Bleeding.
Wonderful news! You know, I think you should share it with your wife...who knows, you might feel even better!
T

Bleeder;<p>you said: "what happend was not a sexual gratification but rather an awakaning of my sole."<p>Yes, yes, an awakening of the "sole" of your shoe. Because if it had been your SOUL, you would have known this is NOT the answer.<p>Pity on your family. I wish you all the best luck...you're going to need all of it and more.

Bleeding,<p>I had heard of the statistic that zorweb cites - 50 to 80% of BSs have secondary affairs. It's interesting that there aren't more posts from BSs who have done this.<p>I wouldn't say all BSs have contemplated it, but I would guess that many of the BSs on these boards have at least contemplated it.<p>My opinion is that Plan A/Plan B may lead to reconciliation and the basis for a great marriage. An alternative result is that Plan A/Plan B may lead to a BS who is ready to move on from a marriage that could not be saved.<p>I hope and pray for my marriage. But if the marriage cannot be saved, I plan on emerging from this experience knowing that I have done everything I can for the marriage (and with dignity and self-esteem intact). Having my own A would just not fit into this.<p>Bleeding, I'm sure you feel great today, but I think you need to take a step back and really think about this for the long term. Try hard for this marriage; many on these boards will help you.<p>Giles

Bleeding,<p>I'm curious, how long ago was your encounter (read affair)?<p>A month or so ago there were a couple of threads on here in which BS's discussed the desire they had to have an affair. It's not unusual to at least contemplate it.<p>I too have thought of it. There was a period a few months ago when, although I am happy in my marriage I also flet driven to thoughts of it. The way I handled it was to tell my H about the feelings. Everytime the thoughts got out of hand, I'd told to him. I never really wanted to have an affair. I never acted on the feelings, they were just driving me nuts.<p>Now they are gone, thank goodness.<p>[ April 26, 2002: Message edited by: zorweb ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by bleeding:
<strong> all of a sudden I realized I don't have to be the one who must keep this family togther. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Okay, I found this to be the most alarming and significant statement of them all. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>If not you, then whom?<p>Whom do you think your children are counting on to keep their family together? Is there a family fairy somewhere to put a new one under their pillow? <p>They only have two people to count on for that, and they are TOTALLY dependent on them and their decisions for their lives. YOU are one of those people. Just because one of you fails your children doesn't mean that relieves the other of all responsibility.<p>Picture your child lying under and being crushed by something heavy and you and your wife work together to lift it up off of him. Then she drops her end. What do you do? Drop your end and allow your child to be crushed?<p>If you cavalierly destroy your children's lives, your pain has just begun and will go on long after you are dead. Believe me. I am the fourth generation talking.

Good morning everyone:<p>Thank you all for raising your valid issues. For the most part, I agree with some of you but here is the part that has become disturbing.
my wife is still calling the OM and I can't take it anymore.
conquerer , you said that if my wife has dropped her responsiblity then I must carry the weight and guide us into a normal life, but how Long is enough? really how long of this pain is enough?
I have had it- enough is enough !.
she is cold and thoughtless. here is what she does for a days work:
gets up feeds the kids and then the school bus comes and the kids are gone. she takes a shower, puts on her tight miny skirts , goes on to play tennis. after that may be afriend wants a drink for lunch so she has one or two or three . then its time to come home again if not seeing OM. watching some TV then get the kids go to the mall and back and call me and inform me of the cocktail hour at a neighbors house and there won't be a dinner and I could choose either chinese or pizza and after buying the food I should call her so her majesty shall arrive for dinner!.<p>You People have no clue how that makes me feel. I work very hard to support our family. she has everything finacially needed, vacations,jewlery which often she likes to flush into the bathroom! brand new 3500 Sq.feet house, brand new SUV BMW! COME ON GIVE ME BREAK!
You women talk about feminism and equality and yet you just want it all coming the easy way.<p>You send your husbands to work so you can have this prestigious life style. so off he goes he works hard and long hours just to gratify your desires. then all of a sudden you become Unhappy! You poor souls !You start saying your husband is never around , he works too much, he doesn't listen when you talk, he doesn't play with the kids, you do everything around the house, other people are happily married and you are not and the list goes ON AND ON >>>><p>Please >>>>> Please>>>>>> Don't you see that you have started this whole damn mess!<p>GIVE ME A BREAK FOR GOD SAKE AND OPEN YOUR EYES!<p>I have come to accept the fact that marriage is nothing but going against the nature ! we are all animals who think that we are the best of the species.we are not suppose to be monogemius creatures -our cultures and society tells us to be this way yet behind the close doors we all cheat , we all steal , we all Lie......and so forth . I have lost my faith In humanity . I don't trust anyone anymore because everyone lies and cheats and that is the sad part.
There are no absoloutions in this life. Some of you are trying to tell me to hold on to the good part of this life but hey you and I both Know that in truth the bottom line is this: none of us no the way and we are all trying to explain the darkness of this life by choosing and saying colorful words.
WELCOME TO REALITY < IT DOESN"T EXIST!
thank you again!
bleeding [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]

