I just can't handle it anymore. My WH actually deigned to come to a school jazz band gig for DS last night. It was at a blues bar nearby. WH made it and we had dinner afterwards. It was important to DS for WH to be there. He's a quiet boy but I knew he wanted it. I literally had to force him to call his dad to remind him. DS wanted it to be like last year. DS wants everything to be like last year. WH managed to make it. Late, but in time to hear DS's solo. Then we had dinner. By that time, it was nearly 9 p.m.

I should have just left. I shouldn't be around my WH when I've had a beer, it's late, I'm tired and I feel vulnerable. I expect to see my husband sitting across the table from me. BUT IT ISN'T. I can't seem to help what comes out of my mouth. I have to ask questions. I think that if he'd just talk to me, communicate, answer my questions, I could do it. But he doesn't, he won't and it hurts. I screwed up so badly.

When I'm around him, I can't stop it. I want to talk to him, I want a window into his life. BUT IT ISN'T THERE.

WHY CAN'T I PLAN A? EVERYBODY ELSE CAN PLAN A, WHY, OH WHY DO I SLIP INTO THESE TOXIC PATTERNS AROUND HIM?

Our DD was sitting next to me and refuses to talk to her dad. DS says that it's all my fault but desperately wants his dad to be back to normal. What the heck is normal? DS is right. I drive him away. I just can't seem to help it. My heart is pinned to my sleeve oozing blood.

At this early hour, it comes to be that I have to do three things. First, confess to his parents how I keep undermining myself. Second, take the final frontier and expose him to some of the people he works with. It was a remark about a guy at work that set me off. Third, I don't know, Plan B?

How do I control myself? Is this something SH could help me with. I'm feeling desperate enough to talk with him now. I can't adjust the alien so I guess I have to adjust myself.

This sucks.

I want to call him or email him to apologize for something? What? Being hurt? Wanting honesty? For missing my husband and my old life? For talking too much? For being in so much pain? I'm in tears as I write.

Stop me. It's just too much for me. The rejection is too much. I can't even remember our conversation anymore only the pain.

WHY CAN'T I PLAN A? EVERYBODY ELSE CAN PLAN A, WHY, OH WHY DO I SLIP INTO THESE TOXIC PATTERNS AROUND HIM?


GG I dunno. In truth hardly anybody TRULY does a plan A. You are honestly recognising that behaviour pattern which doesn't support your plan A.

In my experience indignation and a wayward 'taker' impelled bad plan A behaviour.

Combined these thing scan make a BS make 'gestures' which are intended to be dramatic and meanigful but which in truth usually don't mean sh*t to a tree to the WS other than reinforcing the nutty, bad-spouse-ness of the BS.

I learned ( by a miracle perhaps) that Squid had only peripheral vision when it came to reality. Whatever I did in he rplain sight would only have a construed negative, affair-reinforcing effect if one was possible. But good plan A behaviour performed CONSISTENTLY is always flickering at the edge of WS vision.

This meant avoiding LBs and meeting known ENs ALL THE TIME without gestures either loving or indignant. Also expecting nothing back.

Consistent 'lighthouse' behaviour is what is works for good, not any dramatic gestures or outbursts. For example, I bought Squid flowers each week, she'd put them in the bin accusing me of trying to bribe her.

So I bought flowers and arranged them myself around the house. I told her "Its my pleasure to buy them for you, you can so with them as you wish, but you arrange better than I do!" with a pleasant expression. She muttered darkly but left them.

Then after a few weeks she would stick them in water, unarranged.

Then she'd arrange them.

Then.... see ? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Consistency is the key. You can't plan A part time.

Its a giving time for a BS, thats why the taker needs to be caged and sedated for a while.

Its hard, darl' REALLY hard. But if I could do it, anybody can !

{{{GG}}}

Bob

Bob, the indignation and wayward taker-ness is getting the best of me. I don't know why it's hit me so hard. I just can't stop crying.

I guess I can't get used to the fact that even though WH looks like my husband and we were in a family situation, he is not my husband. He's checked out and I haven't. Nothing means anything to him.

I guess I have to accept that there won't be answers to any of my questions.

I'll work on the lighthouse but I need a brighter bulb.

[color:"navy"]Sweet grapegirl.
I would like you to find a message I posted from Star*fish.
The subject title is called: "Risk being happy without him".

I think it will inspire you; give you HOPE of how your life can be. (With OR without him.)

Sincerely, Julie <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Grapegirl - I think most of us struggled with the "alien" who replaced our partner. My WH used to be kind and caring. He turned so cold. That was the biggest shock to me. Then he blamed everything on me.

