Greetings Jante,
I think you are spot on.

You need to understand that the reason you resist some of the advice you are getting ( have him call a taxi, doing plan B.) is because you are already doing it the way you should. You need to know that, so I say it, and you will have feelings confirming it as you read this. You talk to God, he helps, you do as he teaches, things work. Things will continue to work. Keep doing as you feel you should do. I want you to understand that these thoughts are not original with me, I just try to pass them on.

There are two sides at work here. The good, and the bad. Things will continue to be stirred up for quite some time. The bad side will be visible. You will see it in your sons lives, perhaps in your other close family, perhaps at work. In every case, you should be able to see it for what it really is. Don't let it get to you. It will affect H also, ups and down will continue. Keep your faith, do what you know is right. Pray for strength, you will get it when you need it. You will have answers to the problems that come.

There will be times when you will be discouraged and in pain. When it comes, remember this - Just as the sun always comes up in the morning, and sweeps the mist away before it's burning heat, the love of God will sweep away your discouragement and pain as you go to him each day. I promise you, I know for I have been there myself.

1Cor. 2:9

SS

Thanks SS I'm feeling pretty positive about my interactions with my husband yesterday. I am now going to sit back and let the peace and pace continue as God directs.
Hope our family get together all works out- wow a get together in the 100's. My own family is very small but at Christmas husband's family got togtheer for his mothers 70th birthday and there were 20 of us. It was the immediate family ie their children and grand children. Had a great time and MIL ttok me on one side and told me to hang on in there as she saw so many positives in our situation. They are all christians and I know pray for h and I.
Jante

SS did your daughters get the emails.
Jante?

Yes they got the e-mails. They think it is great fun. I don't know how long they will want to keep it up, but it will be a good learning experience for them. Thank you. I think they replied last night.

I keep trying to post some ideas to you about H, but I can't do it. I don't if the timing is wrong, if it will work out with out them, or what, but I can't do it now. Sometimes I just don't understand the feelings I have, but I try do what I am supposed to do.

I will say a few things though.

Find ways to show H you love him by your actions. You just told H that you loved him, wanted to stay married, would wait for him to come back. Make sure your actions are consistent with what you told H in your talk with him. If you don't go with H and sons, make sure he knows why, explain about your feelings and how it hurts to be close to him when he has expressed desire to D. Be Honest.

Don't change your plan unless you have prayed about it and God confirms changes to you.

Progress is so slow, but to me it looks like positive progress. I am the type of person that usually only comments if I see something wrong, I need to say more when I think you are doing well. I am changing that but it is slow. So, I should say that I read your posts carefully and think you are doing a good job. I think touch is a good way to show love, and get love in return. It actually helps you when he lets you touch him, does it not?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Had a great time and MIL ttok me on one side and told me to hang on in there as she saw so many positives in our situation. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Next to you, she probably knows him better than any one in this world. That would be good if she continues to see positive. She may have communication with him that you don't know about. I don't think she would lead you on. I also remember that she visited you recently and gave the same advice, and that she would not see OW. Perhaps she is as loyal as you are.

I am not sure of total attendees yet at reunion. The numbers I quoted would be the most that would come. It is for extended family, not just close family. We should know in a few weeks what the total will be, could be that only half will come, but we will have fun in any case.

Are you really happy, or do you just say that so we won't worry?
SS

Hi,
Lets see, right about now ( as I write this) , H is probably visiting you and sons. Or Sons, if you are not going to be there, but you do something with your church tonight so you normally would not be home most of his visit anyway. I hope it goes well.

I finally am able to get this out, I still don't understand what was going on, but feel now is the time to present these ideas.
I have always thought sending a love letter to be a good idea. Still think it is. I believe you could make a timeline to cover from about now through October. Start out with a love letter, send other notes but change the tone of them a little each month and become more distant. In Oct you end up with a discussion of Divorce and what it would mean to you and he. This is the short version of an idea to let him see what D would do, or it is a plan B type of experience without the plan B.

Lets see if I can explain it better. You just told him you loved him, always would. To do different now would not be consistent with what you told him. However, feelings can change over time, so becoming distant over four months time would not be so far out of line with what you told him.

