I just wanted to create a thread away from the judgmental attitudes that prevail in many posts. I am FWW new in my recovery and wish to possibly speak with others new in their journeys who wish to support each other in their quests for healthier M. I'd like for no one to be ridiculed or shamed for their posts.

LOL

S, you do understand those who support MB principles can post here also, right?

Go for it, longhorn!

Just in case you didn't see my question on your other thread:

How can NOT exposing stop an affair?

I don't know all of the answers. You bring up a good point: I'm not saying it won't work in all cases; I just thought people might want to consider the possibility that widespread (aka...beyond immediate family) could produce the reaction of a fleeing WS

HI....I am a FWW, not so new anymore...almost two years since DD, but I can help you in any way I can. At the beginning I felt just like you, that everyone was against me. Some people's comments are mean sometimes, but it should not discourage you from posting.

Good luck!!

Myrta

Myrta, a friendly voice!! I would welcome any input. Right now, I am struggling terribly with withdrawal, but I made a commitment to NC. Any good suggestions? And how long does the process usually take?

Withdrawal....it can take anywhere from a month for some people to up to a year for others. It took me like six months to get the fog completely off my mind. Just mantain NC, and it will happen. I mantained occasional phone contact and thats why it took a bit longer. I wanted to let go slowly for the sake of the OM (I felt sorry for him),but also for me I suppose. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.

Anyways...its hard no matter how short or long the withdrawal is. You think you are never going to get over it, but you do.
It will be two years for my husband and I in June 1st. Long time already.

By the way, in our case , there was never exposure of my affair!! Thats the way we BOTH wanted. It has worked so far!

It's good to hear that. My H and I both want that. I will continue to keep up the NC. The only time it was broken was when the OM contacted me,and I hung up immediately

sf...the only suggestion I have to you is day-by-day & truly owning your actions. Until that happens, true recovery cannot begin. As far as how long the process takes? Months..maybe years. It all depends on your level of ownership. If you live in denial or convince yourself that it really isn't all that bad - that you were "forced" into that place, it will take your lifetime...and will continue to drive a knife in your BH's heart...regardless of what he may tell you.

There are a number of benefits to exposing outside the immediate family.

For one, it limits the ability to hide a continuing affair because someone you know may see you and tell your BS, especially in a small city. Having to look over your shoulder all the time can kinda cramp the romance and excitement, don't you think? Oops! The affair is no longer as much fun as it was before everybody found out!

Secondly, since MB advises initially exposing to people who have influence over the WS, this could include extended family, friends, the pastor and church congregation, employer and co-workers if it's a workplace affair, and neighbors.

When a WS ends an affair, it is very common to see him/her trying to dictate the terms of recovery. For example, many WS balk at being accountable for their time or sharing all passwords and phone calls. Many of them refuse to answer the BS' questions and tell the BS what the BS NEEDS to know. The truth is, most would rather just pretend nothing ever happened. A WS or FWS insisting that exposure will not help the marriage is also trying to dictate the terms of recovery.

The WS is the one who CHOSE to make this huge mess, so why in the world should the WS be the one to dictate how to repair the damage caused by the affair?

LC...you are wise.

If I had been able to dictate how our recovery worked, it wouldn't have worked.

Habiba here,

I agree with your post, LC...when I realized that my H was about to expose the A to my MIL (my A is w/ my FIL, her H), it really scared me for the first time and showed me the consequences of my actions...up until this time I've been hoping to keep him, stay in town, and try to marry him someday...but how could I even think this when it's exposed?

My H hasn't exposed it yet, and still may not. He's away this week at my request, and I feel so much calmer. Life is easier when we don't have gut-wrenching talks every night. Anyway, sfjaj, I wanted to dialogue more with you, since you invited me to on your reply to my thread.

For me, I would have a difficult time NC'ing my FIL unless we move away. Even if we do, and my MIL doesn't know...we'll still have each other's phone numbers, kids will want to talk to him, etc. I know we'll maintain contact "when the going gets rough." If MIL knows, she'll hopefully take steps with my H to prevent us knowing each other's phone #'s until the worst is over.

The downside of her knowing is she might D him. They've always had a difficult M...this won't help, I think. And if he's suddenly alone, I would feel so responsible, and care for him, that I'd prob. be tempted to contact him again. Ugh.

Good Q, sfjaj. Someone referred me to Suzet's thread on W/D. Find the link on my Plan A/Plan B post. I'm going to read it right now...

Hugs to you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Sfjaj -

I hope your journey is a prosperous one. Please don't get discouraged. If people didn't care, and situations like these weren't so important, they wouldn't take the time to comment. Just remember, people post because they care. If you can look past their style, their tone, not take it personally, all of it will help you on your journey. Maybe you already do this, I don't know, I wouldn't presume that I can get inside your head.

