Thanks SS had a pleasnat peaceful day. My emotions seem to have calmed down again. Yes it is this w/e when I meet with oother DBersa and I/m not in the habit of drinking much so will stick mainly to mineral water or orange juice. I believe God alloewed me the strong emotions yesterday to help protect me at the w/e. I have that memory to hold onto.
Thanks for all you input Jante

Hi J,
I spent a little time while eating lunch today to read over some of this thread (past posts. ) I see I ask you quite often how you feel. I wondered ( to my self) why? I really don't ask others those kinds of things. Perhaps it is this. Perhaps I felt strongly that in your case there was a real chance of success. <p>You have tried so hard. I know others have also, and that they hurt just as bad. I wish we could help everyone and that everyone's marriage could be saved, but we all have agency and we can choose to do wrong and God won't force us to change. ( Tho I don't think Jonah liked his consequences very much when he sailed for Joppa instead of going to Niniva.) He can encourage us strongly and he knows how to do it, and what to do. Hence your strong feelings of love. You needed that kind of gift, and it came to you. <p>I admit, I had been very worried about you. You had felt H was making progress, and then in a short time, you seemed to forget all about it. I was praying for you as much as for H. I wondered what had happened to change your feelings in so short a time. You need friends, support and help from those friends. But, you don't need single male friends, or close married male friends. So, if I worry in vain, please forgive me. But I'll worry until my W and I meet your H and you at the Bar of God and he says to all of us " Well Done." <p> Now, I don't mean to have you think that I believe you were going astray, but I could see no real reason for you to loose so much love in so short a time. And as a mother, you know how we sometimes worry when our children are gone and don't come back on time. ( Perhaps they were in an accident? Then the telephone rings, and we know it's the authorities ringing about the accident - we pick it up, and its the neighbor about getting their mail because they are going on vacation. Son walks in while you are still talking and is OK. So, I would rather worry for nothing, but I will still worry. God is only one side, and I know the other exists. <p>I know I sometimes ramble. I suppose I just want you to know that I (we) care. There are people all over the world that want success and happiness for you, and everyone - that are willing to help when they can. Faith in God can do wonderful things. <p>I only have one more suggestion for talking with H. Quit thinking about it for a few days. You need a rest. It will all come together for you when you need it to. (note, I didn't say you should stop praying about it.) <p>I always have trouble wondering how to close my thoughts. Comes from being shy I suppose. Perhaps I will just leave. <p>SS

No, love alone is not enough.<p> jd

Hi SS and JD.
SS
Thanks for your thoughts and care. As for the past few weeks. I had built up every little incident as a positive but once they weren't there to remind me I began to lose sight of the good and saw only the bad in my marriage. I found myself dwelling on the way things went wrong, thedifferent women he'd been with and the length of the relationship with the present g.f . Because he'd mentioned her again I was no longer able to kid myself that it was over. That led me to start to wonder what it would be like to get out altogether and even to start a new relationship. There was no one person just an overall impression. I had stiopped seeing H's face in my future a couple of weeks before.
In some ways these doubts and fears and wonderings have occurred in the past , I perhaps just expressed them more clearly.
I'm now back to the point where I will wait, possibly even for the taok with H as it no longer seems important. Will see how i feel after praying about it for the weekend.
Jante