If you cannot do a good Plan A, might be time to think about Plan B. But first see if it helps to think of him as an addict, and see if that makes a difference.

Also please do some things for yourself - you cannot count on him to meet any of your needs right now.

GG....you are ceratinly not alone. There are some of us who parallel your sich to the word. The pain is God awful and it takes something away from us each time. I don't think there really is any answer to this but time. I don't believe that getting out there and taking care of you makes this any better. It does take your mind off things for a while, but it never really goes away. Each hour, each day, each week is bringing us closer to healing, but I think for the two of us the key is Plan B....No contact with the WS. Being with them brings back our need for everything to be "normal" again. Guess what?

My WH said two weeks ago he was filing for divorce, last week he said he was "thinking" about moving back home. I in the meantime am going insane. I have found out that he renewed his contact with OW, but continues to lie to me. But you now what...for some reason I can not let go. I want him back....and sometimes for a few moments I start getting afraid that he will come back and it will never be "normal" again. Personally I think if my WH would just file and I could sign the papers...the healing would begin. And of course the first time I see him out with OW....I will die a little, but I will get over it....and the second time I see him with OW ...I will die a little, but not as much as before. And then one day I will meet a man who is something my WH never was, and I will thank God. But until then the days are long and the nights are excruciating.

Do not continue to do things with him as a family unit. It gives the kids a false sense of hope, and when things don't go as planned....or the kids sense the saddness in you or the "checked out" expression on their dad's face, they hold onto that bad feeling for days. It is not healthy for you or them to be around him.

I think for both of us the reality is that our WH's are not happy people, they are lost souls who do not know how to find that happiness in what they have, they will never be happy no matter what!!! Would a Porche make my WH happy, perhaps for a while....would more free time make him happier...perhaps....would no responsibility as a father or home owner make him happy...probably yes. But this is what I have finally come to understand. My husband is pretty much unhappy with his life....it just so happens that I was the first person he could point a finger at. He will sit and be miserable and complain and then do nothing about it to change things. Yes he moved out and that in itself is making a change ...did it make him happy? I don't think so.
Does the OW make him happy? Probably but we all know that infatuation and the chemicals of new love make us all happy temporarily. So my message to WH and pehaps your message should be. "Ya know honey, I love you and I want to see you happy, lets identify those things in OUR lives together that could be better and lets come up with some changes that WE can make to improve things." Easier said than done with men like our WH's (stone walls).

But despite that, as long as they are not talking and not wanting to work on things...Plan B is probably the healthiest option. Hang in there GG....nothing I say will make the pain less, but just get thru the next few days and know that others are praying for you.

The biggest step for us is to do the Plan B and let our WH's have the time and space to figure out what life is all about, and if it turns out that they want to be a playboy then who are we to tell them that they can't do that. Just as long as they understand the consequences. We choose to stay in a painful unrewarding marriage even though we know it is not good for us, they chose to be unfaithful and hurt their families even though they know it is wrong.

I am just having the worst day. I haven't had one like this for a while. Maybe I'm too tired. I slept maybe 5 hours last night. I am so low. I just cry and cry.

I can be around my husband and be okay but in combination with my kids, it's too much. DD won't even speak to her dad. While we were at dinner, she set the menu up in front of her face so she couldn't see him. WH forcibly removed it. DS asked why we parents couldn't keep our money in one account like always. WH showed me a bruise he got because he played foosball at a bar for so long on Saturday night. That's just what a 52 year old man with a family should be doing on a Saturday night. That was a bad trigger.

I had thought I might be able to Plan A until DS's graduation. I just don't think I can do it. I have to go Plan B for me. I might borrow part of Starfish's speech for my letter. I really need the distance.

I guess I had a lot of good days. Gotta have a stinker in there occasionally.

GG..if you plan B please let us help you get thru each day and give you the strength not to reach out to him...for any reason. Let him contact you. You know that the kids will be OK if they don't talk/see him. And you know you will too.
Taxes are done, finances are split....you don't need to have contact. He will get the picture fast.

Lean..lean...lean....that is what we all are here for.

Now you made me start crying again.

Grape:
Will you be able to do this despite the graduation festivities? You will need to STAY DARK once you begin PLAN B.

What helps with being able to do PLAN A? For me, I was able to focus on MY PLAN, how I needed to change. You seem to focus on HIM and that will frustrate you. He is addicted. You can't talk an alcoholic out of drinking. He will have to reach "his bottom". That happens by going through pain. That's what happens during PLAN B. He will need to suffer in order to be motivated to go through the process of withdrawal.