If you want to make your own decisions, that's certainly okay. When you post them here, some are going to agree, others are going to disagree. You know, that's just how it is.

What I do, when I disagree with someone, is I take all of my emotions out of it. Second, I remove myself from the position of advocate.

I'm neither for or against either side of the debate. I start with the other side first.

I treat it like if I was hired to give a presentation on the ideas, data, facts, etc. No commentary, no opinion.

Perhaps what can help you on this journey is to attempt to do that with the MB principles that you've read in books or on this site and lay them all out. Demonstrate that you are an expert in all of those principles. Each and every element. Ask the experts here, did I get this right or that right. Not debating whether you agree with a principle or not, merely did you get it right.

I think if you make this a whole hearted attempt at demonstrating that you understand all these principles, you may still disagree with some and you may change your mind on others. But you will find that first understanding them, and then seeking to be understood, may well be the best way to make the most of your journey.

Lot of work, I know. But for what's it worth, when I have taken this approach of trying to understand someone else or some idea that appears opposed to my own, I emerge with considerably better conclusions.

As always, happy to discuss. Good luck.

sfjaj...

I am really sorry that you feel that I was hostile towards you...If you will look back on that thread, I hope that you can see that my intial communication with you was caring in earnest(I know the fog stuff is off putting to you-it was to me too last year-skip the word fog in those posts if you must for now, but remember that "fog", "foggy", et al. is not a name, but a state of existence)...please believe me when I tell you that I care)...In one in particular I told you that I wanted you to have the JOY that comes from true recovery...that IS what I want for you and your husband...

Now, I am also human, so yes, in my last few posts, you did have me riled...but it is because I really have been where you are...kind of how you butt heads with your child when you see them make the same mistakes that you did...you don't want that hurt for them...THAT is where I was coming from...I am sorry if you didn't see it that way...really I am...

sfjaj, I am so adamant regarding the principles here at MB because I have seen them work, in the lives of others, and my own...when you see something move mountains, you want so much to share it with others...I want to share that so much that I am really and truly upset that I upset you-that is the kind of person that I am-I'm NOT a meanie, at all...NOW, I won't back down from MB principles, and I won't tell you only what you want to hear...that wouldn't be caring...and I do care...

You see, Mr. Wondering and I are a success story from MB...and also, we are one of a handful of couples that post here...I think that says a lot about how very much that WE believe in the MB program...how could we not believe in it? To not believe in the principles of MB would be to not believe in us...and we do exist...recovered...because of the excellency of MB...We would be fools to downgrade it at all...Really...can you see that? It has also worked for us rather quickly...one year ago THIS WEEK was when my A turned physical...I can't tell you how far we've come...You should read my old posts...I'm pretty sure you wouldn't recognize me...you *might* actually identify with me...anytime that you'd like I'll pull a few for you...

I wish you the best...I do, honestly...with all of my heart...

Mrs. Wondering

Guys, I've been on the board for 2 years. I've been part of two threads such as this. One was called "letting go of the OM" which wasn't what it appeared from it's title. It was a group of us (very foggy) who were doing EVERYTHING in our power to recover our marriages. Certain things were banned. One of them was "foggy" talk. Sadly, very few of the people I talked to then actually recovered their marriages.

You'll appreciate there's a fine line when FWS's get together - you want to support each other but you don't want it to become a "poor me" thread either.

I can't remember the name of the next thread I joined but I was "unfoggy" by then and used to come into it waving a big stick around quite often. Unfortunately, that thread degenerated very badly and was finally locked by the mods.

I guess all I'm saying, it's a good thing to support each other but if this thread needs a big stick waver, I'll be in here like a flash.

Every thread, BSs or WSs, needs a big stick waver I can assure you.

Take a look at the SmartCookie one, the MrWondering one and the Mrs Wondering one Jen. They could use some stick wavers

LMAO, BigK, like I said to you last night, I think I'm being really rough and tough and all people say is "isn't KiwiJ sweet." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

That may not be a downside for her, though, and that is what COUNTS. It is her safety and security that is at issue here, she is the victim, after all. She must be told so that she can protect herself from you and her H.

And she may very well want to end the marriage, that is HER RIGHT, and ONLY HER RIGHT, to make this choice. NO ONE ELSE has the right to make that choice for her. To not tell this woman about your affair with her H is cruel, manipulative and DANGEROUS. No one has any RIGHT to deprive her of the right to make that choice. It is HER LIFE.

I am also utterly SHOCKED that you would ever allow your children to see the OM again. There should never ever be contact between the OM and your children again. That is extremely disrespectful to your H and to your children. You and your H can never recover if there is any contact again. You will be in a perpetual state of withdrawal and your H will suffer a new D-Day on every contact.