Thank you, bleeding, for proving all the reasons we need a guide like this, and the reasons why we should follow it closely --><p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
WAT's Quick-start guide for BS's:<p>Rule 1: Don't try to make sense out of what's happening. You are not dealing with rational people, so your normal thought processes won't work. This is exactly why you're confused. Your spouse will act as if he/she has been abducted by aliens and had their brains scrambled. Just watch and don't take any of this personally. If you can do it calmly, confront your spouse with any solid evidence you have of the affair, but expect denials and lies beyond belief.<p>Rule 2: Don't be in a hurry. There is little, if anything, you can do to separate the affairees. They have to do this on their own. The affair will end. To hasten it's end, do not interfere with it.<p>Rule 3: All snooping is good and necessary - but be ready for an ANGRY reaction if your snooping is detected. Refer to Rule 1. Think NOT of snooping as disrespectful spying, but as necessary affair research.<p>Rule 4: Don't beat yourself up for "causing" the affair. You are partly responsible for creating the environment which made the affair possible, and you need to examine yourself critically to see what changes you need to make, but you are NOT responsible for your spouse's decision to have an affair.<p>Rule 5: This will likely be the worst experience of your life. You are a prime candidate for depression, so see a doctor if you feel like you're having difficulty coping. You may need anti-depressants. You are also a prime candidate for your own affair. DON'T DO IT!<p>Rule 6: Do not recruit your spouse's family in an attempt to "help." If they ask questions, answer honestly, but in the long run, do not expect their support - if you get it anyway, consider it a bonus. Blood IS thicker than mud.<p>Rule 7: Do not expect too much right away from the wayward spouse even if they have already ended the affair. It may feel like you are they only one who is trying to save the marriage. You are not a doormat, just a loving, faithful spouse. <p>Rule 8: You will be told by well intending "advisors" to "Throw him/her out!!!" or, "Say good bye and don't look back!!" Instead of following this advice, learn everything you can from books, websites like this one, and counselors about the ways to find the silver lining in this cloud. Seek advice as soon as possible.<p>Rule 9: In ongoing affairs, if your spouse's OP is also married, consider informing the OP's spouse if you know their identity. The purpose for this is to reveal the affair on the other side which may motivate the OP to end it. This should not be done without guidance.<p>Rule 10: Your situation is not likely to be unique. The actions and statements of affairees are surprisingly similar. You can gain understanding and support from just about anybody else who has experienced an affair.<hr></blockquote><p>[ April 26, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