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I found myself dwelling on the way things went wrong, the different women he'd been with and the length of the relationship with the present g.f . Because he'd mentioned her again I was no longer able to kid myself that it was over. <hr></blockquote><p>Some personality types would have mentioned "her" to see if they could get a reaction from YOU. I don't know if he was doing this or not. Perhaps it scares him that you do not react any longer? <p>Really, we don't know, do we. ( But God STILL knows, so go with what he directs.) <p>Also J, don't feel bad about your feelings. They are real, and feelings are God given. We have them for a purpose. All of the things in your quote are true. You have lasted longer than many would be able to. To have feelings of love restored to you is a great gift. I can't believe it is for no reason. I have said before, and I will say again. I believe it will work for H and you. <p>You really are a private ( shy) person. You have not said much about these feelings ( from your quote) You have mentioned g.f. but have not really commented lately that it was bothering you. I had thought that you had "detached " as many do. ( I don't know everything, and this is a big error for me .) <p>I am not making any kind of judgment when I say these things. Just making observations about things I notice. For me, the more I know about myself, the easier it is to change and improve. It also helps me to plan for the future, I know how I react to things that may happen. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> . I had built up every little incident as a positive but once they weren't there to remind me I began to lose sight of the good and saw only the bad in my marriage. <hr></blockquote><p>J, there are not many good things going on in your marriage now. There may be good signs from H, he may show signs of being interested in you, but you have had a rough 18 months and he is not helping you, or acting much like a husband should. So, it would be hard not to have these thoughts. We all get them, even people with healthy marriages do sometimes. Don't be afraid share your feelings. We are here for support. <p>I am really glad that God has changed your heart. I am happy for you. I wish you a nice weekend.<p> I will be traveling tomorrow with our church youth group for a two day youth conference. ( I am a driver, we don't have trains in this part of the country) Will get back Saturday night. I may not post again until Monday. <p>SS

Have a great weekend SS- I too am away over the weekend. jante

Hi J,
I hope you had a happy weekend. <p>We talk a lot about marriages on this site. ( I wonder why?) But there are always many more things going on in our lives, some good, some bad. I hope the other things in your life are going well. <p>I found myself as I drove 200 miles friday and 200 back on saturday wondering how your sons were doing. ( btw, my daughters each sent e-mail to the address you gave, did it work? ) <p>Raising children is always difficult even when there are no problems in the marriage. Having H gone complicates things, makes it worse. I have marveled that only your oldest son has misbehaved. I have had some other ideas about your sons, if you ever want me to, I will give them to you. ( I don't know if I ever have given you my sons ages, right now they are 24, 23, 21, 16. ) I know about boys - at least a little bit. <p>Well, please report on your weekend. Really we are strangers, will probably never meet. But we seem to worry about the people we meet here and hope the best for them. So, I worry ( care? don't know the exact word to use) about you. <p>SS<p>[ June 17, 2002: Message edited by: still seeking ]</p>

Hi SS and thanks had a lovely time meeting up with a group of people who were like minded in trying to save their marriages.
God is very obviously speaking to you and throughtyou to me. The one thing that has happened over the weekend- or more to the point since I got back is problems with the boys. More of the same arrogant rude obstructive behaviour from eldest, middle one beginningt o mimic language and actions of eldest although I am still able to turn his behaviour round by talkin/ acting on his behaviour. And youngest spent half an hour crying last night wanting his dad to return home. Since then I have asked the boys
1. Did anything happen with dad over w/e- answer from all three NO.
2. Were they upset bothered that I'd been away and they didn't know who with.Again NO was the answer.
Middle son has since said that things like his brother arguing with me causes him to have flash backs to when his dad said he was leaving. That understanably upsets him.
Eldest son has since asked if dad is coming on Saturday- when i said yes he groaned and when I added that he was staying over until Sunday as I was taking their Gran back home he moaned even more.
I have spoken to H about our talk- he won't ber visiting tomorrow but on Wed when I am at uni . I have given him three options but said he has to choose one as we need to talk about the children. I'm awaiting his reply.
Thanks for your concerns and prayers.
jante
ps sons email isn't working so need to speak to H about getting it set up.

