Im the "other woman" - Marriage Builders® Forums

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I hope you all can read this without judging me....I really need objective opinions!
First off I will say I NEVER thought for a minute I would consider being with a married man never mind having an affair with one, but here I am, 6 mos into it. He "claims" he told her he met someone else a few mos ago- also that he wasnt in-love with her but loved her, (he lives 1000 miles away I met him while he was doing a job in town here). She asked if he would do counseling or it will never work and he said no way.
Long story short, after being with him again recently (he travels alot with his job and was away for a month) He got home Fri and called me to say she went through all his stuff with a fine tooth comb (I dont blame her!) he chuckled at the thought! and if I could do him a favor and dial *67 first when I call him cuz she can see who called and checks his messages on his cell so not to leave one. He is heading this way next week for another month (last minute job-he hasnt told her yet) I was so hurt by the comment and he just said he "didnt need the hastle" this week before he leaves town!! ARRRGH!! This makes me so mad that he still hasnt told her. When we met, supposedly he was telling her right when he got home but while we were at dinner one night, she called hysterical that her father had a hearattack so he decided to wait to tell her and then, obviously, got very comfortable not telling her.
Some guys he works with knows about me and since this weekend Im wishing there was a way I could tell her (or have a man tell her-he'll think its one of the guys)
I know this is probably completely out of my territory but it is suddently eating me alive that he is getting away with this. He said she knows its more than "meeting someone" but he wont admit it to her. He says he loves me dearly all the time and his marriage withered away years ago-NEVER had an affair before either ...hmmmmmm....and wants to be with me someday as he has 3 kids and cant leave "for a while" unless she throws him out!
Dont you think she atleast deserves to know the truth? Thanks for any advise you can give!!

[ October 27, 2003, 10:36 AM: Message edited by: MissLilly67 ]

Ms.Lilly...if you value your own sanity and self worth...leave this man alone. Block his number and his email and find something to do with your time to get through the withdrawl. EVEN IF what he says is true, and he's going to leave her and divorce...the more you are in the picture, the longer he will try to keep his cake and eat it too. The TRUTH of the situation is that he will probably never leave her and probably has no intention to. Either way...you need to protect yourself from the hell he's about to pull you through. There are boards full of women who have been hanging on for years, just sure that he will leave eventually. Maybe he will...but why suffer in the meantime?

He is invested in his family with the wife and the three children. He is having fun with you. If you talk to his wife, you probably will learn a lot more about this man that you are romantically feeling for. A great book for you to read in about being the other woman is Shirley Glasses, "Not Just Friends". She talks about the odds of the OW and success at this kind of relationship. It is not weighing in on your side of the scale. Sure you can fight for him, but he is already spoken for. This is not a fun no care romance any more, when you realize what he is truly doing.

A relationship that is built upon deceipt won't yield good healthy living. I am sorry for the folks that get to deal with this. Nobody wins. But you will figure it out. The facts wont be changed by desires.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />"He got home Fri and called me to say she went through all his stuff with a fine tooth comb (I dont blame her!) he chuckled at the thought!"<hr /></blockquote>Does this sound like a man who respects women?

Miss Lily,
I just have one question. If he does leave his wife to be with you, what makes you think that he won't cheat on you. You say he travels a lot. Does he travel to anywhere besides your town. What makes you think he won't have someone (or maybe he already does) in another town if you get together?

I don't mean to sound hostil or anything. I just have a problem when it comes to OW and OM. I know that it is a two way street, but if there were more people that would refuse to be with a married person it would make it that much harded for someone to have an affair. It also seems like the OP thinks that they will be the one for the person they are having an A with. And that even know they were part of an A, that they somehow are exempt from it happening to them if they were to get into a real relationship with the person they were having an A with.

JW

So far you haven't talked much about your own feelings, but they are bound to be intoxicating and (I'm sorry) largely imaginary. This is a guy you have spent a very limited time with -- you really don't know his downsides on a day-to-day basis. Meanwhile, on the basis of both of your limited knowledge of each other, you are about to visit lifetime-size crisis on the lives of at least four people, not counting yourselves.

Been there, done that. It's all very romantic. But the pain and trauma you are causing you may not be able to undo when you find out you aren't right for each other, which unfortunately, is a probability. And also unfortunately, you won't be able to get to know each other until he visits this crisis on everyone.

Hard as it will be, I'd say get to know some single guys. His wife is suffering big-time, and you don't know the realities of that marriage from the inside, whatever he says (I doubt she knew the marriage was "dead," and probably he didn't think it was either the week before he met you, regardless of what he says now). I don't think you'll want this kind of stuff on your conscience.

This is from a BS's perspective. Give it merit if you want.

My WW left me for another married man. He has 2 kids and has had trouble in his own marriage. She moved in with him 3 months ago and is just now seeing the negative side of this man. I guess she thought she knew this man and planned on marrying him and living happily ever after. A great fairytale but not very realistic.

Anyway, point being, what you see isn't always what you get. Also, my W has put me and her family(2 Ds age 16 & 13) through so much pain and suffering that it isn't even funny. Do you want that on your conscience? Yes, you may think that this man is your soulmate, but truth is, he is a fantasy only in your mind. Don't tear apart a family for your selfish needs. Get out now and let this man put back the pieces to his own marriage before its too late...

OK, here it goes, I could be wrong BUT I HIGHLY DOUBT IT! HE is LYING TO BOTH YOU AND HIS WIFE! She doesn't know the extent of his relationship with you IF SHE KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT YOU AT ALL! If she knew she would be contacting you to find out the truth! You are the OUT-OF-TOWN WOMAN, he is not leaving his wife, and if he does, HE WON'T TELL HER HE IS LEAVING FOR YOU! He will make her believe it is for work or will say he needs space while he is playing house with you for AWHILE. You are headed for the BIGGEST DRAMA OF YOUR LIFE! I am quite sure if you talk to his wife, she will give you a completely different story of what he is telling you! JMO

He is undoubtedly lying to both you and his wife. He has to, to keep you both hooked in to the situation. At a bare minimum, he is downplaying his attachment to his wife to you, downplaying his involvement with you to her. That's a given.

Look, MissLilly, keep posting. You are going to need a lot of support through this. You will get some bangs on the head from some posters, undoubtedly, but we do want to help you through this, and you will need help.

Dear Miss Lily,
I've wanted to send a letter to the OW in my life but I can't because: a) OW said "no more contact" and most importantly b) I owe it to my W not to cause any more destruction c) I promised not to contact OW again. So maybe you can substitute for the OW in my life?

This letter has been "burned" by hiker sorry Miss lily but it wasn't worth the paper it was written on

[ October 28, 2003, 01:36 AM: Message edited by: Hiker ]

Hi MissLilly

Well, I decided to chime in also.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />he chuckled at the thought! and if I could do him a favor and dial *67 first when I call him cuz she can see who called and checks his messages on his cell so not to leave one. <hr /></blockquote>Hmmm, so he want you to hide, he is lieing, cheating on his W, and laughs about it. He tells you not to leave a message.

Is this really the type of "USER" you want in your life?