Once I understood that my WH was out of my hands and that I could only control or change myself, it took a huge load off of my shoulders.

THE ADDICTION ANALOGY IS REALLY HELPFUL. It is important to understand that concept.

I know that. I know he's addicted to Slimeball and the feeling of freedom of housework, chores, homework, kids, dogs and sporting events. He has literally checked out. He is a teenager again.

I don't know how to do Plan B around a graduation. We'll have a house full of family that day and a friends party the next. DS will want his dad there. There's no way he'd miss it.

On the other hand, I just can't stand it anymore. My inlaws want to come up on Friday night and have dinner with us. Maybe I should cancel out. They want to see us get back together so badly. They talk about how WH wasn't raised to be like this but they've never confronted him.

Sad, sad, sad. The pain is bad.

Sounds like you have to wait until after the graduation, Grape. I think you can make it until then.

I would have inlaws go out to dinner with husband and kids...and you go out somewhere else...
without disclosing your plans....

remember that night not to long ago...when you were in a apt cooking dinner for your son and his friends...and laughing and sharing...
breaking bread together hold great magic and significance in man's history....

you choose grapegirl...

you too can always spend your evenings in a bar getting bruised from playing fussball....

OR you can have more evenings like the one you had with your son at college...

I know what I'd choose...
I know without hesitating....

ARK

Grape,
On your other thread, Orchid gave you some very good advice about how to handle the graduation while you're in Plan B. Please go back and read it again.

Remember: Plan B is not for the WH. Plan B is for you. It will give you peace and quiet and a sense of control. It will also keep you from starting to hate the sight of him, which is where you're headed now.

You've suffered long enough. (And Homer, so have you.) It's time.
Mulan

Seeing the WH at all would not be PLAN B according to the MB System. If you see him at all during graduation, do not call it PLAN B. Call it doing it your way.

Either PLAN A or PLAN B.

From Surviving an Affair:

GG -

You've been so much help to me in the past that I wanted to throw in what I could to help you - and maybe I can help a little...

You entitled this thread "Help me, I'm Toxic" - and I wanted to know exactly why you feel that way. It sounds to me like you are taking the blame and responsibility for the entire situation. It sounds like you blame yourself for your DS's feelings about you, about your WH's behavior - in short, if not for you, your family would be perfect.

Here's a secret: I did the exact same thing, I couldn't see how any of the problems that my family was experiencing was ANYTHING but my fault. I did an almost perfect plan A - and hoped that somehow it would turn my WW's head. In a way it did - when I went to plan B she kept trying to get me to explain why I had suddenly started hating her. But it never changed her behavior.

But in the middle of staying out of her business and concentrating my own behavior - and my thoughts about myself - with the help of a very, very good councelor - I began to realize that the truth of the situation was that I was actually a good father and that while I had a hand in creating stress between my WW and I, I was not responsible for anyone else in the family as to how they feel or behave about the situation (I qualify that because I do not allow my kids to misbehave, etc - which is my responsibility).

My DS17 refuses to talk to his mom, and grudgingly has spent a few days at her place. He is very angry about the situation, and has a lot of work to do to get thru it. But the blame is hers - she is the one who walked out of our lives, she is the one who chose OM over me.

I still have a problem in getting past taking the blame for everything that happens. But I'm doing a lot better.

The reason I talked about myself for so long was because I hope you can start looking at yourself in a new way - that you are a very capable and caring person - your help and advice on these boards shows that. You are wearing yourself down with needless stress. That makes you no good for your family (now don't go starting to feel guilty about that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)

If you do go to plan B (and it sounds like you may need to, I agree with Mulan) - just remember that it is not a plan to change others - it's protection for you - it gives you a chance to grow without being torn apart by the emotions and stress of contact with the REAL toxic person - the man who has abandoned his family, hurt you all, and shows no concern for anyone except himself.

Thoughts and prayers for you

David

I suppose I feel like if I could have kept my mouth shut we could have faked our way through a nice family dinner. I tried but the lies and silences get to me. Too many triggers. My DS was really upset with me last night. Today, he understands more. I shocked him this morning. Since we'd been out late at his concert, DS didn't want to get up when I went to wake him. There wasn't enough energy in my body for it. I turned around and said, "Fine, you're a senior. Figure it out." He stayed home for a couple classes but did homework during that time. I think he's processing his time with his dad too.

One of my hula sisters called a little while ago to see how I'm doing and if I'll go to class tonight. Sensing my mood, she offered to come directly over to my house. Instead we talked for a half an hour. I felt much better afterwards. My hula sisters have made our class a sanctuary. It's comforting to know that when I go to class I'll get a big hug from everyone. We will dance in graceful, flowing movements to peaceful, beautiful music.