Hi Jante,
Working with children is difficult and there is not a stock answer for what is happening but I will give a short reply. <p>You need to spend most of your time preparing for discussion with H. You need to go with yours and his ideas of how to help sons. For now, I will just try to get you to think about some things. <p>I believe youngest is just what he says, he is worried about having a father. All you can do is love him and tell him whatever your faith in God lets you tell him about his father. <p>One thing I have learned about children ( and grownups for that matter) is that they often cannot give a reason for what they are doing. Your sons really don't know why they are doing these things. They can't connect any reasons for the way they feel with anything that has happened. <p>I say that adults do this also in many cases because, well, look at H. Does he really know why he left all that he believed in and committed spiritual suicide so to speak? He may give reasons but you and I know there is more to it. <p>After nearly five months of trying to practice what I have learned at this MB site, I feel I am just starting to understand myself. There is a lot to learn and we often understand our own feelings least of all. But this is just a sidebar. <p>I believe older son is testing boundaries. I have 6 children over 16 years of age. Every one of them has done this testing. They want you to stop them. They expect you to do it. But they act like you are committing a crime when you do. You will do a lot of explaining the rules the next few years. There is not an easy way to repair this one. Middle son seems to just be copying oldest son. <p>All three are trying to get a reaction from you. They need more love and re-assurance with their father gone. They want attention. I believe that you are giving it properly. With you gone away and them not knowing where or doing what ( if I interpret your post properly) they all reacted. First dad leaves, now what is mum doing? ( Sounds like your trip is 180? Probably Mum knows but no one else? ) <p>I do believe this is part of the weekends disturbance but they would not understand their feelings. <p>Many posts ago, I gave you a little of what I have learned in a parenting class that W and I have taken. I realize now that with out the background information it is probably not of much use to you. So we should start with some simpler and easier to work with ideas. <p>Two things for right now.
1. Keep giving love and attention, but don't let any of them think they, by themselves are more important than the health of the family together. ( in other words, they each need love, but the good of the family and the families needs come before what any one son may want. ) This also means that your needs ( since you are de-facto head of the family) come before sons needs. They should understand that you love them but you can't do every thing they desire. <p>2. Rules are rules, and they can not break them without consequences. They ( rules) are for the good of the family and its members to bring order and safety to the family. They cannot choose which ones they will/ won't obey. Disobedience brings consequences ( negative). Obedience brings consequences ( good.) <p>You must already do these things pretty well. ( just my feelings) <p>I just wanted to share my thinking for you to compare with yours. <p>This part ( what sons are thinking) is not very hard. But each child is different and so how to best help them may differ. We can talk more about it, but talk to H first. <p>Oldest son is also thinking " If dad is going to leave us, then there is no reason for me to concern myself with dad." It is resentment. Son does not understand this, and the only way to fix it (other than time and maturity) is for H to come back. <p>This is the short version ( ouch) We can talk as you would like to do so. <p>J, as I have mentioned before, I believe you already know the answers to most of the things we discuss. I just feel that putting it on paper, and reading it helps it become more clear to us. <p>Don't be afraid to ask husbands feelings about they way things are going, something along the lines of " how do you feel about the situation we are in." and " what do you think we should do about it?" God will guide you, I really believe this. <p>I am just someone that wants to help others, and feel God expects us to do so if we are able. As always, do what you feel is right. <p>Do you have any questions for me? <p>SS<p>PS, most WH's don't seem to spend as much time with their children. The fact that your H does is part of the reason I believe he will respond and return. I feel very strongly about this. May God grant that it is true.

SS thankyou once again for responding and sharing your insights and thoughts. Today h rang to say he wouldn't be able to get up to see boys tonight ( his usual visiting time) or tomorrow when he has said he might come instead. He plans to take the boys camping so i suggested he told him himself. the two oldest both said they didn't want to go but h has insisted. i agree with him, it follows on from what you said about the good of the whole family. I believe they need to spend time doing things with their dad away from computers, TV etc.
When they had finished speaking to dad they all came to complain to me. I supported their dads plans. they then asked why they should have to see dad when he chooses but not when they want. They have said that if he sn't coming back to live than they don't want to see him at all! I haven't made a response to that comment other than to say that i do understand.
H has agreed to see me on Sunday to talk things through- though hes very much putting back onto ME wanting to talk about things. however I did tell him last night that it was the boys i felt we needed to talk about.the boys seem to be much more settled with me at the moment.I am praying about how to express all this to h without seeming to pursue or to LB in a big way. I want to be careful of making judgements but need to be a voice for the children.Am also seriously considering whether it would be a good idea to move back to our scottish home. This is an idea that has kept coming back to me and is something that the boys would be happy with. It would also be a big 180 for me which wasn't the reason I thought of it - it feels very much like a seed God is sowing in my heart.
I feel our conversations are very much me-sided but find I'm not sure what to ask you. I believe God is using you as a voice for him to express His ideas that I need o think about.
Jante