Habib, you and your H have a moral obligation to tell your MIL the truth. Anything short of full exposure is only compounding the CRIME. Truth is the solution to adultery, not more lies and deceit. To allow this woman to go another day without telling her is heartless, MEAN and CRUEL. Do the right thing, Habib. Think about HER well being.

If a person enters an AA meeting and has been sober just a few weeks ... that person cannot offer insight to another newbie as to what it takes to remain sober for 10 years ... What I am saying to you has nothing to do with "being worthy" but I am noticing that you are very inexperienced at Marriage Builders concepts... and it shows.
Your worth is completely in your own hands. How you choose to live your life will determine that.
Please, take care

sfjaj,

there are plenty of FWS around, including on the recovery board. I am one too. If you are going to post on MBs, you need to remember that everyone is posting out of their unique perspective and experience. Not all of it will be 'about' you... but don't be too quick to assume it isn't!

What kind of support do you need? There are some threads about withdrawal around - Suzet put together one that you can find on the archives.

Good luck! It has been a very long and very painful journey for me, but I have learnt huge amounts!

Sfjaj,

Here is a direct link to my withdrawal thread. I’ve also bumped it for you.

I hope you will find it helpful! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Also check out this link:

A Recovery Guide for Wayward Wives

Take care,
Suzet

Just talk to them like you kick my [censored] Jen, that'll stop the sweet comments ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

OK BigK...

I'll concede the sc & Mrs. W threads to Jen, go ahead, Wave Away *Big*Mean*Tough* KiwiJ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />...But the other? Well, ahem, Mr. W has a <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> *Big Stick* <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> of his very own... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> *wink*wink*nudge*nudge* <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />LOL<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

sfjaj, you really need to tell the OMW. Truly that is the only moral thing to do. She has a right to know about the A and the OC. It does not change the legalities you and your H are working through. Your H is still the father of record but that woman needs to be able to make a decision about her own life and have the knowledge to heal her own M.

habib, same to you my dear. Your OMW needs to know, even if it ends their marriage. That is no longer your responsibility.

I'll tell you this, new WS's... I haven't been a WS for seven years, and in that time I have learned a lot about myself. One thing that I did that was a BIG, HUGE MISTAKE, was to align myself with a WS who was at the beginning of her own recovery (vets may know this story). I got myself tangled up in a big mess because we were both struggling so much... and both of us were building (or rather, trying to REbuild) our houses on sand.

You need strength, not weakness to rebuild. Surround yourself with strength. Yes, get hugs from those who are where you are -- no problem there -- but get your FOUNDATION for rebuilding from those who have the TOOLS and MATERIALS to TRULY rebuild.

Pepperband mentioned above about AA, and her example is exactly right.

Please be very careful.

sfjaj,
I am really not sure how far after DDay you are or what has transpired in your situation until this point, but I offer something to discuss. In my sig-line are a couple of links to things I wrote when I was being a little more enterprising around here. Read them, if you have the time and we can discuss them. If you disgree, that is fine. Again.... just discussion. If you are not interested in the slightest, also fine. I will not push the 'word of MB' down your throat. The choice to hear is yours.

Sometimes the mob-mentality can get a little harsh around here. And I really don't think smartass remarks on a forum are helpful at all... even when they are 'called' 2x4s. Anyway, I offer a little discussion about what I wrote. Take it or leave it. Your call completely.

Wow, I thoroughly benefited from and enjoyed reading several posts...patriot, suzet, and even the last one from Mrs. Wondering. I am absorbing the very good advice.

Faithful, my obligation to the OC and her well-being is more important than my obligation to the OMW. I plan on following through with notifying her, but not until the legalities have been covered.

Habib, I do have to agree that your MIL should know, but I realize everything is difficult for you right now. Place working on your M first. The withdrawal is very difficult; whenever you feel as though you may break NC, post here and I will gladly respond and try to help talk you down. The feeling you get from the OM may seem difficult to break, but it doesn't have a future. One thing to ask yourself is how do you feel about the A with him? If a relationship is good for you and for others, it shouldn't FEEL shameful. These are a few of my thoughts, but I in no way criticize you as i am on the same journey. Perhaps we can help one another in the journey...

Hi sfjaj~

I'm being a little lazy here, but I'm going to copy/paste a reply I gave to someone on GQ awhile back. He was seeking suggestions for his fww who was having a tough time w/ NC and withdrawal.

I'll tell you though, from experience because I'm a fww with OC like you, it does seem withdrawal takes a little longer. Well, maybe not so much the withdrawal itself, (as in missing the xom), but because of the OC, it makes it difficult to totally and forever erase xom from the mind. It does get better though, I promise-- I'm 3+ years into NC and for a long time now, he has not crossed my mind every single day like he did for the first 2 yrs. And again, when I thought of him, past the withdrawal, it wasn't thoughts of missing him, but the thought of him usually came to mind when OC would make some expression or something to remind me. I'm just saying I think it's a little harder when there's an OC involved, BUT don't let that be an excuse to not get past the withdrawal and NC. It can be accomplished!