This is going to be LONG!!!!!<p>Bleeding.....you just don't get it do you?
So I will point it out to you....since I've been there.<p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I MET A wonderful lady ,an angel to be perfect, and we talked for about a week or so and she was fully aware of my circumstances. she is a woman whom I have great respect and appreciation for and without any guilty feelings what so ever, we had intimacy!!! . <p>IT WAS THE MOST BEUTIFUL AND MOST WONDERFUL FEELING EVER. I FELT LIKE A TEEN AGER AGAIN AND MAN I TELL YOU MY PAIN IS GONE AND EVERYTHING SEEMS GREAT AGAIN. THINGS AREN'T BLACK AND WHITE ANY MORE THEY ARE WONDERFUL COLORS OUT THERE!!<p>I know you may say I have made a big mistake or two wrongs don't make it right but here is what I truely belive. MY PAIN IS GONE.I AM HEALED!!! YOU WON'T BELIVE ME BUT IT IS ALL GONE!!!! <hr></blockquote><p>First of all you talked to this lady for a week and you have great respect and appreciation for her? That would make me shake my head from the beginning.
Fact....you RESPECT her because she is understnading.
Fact.....you appreciate her because she is understanding.
Of course you don't feel guilty.....why should you.....you are in your "WHAT ABOUT ME?" stage.<p>You pain is not gone...it's just been covoered up with other feelings.
Example.....you and your W have a small little tiff...you both are slightly angry.....one of your children does something new...it's cute so you both laugh. For that moment you are no longer angry....you have covered it up with the joy of your child and what they have done, but the anger is still there....it didn't just disappear.<p>NOTHING is ever black and white. In situations like this there are almost always 3 sides to the story. Your side...my side...and the truth!<p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I want to be free again . NO more of this loyalty marriage garbage !. I have a zest for life and I am not going to let some unappreciating wife and partner bring me down.
so if you are in pain still you can get out of just like I did. Try it and be truthfull with youself.it WORKS! Don't think of as a revenge but a healing process for yourself. I am happy that I am not sad and depressed any more. and as far as my wife goes, I could care less if she sleeps with an army of strangers or what have you. she was the wrong person for me and she was dumb enough to show it to me this way.<p>Tell me what you think and again please don't think I am trying to discourage you from working out your relationships but when something breaks IT IS BROKEN!
SO GET ON WITH LIFE. GO OUT THERE AND MEET SOMEONE IN YOUR OWN LEVEL OF THOUGHTS AND HAVE FUN ! BECAUSE LIFE IS FAR MORE PRECIOUS THAN SITTING AND BEING SAD OVER WHAT SOME MORAN WIFE OR HUSBAND DID TO YOU! give them what they deserve! <hr></blockquote><p>First of all. You are NOT being truthfull with yourself. You are lying to yourself...your wife and your children.<p>Second....just because something breaks does NOT mean that it can't be repaired.
Just saying that it's broken and leaving it at that costs you more in the long run. You either don't deal with it and throw it away....or you buy a new one....which seems to be what you are doing. You are now on the road to becoming a WS.
Hope that makes you feel better about yourself.
I think the rule is....due unto others as you would HAVE them due unto you......not due unto others as they HAVE done to you.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Now it looks like you all hate me now but you mostly have your husbands cheating and I need to hear from the men with wayward wifes please.
apparently They are right, man are from mars and women are from ....?
so I am in the wrong you all say and I am going to be sorry But and this is a big BUT :
How about the way I am feeling now, There is no more pain any more ! do you see that , It is all gone .
by the way my wife and I are still together living in the same house and she is as care less as she always is.
one of you had mentioned ,she is lucky that her husband gave her a second chance , and I did too I worked hard to make love deposits despite of my pain. Don't judge me and brand me as a crule husband because I am the best husband and this is not my own comment but my wifes but yet she is still wondering around with the OM.
So < I am just saying I am sick and tired of my case and you people with nasty comments are not hellping but the people with great logical comments I truely appreciate and keep them coming. <hr></blockquote><p>I'm completely reconsiled with my H. It's been over a year since D-Day for me....my H isn't cheating on me.<p>You want someone to validate what you are doing...that's why you posted this. You didn't want us to know that you are not sad anymore and that you are happy now. You simply wanted someone to say hey...I'm happy for you....good going.
Not gonna happen from me. Cause I've already traveled the road your on. It's a dead end.<p>You are showing your W no more respect than what she has shown you. Your children will pick on this. <p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Thank you faith and the rest for all your comments.
I have worked on my marriage and for some of you to quickly get pissed O>> is wrong.If you have no tolerence to read a realistic posting you should do something else perhaps.
I never said I am proud of what I have done. I know it was wrong but It has made me feel good about myself. this is not about you but me we are talking okay!
I am so sorry for those of you who have worked hard to save their marriages and yet they have ended in a D.
That is very sad but I have a feeling all of us with terbulent relations end in a divorce and why prolong the pain of loving something that is not going to not love us back.
why make all the love deposits when your partner keeps withdrawing and spending on the OM OR OW>
Thats my point, I don't want to convince any of you to end your relations and I am just talking about mine . <hr></blockquote><p>
You need to re read your statements Bleeding.<p>You HAVE encouraged others to do this.
In all your giddiness over meeting this OW you have encouraged others to do the same. You have went on about how much better they would be and feel.<p>
My M was one of the most turbulant ones on here. My H was verbally abusive to me and our daughters and I stuck it out because I loved him and I knew that when he realized he was doing it and came out of the fog that he would quickly change....he did.
My M has not ended in D.<p>I'm not sure that I would call you a cruel H.
BUT.....what about your children?
Who do they have to look up to now?<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> You women talk about feminism and equality and yet you just want it all coming the easy way.
Please >>>>> Please>>>>>> Don't you see that you have started this whole damn mess! <hr></blockquote><p>Come now Bleeding....remember.....you just got through saying that you have met this most incredible woman. Do you not think that she is at least a little like your W used to be....or the way you think she could be?<p>Making comments like this will do nothing but piss off the majority of the woman here. Blaming it all on us.
The situation you have yourself in now is YOUR FAULT...not your wifes.<p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I don't trust anyone anymore because everyone lies and cheats and that is the sad part. <hr></blockquote><p>After everything that you have posted you can actually say this?<p>If you don't trust then why are you willing to get involved with someone else?<p>You have to be willing to trust....forgive, love and share if you are to have a healthy relationship with anyone.<p>If you don't believe in these things anymore....then you are doomed to never have another relationship with anyone again.<p>Just my 2 cents....but then again....I know you will ingore it....just speaking from experience.<p>Just wanted to add this.
You have a right to leave....it may be the best thing for all involved in your situation....but make sure you are doing it for the right reasons.
Remember how you were as a teenager....we all thought we had ALL the answers and then we realized that we didn't.<p>[ April 26, 2002: Message edited by: Miss Priss ]</p>