From the sounds of it he really doesn't care for you. He doesn't really love you and doesn't really care for your feelings. Look at his actions. Is he someone that is really worth knowing? My W ran into a "USER/SHARK/A##WIPE" He said all the right things, the only thing was that in his part it was all so that he could get what he wanted and all he wanted was a "F#@K Toy". He also wanted an emotion tie from my W and all the other women he used and then tossed away. The A##wipe has done this for over 30+ years (since the 2nd year of his marriage). He made sure of the emotional hook, and by the time she saw what he was like it was to late. He'd already PA'd her. She was like a frog being boiled alive, you turn up the heat a little at at time, and eventually the frog dies in the boiling water. He was perverting her.

It really sounds like you have met such a person. I hate to pop your bubble but you are someone that will be easily replaced as soon as he is done with you. It will be hard for you but choose for him. Go NC with him. And inform his W. She needs to know and you need to tell her. She needs the information so she can make the choice of working on her M, or not. If you have any hard evidence such as mail I would provide her with those. But you need to go NC, and then find someone that will really care about you, will be honest with you. A person that doesn't have to live a life of deceit/fantasy. If you really look at him, he doesn't "Love" anybody including his W. I will correct that He "Loves" himself, and his own selfish wants, and the brain he uses for his idea's of love is between his legs.

It does say a lot that your are here seeking answers. I respect that. We all have made bad choices in our lives. But, nothing says that we can't work on ourselves and change for the better by learning from those choices. You have taken a big step here by posting. And, I hope you will continue to post. Read here, vent here, and learn here.

God Bless

My first double post. Now I feel like I fit in. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

[ October 27, 2003, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: Silverthorn ]

My 1st time visiting and writing and I am overwhelmed with graitude for all of you taking the time to share with me. Thank you so much-all of your suggestions are just what I needed!

Keep posting!

Okay Lilly pretend you are back in high school when you first started dating:

Then: You would if you loved me.

Now: I will because I don't love her.

Then: Your the only one for me.

Now: She's not the one for me.

Then: I can't believe we ran out of gas.

Now: I never intended to fall in love with you.

The lines change with the times. Now back then you never would have fallen for such cheezy lines.

But now for some reason you swallow them hook line and sinker. Especially the part about telling her all about you. Please think about it, he is lying to her by having an affair but you are suprised he lied to you?

Put it this way HE stood before God, family and friends and swore his marriage vows.....if he can't keep those words what makes you think he will keep his words with you?

Please realize that married men who cheat basically do so for sex. And just like the hormone driven boys in high school they will say whatever it takes to get what they want.

Lilly are you married or single?

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Dont you think she atleast deserves to know the truth? <hr /></blockquote>Yes, I think she does.

And then you bow out and end all contact. Let him and his W work out and on their marriage or not.

And you find someone who deserves you, and has respect for you, himself and his family.

"Someday" is a string along line. (along with the other things he's said) It means, "I'm a cake-eater" and he likes it this way.. a girl in every port. Are you sure you and his wife are the only other "girls" in port?

It's funny, I did a lot of reading on this last night... so much so that I woke up grouchy this morning.

You deserve more than a cake eater who will whittle your life away while you wait for a promise he will never fulfill.

MissLilly you have alot of class... not many OW/OM/OP (other women, other men, other person) would come on this site and ask this question.

Many think we are awful bitter orges who will assail them and rent them to pieces .. we aren't ... and most of us feel that YOU deserve someone who won't drag you into his issues and probelms, problems he should work on and fix himself -- but he chose to run away and be distracted by you -- and if he really did leave his wife for you, do you really want someone like that?

What happens the next time he has problems?

You deserve more and better.

By telling his W, cutting him loose, and ending all contact you are giving him the chance to be a better person and work on himself and his issues. Hopefully they will both go into counseling and marriage counseling -- and if you tell her ... send her to this site.

you have my respect
way2

[ October 27, 2003, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: way2 ]

I know this is probably completely out of my territory but it is suddently eating me alive that he is getting away with this.
??? That he is getting away with not telling his wife?

He says ... NEVER had an affair before either ...hmmmmmm
I agree. Hmmmmm? Why would he say this?

....and wants to be with me someday as he has 3 kids and cant leave "for a while" unless she throws him out!
So even though he knows he's wrong, he's not man enough to do the right thing (break it off with you. He wants her to do the dirty work). Some "man", eh?

He won't leave his wife & children unless she kicks him out. Because they are more important to him than you are.

Dont you think she atleast deserves to know the truth?
Yes & so do you. Unfortunately, you probably won't get it from him.

Read some more here and not just the replies to you.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />He says ... NEVER had an affair before either ...hmmmmmm
<hr /></blockquote>BTW Lilly my wife's OM told her he had only one other affair and that was nearly 10 years before truth was he ended one just as he started making a move on her.....and that was his 12th or 13th affair.

My bad...

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> I actually thought there was another woman...beside you!

committed

[ October 27, 2003, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: committedandlovingit ]

I have to post!

I too was the other woman. Was, was, was. Never so glad to put something into the past tense. Albeit the fact that I truly did love X-MM.

However. Your first question seems to center around whether to tell or not. Nearly everyone here says TELL. They almost all advocate honesty at any cost (particularly when BS tells OPs spouse). So I am surprised that that standard is not carried more stringently in this case and you are not urged to tell the wife. (Get this--when my X-MM's W found out YEARS AFTER I HAD ENDED THE AFFAIR, she still wanted to stir things up and tell my H. Because it was "the right thing to do." She never did, because I think she feared backlash. But it shows you people's true colors and motives...)

So, my dear, what you should do is be totally honest WITH YOURSELF about your motives for telling. If you are doing it to punish him, this is not a good reason. It is not your job to exert any kind of control over any aspect of his life. Really, no reason having to do with him is a good reason to tell. Few people tell for truly altruistic reasons, it seems to me, and I've done a lot of reading on another board on this subject...

Just examine your motives, and if you're telling the wife for revenge, then you better dig 2 graves.

About the affair in general, trust me: there is nothing lasting or worthwhile in this for you except lessons whose value you cannot see until you are out of the affair.

Fact is, there are not good stats for men leaving families to be with a new sexual interest. Now, I know you are more than that and hopefully you do too. But he does not. You have let him put you in a box of his making, a convenient place in his life, for his purposes. You are a valuable human being who deserves more. Actions, not words...his have told the tale. You, however, should make your actions exemplary of a worthwhile, self-respecting, self-loving (and God-loving, if you're inclined) human being.

Leave him in the dust & get on with your life. It'll take a while, I suppose, before you're ready to give up, but you asked for advice, and that's mine.

though, not twice...

[ October 27, 2003, 08:07 PM: Message edited by: terminator ]

MissLilly,

Do you really expect people here to believe that you care about this mans W? All you seem to care about is getting this WH all to yourself. He refuses to tell his W about the A so YOU want to tell her or at the very get a co-worker to tell her....anything to expose the A and in YOUR mind turn the tide in your favor.

You don't care about telling his W the truth. All you want to do is tell his W that you are f#ing her H.

Oh yeah....you really got class. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

This is marriage building site, not a marriage wrecking site. You appear to be on the wrong website. Why not try the TOW site.

ba109

you know ba109 that's not how I read MissLilly's post at all ..