So anyway, here's my previous post I referenced. I hope it helps.:

My best advice to her is to view NC as moment to moment. If she can think of NC in small incriments, it's much easier than thinking of it in terms of trying to get through the next month, 6 months, year, etc because that can seem a daunting task. It's that one day at a time theory, only I'd break it down in smaller amounts of time if she has to, to get by and make it easier for now.

Then lo and behold, the longer she's gone NC, the easier it gets, because she's further and further removed from the A and the addiction of it.

The other thing that really helped me was to find a diversion, and QUICKLY whenever I thought of xom, (or worse, thought of contacting him). When I thought of him, I'd do things like phone or email my H if he wasn't home, (this works 2 fold, because it kept me accountable to H as well-- actually 3 fold, because it pleased H that I was sending a greeting out to him). Other things I did was to go for a walk, phone a friend, read a book, bake a cake, take my kids out to the mall and movie...whatever I could to divert my mind from him. So, she needs to keep herself busy.

Then once again, lo and behold before she knows it she will notice she is thinking of him less and less, and missing him less and less, and NC becomes easier. Plus she will have also brought herself back to the land of living, by doing all the things she may have once thought of mundane during her A. At least that's how it was for me. I was actually happy to be living a normal "boring" life, instead of my previous double life-- it was quite a relief for me. I'll never forget the joy and peace I had within one time driving back home from taking my children to our little downtown, to do some decorating for homecoming week. During my A, and even before, I had begun to hate my motherly chores, but after my A, I was so happy to be doing normal real life things-- to be living a REAL life again. I remember thinking, I feel like I can breathe again.

Ahhh, I'm sorry for rambling. I guess a lot of those feelings from the early days post-A came back to my mind when giving you some pointers.

Before I close though, the other thing I wanted to mention, and this is a BIGGIE-- do you guys do the recommended 15 hrs per week together as H & W? That was critical for us-- actually, after an A, it should probably be more than 15. It helped to turn our M around, at the same time keeping my mind off xom/withdrawal pains. It also gave me an up close and personal look at my H for the first time in a long time, and helped me to see that xom paled in comparison.

Autumn Day <<<~ I've been a fan for years .... but you already knew that!

AutumnDay, you make excellent points: that should help me.

teeny tj~~ Pep, As I you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I would love to talk more with you about the OC issue as that does seem to make it more difficult

Anytime. I don't post a whole lot anymore, but when I do, the P/C forum is where I do most posting. It's home to me. I saw tigger has been helping you, and she's great! She's the one that helped me the most when I first came around. Along with some other wonderful souls like Just Learning, TMCM, and even many BW's.

sfjaj,

Thank you, I really needed to hear that...I'm really not so bad <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I had genuine heartache for you last night-I was emotionally drained-I used a lot of emotion and energy with you, seriously...I have hope for you...I can tell from the language that you use in some of your posts that you are an intelligent woman...I guess that's why I've been blunt with you at times...I can see that you have what it takes to use all that is here to the benefit of your family, and doggone it, I want you to use it...And, like I said, I see some of me in you...

You may find that FWSes will be some of the toughest on you here...please understand that it's because we know, we REALLY know where you are coming from, and we care a lot, we wouldn't be here otherwise...and we would love it if you could learn from our mistakes...that usually isn't possible for anyone...but you will see, soon you will be right alongside us in our frustrations with fresh FWSes...and you'll be a REALLY tough one on the newbies, because you are smart, and you will know...and they won't believe you when you tell them that...it'll break your heart and drive you nuts at the same time...just wait and see...

When I was intially posting...though I didn't like it at the time...I learned far more from 2 x 4's than from coddling...it was the 2 x 4's that forced me to look at myself and they also opened up the most communication for Mr. W and I...the 2 x 4's allowed him to take my side a bit...we became a team again-and we hadn't been that in a while...in that way, it's good for you to be offended here...you are tough...you said so yourself...you aren't gonna tuck tail and run now...nope, you are already in...now, we just have to get you to go "all in"...You are starting to get it...I hear it in your tone...keep going...I am rooting for you...But I'm still gonna tell you when you aren't getting it...btw, "FOG" is easier to type than Failure On Getting it...Get it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sincerely,


Mrs. Wondering

Why Mrs. W, I'm beginning to really value you! Would you know I cried when I read your post to me?!

See girl, I just wanna be your "dorry" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />...hate me then love me...Wait, if I'm gonna be dorry, I should've said, "See, dear" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> LOL She killed me with that!!! And since she's Canadian, I feel that I should throw in an "eh" for for good measure, so "EH"... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Don't cry...you're one of the ones who are gonna make it...I just feel it...