Hi MB members...<p>Although I've been following this thread since it started and what a sad story it is...I just wanted to make a correction from new_begining.<p>***Quote:If you really do need a pat on the back for your choice to cheat, you might try infidelity.com. They will give you atta boy's and even give you tips to continue the affair, if you so choose.***<p>Actually, Infidelity.com is a site based on supporting people that are suffering from being betrayed...I promise, there are no high fives going around any of the boards. Most of the members are married and trying very hard to reconcile with their WS's. I think you have it mistaken with a different site.<p>Good luck...I wish you all well.<p>Deeply Scared
Moderator - Infidelity.com

Bleeding,<p>It looks like you have pretty much lost all the love you have for your wife. If you have any left at all I would seriously be thinking of a Plan B separation at this point. (However, this does not entail sleeping with other women yet!).<p>If you have no love left then just divorce her! Once you're divorced you can run around all you want, but while you're married you should at least try to set a good example for your kids.<p>-HD

This is quite a thread, as a BS H I am definitely from Mars and have listened with interest. I have considered a payback A, everyone does. And the oppoortunity to eliminate pain if only for a day is so so very tempting. But I have to agree with the posters who advise against it because I think in the end the pain would be worse, in other words it feels dbad enough to be a betrayed husband, it must eventually feel worse to be a betraying one as well, maybe not now, but I think I'd rather look back on my life with my honor intact. Remember, your honor is the wone thing no one can take from you, they can take your wife, your marriage,your family, your possessions, etc, but you can only lose your honor by giving it up yourself.<p>Jack

So, the basic premise here is that if I become just as selfish, dishonest, and unfaithful as my husband was during his affair, then my pain will be gone? No thanks, at least I can look at myself in the mirror and in the faces of my children without that guilt and shame.<p>I might hurt, but at least I have my morals, ethics, pride, and faith intact. I'm not about to give those up for some sleezy sex. I don't need that to "feel good about myself". I already do.

I apologize for the mistake with Infidelity.com!!<p>I'll leave it since it's been quoted, but evidently it is a good place to go.