I have spent the last week reading the TOW site .. if she were really doing and being what you say she'd be over there, not here.

IMHO she is really looking for a way out ... and after the posts I've read over there -- yes she does have alot of class.

MissLilly -- end the A, get on with your life and tell the W.

I do agree with terminator, that your motives make a difference. But they ONLY make a difference to you as the OW:

1. If you tell out of revenge or other selfish reasons then you will in the end reap what you sow as it will effect how you one day view yourself.

2. If tell because the wife deserves to know AND you end ALL contact you can begin to regain the self dignity and respect that this A is costing you.

but the W should be told

way2

[ October 27, 2003, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: way2 ]

way2,

Nope, not buying it. Nowhere does MissLilly indicate that she wants out of the A...only that she is hurt that he hasn't told his W about her yet. She wants to be his exclusively. She is beginning to feel betrayed by his dishonesty. She feels that if he truly loves her then he would tell his W about the A and devote himself to her exclusively.

She was not dragged into the A as you stated. She had a choice. She chose to have an A with a married man. Now she is choosing to continue in that A. The only problem is...her Guy hasn't told his W yet and she is getting impatient. When is she going to be #1? Right now, she is #2 and that doesn't sit so well with her.

It's not her place to tell the W about the A. That is the H's responsibility. MissLilly's responsibility is to simply walk away and end all contact. That is the furthest thing from her mind at this point.

jmho
ba109

where did I say she was dragged into the affair?

I agree with all you've said .. I just see the cracks ... I see some of chocolate addict in her.

way2

Miss L
Both way2 and terminator have "hit the nail...". Their advice always is compassionate and thoughtful. I wish I could think that clearly.
H

Hiker,

You will think this clearly. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but you will.

Every day that you act on belief and listen to God will make your thinking clearer. The simpler your life is (the more dependent you are on God) the clearer everything becomes.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by way2:
 where did I say she was dragged into the affair?

<hr /></blockquote>I interpret this statement to mean that she was dragged into the A in some other way then by her own choosing.
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> ...YOU deserve someone who won't drag you into his issues and probelms, problems he should work on and fix himself -- but he chose to run away and be distracted by you... <hr /></blockquote>She chose to involve herself.
She chose to be a distraction.
She chose to have an A.

ba109

MissL,

First of all welcome to the forum.

You may not know what you've stumbled upon yet by coming here. Listen to the advice given to you and post back with any questions. Most importantly, act on it. This is the shortest path out of the trap you're in. The faster you do it, the better.
Go NC and don't look back. In a year you'll be as good as new. If you don't, a year from now you'll still have a pile of trouble to deal with and will have to go through the same pain of NC whether voluntarily or not. I am not clearvoyant, but I have one chance in 33 to be right, based on the statistics of the affairs.

Many have been where you are. Skip the pain. Do what they say.

I wish you all the best. You deserve it.

BigStar

Miss Lily,

I gota jump in here as well. I agree wholeheartedly with EVERYTHING every one has said to you, even though that may seem contradictary.

Please remember that we only have your post to form our opinion. I think, take it for what it is worth, that you are looking for this board to tell you to tell his wife because you are upset that he has not yet done so. I think that you would like nothing more than for him to leave his wife for you or next best option for her to find out and throw him out so that he could be with you exclusively. I think you are resentful of him for not giving you his full attention and "love". I do therefore believe that you do have selfish intentions in telling her.

That being said, hey we are all human. You have obviously fallen for this guy. Even the most faithful of all christians make mistakes. We just do. I do not believe that your intention was to make the wife miserable. I do not believe that your intention is to create misery among the children. I do not believe that you got into to this for the anguish you have now. He did not get into this for anguish or misery either. In your case no matter what someone is going to get hurt here.

Right now that someone is you. My guess is that you are hurting now, and his wife is hurting now as she thinks something is up (but do you really know that is true? no you do not). He is probably just scared of full disclosure from you. His co-workers will say nothing. Your affair was just a good trophy story for him to tell. I do not mean to hurt you, it is just that I have heard the stories all to many times from men that I have worked with. Men get into affairs almost exclusively for sex.

My guess is that he will tell you anything to keep the truth hidden, and to keep you in check.

So with the limited knowlage I have of your situation, this is what I would do if I were you. Let the poor woman know what is happening in her life, because that is what it is, her life that is about to get turned inside and out. She will have to decide what to do next. Be prepared to give her solid proof, as she may not WANT to believe you. At the very least be respectful of her and at the very least tell her about MB.

Next, go and find yourself a real man. A man that you can trust. Honestly could you, after the initial fairy tale you have had with him wears off really fully trust him. Do you want to live your life this way. REALLY THINK ABOUT THAT ONE.

He has lied to his wife that gave him three childern, why would he not lie to you as well? Get out of Disney Land.

Miss Lilly, really I am not trying to be hard on you. I just see you getting hurt. Move on to someone better.

I was the clueless wife who believed my H when he said he was out with the guys on Friday and Saturday nights. And then, when the OW got fed up with being second fiddle, she forced his hand and it all came out.

Down the line, she told people that I didn't deserve him - I was a bad wife, I didn't cook and clean enough, I gave him a hard time about everything, I was mean, I didn't really love him, I never forgave him after he had the first affair ... None of which had an ounce of truth to it, but he fed her what he needed to feed her and she filled in the blanks with her own imagination.

The bottom line is this: you don't have any idea what is really going on in their home. It is easy for him to tell you whatever he wants to tell you, and none of it may be true. Remember that marriage is a 110%-110% relationship - and a man who won't put his 110% into the marriage that got him 3 children is not ever going to put his 110% into a relationship with you.

He sounds like a cruel and selfish man, despite whatever side he shows you most of the time. Marriage counseling would not have hurt him, and he might have even saved his marriage, but "he said no way" - what does that say to you? This man has told you that what should be the very most important relationship in his life was not valuable enough to him for him to invest some time in counseling before tossing in the towel. Even his three children do not make this important enough to work on?

You are addicted to this man - the secret thrill of the forbidden relationship. But, as you've felt recently, the thrill ceases to be enough, and now you want more. If you push him, you will become the latest cast-off in his ego-centric world, because you will not be "fun" anymore. Men like this don't leave their wives and children for a woman who lives 1000 miles away. As long as you are willing to sit in the background like a fugitive, he'll continue to see you at his convenience. I'm betting, as soon as you want more than his convenience, you'll start to see and hear less and less from him, until you are left alone with your losses and your guilt.

Don't be a party to the deliberate disrespect of marriage, to the greedy selfishness of a man who can't be bothered to make his choices work for him, instead destroying 4 lives ... 5 if you count his own ...

Respect yourself.

Dear Terminator-
Thank you-thank you-thank you!! Your comments totally hit home and made me cry (Im sure that's just the beginning) a friend tells me to watch my motives and I know I want him to hurt as he has hurt and lied to me and her this whole time.I am so grateful I stumbled over this site yesterday! Best wishes to you always.
Misslilly

Originally posted by terminator:
 I have to post!

I too was the other woman. Was, was, was. Never so glad to put something into the past tense. Albeit the fact that I truly did love X-MM.