Thank you everyone for your advice, comfort and prayers. I'm going to stick it out, best I can, until the first week of June. I'm just not going to call WH. I bet he never calls me either. Now if I can only stick to it.

I suppose I feel like if I could have kept my mouth shut we could have faked our way through a nice family dinner. I tried but the lies and silences get to me. Too many triggers.

Girl, you have SO got to stow this gesturing, indignant [censored] if you want to plan A. Detach. Chill. Consider.
What you describe is the death of every failed plan A I've ever read.

You are ABSOLUTELY justified in everything you want to do or say, but experience shows that if you want to recover your M, now is not the time to say it.

There is no 'near' plan A or plan B.

Do it or don't do it GG. I know how hard this is. You think it was easy for me choking down all my hurt and indignation only letting out a well considered boundary policing statement every so often?
But it WORKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DO you want to be right or do you want to be married ?

Up to you, Hon

{{{{G}}}}

gg -

I could not Plan A for the life of me. I am just not able to keep my big mouth shut, but I tried so hard not to call him a liar and a cheat (and worse), but my mouth always got the best of me.

I read everything on here too, all the time. Even asked Ark how to respond to a bold faced lie in a Plan A like manner. Well she told me and I still couldn't do it.

I went right to plan "I never want to see you again, I will have you arrested if you come on my property" when I found out he had a girl over on property we shared. I never told anyone this on here but I even slugged him in the face. He is 6'5 I am 5'4, it was a feat of freakness but I did it. I then pulled everything out of the trailer, including the bedding and ran over it with my truck. To his credit he left the scene and didn't engage in fighting with me.

And that was after being on here for three months.

I didn't grow that much as a person during this time because I was weak, and like I said, I got this mouth.

You do different gg, okay?

Everytime your mouth wants to get the better of you, think of me and say to yourself "do you want to pull a weaver, or do you want to save your marriage?"

That ought to zip your lips right up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Oh, grapegirl, I know how you feel!! Plan A is a b*&%#!! It's definitely the hardest thing I've ever had to do. And I still don't know if my Plan A is working, so you can take my advice with a grain of salt. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I have to bite my tongue continuously when WH is around. I have sucessfully avoided getting into an argument with him for about 2 months, no matter how hard he tries to start one. I memorized Orchid's reverse babble thread. It has saved my sanity on more than one occasion. I also try to internalize all the great advice I've received here. I even practice responses to WH's alienisms in my head sometimes.

I try to think of Plan A as a war on WH's affair. I try to plan my strategy and stay focused on my goal. When he starts his alien ramblings, I smile and babble, and offer him cookies. Later, when I'm alone, I scream into my pillow or do a kickboxing workout. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Is my Plan A working? I don't know. And I won't be able to do it forever. For now, it seems to be making him think - a good thing...I hope. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Good luck and God bless!

"offer him cookies?" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I never thought of that one. Probably more effective than T.V. kicking.....

I don't know if it's more effective. We shall see. The man does like homemade cookies, though. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Im sure. Most likely a lot more than my H liked getting his plasma kicked in on d day # 2. Or maybe it was # 3 or 4 <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Wow! I think 4 D-days is plasma-kicking worthy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Seriously, grapegirl, I've begun to think of Plan A like the episode of Seinfeld where George does the opposite of his natural instincts...and gets the girl. I try to do the opposite of what my natural instinct would be.

Yes, it does suck, though.

I think you're onto it. You need a visual for Plan A. It sounds like you have a little edge in your text. Does it carry into your speach??

Try this. You're a stepford wife. One of my friends handed me a note while on the phone with my wife. "Your calm, your cool, your Cary Grant!" When I mentioned this in a posting. Someone else gave the example of Grace Kelly in "Rear Window". Watch that and play the part.

Plan A is a little play acting. Get into it. If you're on the phone. Hold a flash card in front of your face with notes.

When you're with him, don't get too engaged in the conversation, don't engage. Does that make sense?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

There are many kinds of valour. "Fight or flight" bravery, risking a lot on an uncertain but hoped for roll of a dice, sufering with dignity. All these are valiant, but I have come to believe in my OWN situation that plan A - deliberately doing utterly uninstinctive things when when what I really want to do is take an axe to somebody is the thing I am proudest of in my life.

If a man ( or woman!) physically defends their family against attack EVERYONE applauds, understands and is supportive.

No friends say " you must be crazy for staying in the attacked household, get out; Have you no pride, man? The family's a slut, you're best out of it; plenty more fish in the sea; what are you ,chicken? Go kill this pr1ck!"

