Yesterday I told my WW that I just didn't see any point of continuing the sham of R while she still refused NC. She said that my taking away all her cash so she could not by phone cards was helping her. I told her that was not the point. She was weak. It was not my responsibility to prevent contact - it was her responsibility to stop contact and I should not have to be doing those things. She says she has not called in a week. Big deal. We spent hours repeating the same dialog of the past few months. I was not angry - I simply said it was time to make a decision and get on with our lives. She has been withdrawn all week and I told her I am just tired of being the only one making any effort. I give up.

This went on for several hours. Eventually I told her that, if she really meant it, we would go together to buy a phone card, call the OM and give him a short NC talk. She refused. Didn't see the benefit. Eventually she gave in, we did go and call and she told him she was sorry but that she wanted to work on the marriage for the kids. I am not sure what all he said but I had told her before not to speak of love or missing him, etc.

Now this is not to say that she won't call him back today and tell him that she made that call under duress but I don't think she will. She may be starting to see that she can't burn her candle at both ends. I think I am starting to make it clear to her that party time is over and she will have to face the consequences.

In part of our talk, I reminded her what lessons her lifestyle would be teaching our young daughters. I also told her that in a few years I would make sure they both knew everything Mom had done.

Later she wanted to get intimate in bed but I refused. I think maybe no physical contact for an undetermined period may be good for me and it might be good for her too.

As an update, she does have a private session with the MC for next week and an appt. with the psychiatrist in two weeks and she seems eager to go to the latter.

Okay - not exactly Plan A but the phone calls gotta go. If she cannot stop contact, I am ready to see her go. I think she may be starting to finally grasp that.

So go ahead and beat me up guys but I wanted to update you.

He did not like me calling his family and friends and asked if it would continue.
If you continue, it's harassment.
Exposure is simply letting everyone know about the affair.
What they choose to do with this info (if anything) is up to them.

You do not & should not continue calling all these people.

I think everything you did was fine. EXCEPT refusing her in bed. Why did she want to be intimate? As an FWW myself that would have been my way of saying, I want to rebuild some of our closeness.

My H said (on d-day) if I ever made contact (on purpose) again in any way, shape or form I would be out the door. And he meant it.

Oh yes, and what Chris said.

I’m not going to beat you. But...
Could your reaction be the anger that was missing?
I actually think the NC phone call was necessary.

And let the OM be. You have so far shown great rational thought. If you think about OM then right now you want to distance him fro your family. You might actually be enticing him to “fight” you.

Yep, I'm with Jen here. What were yoy thinking.

Provided there is no STD issue, go for it. Take the crumbs for the moment. Rebuild some intimacy. What do you hope to achieve by pushing her away?

No hate, but I don't understand what you could possibly have to gain by refusing your W intimacy. Sex is NOT just sex to a woman, particularly with her H, and this kind of rejection could be devastating. I understand your tough stance, but you sound as though you want to punish her. "Good for me and good for her" sounds like justification to me, not common sense.

On the intimacy issue, two things:

1) When I told her earlier in the day that I felt like she was doing nothing to help R, she said that it was all about sex for me. That has never been true. I told her the only requirement I had ever had was no phone calls. Anyway, the sex topic had come up earlier so I was sensitive to it.

2) I was totally exhausted yesterday and was sound asleep when she came on to me and I just could not wake up. I don't know why I was so tired. I couldn't move. Maybe stress.

On the OM, I will not be harrassing him or his family. Not my intention.

It does sound like it was time for a new approach. What you did is sensible to me. I also agree that you should not have refused to be intimate with her. Remember you need to meet all her needs you can. Just because you insisted on NC does not preclude staying on track with Plan A. Your wife is conflicted in many ways. I have to believe that she will eventually compare what she did to the values she was raised with and to her love for her daughters and work on the M. You need to be her Rock of Gibraltar for the next several months. My guess is repressed anger bubbled up today. Back away from the roller coaster.

trac-

I don't think you did the wrong thing, except for the SF, and if it was bad timing, then okay, just don't refuse her again. I agree that sex is not just sex for a woman.

As for the OM and his family. I'm glad he is scared it will continue (not to say you should continue...but there's nothing wrong with him being unsure of that fact).

Good Luck and God Bless,

-Caren

OK, I've thought some more about the SF thing. Did you thank her for making the NC call?

Do you know what would have really knocked her socks off. If, when she came on to you, you said "I'm exhausted right now but wait till the morning." Then you'd have held her and thanked her for making the NC call and told her how hard you knew it was for her to do and that you appreciated she did it.

And that's straight from a FWWs mouth.

Could you do that? My H did and more, much more.

I also think you shouldn't harass the OM but heck, if he sweats a bit, so what.

I think you did darn good, traicionado! BRAVO!

The only downside was refusing sex, as the others said. But hey, even guys can get "headaches!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sorry for the delay. It is morning here so it is too late to say I am tired and wait til tomorrow. However, a few minutes ago I did make up for last night and her EN was soundly met and, afterward, I did thank her for making that call and told her it meant a lot to me (and that was before I read your post).