However. Your first question seems to center around whether to tell or not. Nearly everyone here says TELL. They almost all advocate honesty at any cost (particularly when BS tells OPs spouse). So I am surprised that that standard is not carried more stringently in this case and you are not urged to tell the wife. (Get this--when my X-MM's W found out YEARS AFTER I HAD ENDED THE AFFAIR, she still wanted to stir things up and tell my H. Because it was "the right thing to do." She never did, because I think she feared backlash. But it shows you people's true colors and motives...)

So, my dear, what you should do is be totally honest WITH YOURSELF about your motives for telling. If you are doing it to punish him, this is not a good reason. It is not your job to exert any kind of control over any aspect of his life. Really, no reason having to do with him is a good reason to tell. Few people tell for truly altruistic reasons, it seems to me, and I've done a lot of reading on another board on this subject...

Just examine your motives, and if you're telling the wife for revenge, then you better dig 2 graves.

About the affair in general, trust me: there is nothing lasting or worthwhile in this for you except lessons whose value you cannot see until you are out of the affair.

Fact is, there are not good stats for men leaving families to be with a new sexual interest. Now, I know you are more than that and hopefully you do too. But he does not. You have let him put you in a box of his making, a convenient place in his life, for his purposes. You are a valuable human being who deserves more. Actions, not words...his have told the tale. You, however, should make your actions exemplary of a worthwhile, self-respecting, self-loving (and God-loving, if you're inclined) human being.

Leave him in the dust & get on with your life. It'll take a while, I suppose, before you're ready to give up, but you asked for advice, and that's mine. [/QUOTE]

Hey way2-
Thanks for your support as well! Maybe I wasnt very clear in my original writing, but I AM trying to get out of this mess. I want his wife to know cuz that is the LEAST she deserves (I have told him that too)out of this and if he hasnt told her yet I doubt he ever will. Him & I have had many discussions on being together permanently and I have come to accept that is NOT going to happen. (We are 18 hrs away from each other and he would NOT leave his kids-nor would I expect him too!)Because the acceptance has come in that is why I am trying to move on now.Trust would also be a huge factor for me sooooo...with those things in mind, that is why I write!
To BA109....."dont judge another until you have walked in their shoes"
MissLilly

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by way2:
 you know ba109 that's not how I read MissLilly's post at all ..

I have spent the last week reading the TOW site .. if she were really doing and being what you say she'd be over there, not here.

IMHO she is really looking for a way out ... and after the posts I've read over there -- yes she does have alot of class.

MissLilly -- end the A, get on with your life and tell the W.

I do agree with terminator, that your motives make a difference. But they ONLY make a difference to you as the OW:

1. If you tell out of revenge or other selfish reasons then you will in the end reap what you sow as it will effect how you one day view yourself.

2. If tell because the wife deserves to know AND you end ALL contact you can begin to regain the self dignity and respect that this A is costing you.

but the W should be told

way2 <hr /></blockquote>

MissLilly,
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> To BA109....."dont judge another until you have walked in their shoes"
MissLilly

<hr /></blockquote>The whole idea is for people NOT to walk in your shoes. Do NOT participate in an A. You do not have to TRY to get out out of the A, you simply have to walk away. "Just Do It!"

The only reason you want to expose the A is because you are starting to feel betrayed and hurt. Now you admittedly want to hurt him in return. You don't want him to "get away with it."

If you truly want out of the A you should have no concern for him or his W nor the fallout of the affair eventually being exposed. It's not your business. Do the honorable thing and walk away.

jmho
ba109

[ October 28, 2003, 08:51 AM: Message edited by: ba109 ]

You do not have TRY to get out out of the A, you simply have to walk away. "Just Do It!"

MissLilly - IMO, thinking about the above recommendation, I would like to add one more thing - being in an A is having group sex - this scares the hell out of me - you really don't know what the MM's truths are, for he is lying to you and his W -
God Bless

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ba109:
 MissLilly,
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> To BA109....."dont judge another until you have walked in their shoes"
MissLilly

<hr /></blockquote>The whole idea is for people NOT to walk in your shoes. Do NOT participate in an A. You do not have TRY to get out out of the A, you simply have to walk away. "Just Do It!"

The only reason you want to expose the A is because you are starting to feel betrayed and hurt. Now you admittedly want to hurt him in return. You don't want him to "get away with it."

If you truly want out of the A you should have no concern for him or his W nor the fallout of the affair eventually being exposed. It's not your business. Do the honorable thing and walk away.

jmho
ba109 <hr /></blockquote>sufdb...Actually that is incorrect. It is everyones responsibility to expose and affair, motivations make no difference. The only important thing here is the the well-being of the BS. It would be better if the ws do so, but if they won't, anyone who knows, including the ow/om has a moral obligation to give her the information she needs to protect herself....otherwise if you know, and don't tell, you become a co-conspirator in the injury to the BS. Where motivation comes in is in how the telling is done. One should attempt to give the BS this information as compassionately as possible...but compassionate or not, the only ethical choice a ow/om has is to inform the bs...otherwise they compound the injury, contributing to an on-going conspiracy to defraud the bs of their life....and thereby remaining connected to the spouse as well...Nobody heals until everyone knows, that includes you misslilly.

Your choices at this point are very straightforward.

1. You tell the om you are done, there will be no more contact.

2. You contact his spouse, and as briefly. factually (no discussions of your feelings, etc.) inform her of your involvement in her marriage, give her such information as is necessary to establish that an affair did occur (times and places, contact methods, etc.)...express regret, and that you will have no more contact with her H, have told him so...and offer to tell her of any efforts he makes to contact you.

Do NOT discuss all the gory details of your interactions, if it was physical, just state so, she needs to get all these details from her H. But you also have an additional obligation (if she feels the need) to answer a few questions, or validate her H story (which no doubt will be lies, and trashing you...she may choose to believe his lies, or she may want to ask you).

You have incurred these obligations as a consequence of the choice to be involved with her H. By taking responsibility, and discharging these obligations, you will free yourself of his connections to you... you need that for your well-being, and so does the BS....any secrets you keep with her H, means you remain part of their marriage forever...do you understand?

btw I agree, aside from the obligation to end the affair, and let this man resolve his marriage however he will....even single his behaviour indicates he is not a worthy individual. I also think he is lying to you big time, and probably is a serial affair person. Affairs do happen, supposedly to anyone given sufficient emotional circumstances, but a responsible person deals with it, does not make it a way of life....and protects themself in the future from any such reoccurence. That responsibility starts with revealing the truth, and resolving ones marriage....alone, without anyone else in the mix.

[ October 28, 2003, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: sufdb ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> anyone who knows, including the ow/om has a moral obligation to give her the information she needs to protect herself....otherwise if you know, and don't tell, you become a co-conspirator in the injury to the BS. <hr /></blockquote>NOW is the time to take the moral high road...huh? <excuse me while I clean the screen from water spew> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Where were the morals earlier while schlepping around with him? To claim morality now is laughable.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> the only ethical choice a ow/om has is to inform the bs...otherwise they compound the injury, contributing to the conspiracy to defraud the bs of their life. <hr /></blockquote>Gosh...let me clean it off once more.. <wipe wipe wipe>

ethical

yeah yeah yeah...NOW is the time to climb that "ethical" horse and ride it hard. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

They have been contributing to the conspiracy to defraud the BS the ENTIRE time.