I can see you doing it by mail, e-mail or post, doesn't matter. You wouldn't need to actually speak to him about it. It may be easier to write it all out and make sure it is just right in any case.

I think a discussion of Divorce would have some of the same effect as plan B. Here are some things you could say ( as an example, you would need to change it to fit your personality, and situation.)

H, you have made it clear that you will be seeking a D. It is finally starting to sink in with me, I have thought of what it will mean, and will start preparing for it. There are sure to be many changes on our lives after it takes place. I have thought this out and would like to begin to make those changes now if you still intend to proceed.

( this is a rough draft, I am sure you could refine it and make it sound much better)
1. I love you still and would wish to reconcile, but there appears to be little chance of that now. I do not wish to remain single the rest of my life. If I re-marry, I am sure my new H will not like you coming to our home to visit Sons. We will have to arrange for them to visit you at your residence. Probably on weekends, it would be too late on week nights. I propose to send them on the train every other weekend. They have expressed that they don't like this idea but I can't see any other way. You could also meet them here and attend school activities , sporting events and such, but you should plan on arranging your own transportation. When I re-marry, I am sure my husband will frown on me fetching you from the train.

2. There is probably no reason for me to continue to see you. It breaks my heart to think of it, but I need to begin to separate from you. I will try to avoid meeting you for any reason. ( you supply the details of what must happen.)

3. Separation of property

4. Alimony
5. Child support payments.

6. Other things you can think of. I would be as hard on him as I could in a very long letter, spell out just what will happen.

Now, you need not have any intention of getting a D. But what will he think when he faces all of these things that he has put little or no thought into? I believe the tone should be full of humility, and regret. " I don't want this, but if you insist, I will prepare."

I would even consult a solicitor to make sure you do not make any false representations to him. If you included a note from one about alimony, and child support on their letterhead, ( to you, copy for him) it would probably shock him even more to find you were well prepared, and in earnest. I don't think he has really considered what he is doing, or what the outcome will be.

If you start working on it now, you could have it just as you wished by late October. Preparing for what he says he wants would still be consistent with what you have told him about your love for him, but he would begin to see the results of his choices. At this point, he would not have started D proceedings, so it would not be as big a blow to his pride to say " wait a minute, lets talk about this."

At the end of it, ask for comments, ask him - " Please give me your views on these things, I would like to know if you have any other thoughts. H, this is just a proposal, it is not final, will wait to hear your views." If you say something like this, you never have to do any of it, it's just a proposal. It gives you an out.

Well, that is the idea. It is just an idea, and I say again, never do what you feel you should not.
If you can use any part of it, you are welcome to it.

I don't know what happened tonight with H. It would be nice to hear he expressed a desire to come home. But I suspect it will still be some time. You probably won't see this ( post) until after he is gone, perhaps this is as it should be. Remember that not every contact will be good, but often they are. Over the last few months, it looks like improvement to me. Hold to positive thoughts, positive feelings. We care about you and your family.

SS

<small>[ July 02, 2002, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi SS and thanks for all your thoughts and comments as always they are so useful. I have seen h tonight. While he was here a male friend rang an asked me out for coffee on Saturday. H doesn't know him and he is very definitely only a friend,his wife has left him but he is determined to work and wait for her to comeback.nd I then discussed the coming weekends and he is seemed very uncomfortable when reiterating that he is still going sailing with his GF and so won't be seeing the boys one weekend. To make up for it he is planning to take them to see Robot Wars being filmed close to us and has invited me to join them, I have said yes.
I think you are right about my drawing slowly back and then writing the sort of letter you suggest I will begin to work on it. In the meantime I must write the love letter and send it with the prophecy etc.
Thanks again
Jante

One other thing I did today- i saw a book in a second hand book shop which i thought h would like so bought it and gave it to him. Just another sign of my on going love and interest in him. Jante

<small>[ July 02, 2002, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: jante ]</small>

Wow, a book too, I can't tell you anything, you are already doing it before I can say it. ( I like books too, that would mean something to me also.) Keep on, keep on.

The ideas for that letter will have to be re-written quite a bit. I mostly outlined it. You would have to modify it heavily for it to look like it was from you. Change the tone to sound like you would usually sound.

