CMiranda, I'm NOT flaming you here! It's such a common misconception that As are caused by unmet needs. As are caused by people not protecting themselves against their own weaknesses,lack of communication and lack of commitment.<p>I found a wonderful little booklet the other day on marriage, which summarises the whole process as the 3 Cs:<p>Commitment
Communication
Conflict resolution<p>Fail on one, you've lost on them all....<p>Steve Harley has before said that As are a selfish, cruel indulgence entered into by the spouse who is PUTTING least into the marriage. So yes, we're all vulnerable to As, because we're all weak and selfish. It's up to each one of us to protect ourselves and others from ourselves.<p>OW, please think about this. And remember, you do get what you deserve. Unless you yourself have healthy self-esteem, which has to be earned one painful drop of sweat at a time from doing what is right in the teeth of your desire to indulge yourself, you won't have any of the 3 Cs yourself and you won't be attractive to a man who is honest and faithful. You'll be giving off signals that you are cheap and easy and nice men will gallop off in the opposite direction. Crumb-bums will home in on you. <p>Commitment requires courage and perseverance.
Communication takes SKILLS. Learning how to talk to somebody effectively, how to listen effectively.
Conflict-resolution - sure as eggs are eggs, any two people living or working together will have conflict. Takes guts, self-respect and respect for others, as well as commitment and communication to healthily resolve conflict in the way that leads to growth and happiness for both parties. Harley calls it POJA.<p>You can learn from this mistake. It'll take lots of hard work and pain as you look at yourself honestly. First thing you need to look at here: why you have so little respect for yourself and for other women that you'd leap at the chance to scr*w another woman's H in HER bed, invading her home, and play with HER baby. I'm assuming from this that she was out at work while you and her H were romping about? Would you have liked it if one of your longterm boyfriends had brought another woman into your joint living space and indulged himself with her in your bed?

I have no sympathy for a woman who lets herself be used by a MM. But, if you are looking to a different future, think about this.<p>You call yourself OW (pretty much a slur here)
You admit the MM didn't even pay for a motel room
You admit he was taking care of his child (he wouldn't even give you full attention during the affair, because he was helping W w/baby care).
You admit you gave up on it ever becoming a relationship (you ended it before he dumped you)<p>Will you marry a man who will do this to you? The W didn't cause this did she? Maybe it's just a crap shoot you won't pick a man who could do this to you don't you.

BINGO<p>That's what you're here to ask. I just got the meaning reading between the lines of your original post. You want these W's to tell you what they did wrong and how they caused their H's to cheat on them. So you won't make the same mistakes they made. So you won't ever get cheated on. Grrrr.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by juststartingover:<p>No problem just starting. The ground work is laid when needs go unmet. I know that the harleys list our 10 needs someplace on this site. I read them and shouted out, bingo, yup, that is me. That explained alot for me. Before I understood that, I couldn't figure out why I fell in love with OM and out of love with H. OM and I would sit and talk about our "voids". When we talked about trying to break things off, our fear of the voids reopening steared us back to meeting those unmet needs in eachothers lives. Looking back it was selfish to go outside the M and let someone else do for us what we should have communicated to our spouses that we needed. But in my case, the years that pasted without my spouse caring to meet some of those needs was also selfish. He was told more than once but I'm sure my words fell onto deaf ears. I was committed to him for years and I struggled with breaking that commitment when I chose to have relationship with OM. I never did have to ask OM, he just fullfilled me. It was easy and it felt right, then. I do think it's important for us all to know that we are soppose to communicate our needs but recognition and awareness of those needs are just as important. Like I said, at the time, I wasn't aware of them on a conscious level. I just felt misunderstood.

no, I'm really not being that coniving at all. I am SO confused by everything right now and just trying to learn and put everything in it's place. I got my full of my own perspective and the MM's perspective and now I want the BS's perspective. I'm not thinking clearly enough to even formulate my questions right so I don't cause undo hurt, so believe me, I'm not clever enough right now to write between any lines. I'm just trying to recover and look at myself and the situation in the glare of the "ugly lights," after spending five months with blinders on.

P I- you said you wanted to talk to me about more specifics and I'm willing. How do you want to do it?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by OW:
<strong>P I- you said you wanted to talk to me about more specifics and I'm willing. How do you want to do it?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
OW - Did you post on this site hoping to be recognized? If so, you are lower than dirt. If not, just seems odd that PI thinks she knows you by your original posting.

OW, <p>Can you give me your email address?<p>PI

This is so sad. OW, do you realize what this is going to do the his wife when she finds out (and she will, they always do)Knowing that you were in her home, her safe haven, her bed and playing with her infant? This is going to just kill her. I can't fathom what was going on in your head or her husbands. When she finds out, everytime she looks at her precious child, she is going to see you. This is beyond cruel.<p>I do believe this is the same OW on gloryb who's MM's wife works out of town occasionally, that is why she went to HER home and then the infant had to go the the emergency room so she went with her MM to take the baby.<p>This man is really messed up, you would be wise to sever all ties with him. What kind of man does these things? Surely you see how horrible this whole thing is? <p>Why?