The need to tell is less than honorable here. She no longer wants HIM to get away with it. Telling the BS is her way of getting back at the MM. It is still all about him and HER hurt. NOT the hurt of the BS. What kind of "fog" is that? The OW fog?

I have to agree with ba109. If she truly wants OUT of the affair she will turn and walk away. She won't be planning on him visiting next week when he is there for a month. She will let him go his way...and she will go hers. Just how hard can that be?

committed

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by committedandlovingit:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr /> anyone who knows, including the ow/om has a moral obligation to give her the information she needs to protect herself....otherwise if you know, and don't tell, you become a co-conspirator in the injury to the BS. <hr /></blockquote>NOW is the time to take the moral high road...huh? <excuse me while I clean the screen from water spew> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Where were the morals earlier while schlepping around with him? To claim morality now is laughable.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> the only ethical choice a ow/om has is to inform the bs...otherwise they compound the injury, contributing to the conspiracy to defraud the bs of their life. <hr /></blockquote>Gosh...let me clean it off once more.. <wipe wipe wipe>

ethical

yeah yeah yeah...NOW is the time to climb that "ethical" horse and ride it hard. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

They have been contributing to the conspiracy to defraud the BS the ENTIRE time.

The need to tell is less than honorable here. She no longer wants HIM to get away with it. Telling the BS is her way of getting back at the MM. It is still all about him and HER hurt. NOT the hurt of the BS. What kind of "fog" is that? The OW fog?

I have to agree with ba109. If she truly wants OUT of the affair she will turn and walk away. She won't be planning on him visiting next week when he is there for a month. She will let him go his way...and she will go hers. Just how hard can that be?

committed <hr /></blockquote>Well, that was all very entertaining, but the issue is the protection of the BS in this circumstance. If you have a logical/moral/ethical argument for justifying continued injury (through ignorance) to the BS, would you please make it.

Perhaps you don't think she can end the affair without revealing it too, but I don't think you can succwssfully (meaning using logical and ethical arguments) defend that notion behaviourally. They are not mutually exclusive behaviours, they are independent behaviours....and both need to be accomplished for one in such a circumstance to properly heal.

sufdb, committed...

Two comments:

The well-being of the BS is NOT all that matters, generally. The well-being of the OP matters as well--or it ought to matter, to at least the OP (and foremost to the OP), such that they realize that 'well-being' does not equal participating in an affair.

"ethical" is not reserved for BSs. Anyone and everyone can behave ethically, starting at any moment, in some small way. Anyone. And all should be called to that standard equally. Just as I said that hardly anybody tells the BS of the affair for pure altruistic reasons, also I say that no persons are good, in and of themselves. None.

[ October 28, 2003, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: terminator ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by terminator:
 sufdb, committed...

Two comments:

The well-being of the BS is NOT all that matters, generally. The well-being of the OP matters as well--or it ought to matter, to at least the OP (and foremost to the OP), such that they realize that 'well-being' does not equal participating in an affair.

sufdb...yes, everyones well-being is important, of course. The issue is how to proceed once one realizes the train wreck has occured. The concern on the table was tell or not tell the bs, that is what I referred to by saying all other reasons are irrelevant, except the BS need to know, and the obligation of any ethical person (be it op, neighbor, stranger, whoever) to reveal this info...just like reporting a crime, or being willing to testify etc.

I think I did address that the telling is also necessary for the op well-being too...it disconnects the op from the ws.

"ethical" is not reserved for BSs. Anyone and everyone can behave ethically, starting at any moment, in some small way. Anyone. And all should be called to that standard equally. Just as I said that hardly anybody tells the BS of the affair for pure altruistic reasons, also I say that no persons are good, in and of themselves. None. <hr /></blockquote>

Miss Lilly,
I felt compelled to write to you as I have been on both sides of the fence in this situation. My advice is to get away from the A as soon as you possibly can as there will be nothing but pain, and the most acute that you have ever experienced, should you chose to continue down this path.

I had an A many years ago with a co-worker who I discovered was the most manipulative human being I have ever encountered. He convinced me that things were so bad with his wife, they were considering divorce...all the usual lines. I was naive, needy and unhappy with myself and my life and instead of facing the problems, tried to solve them by distraction. Over the course of time though I began to question what he said/did on my own and started to do things to figure out what was really going on. Bad girl that I am, I hacked his computer and discovered all sorts of glowing loving emails from/to his wife about things that they had done and were planning to do. I also took it upon myself to get to know his wife and found her to be one of the most delightful people I ever met. She was highly intelligent, funny and was interested in many of the same things that I was. She WAS NOT any of the things that he portrayed to me. I pulled away from the A and begged the man to please talk to his wife and tell her all the things that he was feeling as she deserved to know all of it because she loved him. Then I left…moved 1500 miles away and never talked to him again. The worse thing that happened over it though was the guilt and depression that I fell into over hurting my H and family...this led into the second half of my life.

I was deeply depressed and withdrew from my H which got worse over the course of a couple of years. He thought I did not love him and got involved with a coworker. It was NOT a good situation and she basically pushed him into telling me what was going on. I did not know what her motives were, but I now believe that she honestly thought I would end the marriage and she would get him. No matter that she was married and her H would have done anything at that time to save their marriage; she would not let him because she convinced herself that my H was her knight in shining armor. All it did was make me more determined to save my marriage; not to spite her but because I loved my H and knew that given the chance, we could rebuild our relationship. But that was also my trump card…I KNOW my H and knew that her attempts at manipulation would only drive him away as that is the one thing he detests. I also knew that family, above all things, is most important to him and destroying it would have destroyed him too. I learned through emails and letters that she wrote him and he replied to, that he was telling her half truths and downright lies about our relationship. He was telling her just what she wanted to hear to keep her hooked. That is the nature of A’s and that is what you are getting too if I had to take a guess.

So what was the final outcome of it all? The man I was involved with way back then did end up divorced; his wife’s decision. I stayed with my H. The OW divorced her H, took off with another man and when that fell apart tried to get back with her H but he told her NO. She started calling my H again and he told her NO. Our relationship now is better than it has ever been after a lot of work but it has been at the expense of a lot of peoples lives and emotional upheaval. Believe me…there is no hell like that of being told that there is another person in the life of someone you love.

You are at the point where you can stop this train right now before anyone gets more involved. Please do what is right for everyone, right now. You have the ability and it seems the desire to set things right. Do it, for you as much as for anyone else. Living with the knowledge that you have caused so much hurt to unsuspecting people is not something that I would wish on anyone after having gone through it.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Well, that was all very entertaining, but the issue is the protection of the BS in this circumstance. If you have a logical/moral/ethical argument for justifying continued injury (through ignorance) to the BS, would you please make it. <hr /></blockquote>To accuse me of justifying continued injury is absurd to say the least. The injury is occurring as long as she has not told him NO MORE. She has yet to do that. She cannot take the moral high road...nor ride that ethical horse UNTIL there is NO CONTACT on her part. Is that such a confusing point?