Hi Jante, you wouldn't believe what my spell checker says I ought to put in place of your name. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> H has agreed to see me on Sunday to talk things through- though he's very much putting back onto ME wanting to talk about things. <hr></blockquote><p>That would be pride. I believe he wanted to talk also. It would be hard for him to bring it up, after all the times he has said that marriage would never work. He has to say this. I really believe he wants to have Relationship talk. If I was to meet him and ask him, he would deny it. He does not understand himself very well.. If you think about how he reacts to different stimuli, it may help you know how to approach him. You have this inside of you already, God will help you bring it out and examine it - and understand it. You especially have the last 18 months to guide you but you will find that you remember things from all your married life that will help also.
I cannot believe that someone with a history of good could have this kind of pride and never doubt, or never have times when they had regrets. He has to have them, but he can't let you see. <p>I don't know the best way to explain to him that he is losing his sons. Some day, they would come back to want a relationship with him but who knows how long it would be. He only has a short time to change things. I don't think he knows this. <p>There is a chance that he will take any conversation about sons becoming distant as a ploy by you to get him back. So you worry about that. It's a valid concern. Feel your way along when you speak to him. Don't be afraid of it, he is already gone, you can't drive him away by speaking to him now, especially because you have learned so much. You will do fine. <p>I am a pretty direct person, If I were you, and talking to him and he seemed to feel that talking about sons was just a way to persue him, I would probably say something like this. " T, by now you know me pretty well. This isn't a game I am playing. I have to live with them every day and what is happening is not pretty. You may loose them. Sure, I love you and would like you back, but I won't play games with the children to make it happen. By far the easiest thing would be for us to find a way to get back together, I am willing, so that depends on you. In the mean time, lets see if we can find a way to help sons not loose their father, OK?" I would praise him for being willing to spend time with them, but tell him that it is not enough.<p>I will leave the discussion about sons having to spend time with him when they don't wish to for another time. That is a few pages all by itself. <p>How far away is Scottish house? Would you have to get another job? If you have those feelings, there must be a reason for it. Always do as God directs, he knows best. ( I ask for curiosity sake, not for any real reason. ) <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I feel our conversations are very much me-sided but find I'm not sure what to ask you. <hr></blockquote>
You started a thread to get responses, we respond. I should have worded my question like this," Do you have any questions for me about how boys act? I have been through the teenage years with three of them, and am in the middle of it with the 4th one. They change quite a bit between 11 and 16, I would be glad to answer any questions you have."
That make more sense? I should explain myself better. Please forgive me. <p>That said, you should not be afraid to disagree, give more information and ask for a re-evaluation or ask questions. You are a very humble person who doesn't like to offend others. I suspect you may be different when you are with your sister. You also have a strong will, cannot stand disrespect, and expect others to do right in every situation. You have been very strong to show such resolve in the face of the betrayal that you have seen the last 18 months.<p>One of these days I am going to slip in something about you wear purple socks, with pink dots on them and see if you say anything. Actually if I continue making these statements, I will get it wrong someday - if I haven't done so already. I just make observations based on what I think I can see ( in a few paragraphs.) <p>I have not started a thread, I had found most of my answers by reading the information on the site, and I got HNHN and Love Busters and read them. I seem to get help by just reading a little each day and if I feel strongly I can help someone, I post. I hope I can help here, I feel to post here, so I do. I also enjoy visiting with you. In my case there was no A. I felt a need to improve myself. W and I have been involved in helping some family members with M problems lately. My wife remarked this morning as we talked, that with the state the world is in, its a good thing we found MB and could strengthen our M so that we would be better able to stand the troubles of the world in the future. We share a great deal of love daily. I hope to see the same for you and your husband soon. I believe I will see this. <p>There are always many things I would say, could say, if there were more time, or if I could type faster, but that's it for today. <p>SS<p>[ June 19, 2002: Message edited by: still seeking ]</p>

I have another question - ( does this bother you? ) <p>I know during the beginning of the time that H was gone, you did some pretty amazing things to try and get him back. So, this question. <p>Does H respect the things you say? If you recommend doing someting ( helping sons for instance) does he usually accept your suggestion, or does he propose something else? Does he listen to you carefully and respond based on what you have suggested? Or does he kind of ignore what you are saying?

