Marriage Builders
Posted By: FinallyLrningT2H anyone who knows me here? - 03/08/05 05:42 AM
can't sleep, having a panic attack maybe, although it's more about my heart beating funny than anxioty feelings. i know this souds stupid but it is scaring me.
Posted By: RIF Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/08/05 05:47 AM
Hey FL - I'm here... what's going on? are you OK?
Posted By: FinallyLrningT2H Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/08/05 05:51 AM
just being a baby maybe, my heart was beating so hard and fast. seems a bit better now that i am sitting up. i have a fierce headache too. i took some benedryl.
Posted By: RIF Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/08/05 05:54 AM
Hey FL - Good... take some deep breaths... and try to relax... is anything in particular bothering you or worrying you? How did your weekend go with your H?
Posted By: FinallyLrningT2H Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/08/05 05:58 AM
he was gone until last night. he is so sad. my heart is breaking, how could i have hurt him like this. how could i have thought i could have somehow made things right with him. he leaves town again tommorow afternoon, until friday night <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Posted By: RIF Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/08/05 06:20 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FinallyLearning-T2M:
<strong> he was gone until last night. he is so sad. my heart is breaking, how could i have hurt him like this. how could i have thought i could have somehow made things right with him. he leaves town again tommorow afternoon, until friday night <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok... so you know that you've hurt him. Remember, that's all in the past. You can't change the past... but you can work on yourself and your M today...

FL, What's your plan for helping your H? What things can you do today that will help him learn to trust you again? What things can you do today that will SHOW your H that you are still committed to him and the M?
Posted By: KiwiJ Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/08/05 06:23 AM
FL2, do some diaphragm breathing and keep talking to us.

It's definitely a panic attack.

Jen
Posted By: FinallyLrningT2H Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/08/05 06:28 AM
my plan... to be loving, kind, patient, care for him, be here for him. i don't think any thing i do helps him. he tells me he does not know what he needs. he has told me he just might not be able to get past this. faithfullness is all he ever needed from me and i have not done that for him since before we were even married. all i can do is try to be the best person/wife/mom now. i just want him to be happy again somehow. do you think situations ever get to a point where the most loving thing to do is to leave? i cannot imagine myself doing that ever. such a far cry from what i used to think. i'm not saying i want to die but i seriously would rather die than divorce him. what if he cannot be happy ever again with me in his life. you will say, look at the facts, he is still here. yes he is here, but he is not happy. he deserves to be happy. when will he get to feel happy again?

<small>[ March 08, 2005, 12:29 AM: Message edited by: FinallyLearning-T2M ]</small>
Posted By: faithful follower Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/08/05 06:29 AM
FL, I am only here for a minute but wanting to send you a hug.{{FL}}
Posted By: FinallyLrningT2H Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/08/05 06:32 AM
Hi Jen, thanks, i am getting tired now, benedryl always knocks me out. i hate to admit this but sometimes i want to take more then normal dose. can too much be harmful? sometimes i just want to be able to sleep hard with no bad dreams.

FF, thanks for the hug. i won't keep you if you are off to bed. i have been thinking of you all day today, looking for any new news from you. you ok?
Posted By: faithful follower Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/08/05 06:33 AM
I'm ok, FL. Will post tomorrow an update. Get some rest.
Posted By: KiwiJ Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/08/05 06:33 AM
FL, he (and you) have had an awful lot to deal with. He's not going to be happy again overnight. And, yes, he is still there. Something very deep keeps him with you.

Jen
Posted By: FinallyLrningT2H Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/08/05 06:34 AM
ok, i just saw your post in your thread too. you get some good rest too. nite FF.
Posted By: FinallyLrningT2H Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/08/05 06:37 AM
i know it can't be overnight. but are you sure it will happen someday???
Posted By: FinallyLrningT2H Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/08/05 06:38 AM
i know you cannot answer that question. i just desperately need to know he will be ok someday and happy again. i really hate myself right now.
Posted By: FinallyLrningT2H Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/08/05 06:44 AM
i'm going back to bed. i'm not doing anything productive right now. please no one tell me i have to be happy. i am happy a lot of the time. i have my patience back like i used too. i'm being more productive at work again. i am happy with who i am right now. but i still hate myself sometimes for hurting this person so badly. i cannot take any of it back. i would, if i could. i would do anything to help him be happy again. anything.

benedryl seems to be working, i am very sleepy now, silly to fight it. i have only about 5hrs before alarm goes off for work
Posted By: LINY Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/08/05 06:50 AM
Hey girl! Take it easy, OK? (HA!!! Look who *that's* coming from!!!!) You *WILL* be OK. We men bruise easier, don't believe what you hear.You can't control how he feels or what he does; you *CAN* make him see the person you really are--and you know who you are. And you've done a damn good job of that. Be proud of yourself, FL. Smile. You've done wonders with your situation and turing it into positive. Now, rub off on me, damnit!