My credentials (since you were asking for husbands who have been betrayed): I am the BS, was married less than a year when her A started. It lasted half of our marriage before I learned of it. She left me for him...we are now in recovery. See my link below for some of the details.<p>my wife is still calling the OM and I can't take it anymore. <p>Then don't. You can make the choice to tell her you will no longer tolerate such. You can set such boundaries. It would be my guess that she CONTINUES to contact him because she has yet to suffer any significant consequences of such (like you asking her to move out, or you doing so).<p>You People have no clue how that makes me feel. <p>I know absolutely how it feels. My wife lied to me repeatedly. She conspired to get me to fall out of love with her. She left me for the OM. I would say that YOU have no idea how THAT feels. If you want to compare pain in your marriage to some of those at this site (as a justification for your behavior), you had better bring a bigger resume of betrayal.<p>You can either run from pain and problems or you can face them like a man and deal with them.<p>I can tell you this, I have a more enjoyable marriage now than I did prior to learning of the A. So, if recovery possible? Absolutely.<p>I am chosing to snip all the ignorant and irrelevant woman-bashing.<p>Your posts are so nonsensical that I am beginning to think that this is all a sham -- someone that is making up a story to get responses.<p>I have come to accept the fact that marriage is nothing but going against the nature ! we are all animals who think that we are the best of the species.we are not suppose to be monogemius creatures <p>Good grief man that last statement was ignorant. Go back to school and learn about mammals. You will see that many, if not most, are monogomous (sp?).<p>Folks, This fella is likely as bad as MMseakingadvice. We can waste the next few weeks trying to help him, as we did MM, and in the end fail in the futility, or we can go on to those that actually want help (and are willing to listen when they are given such).<p>[ April 26, 2002: Message edited by: Mr. Bunky ]</p>

Bleeding,
You haven't solved your problem, you've complicated it. <p>I did the same thing.<p>-Except it was 2 years after my H's PA began & did an 18 month Plan A, while my H's A continued.
-Except we were in our 7th separation.
-Except I single parented for 14 out of 21 months as my H moved in & out, he did spend time with the kids.
-Except I served D papers before I started dating the male friend, who, was a great guy and very nice to me.<p>And...not one of those things justifies or outweighs the fact my actions were dishonorable and I lost my integrity...because I was still married.<p>I will always know that I made a unwise & dishonorable decision to go ahead with that relationship before clearing the rubble of my marriage.<p>Soon you'll have to make a difficult decision, keep the marriage & dump the lover or keep the lover and dump the marriage. There is no way out without additional hurt.<p>My H & I reconciled a few months later. Our 7th try. A recovery so much more difficult because of my actions, and not just his. And, I hurt the OM and my H and myself.<p>But, 2 years later, I'm happy with my husband. I feel very fortunate we're together, we're a team, we're partners, we're in love. I look at him and my heart swells with love and gladness. My family is together, I'm raising my wonderful teenage daughters with their father. I know I wouldn't have been as comfortable with any other man in my home with them. But, our marriage is far more than our children, it's us as 2 people who really want to be together and have put forth all the effort in recovery to make our marriage possible.<p>As good as your affair seems now, I doubt you'll look back at your actions in regard to either your wife or your lover as something you are proud of.<p>If I had instead ended up the OM, the beginnings would always have been shadowed, tainted, at least in my mind because at the beginning I wasn't morally or legally available to have that relationship.<p>A fleeting rush of feeling good might overshadow your pain for a time, but it's there, so is the anger, and it is all baggage that you take with you until you resolve it.<p>I pray no one here takes your misguided advice to do something with such huge potential for emotional harm.<p>And one last thing, please don't presume that nobody knows the kind of betrayal pain you've been through.