Hi SS ,
Thanks for the complimaemnts and yes I am more likely to offend my sister than any one else but even then I try not to. I don't wear purple socks with pink spots- or any other colour spots!!!
The sort of person I am is one who tries to live according to my understanding of Christs teaching, especially on love. I don't always succed but thats my aim.
The move to scotland qwould be a 300 mile move - back to where we were when h dropped the bomb!.
Yes i would have to look for work but would probably do supply teaching and go back to running a bed and breakfast in our home. The property was the root of much of our trouble and I believe H aw it as a rejection of him. There are a number of practical issues to be considered but I am praying and asking God for confirmation if these thoughts are from him.
H does listen and respect what I say with regard to the children, just not with regard to our relationship. He usually acts on anything I recommend with the children and the current pattern of visits etc I started by asking him to visit regularly when he does. I feel he should be thinking for himself and trying to consider the boys and what they all- he and the boys neeed to rebuild the relationship.
Jante

Hi J, <p>I just did an edit to the previous large post and added some about talking to H about sons. <p>I'll be back later today. <p>SS

After reading what you say about returning to your home, I had these thoughts. <p>What would happen if J said this to H? <p>T, I am moving back to our home to wait for you. Please don't take to long, we all need you. It's time for us to do it, please help make this work."<p>[ June 19, 2002: Message edited by: still seeking ]</p>

Hi J,
Good, aahhh - good evening , as I suppose it will be when you read this. <p>I have done some more thinking - and these are my thoughts - this is unusual for me to comment this way - these are uncut thoughts. <p>J is an amazing person, I wish her H could really see what is happening, he would be back home in an instant ! She says she is just someone that tries to follow Christ's teachings. Does she realize that if everyone would do as she tries to do, this world would become as heaven? <p>Now, lets see,
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I don't wear purple socks with pink spots- or any other color spots!!! <hr></blockquote>
It looks like she will respond with feeling - if you say the right things ! Oh, my, I'm sorry. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I just wanted to see if I could get you to smile, now I wonder if I have gone to far? Not! <p>When I mentioned your sister, I don't think you would try to offend her, I just meant you would not worry as much about how you talked to her, or what you say. You would not be as guarded with her. J, I just make these comments to try to understand you better, partly for fun, partly because if you will confirm what I think I am seeing, my advice to you will be worth more, and be more accurate. With the little bit of information that I get, it's hard to be "spot on" always. Please tell me if you ever disagree with me, and why. I believe God can, and does help us to help each other, but I also believe he expects me to use the talents, and brains I have as much as possible, and that he will do the rest after you and I have done all that we can. <p>Here is another question, ( the question is based on the above statement. ) <p>If I were to be a neighbor to your H, would he and I get along? Could you see us being friends? You may need more information to be able to answer this - you really don't know much about me. But do your best with it. Answer with comments - give me a little background on why you say what you do. <p>Regarding moving back to Scotland, what an interesting thought. It opens up all kinds of possibilities to my mind. Is H between you and that property, or is he in the other direction? <p>How would it affect his job for him to move back ? I mean, for marriage to work, he would need to get another job closer to that home wouldn't he? Just kind of thinking as I type. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> H does listen and respect what I say with regard to the children, just not with regard to our relationship. <hr></blockquote>
I feel that this ( first half of quote ) is good. Sounds like he may have pride, but is not stupid and realizes you are still his partner in child rearing. BTW, I feel the 2nd half of your quote is about to change. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I feel he should be thinking for himself and trying to consider the boys and what they all- he and the boys need to rebuild the relationship. <hr></blockquote>
What they really need is for him to love, honor, and respect their mother, and treat her like Christ intends him to do. He needs to come home. There is no other right solution. I wish he had a friend who would gently tell him this in the right way. ( I suspect he is distant from many of his former good friends. Because of him leaving you, he can't face them.) <p>OK, there is no other right solution, but you have work with what you have got. In most cases, the H says something like " your mother and I just couldn't get along, so we are divorced and we will just have to go on. However, he can't say anything like that, because it's not true. Does he have a hard time responding if sons ask him why ? I would bet he has a really hard time. If he has a hard time reconciling what he has done and it is difficult to rationalize it to them, he is a pretty honest person ( usually. ) This is one of the reasons I believe he will return. ( I wish I knew when) <p>Here are his options as I see them in proper order:<p>1. Come back and be a family again.
2. Spend much more time with them. This will help, but it would be very hard to do living apart. ( see #1)
3. Exert stronger discipline ( temporary)
4. Reason with them ( He will loose them for a time and probably in their mid to late 20's they will develop another relationship with him) <p>I believe his only solution short of returning home is to spend more time with them.
Don't give him solutions unless he asks for them, tell him what is happening and ask him what he thinks. Get him to talk. After he is finished, if he does not bring up # 1 as a possible solution, then I believe you should bring it up with this (see below) in mind.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> The sort of person I am is one who tries to live according to my understanding of Christ's teaching, especially on love. <hr></blockquote> At this point, if you have made up your mind on going back to Scotland, you could throw that in too. <p>What a lot of things you have to consider when you talk. Don't let it overwhelm you. You have faith, you know God will help you. Examine your heart, is their any reason why God would not help you? No there is not. ( I am not God, and I don't officially speak for him, but even I know that one.) Trust him to give you answers and he will direct your conversation. He will also prepare H. This I do know for sure. You will feel it is true as you read this, that he really will help. Put your faith in him, he will not fail you or forsake you. <p>You ( speaking of your H here) can't raise children to follow God, not follow him yourself, and expect them to continue on without you as though nothing had happened. He can do damage control only, until he returns. He can't make everything right while he is away. Part time parenting never works as well as full time parenting does. He needs to understand oldest S's feelings on church too. It's just going to get worse without H in home. <p>
Well J, I'll get off my soap box and say good bye for a time. <p>SS<p>PS, I have one other thought to add. There is another side to all this. The other side does not want H to return, it does not want reconcillation, it does not want sons raised correctly. Someone from that side will try to intervene and ruin all this good work that you have done. Watch for it, don't let it side track you. God has already restored your love, he can make the rest happen also. Trust him, but watch and be careful. Follow your promptings from God. OK?<p>[ June 20, 2002: Message edited by: still seeking ]</p>

