For me, the fact that my H and I did not have children had nothing to do with my resolving to save our marriage. I took my vows seriously and even after his A, I'm glad we stayed together. Divorce seems like an easy 'out', but it's not. My divorced friends are just as miserable, but alone. One regrets that she didn't try to make it work, said she gave up too easily.<p>We are now expecting a baby, in a month. If we hadn't done the hard work of counseling and forgiving, we wouldn't have this miracle!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>OK&#8230;let&#8217;s say there are no children involved&#8230;would you still be so committed to trying to save the marriage?<hr></blockquote><p>A resounding yes!<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Or would you entertain the possibly of not going through the work of repairing the marriage and moving on?<hr></blockquote><p>I think everyone ponders this question even if they want to rebuild their marriage.<p>**WARNING MINI VENT**<p>This question has always bothered me. It seems that people in general say "you're young, have been married less than 5 years and do not have children, just dump him/her and move on with your life." IMHO, this is just crap. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>When I said for better for worse, until death do us part, I meant it. This definitely qualifies as worse but we have survived and thrived. And I am certainly NOT dead.<p>Jumping off my soap box before I offend or piss off anyone. My apologizes if I have already offended anyone.<p>**End Mini Vent**<p>K/DSN/LostNco
[H]'s wife [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ May 06, 2002: Message edited by: Knewjie ]</p>

Well, I meet the criteria... and here I am... in there kicking and fighting against what seems incredible odds to survive.<p>I think it's much more possible for someone without kids to try harder if they simply realize that we're dealing with an addicted individual here... there's a good chance they won't be like this forver. And if they are... well... I've got to KNOW that before I move on. If they can pull themselves out of it... then I need to accept that they were "temporarily insane."<p>I guess it's treating others as I'd hope they'd treat me... which may actually mean being treated like a 4-year-old!! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

It seems that most people agree that it is best to stay together for the children. I agree, but in my situation I am leaving for my children. If I stay with him and only I change, than I still get all of the emotional abuse and you know what, so does my 4 year old. If you can stay together for the kids-great, wonderful. I believe families should last forever, but sometimes it's better if they don't. Am I a nutcase for not staying for my kids?

No, you are not a nutcase. If I thought I could do a better job parenting my children by divorcing my H, I would do so. I was well on my way to divorce back in September. We were separated and I'd already seen the attorney and was giving it until the end of the month to see whether or not my H was going to meet his financial responsibilities, and if he didn't, I was prepared to have him served.<p>It was only when my H provided a different set of circumstances (confession, apology, request to rebuild the M and promise to do his part) that I made a different decision, the best interests of my children, as before, being an important factor in the decision.<p>Then, when that promise did not materialize and he was not doing his part after 4 months of Plan A, I requested that we separate again because the emotional torture was seriously impairing my ability to function, and I didn't want my ability to parent my children to be adversely affected. He refused to move out. I started filling out the paperwork to have him served so I could get a court order forcing him out.<p>Once again, he turned himself around and agreed to work on recovery. He has made significant progress in some areas and little to none in others, but so far it is enough to tip the scales in favor of staying. My understanding from talking to recovering spouses is that it generally takes two years for the A issues to be fully addressed and resolved to a satisfactory level. So I am keeping that time frame in mind, and if my H does not progress from where he is now as we move along that timeline, it will once again be decision time for me.<p>Each person has to make their own decision based upon their own criteria, but if we have children, their needs should not be ignored when making our decisions. Each time I have made the decision to divorce, I have had children, so having children did not stop me from pursuing divorce.<p>And all I can tell someone who currently has no children involved in their decision is what I believe I would do in similar circumstances based upon my experience with divorce, but I've never actually had to make the decision without children being involved. I certainly didn't think I'd ever in a million years stay married to this man after what he's done to me, and yet here I still am.

no kids here... yep, fought for the marriage. The marriage was important to me - it was worth fighting for. Many people said "cut your losses - go build a new life". No - I loved my H and wanted a life with HIM, whether we ever had kids or not.<p>I admit that the "no kids" sort of puts a time-limit on how long to fight. <p>Perhaps, if we put it in "love bank" terminology, the "time" you're willing to fight (plan A and Plan B) is dependent upon the amount of love in your love bank. With kids, seems to me, you receive a tiny love bank deposit whenever you look at your kids and see the love and marriage you once shared. Maybe you receive a tiny love bank deposit each time you see a loving interaction between the WS and the kids. Those of us without kids don't get any of these "love bank deposits". Perhaps the WS MAKES more love bank deposits ("I miss you and the kids", "I miss our life", "You're such a good mother").<p>just my 2 cents...<p>one more thing: Many people get MARRIED for kids - if they get pregnant and decide to marry for that reason. Why not STAY MARRIED for the kids?

No. I was put through too much, and to this day have second thoughts. I hate what I was reduced to, and what I have become. All because he could not cope with MY mother dying. Lost my husband, and mom. Marriage together, but I'm shaky. I love my kids too much to break up their lives.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Faith1:
<strong> With kids, seems to me, you receive a tiny love bank deposit whenever you look at your kids and see the love and marriage you once shared. Maybe you receive a tiny love bank deposit each time you see a loving interaction between the WS and the kids. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Faith,<p>I think you really hit on something here. I never thought about it that way, but when I read your post, I realize that it does happen the way you describe, and I can even remember specific incidences. It also works the other way--when he has been harsh and/or uncaring in regard to the children and their needs, it makes withdrawals. I never really made the connection before. I also remember how it affected my feelings for my H when we were dating and newly married and he was nurturing to my children from my previous M--major LB$ deposits!