I bet H thinks that you don't want him to go sailing because you are jealous of OW spending time with him.
I don't know, he knows you are a good Mother, care about sons..... perhaps he is trying to make you jealous, so he keeps insisting that he go. That would be consistent with the profile I have for him.

J, one thing you must realize, if you ever write this letter, H may just say " Ok, lets do all of that, I'll file as soon as I can." I don't think it will be that way, but it could. So, you need to know that. ( I know you do, but I suggested the whole thing, so I have to say this.)

Since your H doesn't know anything about the 5 love languages, or emotional needs, you can probably see what kind of love he likes by how he used to try and give love. If we ( i.e., anyone) do not know about all this stuff, we tend to give what we want to get, not always what others want. You have already described his primary method, but you may be able to think of other ways to give to him if you give it some time in your mind. Perhaps you have already done this exercise, after thinking about it, you probably have.

I was going to do this post tomorrow, but here I am, doing it now. Robot Wars, I bet the boys will go for that. Even I would. I have not seen the show on the television ( I only watch about 2 hours a month, W says I am to busy,) but it is one I would watch if I happened to be home and it was on. My grandfather was a mechanic from about 1925 to about 1970 and I worked in his shop when I was small.( well, worked may be a little off, I hung around and handed him tools.) So those kind of things interest me.

He invited you, well, well, it continues. After thinking of all the reasons he could be doing this, the one that stands out most, is that he loves you and wants to be with you. In the context of all else going on, that is the only thing that makes any sense to me. It COULD be many other things, but it doesn't feel like it. Keep making deposits any way you can.

I can see he is an intelligent man in many ways. He would expect to be treated as such, it would be important to his ego. Did you mother him when he made errors? Take care of things for him? Or did you treat him as a partner in problem solving? Discuss things with him? Help him see the solution, and let him do the work?
Did you ( before he left) have the communication skills and understanding then to know how to build up his strengths and not demean him for his weaknesses? I know you do now, just wonder how he got to where he is, and looking for more ideas. Sometimes I get to thinking and just type along as I do, I don't have any strong feelings about this last paragraph, just wondering about him. It looks like he is very good at some things, very bad at others. You compliment each other very well. He does what you are not so good at, you do the same for him.

When friend called about coffee, did H catch on? Be careful with that, it could be good, that is, it could put the fear of losing you into him. It could also make him think you were telling a story when you said you loved him, and if he is insecure, it could make him doubt reconciliation. I don't know if he caught on as you talked, or if he even reacted to it at all, but be careful.

Did youngest son recover from his fears? Is he doing well?
SS

Thanks for the extra comments SS. No I didn't mother him and we always discussed and solved problems together or even he solved them and I went with it. This all really happened as far as I can see because of 2 things.
1. I became depressed after we moved into his dream home and i think he felt that in rejecting the house I was rejecting him.
2. He worked away from home during the week for two years and became more and more distant he got used to doing his own thing away and contined to do so when he was at home- I didn't put pressure on for him to stay at home with me in the evenings but accepted him being out sailing 3-4 nights a week but perhaps that was a mistake. I thought i was being understanding perhaps he thought I didn't care.
If he noticed anything about the conversation with friend last night he didn't ask. He did comment on the fact that i would be going out on Saturday and where i was going in relation to his plans time wise. My aim is to try and make him think what it would be like to lose me- rather like the letter you suggested and that my life is moving on, but I hope he doesn't think i don't care anymore. H knows that I have always been shy with men and he was always the only man for me so if he knows I'm having coffee with a man it probably will set questions in his mind but I don't think he'd jump to the conclusion that I was planning a new relationship.
Son has some photos to forward to your daughters showing caves near us with stalagmites and a photo of him. He'll be replying tomorrow as he has football tonight. Jante

<small>[ July 03, 2002, 01:03 PM: Message edited by: jante ]</small>

Hello Jante,
I am really having a hard time with the picture that I am seeing. The more questions I ask, more impressed I am with both of you. I am not seeing a marriage with years of problems that finally just blew up. I am seeing two good, solid people secure in their marriage. I spoke once about H getting lonely and seeking solace with someone else. But think I am seeing a bigger, better man than that from the picture you paint of him. It seems to me that it is far, far out of character for him to have done what he did. I can't imagine how he can live with what he has done.