Hi SS, don't have much time at the moment so have read your post and will give it some thought and reply when I get time which may not be until Friday. I'm fine though so no worries. Jante

Hi Jante, <p>I am leaving this afternoon ( evening to you) to pick up my 17 year old daughter from a university program she has been attending this week. W and I will be traveling about 265 miles there and same back. ( Travel today, return Saturday evening.) <p>You may have already had a talk with H by the time I post again. <p>I believe you are able to follow Gods promptings so I won't worry about you. <p>As I have prayed the last few days, I have had some strong feelings. I believe you and H will reconcile. I feel these struggles are to prepare you for other things that will happen in your life. You will have another life changing event that your whole family will go through. (I don't believe it will involve death or illness, please don't worry.)
Please forgive me for not saying more. I can only say what I am given to say. <p>You have been prepared to accept what the Lord will teach you. He has trained you to understand his answers to you, and to listen to the quiet voice of his spirt. He has put ideas into your mind and helped you to understand that they come from him. I believe if this is right, and I am helping to lead you on the right path, he will help you to feel that it is right. I believe that if I were to mislead you, you would know it. <p>This is an odd post even for me. I don't usually make these kind of comments. I rarely feel this strongly about the things I say on this fourm. If I have caused turmoil in your mind, please forgive me. Again, I can only say what I am given to say. <p>Watch and be careful, you will come to know what you should do, and then something will happen that will cause you to doubt what you are going to do. Don't be swayed. Pray for srtength. I feel strongly that you will be fine. Your sons are fine young men, they will be a great strength to you all your life, and bring you much happiness. <p>I need to stop now. Isn't it wonderful how God works in our lives. He is so kind to us. He doesn't stop the bad from happening, it brings us growth. But he can turn all our bad experiances to our good in the end. <p>SS<p>[ June 20, 2002: Message edited by: still seeking ]</p>

