though, not twice...

<small>[ October 27, 2003, 08:07 PM: Message edited by: terminator ]</small>

MissLilly,

Do you really expect people here to believe that you care about this mans W? All you seem to care about is getting this WH all to yourself. He refuses to tell his W about the A so YOU want to tell her or at the very get a co-worker to tell her....anything to expose the A and in YOUR mind turn the tide in your favor.

You don't care about telling his W the truth. All you want to do is tell his W that you are f#ing her H.

Oh yeah....you really got class. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

This is marriage building site, not a marriage wrecking site. You appear to be on the wrong website. Why not try the TOW site.

ba109

you know ba109 that's not how I read MissLilly's post at all ..

I have spent the last week reading the TOW site .. if she were really doing and being what you say she'd be over there, not here.

IMHO she is really looking for a way out ... and after the posts I've read over there -- yes she does have alot of class.

MissLilly -- end the A, get on with your life and tell the W.

I do agree with terminator, that your motives make a difference. But they ONLY make a difference to you as the OW:

1. If you tell out of revenge or other selfish reasons then you will in the end reap what you sow as it will effect how you one day view yourself.

2. If tell because the wife deserves to know AND you end ALL contact you can begin to regain the self dignity and respect that this A is costing you.

but the W should be told

way2

<small>[ October 27, 2003, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: way2 ]</small>

way2,

Nope, not buying it. Nowhere does MissLilly indicate that she wants out of the A...only that she is hurt that he hasn't told his W about her yet. She wants to be his exclusively. She is beginning to feel betrayed by his dishonesty. She feels that if he truly loves her then he would tell his W about the A and devote himself to her exclusively.

She was not dragged into the A as you stated. She had a choice. She chose to have an A with a married man. Now she is choosing to continue in that A. The only problem is...her Guy hasn't told his W yet and she is getting impatient. When is she going to be #1? Right now, she is #2 and that doesn't sit so well with her.

It's not her place to tell the W about the A. That is the H's responsibility. MissLilly's responsibility is to simply walk away and end all contact. That is the furthest thing from her mind at this point.

jmho
ba109

where did I say she was dragged into the affair?

I agree with all you've said .. I just see the cracks ... I see some of chocolate addict in her.

way2

Miss L
Both way2 and terminator have "hit the nail...". Their advice always is compassionate and thoughtful. I wish I could think that clearly.
H

Hiker,

You will think this clearly. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but you will.

Every day that you act on belief and listen to God will make your thinking clearer. The simpler your life is (the more dependent you are on God) the clearer everything becomes.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by way2:
<strong> where did I say she was dragged into the affair?

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I interpret this statement to mean that she was dragged into the A in some other way then by her own choosing.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ...YOU deserve someone who won't drag you into his issues and probelms, problems he should work on and fix himself -- but he chose to run away and be distracted by you... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She chose to involve herself.
She chose to be a distraction.
She chose to have an A.

ba109

MissL,

First of all welcome to the forum.

You may not know what you've stumbled upon yet by coming here. Listen to the advice given to you and post back with any questions. Most importantly, act on it. This is the shortest path out of the trap you're in. The faster you do it, the better.
Go NC and don't look back. In a year you'll be as good as new. If you don't, a year from now you'll still have a pile of trouble to deal with and will have to go through the same pain of NC whether voluntarily or not. I am not clearvoyant, but I have one chance in 33 to be right, based on the statistics of the affairs.

Many have been where you are. Skip the pain. Do what they say.

I wish you all the best. You deserve it.

BigStar

Miss Lily,

I gota jump in here as well. I agree wholeheartedly with EVERYTHING every one has said to you, even though that may seem contradictary.

Please remember that we only have your post to form our opinion. I think, take it for what it is worth, that you are looking for this board to tell you to tell his wife because you are upset that he has not yet done so. I think that you would like nothing more than for him to leave his wife for you or next best option for her to find out and throw him out so that he could be with you exclusively. I think you are resentful of him for not giving you his full attention and "love". I do therefore believe that you do have selfish intentions in telling her.

That being said, hey we are all human. You have obviously fallen for this guy. Even the most faithful of all christians make mistakes. We just do. I do not believe that your intention was to make the wife miserable. I do not believe that your intention is to create misery among the children. I do not believe that you got into to this for the anguish you have now. He did not get into this for anguish or misery either. In your case no matter what someone is going to get hurt here.

Right now that someone is you. My guess is that you are hurting now, and his wife is hurting now as she thinks something is up (but do you really know that is true? no you do not). He is probably just scared of full disclosure from you. His co-workers will say nothing. Your affair was just a good trophy story for him to tell. I do not mean to hurt you, it is just that I have heard the stories all to many times from men that I have worked with. Men get into affairs almost exclusively for sex.