In the beginning, staying for the children was the first thought I had. It still is a very present thought a year later. My little ones deserve to have two parents together. The work that I am doing sometimes is just for them, I don't resent it in the least. It is also helping me grow as a person and showing them through my actions what a person can do when faced with an overwhelming hurt. They will be hurt later in their lives, I can't prevent that. But I can show them how to grow, accept responsiblility and be a person of character.<p>For myself and H things haven't been the best this first year after d-day. He has made some mistakes and hasn't followed though on all he needs to do yet. It is a process, we are taking it steps at a time. It is so true about the two years for recovery, many people have shared that with me. <p>I guess though, when things get really rough and I want to run, I look at their eyes and know I can't tell them yet that I am ready to throw the towel in. My family deserves a chance, I deserve a chance and H is getting a chance. He didn't leave me for OW partly because of the children either. He has also stayed becuase he is slowly coming to realize that I can care for him in ways he never realized. There are so many issues that come to play here. I guess I also believe in forgiveness, as long as there are actions that show remorse and a willingness to work on our M. I was taught that in God's eyes no one sin is greater than another and we all are not perfect. But we did need to have our eyes and ears open and we must be able to look at what is really happening. <p>When you have children, the decision affects them to, they are part of what is happening, I believe for me, that staying for them is okay, as long as H works towards recovery.

It makes sense that whenever you loook at your children you see the person you loved and want to be with them always. I still have those thoughts, but everytime I begin to think that I'm doing the wrong thing he reminds me I'm not. Example? My son asked him why he couldn't live with him and mommy? His response(to a 4 year old)Mom doesn't love me, I have more morals. What the hell is that? I never try to make him less of a person to his kids,but he constantly does that to me. When my son said, "mommy's nice to you now" his reply, 'no she's not". How do you win? My choice to survive was to be emotionally numb to him so that nothing he said affected me, but he's going to poison my children against me. I envy all of you whose spouse is trying. He had a revenge a., that he claims is my fault and someday my son will know what kind of a person I am and he'll understand why my h. hates me.

I told my husband from the very start of our relationship that I would never tolerate him having an affair. Didn't seem to mean much to him though. I wish I had the courage to leave him but I do still love him and we have one child and another on the way. If it weren't for the kids I think I would have packed up and gone by now. No-one deserves to feel so worthless and disrespected. I honestly thought my H would never do this to me and every day I ask myself how I came to mean so little to him - how he could risk losing everything that we have together. Of course now he says that he doesn't want to lose me or what we have but he had his 5 minutes of pleasure and now I have to pay for it for the rest of my life. Sometimes I just don't know if I can go on. Without the kids I think I would have definitely given up by now. I have contemplated ending my miserable excuse for a life but my kids keep me going for now. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

I think children provide an extra incentive to work harder. I believe I would have tried regardless of having children, but I doubt my resolve would have been nearly as great. When I wnat to quit trying, I think of my kids and dig down for new energy.<p>Is that staying for the kids? Probably, but I think you owe it to your kids to try your hardest. Of course, you owe it to your kids to also stop trying if it will make you bitter and a worse parent. I have lived by the idea, that I have to be able to look my kids in the eye 10-15 years down the road and say I made the best decision I could. Whether that is continuing to try or deciding to stop trying, I think if you can't defend your decision down the road, you have to keep thinking about it. Afterall, your kids are going to go through pain if there is a divorce, and you don't want to feel you didn't play your best hand when it comes to your kids.<p>Good luck to all.

I would not have stayed in my marriage if we did not have four children together. Love is not enough to sustain a marriage. There have been a number of times when I have felt nothing but sheer hatred for my H and the only thing that kept me trying to rebuild the marriage was our children. When he was acting like a callous, self-centered [censored], I knew that even if we divorced, I'd still have to deal with the [censored] and the effects of divorce on kids is huge. I see it way too much in my work life and I see it way too much in my kids classmates.<p>They are part of my motivation for making this marriage work. I think my husband feels the same way. We feel very strongly about making our marriage better not just for us but because we know first hand as kids what being in an unstable household is like.<p>Our kids did not choose to be in this family. We made the decision to have a family. It is our responsibility as parents to set the example of a loving marriage for them and provide them with a stable home. That was not happening when my H was cheating on me. So, when I confronted him about his cheating and let him know that he would not only lose me but would also lose the kids, he wised up and we began to work on our marriage together. Over a year since D-Day #1, I can say that our marriage has improved but we still have a lot of work to do. <p>We have had a lot of problems in our marriage of 13+ years, I've put up with way too much from this man and in retrospect, had there not been children, the best decision for me would have been leaving. We are talking about issues like DUI, adultery and abuse. I can't leave my kids in that situation he had to get some help and he did. He's becoming a better person. He's a wonderful father 99% of the time. We are moving on. Strange as it may sound, I am a better person for all of the trials and tribulations I have been through with this man. And, I am a lot smarter too.<p>Knowing what I know about him now though, I would not have chosen him to be my husband... would any of us? I would have ran away from him as fast as I could. However, I chose to live my life with him at a young and stupid age when I thought love was all that we needed.<p>Bluebird

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by RAINEFALL:
<strong>he's going to poison my children against me. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>This is a very real possibility. I have lived it. The way he is talking to your 4yo raises all kinds of red flags to me. I urge reading everything you can about Parental Alienation Syndrome before it is too late. Skillful alienators have no problem brainwashing a child and can be very successful.