Anyway, just relax, OK. (Hehehe--gotta laugh again when I say that!)

{{{fl}}}
Posted By: RIF Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/08/05 06:51 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FinallyLearning-T2M:
<strong> i know it can't be overnight. but are you sure it will happen someday??? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey FL - I've never posted my 'entire' story here... but the short version is that my life was pure HE** for the first three years of our M. My W had multiple A's... I knew about one A, suspected another, and didn't have a clue about the other ones until 10 years later... So I know how painful it is for your H.

I also know that I made a decision to stay with my W... just as it appears that your H has made a decision to stay with you.

I don't know why I did what i did... everyone (from my parents to my co-workers, to my friends) all told me to dump my W after her 1st A. Imagine how I felt 10 years later when I found out that my W had other A's that I never even knew about!

It's going to take lots of work from BOTH of you, but yes, you and your H CAN be happy again. My W and I have dealt with all of our issues and our M is so much stronger now than either of us ever dreamed it could be...

Right now, your H probably doesn't know what to think... but he's still with you. FL, he's going to hurt... he's going to be angry... he has to deal with all of this and it takes time. The best thing that I could say for you guys to do is to find a good pro-marriage MC and start going... I know that you've said that he doesn't want to do MC... but IMHO, it will take a professional to help him thorugh all of this. You can't do it for him...

Don't hate yourself... remember, you can't change the past, but you can work on the present... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Semper Fi,
RIF
Posted By: LINY Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/08/05 06:52 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">please no one tell me i have to be happy. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That would be a *HUGE* stretch coming fomr my keyboard! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Go get some zzzzz's.
Posted By: KiwiJ Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/08/05 07:07 AM
Karen, no one's going to tell you you have to be happy. But I am going to tell you to stop beating yourself up.

You've been on the board nearly as long as I have and all I've ever seen of you is a really nice person who has done all she can to fix a situation that would be too overwhelming for most people.

Liny, listen to your own advice and TAKE IT, hon. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Jen
Posted By: Bob_Pure Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/08/05 07:34 AM
FL-T2M, I am the night palpitations KING <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

They really make you panic but they're perfectly harmless. Its your heart re-synchronising its rhythm after running on adrenaline for a long time.
Breathe, chill. I used Passiflora Incarnata to help settle me too ( herbal gentle muscle relaxant).

I rarely get them now.

Pro sportsmen get palpitations like that.You're a pro marriagebuilder, take care of your self like a sportsperson ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

{{{FL-T2M}}}
Posted By: RIF Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/08/05 12:37 PM
Hey FL - How are you feeling this morning? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Posted By: NCWalker Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/08/05 01:41 PM
FL,

Stop and think. Deep breaths.

Your concern for your husband is admirable. But you cannot hold yourself responsible for his happiness. His mood is his choice. You made it hard for him for a while, and now you are trying to make it easy for him to be in a good mood. To be happy. But it is his choice.

Stop and think. Remember the Principle of Superposition? Let's take the affair out of the equation. What if you hypothetically died prematurely in a good marriage? This too, would make him sad. Then time would heal his wounds and he would be happy again - if he chose to be. He could also choose to be a depressed widower for the rest of his life. Either way, it is his choice.

He has stayed with you. I know the reasons you fear he is staying. I can tell you hogwash. I am a guy, and the reasons you are worried about would NOT keep me if I felt like I had to leave. He is staying because somewhere inside there is hope.

What truly good and wonderous thing of this world that has meaning is gotten frivolously?

Your children are good and wonderful, because of the time and patience you sowed in raising them.

Your marriage will react the same way.

Don't let the enemy beat you down so badly.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">James 4:7 (New International Version)
Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are doing the submit part. You are being the wife you should be to the best of your ability. Now you need to work on the RESIST part. It is an ACTIVE word. You are not doing this and as a result you are being plagued with second thoughts and panic attacks.