My guess is that he will tell you anything to keep the truth hidden, and to keep you in check.

So with the limited knowlage I have of your situation, this is what I would do if I were you. Let the poor woman know what is happening in her life, because that is what it is, her life that is about to get turned inside and out. She will have to decide what to do next. Be prepared to give her solid proof, as she may not WANT to believe you. At the very least be respectful of her and at the very least tell her about MB.

Next, go and find yourself a real man. A man that you can trust. Honestly could you, after the initial fairy tale you have had with him wears off really fully trust him. Do you want to live your life this way. REALLY THINK ABOUT THAT ONE.

He has lied to his wife that gave him three childern, why would he not lie to you as well? Get out of Disney Land.

Miss Lilly, really I am not trying to be hard on you. I just see you getting hurt. Move on to someone better.

I was the clueless wife who believed my H when he said he was out with the guys on Friday and Saturday nights. And then, when the OW got fed up with being second fiddle, she forced his hand and it all came out.

Down the line, she told people that I didn't deserve him - I was a bad wife, I didn't cook and clean enough, I gave him a hard time about everything, I was mean, I didn't really love him, I never forgave him after he had the first affair ... None of which had an ounce of truth to it, but he fed her what he needed to feed her and she filled in the blanks with her own imagination.

The bottom line is this: you don't have any idea what is really going on in their home. It is easy for him to tell you whatever he wants to tell you, and none of it may be true. Remember that marriage is a 110%-110% relationship - and a man who won't put his 110% into the marriage that got him 3 children is not ever going to put his 110% into a relationship with you.

He sounds like a cruel and selfish man, despite whatever side he shows you most of the time. Marriage counseling would not have hurt him, and he might have even saved his marriage, but "he said no way" - what does that say to you? This man has told you that what should be the very most important relationship in his life was not valuable enough to him for him to invest some time in counseling before tossing in the towel. Even his three children do not make this important enough to work on?

You are addicted to this man - the secret thrill of the forbidden relationship. But, as you've felt recently, the thrill ceases to be enough, and now you want more. If you push him, you will become the latest cast-off in his ego-centric world, because you will not be "fun" anymore. Men like this don't leave their wives and children for a woman who lives 1000 miles away. As long as you are willing to sit in the background like a fugitive, he'll continue to see you at his convenience. I'm betting, as soon as you want more than his convenience, you'll start to see and hear less and less from him, until you are left alone with your losses and your guilt.

Don't be a party to the deliberate disrespect of marriage, to the greedy selfishness of a man who can't be bothered to make his choices work for him, instead destroying 4 lives ... 5 if you count his own ...

Respect yourself.

Dear Terminator-
Thank you-thank you-thank you!! Your comments totally hit home and made me cry (Im sure that's just the beginning) a friend tells me to watch my motives and I know I want him to hurt as he has hurt and lied to me and her this whole time.I am so grateful I stumbled over this site yesterday! Best wishes to you always.
Misslilly

Originally posted by terminator:
<strong> I have to post!

I too was the other woman. Was, was, was. Never so glad to put something into the past tense. Albeit the fact that I truly did love X-MM.

However. Your first question seems to center around whether to tell or not. Nearly everyone here says TELL. They almost all advocate honesty at any cost (particularly when BS tells OPs spouse). So I am surprised that that standard is not carried more stringently in this case and you are not urged to tell the wife. (Get this--when my X-MM's W found out YEARS AFTER I HAD ENDED THE AFFAIR, she still wanted to stir things up and tell my H. Because it was "the right thing to do." She never did, because I think she feared backlash. But it shows you people's true colors and motives...)

So, my dear, what you should do is be totally honest WITH YOURSELF about your motives for telling. If you are doing it to punish him, this is not a good reason. It is not your job to exert any kind of control over any aspect of his life. Really, no reason having to do with him is a good reason to tell. Few people tell for truly altruistic reasons, it seems to me, and I've done a lot of reading on another board on this subject...

Just examine your motives, and if you're telling the wife for revenge, then you better dig 2 graves.

About the affair in general, trust me: there is nothing lasting or worthwhile in this for you except lessons whose value you cannot see until you are out of the affair.

Fact is, there are not good stats for men leaving families to be with a new sexual interest. Now, I know you are more than that and hopefully you do too. But he does not. You have let him put you in a box of his making, a convenient place in his life, for his purposes. You are a valuable human being who deserves more. Actions, not words...his have told the tale. You, however, should make your actions exemplary of a worthwhile, self-respecting, self-loving (and God-loving, if you're inclined) human being.