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> He is heading this way next week for another month (last minute job-he hasnt told her yet) I was so hurt by the comment and he just said he "didnt need the hastle" this week before he leaves town!! ARRRGH!! This makes me so mad that he still hasnt told her. <hr /></blockquote>I do not see where she is telling him that she will NOT be seeing him while he is there. She is wanting him to tell his wife that she exists and that he WILL be with her.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Some guys he works with knows about me and since this weekend Im wishing there was a way I could tell her (or have a man tell her-he'll think its one of the guys)
I know this is probably completely out of my territory but it is suddently eating me alive that he is getting away with this. <hr /></blockquote>She doesn't say that she it is eating her alive that he is getting away with deceiving his wife. It is eating her alive that he is getting away with not telling the wife about her. BIG difference if you ask me. The first one is moral...the second one is self oriented.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />He says he loves me dearly all the time and his marriage withered away years ago-NEVER had an affair before either ...hmmmmmm....and wants to be with me someday as he has 3 kids and cant leave "for a while" unless she throws him out!
<hr /></blockquote>Well...to tell the Wife just might make that happen a little bit sooner...huh? Throwing him out will be what it takes to make him cling to her. It will make him entirely hers.

I am looking and looking in that post...and NOWHERE does it say...

I DO NOT WANT TO BE IN AFFAIR WITH THIS MAN AND I WANT OUT.

I am seeing...

He is coming to town next week to stay a month.
Did she say that she told him he won't be visiting with her?

He wants me to use *67 when calling him on his cell so the wife won't know who she is.
Did she say that she will NOT be doing this and NOT calling him?

He tells me to not leave messages cause she will be checking them.

Did she say that she does NOT call him so this is all moot?

To tell his wife about me now would be a hassle in his life and he ain't up to it.
Didn't she say "This makes me so mad that he still hasnt told her."

Those are the logistics that I see...she laid them all out.

She wants the wife to know, in order to step in when he is thrown out. What is moral or ethical about that?

WE could all help her mount IF she decided to begin her ride with NO CONTACT.

committed

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by terminator:
 sufdb, committed...

"ethical" is not reserved for BSs. Anyone and everyone can behave ethically, starting at any moment, in some small way. Anyone. And all should be called to that standard equally. Just as I said that hardly anybody tells the BS of the affair for pure altruistic reasons, also I say that no persons are good, in and of themselves. None. <hr /></blockquote>Ethical cannot be found in the 'telling' of the affair...UNLESS ethical is found in the ENDING of the affair.

People cannot take the moral stand of telling the BS unless they have taken the moral stand of ending the affair.

IMHO...that is laughable to think otherwise. That is all that I am saying. Be ethical and moral in ALL that you do. You can't pick and choose where to act ethically or morally.

Had she posted that she has chosen to END this affair...that she will have NO CONTACT with this man ever again then I would take a different stand. She has NOT said that. IF she has, will someone pull out the text and quote it to me?

committed

MissLilly,
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MissLilly67:

Maybe I wasnt very clear in my original writing, but I AM trying to get out of this mess. <hr /></blockquote>Maybe you'd like to tell us just what it is that you are "trying" to do to get out of the A. It seems that the consensus is divided as to whether you want to expose the A because you want to end it or if you want to expose the A for your own benefit and draw the WS closer to you.

Maybe you could enlighten us.

ba109

You know attacking someone who comes here for help is not good. Some of you have stated that you don't trust or believe her motives. So if that is true why are you still posting on this topic. You've made your statement.

I for one am a BS, I've read what she had to say and I believer her. I'm not gullable, I have commom sense, I also have compassion and Love.

Ba109, you do have a right to question her motives but not to continually attack. Same with the lame attempt at sarcasim from commitedandlovingit. Morals, ethics, yes we all have them, but frankly can any of us tell everyone that you do nothing wrong. That your morals and ethics are perfect. Or to quote someone who was and is the only perfect and moral human.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Let he who is without sin cast the first stone <hr /></blockquote>Sometimes it takes people some time to wake up. MissLilly did know that he was a MM, but frankly he is a shark/user/immoral a@@wipe. They say and do anything to make someone a toy, so that even if they are a christian, with morals and values they can fall. My W is a christian, she was before the A she is now. I mean a born again believer.

MissLilly,

Tell his W, she needs to know the type of person she is married to. She needs to have the options of M or D. Working or kicking him out.
NC him and tell her. Pray before you tell, and continue to pray after.

Silverhorn,

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> You know attacking someone who comes here for help is not good. <hr /></blockquote>I find it interesting that you feel this way yet you can so easily condemn the WH in this case without knowing the first thing about his situation other that what this OW has posted. <blockquote>quote:<hr /> ...but frankly he is a shark/user/immoral a@@wipe. <hr /></blockquote>Practice what you preach.

ba109

MissLilly -

I am the OW. I am the WS. I am the BS. I would not trade my life for the world, but I have made some huge, huge mistakes. I know how hard it is to let go of a man and a fantasy that you've sustained for years at a low level of very wonderful stuff.

And it's like eating nothing but chocolate cake. Dang, it tastes good. And it will never sustain you the way chicken soup will, or a big pot of black bean soup with corn bread, or a bowl of mom's beef stew. (It's cold here today, and I'm in a soup mood. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

To quote the words of Master Yoda, "Do or do not. There is no try."

You're trying to get out of this mess? Nah. You're IN this mess. Either you're in it or you're out of it. Sweetie, please. Get out of it and find a bowl of chili. (Mmm, chili.)

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Maybe you'd like to tell us just what it is that you are "trying" to do to get out of the A. It seems that the consensus is divided as to whether you want to expose the A because you want to end it or if you want to expose the A for your own benefit and draw the WS closer to you.
<hr /></blockquote>You know I don't think it really matters what her motives are....no offense Lilly...because the results are likely to be the same. Most affairs end because they are exposed with some exceptions like exit affairs.

So exposing the affair whether for good or evil motives makes no difference in terms of the outcome.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by committedandlovingit:
[QB]To accuse me of justifying continued injury is absurd to say the least. The injury is occurring as long as she has not told him NO MORE. She has yet to do that. She cannot take the moral high road...nor ride that ethical horse UNTIL there is NO CONTACT on her part. Is that such a confusing point? <hr /></blockquote>I think I find this whole idea of the OW telling the BS of her affair just as galling as committedandlovingit does. But, as galling as it is, the BS desperately needs to know she is being destroyed behind her back, regardless of the messenger.

The BS's need to know far supercedes the relevance of the OW's motivation. If someone is embezzling money from me, I don't give a DAMN who tells me, whether it be the embezzler or the cops, the point is that someone is harming me behind my back and I need to know this in order to take steps to protect myself. This man's wife needs to know so she can protect herself from him.

Admittedly, I don't believe for a minute that Lilly's motivations are altruistic [that is apparent in her willingness to rut with a married man in the first place] but the outcome is the same for the BS: MUCH NEEDED AWARENESS.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MelodyLane:
<hr /></blockquote>I think I find this whole idea of the OW telling the BS of her affair just as galling as committedandlovingit does. But, as galling as it is, the BS desperately needs to know she is being destroyed behind her back, regardless of the messenger.