Repeat - I have never intended to harrass and have no intention of breaking any law. My plans are far more complex than that. Basically I believe that the OM was a predator and that, for his part anyway, it was not a simple A. There is evidence to support that but it is useless to talk to WW about it. He is a saint in her eyes.

Trac,

Good Job on the EN fulfillment and thanking her for the call (I'll admit, I would forget to do this when WH gave me info about the *A*) So WAY 2 GO!!!!!!!!!

God Bless,

-Caren

I'm so happy you "meet her needs"! I'm a FWW, and the F part is relatively new (5 months). The SF thing with my husband was soooo important to me when we were trying to reconnect!! Still is... helps in MANY ways <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />!

Thank you so much to the FWW's who have responded. Your insights are hugely helpful to me because I have a lot of doubt at times.

Thanks to the rest of you too. It is great to not be in this alone. And to those of you who are more familiar with my story, just keep kicking me in the rear.

LOL, I was going to say "one" FWW but I see Newstart here as well.

My "F" is almost 2 and a half years old and I'm very proud of it.

Good for you. You did good. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Oh good. Some of our wonderful women are helping.

I think you are doing just fine.

It sounds like your WW is starting to see the light at the end of the fog. I don't think that you did anything wrong. I still am nowhere near done with the OW. But I need to wait to give her what she deserves. Isn't revenge a plate better served cold (or something like that)?

Althougt, if I hadn't known the OW, I probably wouldn't be worring about her any longer. But since she was my best friend, she deserves "something extra."

There is one thing that happened to me and to other people in this site. After your WW is out of the fog, realizes what a fool she was and is commited to restoring the marriage, you might have a period of time when you could be feeling like ending the marriage. Just so you are ready if that happens to you.

I was reading a post yesterday by someone where it sounded like they were in recovery and the BS totally lost it for some trigger and went down that road.

To be honest, it had never occurred to me. I generally have not been looking that far ahead. I have one very long range view (i.e. family lives happily ever after) and I have two or three very short term targets (two weeks to two months). When I read that post, it scared me a bit.

I have seen my thoughts and feelings changing and evolving. Sometimes that has worried me. I asked myself early on what would happen if she changed her mind and decided she wanted the A and I did not. I couldn't resolve it so left it alone and haven't thought much about it since. Later I got to forgiveness and left it alone entirely. I guess I'll just jump off that bridge too when I come to it and get right back here for more metacarpal rearrangement from all of you of my gluteal region.

BTW, yesterday was a really great day and our weekend is starting off great too. Thanks again to everyone.

Rage is a typical emotion for a BS at around 6-8 months into recovery (typically) Just be ready for it when it hits and remember it will pass. I'm almost at that mark soon (6 months in March). I have already had some rage but it passed. I don't pretend I'm there yet.

So I've got rage headed my way in 6-8 months? It can be no worse than the rage I felt on dday. If it gets any worse my eyeballs will pop out of their sockets.

Todd,

Thay don't call it a roller coaster ride for nothing.

Remember it's a marathon, not a sprint.

ToddAC,

Yes you probably do have something to look forward to and you are more than strong enough to deal with it when you have to.

BTW, I forgot to mention, I have no physical problems like you have experienced and I am pretty strong. While I have never had to lift a 50 lb bag of deer food (no need as of yet), I have had to lift 50 lb bags of fertilizer out of a trunk and it is not easy even for me. I can lift 50 lb dumbells with no problem. Maybe it is the size of the bag, Don't know. I just know it is HARD!

Calling the OM, exposing to his side (friends/family), NC call..... fine. No SF, that's ok also. Why? Because she owes you STD testing with results B4 you should consider it.

Best you show that you have values and if you allow her back it is because you allowed her not by her good merit. She needs to earn your trust back not visa versa.

Btw, NC calls can be false. Expect a few slip ups.

How else is she meeting YOUR needs. Do you really know what YOUR needs are?


JMHO,
L.

I had already posted my story here earlier. Long story short - yes she infected me well before D-day. Too late. HPV so it is mine for life. It just never occurred to her that it could happen since the OM is such a prince and perfect person. He couldn't possibly ever have a thing like an STD - much less infect her without telling her about it - because his intentions were so honorable.

Yes this is her fourth (or fifth? I forget...) relapse. I do not believe she meant what she said. I do think it had an impact on her to hear the words come out of her own mouth. Do I think it is over? Not on your life. One step at a time.

I have not thought about my needs in quite a while. Kids are top priority.

"...get right back here for more metacarpal rearrangement from all of you of my gluteal region."

I'll be happy to oblige but, how do I do that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ouch. Something to remember the affair by?



I may be the only one here who thinks this, but I think this is a bad idea...for your wife, your marriage and your daughters. If your marriage survives WW's infidelity, what would you gain from this other than revenge? Try to release your anger in a more productive way. Revenge has no real place in a recovering marriage.

Also, don't put too large a portion of blame for the A on the OM. I initially blamed the OW as much, if not more than my FWH. I was off the mark. It frankly didn't matter that she knew he was married or that he didn't want to end his marriage. She ultimately owed me nothing more than she owed anyother person on the street. SHe never made any promises or committment to ME. My FWH, on the other hand, owned me the fidelity and committment he vowed to provide when he CHOSE to marry me. In an A, both the WS and the OP are at fault, but IMHO, the big rose goes to the WS.