You speak of being depressed about purchasing the home. How did this depression manifest itself? Did you argue? Were you withdrawn, distant? How did things progress during the two years? How did he react to what you were doing - was the sailing part of his withdrawal to you?

Did he just leave, and not come back or did he talk to you and tell you he was leaving?

Once you said he had trouble with money. I took that to mean that he is not careful how he spends, and he sometimes spends when he should not.

It could also mean that he is still paying for Levan and has no money to spare, or to live away from there, but he tries to do it anyway.
I am thinking the money problems were part of your depression? Was Levan part of the company that you mentioned earlier you had received a letter about that might put you in jail? Has this ever been resolved? How is it that L has not sold in two years? Or is H trying to keep it?

Why am I bringing all this up? It looks like to me that there may be more preventing him from coming home than just his relationship with you. I believe I can see some of the reasons you are considering moving back to Scotland. That would solve many of the other problems. It would not help with his job situation but God could solve that one by having him let go - if he wanted to do it that way. He may have a better way that I don't know about. ( He usually does, BTW.)

Did you ever speak with H about the sailing in the evening, or the being away from home so much and what it was doing to both of you? Perhaps you did not have the perspective you do now to see what was happening.

I can see some of your H in middle son. Just from the little bit I have read from him. He is very sure of himself, I believe he will do well in his life ( meaning your son.)

I don't worry about how often S and D's e-mail. I figure 2 or 3 times a week is plenty. My D's want to send photos of a camping trip we did also, but it may take them a while to get around to it. I have not encouraged them to spend much time on the computer ( so far in their lives) and they are not sure how to do things, so sometimes they have to wait for an older sibling or myself to help.

You shy? Really? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I hope you have sense of humor, I would hate to have you think I am serious always.

I can understand how it might work with the friend calling, meeting you for coffee. ( what ever happened to tea? ) I suspect you will be careful, seems you always are. But, well, this is serious business and I worry, even if I don't need to. I worry about everyone on MB, wish things were better for them, and for you. Really, you don't have to explain yourself to any of us here. You are very kind to speak with me, and I trust you will follow God's wishes for you, with, or without my comments. ( Even having said all that, I reserve the right to worry.)

Off work tomorrow to observe " Independence Day" here. Where we celebrate that we are not Brit's any longer. My family are mostly all from the British Isles so I feel close to all of the commonwealth countries anyway. I lived in Canada for a few years, my brother lived just outside of London for a while. ( I don't know how to spell it, or I would say where he lived.) I have a cousin that grew up 1/2 block from me that lives in England. And also, we ALMOST speak the same language.

Well, we have fun and get a day off work at any rate, but I may not post tomorrow. ( I may though, never tell with me.)