You do have the strength to resist. I hear it in your voice. It is not easy all the time. But you can do it.

Much love and prayers,

NCWalker
Posted By: FinallyLrningT2H Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/08/05 02:18 PM
i wanted to let you all know, i am up, made it to work a bit late but oh well. thank you all for your posts. i don't know how i would be dealing with all this without your love and kindness. i'll post more later. i want to leave early today and be able to drive H to airport instead of him having to take a cab. i also want to slip in some chocolate coins and a note for him to find when he unpacks. i'm trying to think of other things to do. if the hotel has the ability to leave voice msgs, i plan to leave one each day when i know he is out of the room so when he returns he will get a msg.

i was just thinking, maybe i should find and start going to a MC on my own, seperate from my IC. at IC, we don't focus too much on marriage stuff, it's not really appropriate. or maybe i should focus more on marriage issues even with IC? is that appropriate. somehow i was just thinking that maybe if i am going to a C for MC, H may find his way into joining me. plus it would do me good to have strictly MC work going on along with IC work.

i guess i posted more now after all.

RIF, i don't hate myself really. i hate what i have done in the past. there is actually a difference. i used to really hate myself, it's not like that anymore, i think that is the only reason i don't try to inflict pain on myself anymore. there have been times when i would start, out of habit, but it actually does not have the same effect it used to have. it just seems stupid to do now. that is a good sign i think.

LINY, thanks for the hi and support. i really have lost track of how you and lynn are doing. i know you are having work issues (not sure if you lost your job or if you switched to day shift, which actually might be a good thing in disguise). i also heard you left for a while and you were struggling with gambling for a bit. however, even though i can't always keep up, you and brown are mentioned in my prayers, i thank God for all of MB and all here fighting to improve themselves and their marriages, but i also focus on specific people and you two are there. i just wanted you to know that.

bob, not sure if you know how much i follow what is going on with you. i guess i just wanted to say thanks for sharing so much. regarding Passiflora Incarnata, i did a search on the web, did or do you take it as a daily supliment or just when you started to feel bad or if you could not sleep? i did read this "However, some experts suggest not using Passion Flower with MAO-inhibiting antidepressant drugs." i'm on zoloft, not sure if that is a MAO-inhibiting antidepressant. i guess i could easily look taht up too...

benydryl does help but the next day i feel so grogy. i'm having a really hard time right now focusing, i'm very tired still.

thanks Jen for those words.

ncwalker, how? i am the queen of pro-action at work, drives some people a bit nuts, i think cuz if forces them to attempt to be the same a bit too. i love the word pro-active. but how do i do what you are saying? pray more? fight the neg thoughts? i don't mean to be dense..

FF, how are you feeling today. i'll have to go check in with you on your thread.
Posted By: NCWalker Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/08/05 04:44 PM
FL,

I will explain without getting spiritual.

It is simple, you train yourself to resist the negative thoughts (the devil).

Ever notice how different kids learn differently? Some by reading, some by hearing, some by experienceing, some by discussing. I mean, kids learn from all four, but kids have a method that works "best" for them. That is the foundation of training yourself. Find a method that works and use it to train yourself.

If your IC is "good" (IMHO) he/she will be trying different techniques to get you to focus on the positive instead of the negative. You need to find yourself a technique to learn to help you RETRAIN the way your neurons in your brain actually fire. YEARS of reacting "badly" for your own mental health has developed habits in the way your neurons fire. So they "naturally" react in an unhealthy way. Why? You trained 'em that way.

Like a student of martial arts, or a ballet dancer, doing the same moves ad nauseum. They are developing their "muscle memory." So that they can execute a complex maneuver without thinking. The repetition "wears in" a neruon firing sequence which becomes a preferred path for the signals from the brain to the body to follow. And then to us, it looks effortless.

Bottom line: If you want a conditioned response, you have to condition for the response.

Here are "some" techniques from various situations. Try 'em. Stick with what works. But it takes time.

If you tend to get worked up over your phone calls at work, put a note on your phone that says "I WILL CHOOSE MY EMOTIONAL RESPONSE" so you see it BEFORE you answer the phone. Read it, say it, THEN answer.