I have come, over time to realize that FWH and OW lied to each other from the very beginning of their relationship. Big surprise, an affair built on lies! They betrayed each other as much as he betrayed me.

Who

Me telling the daughters about mom's affair will only happen if the marriage does not survive. I had a chat with my WW and I was explaining to her all the consequences of her abandoning her daughters. That was one of them. No revenge intended. I just think that some day they will have the right to know the truth about why mom left. I think you may have read that out of context to draw the conclusion you did.

I don't blame the OM for the A - I blame him for the HPV. Nobody twisted my WW's arm to have the A. She carries that load herself.

lealas,

You are already doing a fair job. If you want to leave a bruise, you will need a Saudi visa. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I agree that you should tell your daughters if she leaves for the OM. It was her decision to forsake her marriage and children. There is no reason why you should be the fall guy for her actions. Plus it is a good motivator for her to stay put. FWIW, there are good signs here and I believe she will stay. Eventually, what she had done will sink in and you will need to be there to pick up the pieces.

I think I read the phrase "sex is not just sex for a woman" at least 3 times in this thread.

pulease...

Yeah, maybe that's true for some women but it can also be true for some men. It was very hard for me to make love to my wife, the ONLY woman I'd made love to for 13 years, after she slept with another man. In fact, I hate to say it, but the first time we "made love" after finding out about OM, it definitely didn't seem like making love to me, it was more like having sex with a stranger almost.

If the roles were reversed and the poster was a WH who was refusing NC, would you all be telling the betrayed wife she should not have turned him down for sf when he requested it? or is that different...somehow?

This brings up an interesting point I was thinking about last night. After my W comes out of the fog and we really start working on this, one of the first things I'm going to need her to do is get blood work done and be tested for STD's and HIV. We've had sex twice since the physical part of her A, but this was before I knew of it. We have not since, and it's not for my lack of trying, I just know that now's not the appropriate time so I haven't pushed it.

Has anyone else asked this of their WS?


FN

Definitely get her and yourself tested! Bad thing is the waiting part for HIV tests <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I completely agree with Orchid. Not only because of STD (which is a little too late in your case), but SF should not be turned on like a switch because the spouse wants it. If you are not emotionally into SF at that time then it is not a good choice.

I turned my FWW down a few times at first because all I could do was picture her with him. Wondering if she made those same sounds, wondering if her breath was short and quick at that certain moment, and so on. Not the exact turn on to get me in the mood. Besides, me not having SF with my FWW also made an impact for her as to how much it really hurt.

SF is not a tool just because the spouse says I'm in the mood... it's a shared moment. Turning her down for SF is fine if your heart is not into at that moment. If she can't understand that then she's pretty shallow.

traicionado,

No visa, so no bruise <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

eldente,

I absolutely agree. When my WW first came back, we avoided SF for maybe 4 weeks (maybe more - can't remember). Part was because I felt the love had been violated, part was for fear of STD (who was I kidding?), part was the "can't have your cake and eat it too" philosophy.

After we did move to SF, it was definitely physical. There was no love for me. It stayed physical for months. Even now (5 mo after D-day), it is still physical but it is intimate (and fantastic). It is like having sex without someone while dating but not in love. I adopted the mindset that I was "dating" my wife. Partly to see if she was the person I would want to marry and spend the rest of my life with. Taking on that attitude helped me tremendously. It is all in the way you look at it. That was the way I needed to look at it.

Sex or no sex is a personal choice and, for me, it was difficult to want to do it initially. I will say that, IMO, if you withold sex in order to "teach her a lesson" or to try to manipulate her feelings or actions, that is a mistake. Just make your choice for a "better" reason than that.

Another thing I had in my favor is that my WW is Latin and they all grow up with the belief that the wife is "la mujer del esposo". Roughly translated: she is my woman. Not too women's libbish but I didn't raise her - just the way she is. Don't blame me. Latin wives are not introduced as "my wife" - they are introduced as "my woman". For me to refuse sex with her would be a sign of weakness in her eyes and she would not respect me.

Hopeful,

My WW was not a virgin when I married her. I know it is not the same thing but she has been with others besides me. Mental images are a killer. Those thoughts you mention are serious triggers. Thankfully they have faded although I am sure I will hit a trigger somewhere in the future. I feel like I am walking through a minefield (and yes I have actually done that in Kuwait so know what it feels like).

ToddAC,

Thanks for the encouragement. I was in bed thinking about things a few minutes ago. I used to have cats when I was young. Sometimes when they got into something like paint, syrup or whatever, it was necessary to give the cat a bath. I am not talking about a cat that has been bathed since a kitten. I am talking about a cat that is deathly afraid of water and never been bathed in its life. Have you ever tried to give a cat like that a bath in a bathtub? I have on three occasions before kevlar was invented. The best description I can think of for my WW going to the OM is like trying to put a cat in a bathtub.

I could be wrong but, so far, I see claw marks on every doorframe.