Bye,
SS

<small>[ July 03, 2002, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi SS well if you are also confused what chance do i have of understanding H - after all you're a man!!
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not seeing a marriage with years of problems that finally just blew up. I am seeing two good, solid people secure in their marriage. I spoke once about H getting lonely and seeking solace with someone else. But think I am seeing a bigger, better man than that from the picture you paint of him. It seems to me that it is far, far out of character for him to have done what he did. I can't imagine how he can live with what he has done.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is so true. It was entirely out of character and I am sure one of his problems now is forgiving himself. I once asked him if that was the case and he admitted it was. Unlike a lot on thses boards who have their spouses throw up all sorts of reasons why they are to blame my H rarely blames me but always says its his dfault and he can't understand how I can keep lovinh him with what hes done to me. in the past i have reminded him of Gods forgiveness as well as my own but he just wasn't ready to receive it.
When I was depressed I was moody, easily upset and very down. This was many though not all the weekends when he was home. i also begged him to sell Levan but for 2 years he wouldn't . Then one day he turned round and said "get the estate agents in" so I did. I thought he was finally doing it for me but within weeks i learnt of his first affair. For the next 5 months he tried to stop affair- and we made arrangements for me to get a job in Englad so he could live at home and commute. However having finished with one GF he started with another- and though it was possibly only meals out and presents at that stage I was too emotional to go with it til it burnt itsdelf out. H then decided that he would leave me and the chhildren, told them and encouraged me to continue with my plans to move. I did so partly cos of my dislike of Levan but also because it meant we were near enough for h to visit the children twice a week. I didn't know how long he would continue if he was having to fly back to Scotland every weekend with me in the house still.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It could also mean that he is still paying for Levan and has no money to spare, or to live away from there, but he tries to do it anyway.
I am thinking the money problems were part of your depression? Was Levan part of the company that you mentioned earlier you had received a letter about that might put you in jail? Has this ever been resolved? How is it that L has not sold in two years? Or is H trying to keep it?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Levan is a specialised type of property and so not easy to sell. that said my neighbours in Scotland also feel that H isn't serious about wanting to sell so that may be part of the problem. Its with an estate agent but being empty is not as attractive to view as when we lived there. The company was based in Levan but not part of it, the problems there are to do with not filing accounts. I have had it confirmed with Companies House that they finally received notification of my non directorship and so i am no longer liable. Obviously H still is. He assures me that he has dealt with it but its hard to know as he has assured me of that at least three times before.
Yes H is good at spending money without checking he can afford it. And he is still paying the mortgage on levan as well as his living costs where he is now. He has a highly paid job which if he was prudent would be plenty to meet all his normal outgoings.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did you ever speak with H about the sailing in the evening, or the being away from home so much and what it was doing to both of you? Perhaps you did not have the perspective you do now to see what was happening.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Towards the end I did comment that for all i had seen him in the week he may as well still be working away that week. H didn't make any comment that i can remeber and i didn't push it. I had always tried to be as forbearing as possible and had been sailing with him earlier in the year but due to surgery was unable to accompany him at all at that time., He did say he had mixed feelings about me sailing with him, he was glad i was learning as it meant we could take the boys out together and there would be two adults who knew what they were doing but he regretted the loss of 'His ' activity.
I believe i do have a sense of humour- but it has been rather hidden in the last few months. However recently i have had more opportunity to excercise it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Jante
ps have a great 4th july <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

One other point- you said you saw a strong secure marriage and others would agree with you. We had a new Christian student live with us for 18 months. She became an unofficial adopted daughter and my boys were her page boys when she got married. After i told her what had happened- after h left. She was very shocked because she had lived with us and thought our marriage was stong and 'ideal'. She said she had based her marriage on ours! So it wasn't just blindness to the problems on my oart. Jante

Hello J,
I can see you have been busy while I took a day off. Went to a small resort near here for swimming and rock climbing ( older children climb, W and I and youngest daughters swim.) Nice day. I feel guilty on days like this, wish all others on MB could have the same good family experience. At night and in the morning I plead with God to help everyone. The scripture says that if we have the faith of a grain of a mustard seed, we could move mountains. I seek to increase my faith that I might better be of help to others. And that brings us to this point.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Hi SS well if you are also confused what chance do i have of understanding H - after all you're a man!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I suspect you meant this half in jest, but let me take it a different direction.
Yes, I am a man, but just a man. All the talents and abilities we have come from God. He gives our intellect, our very life. J, you have invested a lot of time and prayer into understanding your H. It is only right that God should give understanding to you. All of us here, your Mum, and other friends can ( and I hope we do) help, but in the end it comes down to you and God. I must admit that I care what happens to your family. I pray for you and others here on MB every day. Relationships, Emotional Needs, all these types of things have always been hard for me. I came here looking for help just like others. I have learned that the only way I am of any use to help others is If I try to listen to God and pass on what he suggests. It is not an easy thing. Do I interject my own thoughts and ideas sometimes? Have I suggested what God intends? Do I understand what he wants me to do?

Oh what a frightening thing - that others trust us to help them when we are struggling our selves. I am coming to understand myself much better and it is helping me to help others, my children, my wife. Yes, I hope I can help others here also, but I don't know everything.

I could go on and on about this statement of yours, I am learning to think, look at things from other points of view. It is easy to see solutions for some that come here. Sometimes a pattern almost jumps out from what they say. It seems so obvious.

As I think I begin to see your H, he becomes more of a good person in my mind. Yet he is not acting that part. I know this is the case for many on MB, but it is a stark contrast here for me. He continues to be a good parent, even continues to help you and care for you in some ways. Many would call this the classic "Cake Eater." However, the more information I get about him, the less I believe he likes cake at all. There is something I am not seeing, a piece o f the puzzle seems to be missing and I can't put it all together and make sense of it.