Melody,
I was hoping that you would weigh in on this. I have always thought you had a great grasp of this kind of incident.

I agree, she NEEDS to be told. Gawd, I wouldn't have cared if the OW had told me...but if she thought for one minute that I would have bought the "moral" stance she was taking in telling me, I would have called her the "B" for what she was.

People are encouraging her to tell because it is the moral thing to do... but she is still conducting herself immorally with him, THAT is what is really frosting my cookies. I want people to tell her that it is IMMORAL to be with him in the first place...and no amount of exposure in the name of "morality" is going to make it right for her to continue as she is. Tell him because his wife needs to be told ...don't tell her..."it is the morally right thing for you to tell her that you are fornicating with her H". The morals have been a little absent with her, if you know what I mean. I was having a hard time even digesting that some people here think that they could prey on her sensibilites to act morally in exposing the affair to his wife ...while all the time she is STILL "doing" him.

Or, am I the one confused? Does it not sound insane to think that?

Silverthorn
For every name you called the WH on this post, there is an equally vile name that you could call the OW. You seem to be the attacking the WH when it takes 2 people to make an affair happen. What makes him anymore responsible than she is? You really should watch the name calling. You cannot label one anymore than the other.

committed

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by committedandlovingit:


People are encouraging her to tell because it is the moral thing to do... but she is still conducting herself immorally with him, THAT is what is really frosting my cookies. I want people to tell her that it is IMMORAL to be with him in the first place...and no amount of exposure in the name of "morality" is going to make it right for her to continue as she is. Tell him because his wife needs to be told ...don't tell her..."it is the morally right thing for you to tell her that you are fornicating with her H". The morals have been a little absent with her, if you know what I mean. <hr /></blockquote>ok, I better understand where you're coming from. Some want to give her credit for a seemingly repentant act that really is no such thing. Because she continues in the behavior that victimizes the BS in the first place. I find it hard to give her credit for warning her victim when she continues to victimize her.

If the warning were coupled with an end to the destructive behavior and a sincere apology, she might get brownie points for doing the right thing, but to continue to destroy your victim sort of takes away any merit from the act of warning the victim. If you really care about the victim, you STOP harming her.

My 2 cents and I haven't read everything posted
Please tell the BS .

I just wish that all OW/OM would come right out with it if the WS doesn't . This BS is probbly going crazy knowing there is something looking for what ever she can to not feel like she was stupid .

I did this for months, I new something. My FWS told OW all the same things, that I knew the M was "dead" that he was going to leave soon but was working things out for the kids BLAH Blah

When I called OW and she told me this I was so amazed at the lies and so was she .

He was telling me he was depressed didn't know why and it had nothing to do with me he had things he needed to work out but loved me very much .

What I am saying is call his W call her tell her everything , be sincere not a victom although in away I know you are hurt as well thats understandable .

But keep in mind both you and MM made a choice his W did not . Please think about that do not take away someones choice .

If after that his W leaves him and he divorces and he wants a relationship with you that is not one that starts off with lies and betrayal then I would wish you the best .

It is cut and dry he is unhappy then he can leave , he can be a good dad or great dad no matter where he lives . when 2 parents give there love to there children and put there well being first then those children will lack nothing .

Thats JMO .

MISS LILLY<

Can I ask...are you Married or single? Have you ever been married? And btw...I am a ws and have 3 children and doubt very much so that this man would even consider leaving his wife. Just my .02.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by meandgctbe:
 MISS LILLY<

Can I ask...are you Married or single? Have you ever been married? And btw...I am a ws and have 3 children and doubt very much so that this man would even consider leaving his wife. Just my .02. <hr /></blockquote>I am single but have been married before-never had infidelity on either side.

Well Ba109 from the information given by MissLilly I can spot a shark when I see one. But your are correct I shouldn't condemn someone without knowing the whole story. Of course you don't know the whole story either.

Myself I try to be helpful and I wouldn't attack the person I consider a shark if he started posting. Because at that point he is seeking help, unless he is here to justify his A then I give my opinion.

Sorry if I offended you. Not my intentions.
commitedandlovingit same apology to you, just struck a cord.

MissLilly

Keep working on yourself, read what you can on this site, its all helpful. I would agree that when you tell the MMW that you do it for the right reasons. That you tell her after you have gone NC with the MM. For me it took me 7 weeks before I when and gave two letter to the OMW. I did this when my desire to inform her of what and who she was dealing with was more then any type of revenge I wanted. Now I feel no obligation to her. I do want revenge, I would be fooling noone if I said I didn't, but I've also turned this over to God. I pray about that daily.

Misslily, I'm going to answer your questions.
Why doesn't he tell his wife? Because he doesn't want her divorcing him!
Does she deserve to know of his cheating? YES!
Is he entitled to block his phones when away from her or even while with her? NO
My H carried on internet and phone A for months before seeing OW. An old high school girlfriend he found again. over 1000 miles apart!
When I found his and her emails, he had told her he wanted to be with her forever, and they would both have their freedom in the future to be together. She is married to.
All the time he was feeding her these comments, cards, love letters, flew to shack up twice in another state, he had never once told me he wanted a divorce.
If he wanted freedom, he could have had it by filing! He kept the A hidden because he know I'd leave him if he didn't end it. Which of course, would have ended his fun before he got to sleep with her.
The night I found the emails, they were together in another state, phones blocked until I got the manager to go say you better take this call!
I talked to her because he ran out by pool and hid! That told her right away he was not looking for divorce because all he had to do was take phone and say so!
He flew home same morning, and never has seen her again! No contact initiated within days.
If your guy wanted his freedom to be with you, all he has to do if file, after telling his wife. There is no time later when it would be any easier, or cheaper or better! Unless of course he's planning on waiting till all the kids are grown!
You are not only being used, lied to, deceived and betrayed, you're just a cheap thrill. In His mind that is!
What you should do is cut off all contact. Why? Because you're helping a man destroy his wifes world. Her pain will be tremendous and I am a BS so I know! There is nothing to compare to it so far in my life and I've had family die, major sadness and other things. It is a living hell on earth to find the one you love and trust is cheating. And yes, the OP is just as guilty by association!
Not to mention sin against your soul!
If you want to save yourself a lot of unendurable pain, get out now! Do yourself a favor and find someone single! You'll be doing all involved a favor.
BTW, I wouldn't doubt he'll replace you with someone new within a week. And for the record, if he travels to other cities, he probably already has OW. You know the old saying about sailors? One in every port.
This man has no honor whatsoever.
Say goodbye and mean it. In fact, do it by phone.
Families need their father and husband. And to be able to reach them when need be. One of our children who are grown, could have died while H was gone or even I could have.He left absolutely no way to know where he was or how to reach. Until I found the nice emails by cracking his secret acct! And he had not checked in home for a week.
Both children have had serious close calls with death and so have I.
Anyone helping a cheater hide out and cut contact from family is lower than whale Poop. Believe it!