Leave him in the dust & get on with your life. It'll take a while, I suppose, before you're ready to give up, but you asked for advice, and that's mine. </strong>[/QUOTE]

Hey way2-
Thanks for your support as well! Maybe I wasnt very clear in my original writing, but I AM trying to get out of this mess. I want his wife to know cuz that is the LEAST she deserves (I have told him that too)out of this and if he hasnt told her yet I doubt he ever will. Him & I have had many discussions on being together permanently and I have come to accept that is NOT going to happen. (We are 18 hrs away from each other and he would NOT leave his kids-nor would I expect him too!)Because the acceptance has come in that is why I am trying to move on now.Trust would also be a huge factor for me sooooo...with those things in mind, that is why I write!
To BA109....."dont judge another until you have walked in their shoes"
MissLilly


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by way2:
<strong> you know ba109 that's not how I read MissLilly's post at all ..

I have spent the last week reading the TOW site .. if she were really doing and being what you say she'd be over there, not here.

IMHO she is really looking for a way out ... and after the posts I've read over there -- yes she does have alot of class.

MissLilly -- end the A, get on with your life and tell the W.

I do agree with terminator, that your motives make a difference. But they ONLY make a difference to you as the OW:

1. If you tell out of revenge or other selfish reasons then you will in the end reap what you sow as it will effect how you one day view yourself.

2. If tell because the wife deserves to know AND you end ALL contact you can begin to regain the self dignity and respect that this A is costing you.

but the W should be told

way2 </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Hey way2-
Thanks for your support as well! Maybe I wasnt very clear in my original writing, but I AM trying to get out of this mess. I want his wife to know cuz that is the LEAST she deserves (I have told him that too)out of this and if he hasnt told her yet I doubt he ever will. Him & I have had many discussions on being together permanently and I have come to accept that is NOT going to happen. (We are 18 hrs away from each other and he would NOT leave his kids-nor would I expect him too!)Because the acceptance has come in that is why I am trying to move on now.Trust would also be a huge factor for me sooooo...with those things in mind, that is why I write!
To BA109....."dont judge another until you have walked in their shoes"
MissLilly


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by way2:
<strong> you know ba109 that's not how I read MissLilly's post at all ..

I have spent the last week reading the TOW site .. if she were really doing and being what you say she'd be over there, not here.

IMHO she is really looking for a way out ... and after the posts I've read over there -- yes she does have alot of class.

MissLilly -- end the A, get on with your life and tell the W.

I do agree with terminator, that your motives make a difference. But they ONLY make a difference to you as the OW:

1. If you tell out of revenge or other selfish reasons then you will in the end reap what you sow as it will effect how you one day view yourself.

2. If tell because the wife deserves to know AND you end ALL contact you can begin to regain the self dignity and respect that this A is costing you.

but the W should be told

way2 </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

MissLilly,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> To BA109....."dont judge another until you have walked in their shoes"
MissLilly

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The whole idea is for people NOT to walk in your shoes. Do NOT participate in an A. You do not have to TRY to get out out of the A, you simply have to walk away. "Just Do It!"

The only reason you want to expose the A is because you are starting to feel betrayed and hurt. Now you admittedly want to hurt him in return. You don't want him to "get away with it."

If you truly want out of the A you should have no concern for him or his W nor the fallout of the affair eventually being exposed. It's not your business. Do the honorable thing and walk away.

jmho
ba109

<small>[ October 28, 2003, 08:51 AM: Message edited by: ba109 ]</small>

You do not have TRY to get out out of the A, you simply have to walk away. "Just Do It!"

MissLilly - IMO, thinking about the above recommendation, I would like to add one more thing - being in an A is having group sex - this scares the hell out of me - you really don't know what the MM's truths are, for he is lying to you and his W -
God Bless

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ba109:
<strong> MissLilly,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> To BA109....."dont judge another until you have walked in their shoes"
MissLilly

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The whole idea is for people NOT to walk in your shoes. Do NOT participate in an A. You do not have TRY to get out out of the A, you simply have to walk away. "Just Do It!"

The only reason you want to expose the A is because you are starting to feel betrayed and hurt. Now you admittedly want to hurt him in return. You don't want him to "get away with it."

If you truly want out of the A you should have no concern for him or his W nor the fallout of the affair eventually being exposed. It's not your business. Do the honorable thing and walk away.

jmho
ba109 </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">sufdb...Actually that is incorrect. It is everyones responsibility to expose and affair, motivations make no difference. The only important thing here is the the well-being of the BS. It would be better if the ws do so, but if they won't, anyone who knows, including the ow/om has a moral obligation to give her the information she needs to protect herself....otherwise if you know, and don't tell, you become a co-conspirator in the injury to the BS. Where motivation comes in is in how the telling is done. One should attempt to give the BS this information as compassionately as possible...but compassionate or not, the only ethical choice a ow/om has is to inform the bs...otherwise they compound the injury, contributing to an on-going conspiracy to defraud the bs of their life....and thereby remaining connected to the spouse as well...Nobody heals until everyone knows, that includes you misslilly.