Hi SS hope you have a really great weekend.
To your questions and comments:
If I were to be a neighbour to your H, would he and I get along? Could you see us being friends?<p>I really can't say. perhaps it would be easier to describe the sort of person H has been friends with in the past. Some one who liked a laugh, enjoyed a drink or two at the pub, enjoys sailing, was willing to listen to h and take advice. H has a wide knowledge and enjoys discussing many issues.<p>Is H between you and prop[erty or is he in the other direction.<p>The scottish property is approx 300 miles from where i live at the moment and 450 miles from H's place at the moment. He would have to revert to the way we lived before the separation with H coming bqack for weekends, but that would mean friday night until Monday morning which would give more time with the children. I would have to negotiate with him whether I remained in the home when he saw children or went to visit others. However where ever we live if marriage is to work H either needs to change job and move close to home for work or we as a family need to move to be near his work. that was the issue which brouyght the A and separation out in open. I recognised the way we growing apart and said I wanted to move to live near H's work as he couldn't find a job near our home. Still feeling not sure about the possibility of moving north so will continue to let that simmer for clearer guidance from God.
"What they really need is for him to love, honor, and respect their mother, and treat her like Christ intends him to do. He needs to come home. There is no other right solution. I wish he had a friend who would gently tell him this in the right way. ( I suspect he is distant from many of his former good friends. Because of him leaving you, he can't face them.) "
Amen to that and you are right so far I'm not aware of anyone pointing this out to him. A frioend of ours recenrtly found out the situation ( hes American and we hadn't been in touch since the separation ) and he took H's cell phone number and said he wanted to call him. not sure if he has.
posted June 20, 2002 10:18 AM
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Hi Jante,
I am leaving this afternoon ( evening to you) to pick up my 17 year old daughter from a university program she has been attending this week. W and I will be traveling about 265 miles there and same back. ( Travel today, return Saturday evening.) <p>You may have already had a talk with H by the time I post again. <p>I believe you are able to follow Gods promptings so I won't worry about you. <p>"As I have prayed the last few days, I have had some strong feelings. I believe you and H will reconcile. I feel these struggles are to prepare you for other things that will happen in your life. You will have another life changing event that your whole family will go through. (I don't believe it will involve death or illness, please don't worry.)
Please forgive me for not saying more. I can only say what I am given to say. "
Thankyou for having the courage to share what you believe God is saying I believe God is using you as hHis voice to eme at times when i wouod find it easy to give up the struggle.
Again thanks I hope you have had a really good time as a family.
jante

Hi SS Hope you hade a good weekend.<p>Well had talk with H. He didn'[t raise the issue but did come in saying he wanted to go sailing one weekend in July and so wouldn't be comning to see the children. I said we needed to talk and described the childrens behaviour this last week. ( My mum and reassured me yesterday that their reactions were needing attention and it wasn't in my mind)
H said that he didn't want to hurt the boys and perhaps if he had them down at his place it would help. Talk then moved into OR rtalk. H said he saw the future as us divorced and his future with OW. When asked he confrmed he was living with her and had taken her to our scottish home the last bank holiday and that he wanted to spend weekend sailing with her in JUly. I pointed out how the children would view this 3rd weeken in 8 away from them as him putting the sailing before them. he disagreed.
I also said I was concerned cos children no longer wanted to go to church as he didn't. He said there was nothing he could do about that.
I went on to say that while he could file for divorce next march if he wished to I wouldn't stop loving him and praying for the marriage to be reconciled. He said he couldn't understand after what he had done to me. I said that it had nothing to do with what he did, but that i had made a commitment before God and that i still loved him. Pointed out that no matter what son did how often he hit me or spat at me I wouldn't stop loving him or 'divorce ' him so it was same with my feelings towards H.
I then told H that despite that because it hurt so muc to think of him with OW etc I wouldn't be spending any time with him in future. Unfortunately already regretting that.
HLater H hovered as i was preparing dinner so i went over and hugged him and he hugged back. I told him that i wanted him to be happy and i wasn't convinced that he was. he agreed that with so much on his plate it was hard to be happy but also said that he wasnm't unhappy either. After that we sat with kids and ate dinner. End of OR talk. I find it very hard to assess whether anything goodhas come out of this. Help.
Jante