I'm here, at the ready, should you need me...for a hug, question or a "friendly neighborhood 2 x 4" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />...really...((((sfjaj))))<----------You need one of those right now...and a "high five", to boot...Keep at it...it will all come...just be open to it...A recovered marriage is a million times better than a fake fantasy affair...EVERYTHING about it...conversation, recreation, and believe it or not, the sex...that part is hard for you to imagine right now...I would bet...you doubt those feelings will ever come back...give it time...they will...Have Faith...

Mrs. Dubya

You really do know. I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I do miss the SF with the OM

Hello
It has been just one week since my D day.
D day my H got drunk and he called my only sister to told him all, well his version, he blaimed me, for all,he showed him as a victim..
He wanted to show my real me (he said), he never accept any error, so I was the bad in the movie..
My mom, and dad, knows also, and my father said that I should realize that Im a marry woman, and I shouldnt continue with such behaviour..
OM was a man I met online, and my relatives arent familiar with internet.. they dont understand... and Im for all the bad girl..
Its very difficult, to deal with this.. but I think we can do it..

Yes, I do...my first posts were about that...Mr. W seemed "clingy & needy" to me then(Well, duh, I had just put a knife through his heart and made his entire world unstable-how else was he suppose to seem? Confident-yeah right)...I didn't want him to touch me at all...reminded me of OM...that will pass, really, it will...Also, you have spent much time characterizing your husband as the "bad guy" in order for your brain to justify the A...you probably spent time with OM verbally devaluing him together...it takes your brain awhile to catch up to reality...you are reeling right now...baby steps...

Here's what Dr. Harley has said about sex in affairs...it makes so much sense...when you and your husband get to the conversation and affection, you will find that the OM will pale in comparison to your H in the bedroom...it's hard for you to believe now, but it is honestly true...oh so true...there is a deeper bond that you will feel...I hope that your husband is reading here and embracing the principles...you will get there faster if you are both on board...Have either of you read SAA or HN/HN?


Here is the link to the rest of the above article... web page


Mrs. W

Hey MrsWondering...I was just "wondering" if you could find some of your original threads and post them on here so that other FWS's can see where you "were" when you first posted.

I was able to find your first post back in 7/01/05, and I am quite amazed how far you have progressed in about 8 months. You posted that the affair just ended 10 days prior to that post. I had read that you met this OM when you were just 13 and that you felt that this was going to be so difficult to get over because of the "history" behind it.

I'm amazed to look back at my first posts as well and realize how hopeless I seemed! I honestly didn't know how I was going to recover. And you know, I think each of us FWW's are a little different in how fast we do recover. My A's were mostly online and it took me awhile to move past the OM where yours was quite different and you seemed to have recovered very quickly...

So, how did you get from that post in 7/05 to a fully recovered FWW today?

How did you move past this OM that was a "hero figure" to you as you wrote in your post?

What do you think helped MOST in your journey through recovery?

us

ooo i can help you there - let me go dig - let me tell ya - I wanted to slap that lady back then (love ya now dubya)

SHE REALLY felt that calling her OM and him being a jerk was closure and it worked for her so we shouldn't dis it - that it was the best things he ever did to see her OM's true colors and her H didn't mind at all................


We explained to her how it put her back at day 1 and how much it probably DID hurt her husband - even if she thought she did it right (HER WAY)...within a few days she started to feel the concequences to her actions - her husband was hurt, and she went through anger and withdrawel again.........She was determined not everyone had to do it the MB way - that her way would work to....

The woman so full of self rightcheousness and entitlement - she couldn't see how much her husband was hurting...she owned her affair - but was determined her way would work...that her history was differnet, that her situation was different...


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...age=335#2749178

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...age=335#2765038

LOL I realize I sound so eager to show the worst side of you Mrs Dubya - ya know it's not that way - i just LOVE to see how much you have changed and how far you have come!!! I just love ya to pieces today!

Thanks dorry. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I'll take a look at those threads you posted.

To which Mr. Wondering replied...



<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I do so love this man...and he is correct, "us" is a HUGE part of why we have recovered quickly, that is not to imply that ours is a perfect life...We always laugh...and dang, I cannot for the life of me remember who said it...but someone here once said that we reminded them of the couple in the movie Stuart Little...now THAT is HILARIOUS!!!

Well 2BNormal, many of your questions relate to my OM and my relationship to him...2 Things...(1)My initial posts (which I'm glad to see dorry posted links to for you-thank you dorry...yes I know how you feel about me...and you know that I love you and will always be grateful for you)anyway, those posts were, as you pointed out 2B, 10 days out of NC...and as we tell everyone here...FOG BABBLE...BLAH BLAH BLAH...ME ME ME YADA YADA YADA...those mean nothing...I am no different from any other WS in that regard...and(2) Something that I have come to learn in recovery is that OM/OP doesn't mean JACK SQUAT! OP could be anyone, you fill in the blank...The OP is NOT about the WS wanting someone other than the BS...the OP has nothing to do with anything about the BS...the OP IS about the issues of the WS...Who the OP is is of no significance at all, in fact the OP could have been Bozo the Clown...in fact, I recently noticed that when Mr.W and I speak of the A ,I refer to OM as OM...NOT by his name...by the way, that was not even a concious decision...it just happened...I personally think that speaks volumes...So, onto to Recovery...