Bleeding,<p>your last post was way out of line. Are we starting to see what has driven your wife away from you? Seems like you have a pretty strong dislike for women in general. What else could explain your generalize ranting against women here? I would never make such generalizations about men? why? Because I know a lot of really good men. I know that most men are to creeps or jerks. Seems you don't know that most women are not like that either.<p>__________
RE: Please >>>>> Please>>>>>> Don't you see that you have started this whole damn mess!<p>Excuse me, what did women start? Infidelity? Unhappy marriages? All unhappiness in life? <p>___________
RE: I can't take it anymore. conquerer , you said that if my wife has dropped her responsibility then I must carry the weight and guide us into a normal life, but how Long is enough? really how long of this pain is enough?<p>I would wage that conquerer read what you said the same way I did. What you wrote sounded like you were walking out on your children too. I hope that is not the case. Only you can decide how long you are willing to work on your marriage. It sounds like your wife's behavior has been out of hand for a long time. And that the infidelity is just one more thing in a long list of transgressions. I can see that you would react to her infidelity differently then you would if she had been a good, devoted hard working wife, who suddenly out of nowhere had an affair. Many of the people here are dealing with that type of situation. In a case like yours, where your wife is an alcoholic, the addiction has to be handled before marital recovery can really start. <p>I reacted to your statement much the way conquerer did. You are not obligated to stay with an alcoholic adulteress. You are though, obligated to keep as much a family together as possible for your children. My current H did that under much the same situation you are now living with. He gave his wife the ultimatum that she stops her affair and drinking and work on the marriage. She walked out and left him with the children. Today he has custody of their children. They live with us.<p>___________
RE: You People have no clue how that makes me feel. I work very hard to support our family. she has everything financially needed, vacations, jewelry which often she likes to flush into the bathroom! brand new 3500 Sq.feet house, brand new SUV BMW! COME ON GIVE ME BREAK!<p>Your wife flushes jewelry down the toilet???? How strange. I've purchase most of the jewelry I own. So I'd never be that stupid. If I'm tired of it, it goes into an estate sale, not the toilet.<p>And yes many of us do know how that makes you feel. Many of the people here, men and women, are the breadwinners in their family. I have support two husbands. The first because he became ill. The second because he wanted to be a doctor. Both of them did to me essentially what your wife is doing to you. In my current marriage I earn as much as my H does.. we both support the family. He had his affairs while he was traveling. While I handled not only a very demanding full time career but everything to do with our household and was raising HIS children. So yes many of us know how it makes a person feel when they give their all and get dirt thrown back at them. So don't attack us like this! I get the impression that you are throwing at us what you want to tell your wife.<p>___________
RE: You women talk about feminism and equality and yet you just want it all coming the easy way.<p>Boy you are out of line. Yes I want equality. And I've had to fight like hell for it. Why? Because the price on pays when support by another is too high. I've always felt, as did my grandmothers, that both the husband and wife are responsible for the well being of the family, even the financial wellbeing.<p>A man has NEVER supported me. At best my first two husbands helped support our family financially when they could (or choose to). My current husband is the first one who has put all of his income into our household.<p>No I do not send my husband to work so that I can have a prestigious life style. I provide that for myself and my children. Two years ago I bought myself a 3000 sq foot house. His income has been nice, but I'd live the same without it.<p>My unhappiness in my previous marriage was due to my H's physical/emotional abuse and adultery. It was not due to some whimsical unhappy phase. The man was mean, cruel and abusive. And yes he was never home. After school and on-call he was out with his women. When I was not at work I was home taking care of my child and our house. No he did not listen to me talk. He was too busy yelling and throwing things at me. He only played with our son when it was convenient for him. Then I had to get out of the picture so he could have HIS SON. He did so some things around the house. Well, we both worked the same hours and I supported him. Guess he should help out, don't you think so? But the thing is he'd help and then he'd yell at me because I was, according to him, 'useless'.<p>And, through all of this I CHOSE to not have an affair. I had offers and opportunities. The thought crossed my mind more then once. But I did not want to muck up myself.<p>RE: GIVE ME A BREAK FOR GOD SAKE AND OPEN YOUR EYES!<p>NO, YOU GIVE ME A BREAK FOR GOD SAKE AND OPEN YOUR EYES! You married a woman who has some real problems. Then you try to paint all women with the same brush you paint her with. Sorry, I and most of the women I know, are good, hardworking woman. Few have had affairs. None that I would call a friend lives like your wife. And most of them have money. Because they are doctors, lawyers, engineers, managers, bankers, secretaries, clerks, and good solid stay at home wives, etc etc.<p>RE: I have come to accept the fact that marriage is nothing but going against the nature! We are all animals who think that we are the best of the species. We are not suppose to be monogamous creatures -our cultures and society tells us to be this way yet behind the close doors we all cheat, we all steal , we all Lie......and so forth . I have lost my faith in humanity. I don't trust anyone anymore because everyone lies and cheats and that is the sad part.<p>Well, I know that not everyone lies and cheats because I don't. And as long as I don't I can be pretty sure that there is at least one person who does not. I'd bet my bottom dollar that I could find others who do not too, like about 50%-57% of all people.<p>It is not true that we all cheat. 40%-50% of all people (men and women) cheat. Last time I worked with statistics that was not 'all people'. You choose which 50% you want to be in. I chose to be in the non-cheating 50%. I have chosen that no matter what paths my husbands have chosen. You are right that humans are not monogamous my nature. We have developed a culture of marriage and family because that is the structure in which our children, and we, are most likely to survive and live a good healthy life.<p>RE: There are no absolutions in this life. Some of you are trying to tell me to hold on to the good part of this life but hey you and I both Know that in truth the bottom line is this: none of us no the way and we are all trying to explain the darkness of this life by choosing and saying colorful words.<p>Yes, we are telling you to hold on to the good part of your life. It may or may not include your wife. But I hope it does include your children and others who care for you. As for the darkness, there is also light. It's the old half-full/half empty thing. A person is about as happy as they make up their mind to be.<p>Look man, you are really angry right now for good reason. So let it out. Use this as a place to vent. But do not use it as a place to attack all of us. Do not use it as a place to attack all women. We are not your wife. We did not cheat on you. And I for one could not live as your wife does, I'd be too embarrassed. So don't accuse me, or anyone else, here of being like her.<p>Right now you are choosing to be about as gloomy and angry as a person can be. Maybe you need that today, but I hope it passes. We all go through some pretty dark periods in life, often in response to the type of garbage your wife has put you through. I hope you find your way out of this.<p>You will not find happiness sleeping around with women you hardly know. Maybe in the short run it will work, but not in the long run. Tell me did this 'wonderful angel' know that you have no intention of having a long-term relationship with her and you were just using her as an ego boost? How can you feel good about that?<p>[ April 26, 2002: Message edited by: zorweb ]</p>

