<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by K:
<strong>Although not exactly on AP, this article by Dr. Harley was highlighted in this month's MB newsletter.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Dr. Harley si saying exactly what I am saying lol. I always say that the greatest gift we can give our kids is to nurture our marriage. Dr. Harely says:<p> "The greatest contribution that parents can make to their children's happiness and success is to love each other for life. If parents love their children, and want the best for their children, they must do everything possible to preserve their romantic relationship. That means caring for each other must be their highest priority -- they must meet each other's intimate emotional needs. It's not a choice between caring for each other and caring for children. The reality is that if you want to truly care for your children, you must care for each other."

Fairydust,<p>I believe we are in basic agreement because I definitely don't think time out together without the kids is a problem. I have been fortunate this time around to have trusted grandparents nearby and have had opportunity for that as you have, plus as my older children got old enough, they were able to watch the younger ones as well.<p>What I have a problem with is when people do not validate a nursing mother's need to be with her baby and vice versa. Some mothers are able to pump and leave bottles and are comfortable with that; others are not. Some babies are able to switch from bottle to breast rather easily; others are not.<p>While Mother A may have no anxiety about leaving her baby for an evening out, Mother B may have great anxiety. It may cause Mother B physical and emotional distress to be apart from her baby beyond a certain amount of time, and/or Baby B may have major separation anxiety as well, and it may cause resentment toward the H if she gives into his selfish demand to put her and/or the baby through that.<p>Because of individual differences in such matters as with individual differences in many other matters, it is consistent with the rules of care and protection to find ways to enthusiastically agree, and that is where Dr. Harley's creative brainstorming comes in, which is what I was advocating.<p>It is legitimate for you to want to get out for an adults-only evening when that is available, and it is legitimate for another mother to wish to delay that as long as she is willing to agree to viable alternatives that will enhance the marital relationship as well.<p>Thought you all would enjoy this one regarding the condemnation of the BS for not mind-reading. I always left the decision whether to conceive another child up to each of my husbands. At the end of M#1, my ex-H actually said this: "I never wanted [number] children! You should have known that!" So, I was supposed to interpret the statement, "Let's have another baby!" to mean, "Whatever you do, DO NOT GET PREGNANT!!!!!"<p>Is it any wonder I have trust issues? [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]

Fairydust -
I really had to laugh at your wallet/sperm donor comment. They are probably just really unhappy, as I was. I feel for them.<p>Conqueror - You stated it all so well, elaborating on me point of individual needs. Individual babies, mommies and daddies. I feel for your situation. My H definitely wants his children but he lied about his feelings toward them and their arrival's affect on our marriage.<p>Fairydust - It may be hard to see why we can't all just leave a bottle with Grandma. Besides not having a "Grandma" around, temperaments can make all the difference. Maybe you will see it if we look at your comment regarding your babies and restaurants.<p>My kids were great in restaurants until they really walked - then they wanted to run. Until then it was basically leave them in sling, car seat and let them sleep or look at the lights. Or when they were older babies, sit them in a highchair, give them a little food while the wait staff and other customers flirted with them.<p>Your need to get out is strong and your babies comply. It is the POJA and creativity that come in if that isn't the case.<p>Also, I would like to point out that while SH's comments on children may be beneficial to a recovery, it still may not be the ideal for a child. Of course, a strong marriage is the foundation for a family. There are just many ways to do it, not only the date night in our very disconnected, very narrow culture.<p>SH is an expert on rebuilding marriages following an affair, but he is not a child-rearing expert. Most of us got into this AP style because we or our spouses or society at large didn't get what they needed as children and we wanted to do better. It doesn't do much for the child if one neglects his needs in order to save a marriage. He may grow up to have similar problems or worse if his needs aren't met. <p>PLEASE BE CLEAR. I AM NOT SAYING THAT YOU ARE NOT MEETING YOUR CHILD'S NEEDS. I am only saying that taking the advice for undivided attention too far, for example, could truly neglect a child's needs when that child's welfare is often the motivating factor for saving the marriage.<p>It may be hard to see when your children are little, especially for husbands. It seems that they are dependent and small forever. But it is a blink of an eye before they are off with their friends and then off to college. My children are little but I had a fair hand in raising my younger siblings. It gives you an intense perspective on how precious and short this time is. By the way, I kind of helped to screw at least one of them up. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

BTW- I am learning more about anger management with children so I can go back to being a good mother [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Oh, I forgot to provide an example for "what we didn't get" as children.<p>My H has an intense need, a compulsion really to have me in the bed at night. Despite very good reasons for me to occasionally sleep elsewhere he would become VERY upset if he didn't wake up to me or found me missing. It used to result in days long anger. Now it results in deep depression.<p>Can you guess why I believe in the family bed? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

I messed up on the breastfeeding (bottle fed) but one thing my ex-H and I did *right* was the family bed. We loved it, both agreed 100% with it, and implemented it fully. Our son has disabilities, and slept with us for a very long time (until he was about 10). The girls were out by 4-5 for the most part. They always had a place to go (seperate beds in their own room) if they so chose, but if they wanted to sleep with us, they were welcome.<p>I am enjoying the remembering by reading through this thread.<p>Just wanted to drop by and give my support.<p>My kids are within months of turning 21, 20 and 18... so it's a little late to change that breastfeeding problem... I really wish I could go back though - I would try much harder.

new-beginning -
I am guessing by the ages of your children that you didn't receive much support for breastfeeding. You sound like a great mom and when your children are having children it will be good for them to understand that you had regrets about bottlefeeding and why. Forgive yourself and focus on all of the decisions you made for them that you are proud of!<p>BTW - I find it interesting that you are called new beginning as "New Bginnings" is the member magazine for La Leche League!

NB,<p>Hey, we have the same initials! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>You will never know how much your message means to me. <p>It's a very long story, and I won't bore you with it, but let's just say that you touched me deeply today. Thank you!<p>You are right about the bottle/breast issue 20 or so years ago. I knew it would be a "nice" thing to do, but it just seemed "easier" to bottle feed (is that a crack up or WHAT?). I'd heard of Le Leche by the time my third was born, but since the first two were bottle fed, it just seemed like I shouldn't break the "tradition" -- and yes, my kids know how I feel about that issue too... I have no doubt they will be wonderful parents when they chose to have children.<p>Anyway, thank you again for the kind words, and CARRY ON!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]