What about "us" has allowed our seemingly quick recovery...hmmm...

I think that I will tell you what each of us has done positively(there will be things that I know I will forget, I will do my best)...

What Mr. W has done

1. He has NEVER yelled at me...EVER

2. He has NEVER judged me

3. He has NEVER called me names

4. He has ALWAYS allowed me complete freedom to speak...FOG and ALL...no matter how much I know
the things I said hurt him, and they were HORRIBLE...I mean REALLY REALLY DESPICABLE...

5. Reading and posting here...being fully on board with Marriage Builders...

6. A willingness to forgive...and move through it...trying to turn a negative into a positive...

****All of these things gave me a safe environment from which I could freely share...I have told him EVERYTHING-sometimes too many details, I am sure...There are NO secrets...We talk openly today about the A...that seems to be an obstacle for some...we have always been very candid-that is just our style-we know that this doesn't necessarily work for everybody else...but it is who we are...and were...

We got lost along the way in our marriage...I think that we thought that we could just pick up later, and not nurture our relationship since our rapport had always been so great-NOT TRUE, OBVIOUSLY, we let "us" slide in consideration of our DD, business, etc.-That is what caused our marriage to become ripe for an A on both sides...The affair was my poor CHOICE and mine alone...It came out shortly after Dday that, prior to my A, by about a year or so, that Mr. W had propositioned one of our staff, she, luckily, declined(good girl-though is certainly not on our staff any longer...she had gone long before the post dday revelation)...Needless to say, our marriage was going nowhere very quickly...I had given up in trying to get him to come home...I certainly did nothing in the way of making it an inviting place to be(I still struggle there)...and Mr. W had just completely withdrawn...So, as odd as it sounds to some, without the A...we aren't sure there would be an "us" anyway...We certainly wish that it hadn't come to that...but THAT is where we were...We most definitely had long since left God out of our marriage-a surefire method to destroy a marriage, in our opinion. Our marriage is better than it ever was, we hate to say because of the A and choose to say in spite of it...but it was the catalyst that made us both wake up, and realize just how much that we do belong to each other...that each of us is God's perfect choice for the other...

What Mrs. W has done...

1. Fully accept and own that the A was her choice

2. She is completely transparent...an open book, once again

3. A lot of self discovery...looking at the reasons behind the choice...that is an entire post
in and of itself...abbrev. version: stunted development issues-childlike behaviors and
entitlement, getting past living in daydreams...understanding that being happy with me is
my issue, in other words, it doesn't matter where you are or who you are with if you aren't
happy with you-*you* does not change based on others-To WSes or new FWSes struggling with
withdrawal-YOU are the same with your Spouse or the OP...the issues that *YOU* have will follow
*YOU*...***Still working on ME***

4. Remorse...genuine, deep remorse...a FULL realization of the pain that I caused...right now,
I am at a loss for words as to how deeply in my core that I feel this...it would be too much
detail for a post...I go bit by bit...piece by piece...selfish action by selfish action...and put
myself as close to what I can imagine that he felt then...I want to just die when I see
what I did to him...and I know that he lived it...so it was worse...I am tearful as I am typing
this as I am in my apologies to him...I said in another post today that affairs are
SHAMELESS ABUSE...I cannot believe that I did that to any living creature...let alone the one
I love most in the world...it makes me sick...when I think of all that he had to hold together-
COMPLETELY ALONE...I am so ashamed of me and so amazed and awestruck by him...I wish that I
could truly convey my feelings here...Mr. W does know...I'm not sure that I will ever stop
telling him...and *trying* to show him...

5. Reading and posting here...being on board with Marriage Builders...



***I know that there is more...probably really obvious stuff that I am leaving out...these are the things that we've done...I think that each hinges on the other...we have worked in tandem...since withdrawal was over...honestly both of us being here has given us what it takes to do that...we are on the same page...what made us come here together? that's just our personalities...we can't really take a lot of credit for that...we just are who we are...So we are still the same great couple that we were in the beginning of our relationship...now we just have the tools to keep us where we are suppose to be...and NOW we are concious of the feelings and needs of the other...which means we are concious of our errors...which is the first step in overcoming them...Obviously, we still disagree at times...but a recovered marriage is incredible...and while obviously, not perfect, is the real fairytale...