Her H just wrote me the 17th he's dumping her! And she's going to pay big consequences as adultery divorce in their state means no alimony ever! She's 61 yrs old. So she's paying for her perfidy as well. While My H and I have rebuilt and happily planning our retirement travel plans! She believe all his lies about leaving me and marrying her! Yet he told the counselor it was all BullSh-- as he was just flipping out and seeking a temporary escape! That he would be miserable without me and never intended divorce or for me to know!
They're all pretty much the same! LIARS!
LouLou

Misslily, save emails and such from him, facts, dates, places. Then break it off immediately and let the wife know! She should know for her own health and well being.
And I would bet you're not the only OW in his life!
I say let her know. I hate that most everyone around a person knows such as you said his co workers know or friends. Why the hell should the wife be the last or one not to know? It's her life!
TELL with Proof!
LouLou

All that stuff he tells you about how bad his wife is? Well, when my X and I were briefly reconciled between one affair and another, he called that stuff "pillow talk", designed wholly and soully to get him into bed with her. Even then, when I wanted my marriage back, I could see how disrespectful he was of both me and his OW, and it disgusted me.

Get out of it now. Don't look back.

Jacky

ba109 -- sorry I did not post yesterday had a heavy duty, really exhausting family thing here. Just a lot of physical labor but the results are great!

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> quote:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Originally posted by way2:
where did I say she was dragged into the affair?
<hr /></blockquote>I interpret this statement to mean that she was dragged into the A in some other way then by her own choosing.
<hr /></blockquote>Metaphor -- to drag was a metaphor for the emotional sucking in that is an element of ALL close relationships.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />She chose to involve herself.
She chose to be a distraction.
She chose to have an A.
<hr /></blockquote>True on all counts BUT:

1. We live in a culture that has devalued fidelity.. look at how popular that d#mn Uncle Kraker song got.

Those who do not have a strong moral base or a weakend mental condition (such as depression) sometimes fall for what songs, tv's and movies seem to be validating.

(hey John Ritter and Sting both found their current wives (or wife until time of death through EMA ... anyone say anything?)

2. I doubt whether the OP automictally sees themsleves as a distraction until it is pointed out to them by an outside party.

Likewise I don't theink WS see that they are running away to a distraction unless . . .

3. see number one

I'm NOT validating her A with a MM .. I'm not!

In nothing she has written up to October 27, 2003 10:35 PM (EST) has she said that she will continue the A and it doesn't matter what WE say (I haven't gotten to read the rest of the responses .. I'm catching up)

I would rather talk to her here and get her to leave the A, go to NC and rebuild her life than to have her go over the TOW board where she could get further dragged into the narcissistic lifestyle many women display there.

way2

[ October 29, 2003, 08:18 AM: Message edited by: way2 ]

MissLilly,

Hi.. how are you holding up?

I wanted to echo Silverthorn, and Yoda "Do or do not, there is no try." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It's not easy, but then doing what's right is often not easy.. but it does make you a better person.

When my H (I call him Myad here) had his A#2 .. he did not tell the OW a lot. He told her that I was angry with him and had been for years -- he did not tell her that I had been waiting for him to fulfill his 2 1/2 year promise of going to marriage counceling (MC).

He told her that he was unwelcome in the house. He never told her how he failed to get involved and how he had left the whole house, it's condition (inside and out) and all the kids stuff up to me for many years, due to his depression, which he never got help for .. which also helped continue my anger toward him and my pulling away.

He told her that he didn't feel like a man any more, that I was no longer interested -- he didn't tell her that he NEVER went to his doctor to have his meds checked and changed -- his inability in this area left me feeling less to him, I thought it was me, and I further pulled away.

It was his meds and they were changed a few months after d-day.. and that has made a difference in his own mental attitude and our relations.

He told her that I wasn't active any more or want to be pretty for him. He never told her about the chornic pain I've suffered for 9 years do to fibromyalgia, which left me unable to move at times ... that was already being corrected 1 week into his affair after weeks upon weeks of going to several doctors about it and another problem. (now I only have pain when I've eaten too much wheat and milk OR gotten too tired, like yesterday and today)

He didn't tell her about an email letter I sent him 3 months before his A about all the changes I was going to make for me and our marriage ... and I completed through the next 3 months before his A and one week into his A.

He found the draft for that letter on his computer three weeks ago and asked me why I had never sent it to him. I said I had and had the record on my account. He had forgotten about it and many things when he decided to have a A.

About 1 year into our recovery he talked to me about how much he didn't tell her... that she only heard his side of the story and that it wasn't balanced, it was designed to tug on her heart strings. (his words not mine)... he also realized how much of that was true about her and her H .. he had only gotten her side of the story and it now rang a little odd.

You don't know what has been going on in their relationship .. you only know what he wants you to know and it is probably designed to pull at your heart strings .. you don't know her side or the full story.

Yes you did make yourself clear that you want to end the mess .. it's not easy, but it's something you MUST do.

way2

[ October 29, 2003, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: way2 ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by way2:
 MissLilly,

Hi.. how are you holding up?

I wanted to echo Silverthorn, and Yoda "Do or do not, there is no try." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It's not easy, but then doing what's right is often not easy.. but it does make you a better person.

**Way2-
Thank you for asking. Funny, when you were writing to me, I was calling the W! Check out my new post and see what happened. Thanks again for checking in-I really need it right now!!
Misslilly

When my H (I call him Myad here) had his A#2 .. he did not tell the OW a lot. He told her that I was angry with him and had been for years -- he did not tell her that I had been waiting for him to fulfill his 2 1/2 year promise of going to MC.

He told her that he was unwelcome in the house. He never told her how he failed to get involved and how he had left the whole house, it's condition (inside and out) and all the kids stuff up to me for many years, due to his depression, which he never got help for .. which also helped continue my anger toward him and my pulling away.

He told her that he didn't feel like a man any more, that I was no longer interested -- he didn't tell her that he NEVER went to his doctor to have his meds checked and changed -- his inability in this area left me feeling less to him, I thought it was me, and I further pulled away.

It was his meds and they were changed a few months after d-day.. and that has made a difference in his own mental attidue and our relations.

He told her that I wasn't active any more or want to be pretty for him. He never told her about the chornic pain I've suffered for 9 years do to fibromyalgia, which left me unable to move at times ... that was already being corrected 1 week into his affair after weeks upon weeks of going to several doctors about it and another problem. (no I only have pain when I've eaten too my wheat OR gotten too tired, like yesterday and today)

He didn't tell her about an email letter I sent him 3 months before his A about all the changes I was going to make for me and out marriage ... and I completed through the next 3 months before his A and one week into his A.

He found the draft for that letter on his computer three weeks ago and asked him why I had never sent it to him. I said I had and had the record on my account. He had forgotten about it and many things when he decided to have a A.

About 1 year into our recovery he talked to me about how much he didn't tell her... that she only heard his side of the story and that it wasn't balanced, it was designed to tug on her heart strings. (his words not mine)... he also realized how much of that was true about her and her H .. he had only gotten her side of the dotry and it now rang a little odd.

You don't know what has been going on in their relationship .. you only know what he wants you to know and it is probably designed to pull at your heart strings .. you don't know her side or the full story.

Yes you did make yourself clear that you want ot end the mess .. it's not easy, but it's something you MUST do.

way2 <hr /></blockquote>