I have one other idea about that, but it would not be of any value to you to share it with you and in fact could be bad for me to do so. It is enough to say that we are in the refiners fire and are being purified. That purification can take many forms. That which does not consume us, makes us stronger. Yet, we hurt for you, the pain is real, and ongoing. The fact that it improves us does not mean that it is painless.

All the questions I ask are to help me find that missing piece. Sometimes I think I may have found understanding, but each time, it gives me even less reasons for his actions.
I think I see a pattern of behavior that may explain something, and it turns out different than I first thought. I realize that I may not ever find that piece for you. That may not be my purpose here exchanging thoughts with you. However, if I can give you ideas, and support, you may be able to last long enough for it to work anyway. I don't know what God intends for me to do here in total, but I try to say what I believe he wants me to say to you.
One of the things these forums do for all of us, is help us clarify our thoughts. When you explain your feelings, it helps you understand them better. I believe you need to take some of the things you say here ( in post above about H and tell them to him. As I say this, I feel you probably have done so with some of them. What I am suggesting is sending him notes - one a week, or every other week, and laying out all of these things. Discussing his relationship with God, you considering moving back to Levan, and other things that come to you. I know you did send notes at one time, I won't go back and read that part but I recall they were love notes, thoughts, poems etc. Is that correct?

Perhaps you could communicate your thoughts on these and other things.

1. Why you still love him. (you could include things he did you like or appreciate, memories of the two of you, family outings, holidays, his strengths you depended on. )
2. Why you can forgive him.
3. Why God can forgive him.
4. What you felt at Levan, why you were depressed, your sadness that it may have caused him to doubt your love for him.
5. You are considering moving back to Levan, and what are his thoughts?
6. Your ideas on marriage and family. (and his part in this.)
7. Thoughts on each son and how they are doing. Why you think they are getting distant.
8. Your hopes for H in coming back to God. Why you think he can.
9. Why you don't wear purple socks with pink spots. ( sorry, it just came out)
You get the idea, you will have more thoughts about this than I do.

I know you have spoken with him about many of these, you are not the kind to leave things to solve them selves. I believe written word can sometimes do things that spoken word cannot. You would have time to work on the words, he would have time to read without pressure. As discussed earlier, you could become more distant in the way you communicate over a few months time. You could even preface it with something like this: " H, after our discussion, I feel there are things I must communicate before next spring when you have indicated you may seek D. I have some apologies to make, I want to explain some things, and I need to communicate about our sons. I will attempt to do so over the next few months so there will not be any loose ends in the spring. "

Give him a good reason why you need to send these notes, a neutral one, so he doesn't perceive it as just another attempt to get him back. Be careful about what words you use when talking about D. Don't say things like " you will seek D," be more vague, and give him an out - "you may seek D." Again, these are just examples, you would have to say it as you would say it.

There is a lot more I could say about how careful to be, not to pressure, what to preface it with etc. But, you don't need that, if you do this, you will do it well, and you will do it right.

Do you understand all the reasons you disliked Levan? Does H understand now, and does what happened make sense to him? Does he realized how you drifted apart? Can he see your remorse? Has he ever indicated remorse on his part?

I also believe that as I ask you questions, you will examine your heart and his, and come to a better understanding of what happened, and what is needed.

So many ideas, but they are just ideas. We do care but we just give thoughts, you have to sift, choose. Only do what you are comfortable with.

I wish I could tell him, be a good chap and get on home, they are worried about you. They miss you, and they need you. I wish It were that easy, but it's not.

SS

<small>[ July 05, 2002, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Thanks SS lotsof food for thought. I will return.
Jante

OK

Hi J,
I have some more thoughts on your sons.

I had a chance to speak to our third son Saturday as we worked weeding the garden. I asked him "what were the most valuable things we had taught him over the years." He named
1. Faith in God
2. We loved him.
3. Value system ( goes with #1.)
4. How to work.

I thought about number 4 quite a while. Son has been living 1,000 miles away from home. He had to do things for himself. He says some of his roommates were never taught how to work. They could not clean the bathroom, didn't know how to cook, had never run a vacuum cleaner in their life. He is glad his mother taught him all that. he says this is one of the things that helped him more than anything else so far in his life. He knows how to get along by himself. He says it affects everything he does, he has more confidence in himself, can help others better, just because he was taught to do his share in the home.