Everybody understands that kind of bravery.

Again when a person invests everything in , say, a busines opportunity. Onlookers may not agree with such a risk but secretly they envy the bravery of the investor, and even if it isn't successful, on lookers will say "well, you have sand, friend".

Plan A however requires more long term grit than anything else. And YES lives are actually at stake. And no-one can work out what the odds of success are, yet we must adhere to plan A knowing that every single tiny violation of the tenets of it can reset the clock to close to zero sometimes.

I am a big, physically imposing man with a streetfighting youth, no fear of conflict outside my M and I have felt clumsy, ill equipped and pathetic while doing plan A.

But I stuck to it in the absence of any other proven plan.

And it worked. WONDERFULLY.

My best friend, and my lovely SIL ( Squids older sister) have both told me that they are in AWE at my efforts against what was a desperately entrenched affair. Sure, others still think I'm crazy, and have lost respect for me as they believe I have been weak, but they are wrong.

Plan A is a heroes gig. I truly believe that.

And the feeling when you have personally rescued your family and your M from the crack of doom against the best efforts of Satans most invideous demons is inexpressable.

Through this process I have become a knight not a serf. I have seen true heroes emerge from this fight through these boards.

You ladies need to realise that there is no 'near' plan A or plan B. But you are SO close its worth that final 5% investment!!!

An automobile with 3 wheels fitted is not 75% as effective as one with 4 wheels.

A plan A with a weekly LB, or a plan B with the odd email here and there are left helplessly by the side of the road like a three wheeled car.

My outlet for all my nervous energy and anguish was the gym. wise friend Gimble advised me this and of all the wonderful help he gave me this was the best.

It not only helped me deal with my anger and pain, it made me physically powerful ( and more attractive to my Squid ! !)and allowed me to sleep better. MAN I've burned up some anger on those weight machines ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You folks are NEARLY there ! Just find your own coping mechanism and use it regularly before the tears and LB arrive.

In this way you can execute that last 5% of Plan A that will slice the heart open of your WS fog.

I am nothing special, yet I managed this.

You can do it too !

All blessings !

I beg to differ - you are definitely special, bOb. I can only pray that my Plan A works as well as yours has.

While I have done the opposite of my natural instincts as far as arguing with WH and telling him to get his head out of his nether regions, I have also enforced my boundaries about my children not being exposed to MOW (being the hero for my children, as Gimble instructed me). It's so hard to find the balance between strength and Stepford, trying to enforce boundaries while smiling and offering cookies. Will it work? Dunno. It does seem to be having some effect, though. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Listen to bOb, grapegirl, he knows what he's talking about.

Edited to add: Geez, does this make any sense at all?? I'm off to bed now...and no more wine!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

BOB:

Amen to everything you have said. My viewpoint is exactly like yours almost to a T.

Unfortunately, I had to also do a 3 month PLAN B but my PLAN A was definitely essential to the death of my FWH's almost 3 year A.

I hope GRAPE will listen to you.

My BLESSINGS to you and your W!

Today seems to be (at least in the hour I've been awake) a better day. I feel a little less fragile. I had an uninterrupted, deep, dreamless sleep and that makes a big difference.

I thank everybody for their help. Bob and his no-holds-barred "Girl, shape up that attitude" approach. I'm going to really work on Plan A for the next 5 weeks. The three wheeled car analogy is a great mental image. However, I'm not going to call the man. Can you do Plan A if you aren't talking? I'm not baking cookies. WH rented an apartment in a complex that bakes cookies for them every night. Of course, it's that crappy processed commercial dough but they do smell almost homemade when they're baked. I'll be pleasant.

Interesting things continue on this end. My inlaws seem to be moving to a more proactive stage. Instead of denial and wait-and-see, they are telling other relatives what is going on. They finally decide to take a stronger, more vocal stance with their son. Not that it'll do much good but nobody except me is actively telling him "Dude, this is not right!" I am so blessed to have these wonderful people on my side.

Last night, I went to my dance class. My friends surrounded me with love and laughter. We danced hard and I came home with a tired, satisfied feeling. Coming home was lovely. DD had finished all her homework and was working ahead on her math packet. DS had mowed the lawn and swept out the garage. Dinner had been cleared up and the dishwasher loaded. What special kids they are! I love them so.

Yesterday was my dark day. Today, even though it's overcast and might rain is going to be a beautiful day.

HULA GODDESS:

I'm glad that you are feeling better today.

You're experiencing the rollercoaster ride.

Your IL's influence will be a crucial ingredient in this.

Hang in there for the ride.