Your choices at this point are very straightforward.

1. You tell the om you are done, there will be no more contact.

2. You contact his spouse, and as briefly. factually (no discussions of your feelings, etc.) inform her of your involvement in her marriage, give her such information as is necessary to establish that an affair did occur (times and places, contact methods, etc.)...express regret, and that you will have no more contact with her H, have told him so...and offer to tell her of any efforts he makes to contact you.

Do NOT discuss all the gory details of your interactions, if it was physical, just state so, she needs to get all these details from her H. But you also have an additional obligation (if she feels the need) to answer a few questions, or validate her H story (which no doubt will be lies, and trashing you...she may choose to believe his lies, or she may want to ask you).

You have incurred these obligations as a consequence of the choice to be involved with her H. By taking responsibility, and discharging these obligations, you will free yourself of his connections to you... you need that for your well-being, and so does the BS....any secrets you keep with her H, means you remain part of their marriage forever...do you understand?

btw I agree, aside from the obligation to end the affair, and let this man resolve his marriage however he will....even single his behaviour indicates he is not a worthy individual. I also think he is lying to you big time, and probably is a serial affair person. Affairs do happen, supposedly to anyone given sufficient emotional circumstances, but a responsible person deals with it, does not make it a way of life....and protects themself in the future from any such reoccurence. That responsibility starts with revealing the truth, and resolving ones marriage....alone, without anyone else in the mix.

<small>[ October 28, 2003, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: sufdb ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> anyone who knows, including the ow/om has a moral obligation to give her the information she needs to protect herself....otherwise if you know, and don't tell, you become a co-conspirator in the injury to the BS. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NOW is the time to take the moral high road...huh? <excuse me while I clean the screen from water spew> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Where were the morals earlier while schlepping around with him? To claim morality now is laughable.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> the only ethical choice a ow/om has is to inform the bs...otherwise they compound the injury, contributing to the conspiracy to defraud the bs of their life. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Gosh...let me clean it off once more.. <wipe wipe wipe>

ethical

yeah yeah yeah...NOW is the time to climb that "ethical" horse and ride it hard. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

They have been contributing to the conspiracy to defraud the BS the ENTIRE time.

The need to tell is less than honorable here. She no longer wants HIM to get away with it. Telling the BS is her way of getting back at the MM. It is still all about him and HER hurt. NOT the hurt of the BS. What kind of "fog" is that? The OW fog?

I have to agree with ba109. If she truly wants OUT of the affair she will turn and walk away. She won't be planning on him visiting next week when he is there for a month. She will let him go his way...and she will go hers. Just how hard can that be?


committed

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by committedandlovingit:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> anyone who knows, including the ow/om has a moral obligation to give her the information she needs to protect herself....otherwise if you know, and don't tell, you become a co-conspirator in the injury to the BS. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NOW is the time to take the moral high road...huh? <excuse me while I clean the screen from water spew> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Where were the morals earlier while schlepping around with him? To claim morality now is laughable.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> the only ethical choice a ow/om has is to inform the bs...otherwise they compound the injury, contributing to the conspiracy to defraud the bs of their life. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Gosh...let me clean it off once more.. <wipe wipe wipe>

ethical

yeah yeah yeah...NOW is the time to climb that "ethical" horse and ride it hard. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

They have been contributing to the conspiracy to defraud the BS the ENTIRE time.

The need to tell is less than honorable here. She no longer wants HIM to get away with it. Telling the BS is her way of getting back at the MM. It is still all about him and HER hurt. NOT the hurt of the BS. What kind of "fog" is that? The OW fog?

I have to agree with ba109. If she truly wants OUT of the affair she will turn and walk away. She won't be planning on him visiting next week when he is there for a month. She will let him go his way...and she will go hers. Just how hard can that be?


committed </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, that was all very entertaining, but the issue is the protection of the BS in this circumstance. If you have a logical/moral/ethical argument for justifying continued injury (through ignorance) to the BS, would you please make it.

Perhaps you don't think she can end the affair without revealing it too, but I don't think you can succwssfully (meaning using logical and ethical arguments) defend that notion behaviourally. They are not mutually exclusive behaviours, they are independent behaviours....and both need to be accomplished for one in such a circumstance to properly heal.

sufdb, committed...

Two comments:

The well-being of the BS is NOT all that matters, generally. The well-being of the OP matters as well--or it ought to matter, to at least the OP (and foremost to the OP), such that they realize that 'well-being' does not equal participating in an affair.

"ethical" is not reserved for BSs. Anyone and everyone can behave ethically, starting at any moment, in some small way. Anyone. And all should be called to that standard equally. Just as I said that hardly anybody tells the BS of the affair for pure altruistic reasons, also I say that no persons are good, in and of themselves. None.

<small>[ October 28, 2003, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: terminator ]</small>