Hope this helps someone...it is our truth...(albeit an abridged version)


Mrs. Wondering

This has been a interesting and helpful thread.

That was a very worthwhile post, Mrs W. and should help
many to keep trecking on to the victory of recovery.
It will help BS to see that foggy WW CAN become FWW.

I was searching on Yahoo to find out what TOW meant.
(Yeah, I know, kinda dumb of me.)

It took me to THE OTHER WOMAN and this Marriage Builders
site. Below was the thread it used as the example.

Oh my goodness, wouldn't it be embarressing for
perfectgirl to have Marriage Builders use her
FOG BABBLE WW thread for the TOW search in Yahoo? EEK

CLICK HERE: Being the other woman....entire thread

MrsWondering,
Thank you for sharing your journey of recovery. I had actually only asked one question pertaining to the OM - about you referring to him as a "hero figure" - I found that interesting that you felt that way, but yet see how you are today!

Our stories are somewhat similar in that the OM was from our teens (mine was just a summer vacation romance) and we both were contacted through Classmates. I think this OM from my past had me on a "pedestal" for years as the "girl of his dreams" and when he contacted me after more than 20 years, I was so naive that I fell into "the trap". I would have considered my marriage and my life good at the time, but I was very naive in thinking that a few emails with this man would lead to where it did. Well, that was the 1st OM, and the 2nd OM seemed a "hero figure" to me because he felt called by God to help me move past the 1st OM. I met him on a Christian forum (when I posted for help for the 1st OM) and he "helped" me for about 6 months before we ourselves fell into an online A. Such a mess I was in when I arrived on MB last March! And you are right, it mattered not who the OM was at all. It could have been anyone...it was who I was at the time. I am so thankful today for the marriage I have and the committed husband that God gave me!

I think what you shared will help many WW's and FWW's to see the light ahead and to continue on their journey of recovery. Looking back at your original posts showed me where you were and you were very much like any other WW that comes on here - myself included!

You are blessed to have your husband post on here with you. I believe I have shared in the past that my husband dislikes forums and doesn't even want to read here.

I really liked these top 3 that you spoke about MrW:

This is so important and it was not something that I had at the beginning of my withdrawal and recovery. Now, yes, but it was a struggle for us there with these 3 you mention. I am sure it made it much easier to freely share with MrW. I can see that as a major "key" to your recovery because I know it was one of our "set backs".

And of course the points you made about what you have done are very "key" as well! Thank you again for sharing and being honest on here (even on your original posts back in July) as it helps those that are on the same journey!

those were interesting to re-read ... and sort of sad too

HEY! we could type actual cuss words back then without the ***** showing up!!!

it was sad for me to read Low Orbit post about the importance of maintaining no-contact with OW who had been a long time family friend ... last year, Low went to coffee with OW when they accidentally met in public ... and Low told his W, she had promised him if he ever did anything like that their long M would end ... and now that boundary is being kept by Mrs Low .... if only Low had listened to himself <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W,

I know you know how blessed you are... and you are, indeed.

I don't think about this stuff often, and my ex-H and I have forged a relationship that is now good - but... in the beginning...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

1. He yelled, screamed, and called me names... mostly a 'wh*re'...

2. He kicked at me as I lay in the fetal position on the floor...

3. He had affairs of his own in retaliation for my affair, even though he'd had several affairs before me...

In short, he helped me along with the deep depression I was already in...

And although I take complete responsibility for my affair (he did NOTHING to deserve it - I should have divorced him instead of having an affair if it was that bad)... his actions afterward were very detrimental to my mental health and our marriage (NOT that my actions weren't - they were).

It was in that state of mind that I continued to make decisions - which were (again) not in the best interest of my family, my (then)H and myself.

Amazing how it goes around... and around.

You are blessed, Mrs. W, and so is your H. I wish you continued blessings and it is a joy to watch your marriage flourish.

God Bless you!

Aint that the truth New Beginning...

Some WS are so blessed to have great BS's...my husband is great and we have come a long way - but it wasn't so....

we started out great and he posted here, but 3 months into recovery...

1. he started to yell, scream and call me names and degrade me - wh*re was used, sl*t was used, opening my legs to other men, half the woman I would ever be, on and on....

2. He distanced himself and i was not allow to even so much as touch him or call him honey or it would be pressure...he moved to the basement

3. He eventually started up on a singles forum, almost had an affair with an office girl, then met an OW on those forums that would never hurt him and be twice the woman I could ever be...and left me for a future with her.

A month later he came back with his tail between his legs...but has never been on board with councellors, MB - he wants to recover his way....so it's been slow - but we are THERE....

but here is PROOF that your marriage can RECOVER even if you think you have the worst husband - that he neglects you , that he wont change, that he isn't like some of the Bs's here....NB has shown it, My marriage shows it...and many others too...