Ow<p>There is another OW on the emotional needs board look for djmusicbox.<p>You must read past the first part to get into the meat of the thread.<p>As you read the thread, you will see that the tone changes.<p>If I can work out the link I will come back and so so.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by CMiranda:
<strong>OW - you are lower than dirt.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Well, this doesn't help anybody.<p>I couldn't agree more that while in the act of being a WS, these organisms are inhumane. My WS included among the worst.<p>But I'm willing to embrace ANY WS who comes here seeking help, including Miss OW here, and I believe it's counterproductive to be judgemental when we may have the chance to help prevent further carnage.<p>So, CMiranda, and others, unless you have anything constructive to add, I humbly suggest you spend your time finding somebody on the forum to help or seek help for yourselves.

I could not get the link to work, sorry.<p>[ April 25, 2002: Message edited by: gottruth? ]<p>[ April 25, 2002: Message edited by: gottruth? ]</p>

Worthatry,<p>you are right, I apologize for stepping in here like I did. I just read this and I am still trying to wrap it around my head. I just can not fathom this. It is so unbelievably cruel. This whole scene is etched in my mind so bad, it has me totally upset. How can anyone encourage this? Other sites sure do. To go to HER home and play with HER son, go to the emergency room with MM and then come back and have sex in HER bed with HER DH. His wife had a right to know that HER child went to the hospital, instead dear ol dad is to busy having his OW over to play house that MOM isn't even considered. What is wrong with that man? Why would his OW even allow herself to be in such a situation? I don't understand this, I just can't seem to fathom it. How do people do this to one another? I would love some insight, because this situation has me shocked beyond words.<p>I come here everynight and read everything that I can, it is my homework. I tell my DH about all of it. We have been married almost 2 years and just had a baby 5 months ago, no infidelity on either side. I just want to keep my marriage safe from it ever happening. You and everyone else here are wonderful people. You come here, and in your own pain, help others. Keep up the excellent work, people need you guys, they really do.

Sorry Dave -- <p>Think you're tops, but I'm not taking back one word or thought I wrote.<p>You don't come to a marriage BUILDERS site, call yourself the OW, describe your romp on the marriage bed, and then expect to be accepted with open arms. <p>She EXPECTED flames, if you read her topic title. I wonder why? And yeah, that was sarcastic. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>If someone truly, TRULY wants help, they will come with a contrite heart and remorse... and I doubt they would rub anyone's nose in what they did.<p>Sorry, but not buying it.

CAUSE:
H took his OW into our home and MY BED. She was his best friend/partner's wife and my FORMER best friend. They both lied about it for 6 years to protect themselves and their 'promise' to each other never to tell.<p>EFFECT:
-$2000 worth of new bedroom furniture
-having to switch former sewing room into bedroom (which by the way is smaller and not as bright)
-$5000 worth of marriage counseling
-more heartache than can be measured
-I no longer want to live in this house which is paid off and used to be my haven<p>Worth it? I think not

PI, I am not your husband's OW, I read your previous posts, but if you would like to chat, I am willing. My email is Vera8888@aol.com

OW,<p>I commend you for wanting to understand more and wanting to learn more.<p>I can say with a happy face that I was not offended by what you said....I took it at what is was....as an explanation of how intimate your relationhsip with the MM was. And yes.....it hurts to hear something like that....but I don't truly believe that you intended for it to hurt anyone.<p>I truly believe that seeing what the MM was doing to his wife has scared you and therefore you want to learn what the possiblities were for him to do that to her.....and hopefully make sure that it never happens to you.<p>Unfortunately....nobody really knows why he did it except for him. All A's might have the same foundation....but the layers are all different.<p>It may help you to understand that by posting here that alot of fellow MB'ers are still dealing with alot of pain. We ask OW and WS's what happened and the like....but if it's offered some will see it as an attack that is supposed to hurt.<p>I wish you well....and hope that you find what you are looking for.

I don't think being in that bed shows intimacy, I think it shows sordidness and the depths OW sank to. <p>Being able to tell the difference between intimacy & sordidness is a good step to a better future.<p>[ April 25, 2002: Message edited by: Lor (Lor) ]</p>

OW,
I have only 3 questions for you:<p>1. How did you find the MARRIAGE BUILDERS site?
2. Why would you come here and chose the name "OW" if you were looking for help?
3. Have you considered the fact that you most likely need some intense therapy?<p>[ April 25, 2002: Message edited by: TinyDancer ]</p>

1. From gloryb
2. It was just the first name that came to the site and it recognizes right off the bat that I am an outside perspective. Not intended to hurt.
3. Yes, but can't afford it, so I am trying to get help where I can. i.e., here.