hello:<p>My special Thanks to all and "zorweb". one thing I must do is to apologize to all if I have offended any of you in any form or fashion. I guess I need time to vent out if will.<p>I will go back to my hole and won't bug any of you and hopefully when I come back, I would be more constructive than destructive.
I must admit I am a mess and must let this storm go by.
With greatest wishes for all of you,I hope you would forgive me if you have been at odds with my postings.<p>Yours Sincerely,
Bleeding

You are a mess. For sure. But please do something about it. Don't just "let the storm pass". Seek some help. <p>Crawling in a hole is not the answer either. None of us asked you to leave or attacked you in any way. Get some help dealing with these VERY serious issues. <p>Ditto to zorweb's post. That was very good, and probably speaks for several of us - I know it speaks for me.

Thank you Faith:<p>you are very caring and I appreciate your comments . to simply put, there are many caring people here and I couldn't thank all individually but My salute to you.
Thank you!
[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Bleeding,<p>While I found your posting offensive, I havn't dismissed it because I believe you are saying it with some sincerety. I do believe you have felt a lifting of the pain. I think part of that lifting of the pain wasn't just the PA, but that you GAVE UP. Once a person gives up, a heavy burden is lifted at least temporarily. You will move into other phases of pain because the pain killer of "GIVING UP and PA" will subside and the pain will return, but with more complications. It seems logical to me if you want to have successful relationships, you need to learn to RELATE, which by all accounts, it appears you have rejected the process of learning.<p>It isn't too late. Please take some time to reflect while you are feeling good about yourself, of how you can make yourself a better person (without the A). Your W has her own issues, but deal with your issues for now until you are stronger.<p>I don't think it does anyone any good to judge you, but your behaviour can be judged as non constructive to your long term happiness. Keep listening, and don't give up.