Wow, wow, and a third WOW! I never imagined opening up this thread would teach me such amazing and wonderful things! I wish I had read it all before the OM ever began telling me about his feelings for me...may have prevented much heartache. All I can say right now is thank you for taking pity on a woman, such as myself, with a huge ego and chip on her shoulder by sharing such wisdom. I hate crying when I'm posting...

sfjaj

I just hope you can see no one is being mean to you - it's more we have seen it all before - and for us FWW's we have FELT it all before...and wanted to do it our ways...but doing it your way may never solve the problem at hand...but your way will be easier yes....

For me - i want the marriage I deserve...I want to be happy, to do that I have to do things that are uncomfortable change wise - but the results are amazing and worth it....and all of it takes time

I am THE most IMPATIENT person in the world...the one thing all of this has taught me is patience....something I never thought I would have....

This is a quote from another thread sfjaj that you wrote. It's a good start...but i want to challenge you to look deeper. Un met needs are a symptom, but not so much a cause...the harley's write about it but by no means should you ever stop and let those be the final excuse for your affair.

Why? Because there wll ALWAYS be times in your marriage where your needs may not be met, or you will be unable to meet your husbands - be it work, children, fights. Two people who are willing to but 100% effort into doing MB will succeed - but alot of marriages - not both are willing to do such huge changes.

So...what in you let you have your affair when your needs weren't being met? WHY did you need them to be filled by someone else. WHAT made it SO nessessary to have them filled that you couldn't even THINK about the risks to your life and family?

THAT is where YOUR personal recovery lies and the key to a good happy future.

There are many roads to explore - was it co-dependency? Was it self destructive coping mechanisms? Was it surfacing problems in the past...are their cycles in your life of depression or addiction......explore ALL these aspects and be honest with yourself in each venture... It's gonna be hard, it's gonna hurt.

But you can prevent this from EVER happening again, and you can PREVENT miserableness when your H can't meet your needs by figuring out what is inside YOU.

Oops, sorry about that 2B...I should have said your *post*, not your questions, seemed to put emphasis on OM and the dynamics of that relationship...I know that I misunderstood. In hindsight, I'm sure that you were trying to paint a picture for the fresh FWSes around here, and give me a opening for our story-thank you for that-maybe our teamwork will help someone 2B, wouldn't that be great? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> In my post, I wanted to be very clear that affairs have NOTHING to do with the OP. Though at the time all WSes do falsely believe that their situation is unique and that they have found their "soulmate"..."Soulmate", right, we know otherwise, eh?

In fact, a more accurate description would be that two very sick souls have collided while trying to escape their reality...a reality that is of their own making...a reality that will remain the same, no matter where they go or who they are with, because until their own issues are resolved, those issues will continue creating the same problem set over and over again...no matter how hard they try to run...it just won't matter...Because there is one universal truth: No one can escape their own soul. Only the healing of that soul will allow the running and turmoil to cease...from that healing comes a reality that no fantasy could ever match...

THAT is the truth of personal recovery for a wayward spouse...


And yes, most definitely I know how blessed I am to have Mr. W...it is NOT lost on me that our recovery and it's swiftness, is largely, if not mostly, because of who he is...his gentle strength has allowed me to become who I NOW am...I look forward to who WE are yet to become...we are still learning and growing...and we are grateful that we have this incredible community to help guide us...


sfjaj...you are making me really proud <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />...keep going...keep listening and learning...ask questions(ANY questions-don't be embarassed-it's all been heard before-use this board to help yourself)...it is NOT shameful to ask for help, it is from humbleness that your honor and integrity will be reborn...it will all fall into place if you stay on this track...good going!


Mrs. Wondering

(peeking head in for a teeny tiny thread jack)

I am inspired by the women in this thread - your integrity and strength show me (and undoubtedly many others) how beautiful, bright and golden that "F" for "former" can be.

Blessings to all of you in your journeys,

G

MrsWondering,
Yes, that is exactly what I was trying to do. I think it's very important for a fresh FWW to see and understand that those that have recovered were feeling and saying some of the exact same things they are. To go back and see your posts, let's us know how similar we all start out on this journey of recovery. It's easy to say the words: "fog", "NC", "exposure", etc...but let them see who you "were" and how you got to where you are now. Let the fresh FWW see that we struggled with the very same issues. You are an inspiration to fresh FWW's around here, and it really wasn't all that long ago that you came on MB and were in withdrawal from the A. I wish I would have "gotten it" as quickly as you did (and I came on here months before you!)! Oh, and you are so right about how all of us FWS's feel the OP was their "soulmate"! It was something I never realized until I came to MB!

I have been blessed as well with a great husband who has stuck by my side through all of this. We are still on our journey, and I do look forward to what WE are becoming!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />Awesome 2B...good stuff...We're on the same page-I love that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

bumped for sadandconfused

bumped