Just another idea that came to me to pass along.

SS

Hi SS, and thanks for your thoughts as always.
I am still contemplating the love letter and the right things to say and time to send it. Like you foten feel at the moment I can't seem to get the right words or sense of it being right so i'm waiting.
I have had another letter with reference to the company- now from Inland Revenue asking me for details of registered office. I have phoned them and sorted it out but I suspect serious problems on the way for H with regard to taxes etc.
I went for coffee with friend on Saturday. H simply asked if I had met up with him alright. No other comment.he has finished working on the web site for my job and has set it up for me. As always showing a confused side. he is away this w/e with his gf sailing.
The boys are all taught to help round the house, the older 2 vacuum there own rooms, help with cooking and have helped with the ironing although not a lot at the moment.They also take it in turns now to empty the dishwasher but before we had one theywashed and dried pots.
Olderst and middle one also help cut the lawn. the youngest will do his share as he gets big enough but despite being 8 he is the size of a five year old so some tasks are still beond him.
As to the faith idn God - I do my best but with their fathers example it is becoming increasingly harded for the eldest to find his faith- back to prayer.
I am finding myself increasingly detached from H and the situation- not upset or angry but not actively working on rel. either. not sure where that leaves me.
jante

Hi,
I was thinking about your H and his troubles last week. I think you can be a great help to him. I wonder if he remembrs that.

It seems to me that it is all tied up together. Your feelings about Scotland, his problems, your ability to help him. You made a great team. He would be foolish not to know that, but then, his thinking has not been really clear these last few months. Perhaps this is another way God has of getting through to him. I recommend you help him all you can right now, it will give him something to think about. If not now, he will realize it later when faced with the changes D will bring. Christ taught us to love those that hurt us and despitefully use us. That seems to apply here.

You have to follow your feelings, God is in charge, we do well to listen to him.

I worry about you, you have been alone for quite some time. It is not meant to be so. Please continue to protect your feelings. I believe you will come out of this in good shape, however I worry about the pain you must experiance as you travel. When I bring this up, I don't see you weeping all the time. I don't see you always dwelling on it, but you know your feelings, and things are not what they should be. Well, enough said about that.

I sometimes have a nagging feeling when I post advice to you that you are already ahead of me. However, it can be used as a confirmation that you are doing well. My son said "Dad, you are not perfect, but close enough, you are getting the job done." I suspect it applies to you also.

Please don't think when I pass along information that I am correcting you, I don't believe you need that. Sometimes It is just to keep in touch, sometimes I feel strongly about something.

Your feelings about not being in a rush about relationship right now are the same as mine. I believe it will come to you as needed. Just act on your feelings.

Daughters will try and send photo in e-mail, we'll see how it works.

I was just leaving and had one more thought, this is one of the strong ones.
You need to exercise that sense of humor. Do someting with friends that will let you laugh. Play foot ball with sons and beat them, or do something that you were good at as a girl that you haven't done for quite some time. Throw a party for your family and talk about old times. Find something, but learn to laugh again, you will need that skill.
SS

<small>[ July 08, 2002, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Wish they would get rid of post poll I keep pressing it by mistake and then losing all my post.
Wanted to say thanks SS and timely as always. haven't time now to post the rest will have to do so later.
jante

Time to have another go. Your thoughts were very timely SS. I have had major fall outs with sons tonight. Youngest had to be brought back screaming and kicking from football practice and middle son had disappeared off again when i got home. he returned 30 minutes later. The problem boiled down to me noit being able to be in two places at once and i felt so alone in the situation.
Have typed an email to H which i am praying about before sending- I have asked hiim to take responsibilty for caring for the children for 50% of their summer holiday which starts on 18th for 6 weeks. At the moment the plan had been for him to have them, away for a week and then have them each saturday. That leaves me with a fulltime job and all the childcare for the other 5 weeks less the 4 days when the children and I are at Bible camp. I am waiting on sending it to make sure I 'm not reacting out of anger. i do think tye children need more time with their father.
As for laughter. Am planning a girlie weekend away the weekend after next with 2 others in my situation. All will be child free that weekend so i expect lots of fun and laughter.
Jante