of a restraining order or something like that may scare you, becasue you know that he will really get upset then & come after you -- here again you may internalize that as your fault. This is his problem, not yours!
I have a sense his parents know the rage he is capable of and I am sure they would not want to see their son's name in the paper for assault & battery charges -- they may not take action though as I can guess that they are perhaps scared of him in a sense.
I can only imagine how desperate you must feel. You need a good friend -- we have discussed this before -- difficult I know. Perhaps you can see your counselor on an emergency kind of thing?
Keep us updated & God Bless!
HH

<<<Do I know that the guilt and shame are killing him inside? YES. That's why I discount his "episodes".>>><p>Terri, it is absolute frightening that you are reacting this way.<p>Apparently you're still telling yourself that he really loves you, and wants to come back to you, but is so tortured by guilt and shame for having another woman that he just "can't" right now. <p>So, you excuse and ignore his behavior and somehow convince yourself that his abuse is really evidence of his "love" for you.<p>This is a classic response from a battered woman who can no longer make rational decisions for herself and her children.<p>Terri -- he talks to you with a filthy mouth and feels free to physically abuse you. I'd bet money that they physical abuse is a lot worse than you are telling us about. What's it really like when he comes over?<p>This is NOT love. This is NOT respect. This is a man who has got himself a cowering woman to control and is enjoying the hell out of his power trip. <p>When will you realize that he does this because he gets off on it and ENJOYS it -- not because he "feels guilty?"<p>If he loved you and respected you and wanted to be with you as a husband and a father, he would dump his OW, clean up his act, and come back to you begging for your forgiveness.<p>If he was simply getting off on his power trip by controlling and tormenting you, he would be both verbally and physically abusive.<p>Which one is he doing?<p>And by the way -- do the parents of the kids who spend the night with your D know what is really going on at your house? Do they realize what their kids might see and hear, and that they too might well be in physical danger?<p>If you make even one more excuse for this man's behavior, Terri, you are in deeper trouble than any of us thought.

Terri,
I don't know the laws in Canada, but since I filed a restraining order on behalf of my daughter against some lousy bullying girls last summer, I feel quite that you qualify for a temporary restraining order. At least here the court date came about a month later for the permanent order, I suppose more quickly if the temp is violated, enough time to see whether you need it or not and how your H is reacting.<p>He's crossed the line. <p>It doesn't matter if you had LBed, called him an SOB and THEN he knocked you to the floor, he still wouldn't be in the right and it still wouldn't be your fault. It doesn't matter if he had the living snot beat out of him daily as child, he doesn't have the right to shove you.<p>If he's so tortured with guilt...set him off on his own to deal with it. They're his demons and you are not responsible or keeping him well or making him well.<p>I don't see any reason not to tell his parents. Better yet, your mom likes to be overly involved, let her tell them.<p>I'm so sorry, but I think you are quickly moving beyond the place where normal boundaries are enough. <p>You've really, really tried.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Lor (Lor):
<strong>Terri,
I don't see any reason not to tell his parents. Better yet, your mom likes to be overly involved, let her tell them.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Terri,
I dito everything Lor said, although I would show caution with having your mom tell them -- this may have had a strong tone of sarcassum, but I have a feeling that your H's rage may be a family charactorisitc -- ??? You might want to call in the mounted police as I could imagine your mom getting really ralled up (ad with justification I might add!) and taking out her anger, frustration and resentemt out on In-laws.
Involving the In laws could get nasty, but a part of me says that after all that you've been through & your efforts to try & make it work, you don't have much to lose with realationship w your H. I could se where by you approaching the in-laws you are giving them a chance to stay involved with their grand D, otherwise it could get restrictive where your H has no rights & therefore their future invlovement could be very limtied be asue I don't thnk you want to farm out your D, understanding your H could have big influence with hie Parents & I agree it is definaately best for your D's futyre that her exposure to this monster be very limited -- IMHO, you need to start a weenig process now ...<p>Very Hard decisions I know. I pray that you follow your instincts and ask for heavenly help!
HH