When you are relaying how you reacted badly to your IC, you will invariably discuss how you could have done it better. You may be working on several issues. Pick the one that is MOST IMPORTANT to fix. When you discuss a good reaction in this area, reinforce it tactily. Some people pinch their fingers together. Some people tug on a special bracelet. Cross your fingers. Tug your earlobe. A tactile reminder (that you don't do out of habit.) This technique works well for some (not for me). Then, when you get in a situation, stop and perform the tacile reinforcement. It will give you pause and remind you of all the good responses.

Come up with a personal code of conduct. Like the Boy Scouts. Write it, print it, whatever on something you have with you all the time. (Mine is on the cover of my Dayrunner.) Then, when you have down-time, don't daydream, start to memorize FL's code of conduct. You will find it is there when you need it later. Add to this list, as you need to work on things. Mine covers the gamit - being a better engineer, husband, father, person.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exerpt from NCWalker's list as an example:
1) Never forget the assumptions that go with the theory.
2) Don't put off the documentation - do it as you hear it.
9) Joy can be found in any circumstance.
10) Always make sure the mission is understood when received and clear when given.
16) Always remember to consider the downstream effects of what you do.
19) Before starting, run through the circumstances for failure.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I keep adding to the list when there is something I need to work on. Keep it positive. It should be a list of what to DO, not a set of rules dictating what NOT to do.

Your first one might be:

1) I will not let a situation get the better of my emotions.
2) If I am thinking of something that bothers me, I will think of something else. (NOTE: You MAY actually want to spell out a happy thought to think about).

I don't know, FL. I have made this whole trip without heavy drinking, or ADs, or other things I consider crutches (sorry to everyone, don't mean to offend, but that is how I feel about that stuff). I have bad days. And when I do, I am usually kicking myself for not CHOOSING to have a good day.

All it takes is practice. Try different things. Don't worry if others think they are stupid. We are talking your emotional health here.

Reward yourself with something you enjoy on the good days - the days you "win" at this battle. DO NOT reward yourself for COMFORT. That will just start an addiction. If you want that carrot, you get it when you PICK your mood and not let the enemy get the better of you.

Discipline. Practice. Train yourself. Keep a journal of your progress, good and bad. Review it at the end of the week and steel your mind to do better the next week.

You WILL see improvement. Funny thing about that. We are happiest when we are improving, not when things are going good. If we were happiest when things are wonderful, why all the griping when we are on vacation?

Lean on me anytime.

NCWalker
Posted By: Dobie Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/09/05 06:48 AM
I like Bob's advice. My personal favorite is Bach's Rescue Remedy. It helped me with my panic attacks.

Bach's Rescue Remedy

Also, Zoloft is not an MAO Inhibitor. It's an SSRI or selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor.

Dobie
Posted By: NCWalker Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/08/05 09:48 PM
Hi FL.

I promised I would post a link to a post I did LONG ago. It was during my dreaded 4th of July incident. I was ministering to a FWW named Broken Vessel who has since left the board.

The thread was very emotional for me. I was in pain when I wrote it. She was in pain too and had no reason to continue. Through my pain, and my way of dealing with it, I gave her a picture of hope. That is what the thread was about.

A Picture of Hope

The link will take you to the page in the thread. My post is the 9th one down.

Hope it helps. It brought back a lot of pain for me reading it again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> But it gave me hope, too. Which is the point.

Hugs and Prayers, NCW.
Posted By: faithful follower Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/09/05 04:33 AM
NCW, all I can say is WOW. I really needed that today too. God bless you for sharing such a painful story during a horrible time in your own life.
Posted By: FinallyLrningT2H Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/09/05 06:10 AM
ncw, thanks for looking up that post. i don't recall reading it when you first posted it. i am quite sure i would of remembered it if i had, it is a very powerful story. i'm doing ok here. i've been tempted to go into an angry "i've never been good enough for him" type of mood, but i'm thinking i'm just not going to go there. i'm just going to keep living my life and keep being the best person i can be. i really appreciate your support ncw.
Posted By: smur Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/09/05 06:18 AM
Hi FL,

How are you today?

I just read ncwalker's post from last year.
I'm in awe. There are some amazing people on this site. I hope it helped you, it certainly did stop me in my tracks.
Posted By: FinallyLrningT2H Re: anyone who knows me here? - 03/09/05 06:30 AM
hi smur,

i'm holding my own. H is out of town again until friday. going to just live my life as best i can, ya know? i'm not sleepy but i know i need sleep.

how are you doing?
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