Yes, I do...my first posts were about that...Mr. W seemed "clingy & needy" to me then(Well, duh, I had just put a knife through his heart and made his entire world unstable-how else was he suppose to seem? Confident-yeah right)...I didn't want him to touch me at all...reminded me of OM...that will pass, really, it will...Also, you have spent much time characterizing your husband as the "bad guy" in order for your brain to justify the A...you probably spent time with OM verbally devaluing him together...it takes your brain awhile to catch up to reality...you are reeling right now...baby steps...

Here's what Dr. Harley has said about sex in affairs...it makes so much sense...when you and your husband get to the conversation and affection, you will find that the OM will pale in comparison to your H in the bedroom...it's hard for you to believe now, but it is honestly true...oh so true...there is a deeper bond that you will feel...I hope that your husband is reading here and embracing the principles...you will get there faster if you are both on board...Have either of you read SAA or HN/HN?


Here is the link to the rest of the above article... web page


Mrs. W

Hey MrsWondering...I was just "wondering" if you could find some of your original threads and post them on here so that other FWS's can see where you "were" when you first posted.

I was able to find your first post back in 7/01/05, and I am quite amazed how far you have progressed in about 8 months. You posted that the affair just ended 10 days prior to that post. I had read that you met this OM when you were just 13 and that you felt that this was going to be so difficult to get over because of the "history" behind it.

I'm amazed to look back at my first posts as well and realize how hopeless I seemed! I honestly didn't know how I was going to recover. And you know, I think each of us FWW's are a little different in how fast we do recover. My A's were mostly online and it took me awhile to move past the OM where yours was quite different and you seemed to have recovered very quickly...

So, how did you get from that post in 7/05 to a fully recovered FWW today?

How did you move past this OM that was a "hero figure" to you as you wrote in your post?

What do you think helped MOST in your journey through recovery?

us

ooo i can help you there - let me go dig - let me tell ya - I wanted to slap that lady back then (love ya now dubya)

SHE REALLY felt that calling her OM and him being a jerk was closure and it worked for her so we shouldn't dis it - that it was the best things he ever did to see her OM's true colors and her H didn't mind at all................


We explained to her how it put her back at day 1 and how much it probably DID hurt her husband - even if she thought she did it right (HER WAY)...within a few days she started to feel the concequences to her actions - her husband was hurt, and she went through anger and withdrawel again.........She was determined not everyone had to do it the MB way - that her way would work to....

The woman so full of self rightcheousness and entitlement - she couldn't see how much her husband was hurting...she owned her affair - but was determined her way would work...that her history was differnet, that her situation was different...


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...age=335#2749178

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...age=335#2765038

LOL I realize I sound so eager to show the worst side of you Mrs Dubya - ya know it's not that way - i just LOVE to see how much you have changed and how far you have come!!! I just love ya to pieces today!

Thanks dorry. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I'll take a look at those threads you posted.

To which Mr. Wondering replied...



<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I do so love this man...and he is correct, "us" is a HUGE part of why we have recovered quickly, that is not to imply that ours is a perfect life...We always laugh...and dang, I cannot for the life of me remember who said it...but someone here once said that we reminded them of the couple in the movie Stuart Little...now THAT is HILARIOUS!!!

Well 2BNormal, many of your questions relate to my OM and my relationship to him...2 Things...(1)My initial posts (which I'm glad to see dorry posted links to for you-thank you dorry...yes I know how you feel about me...and you know that I love you and will always be grateful for you)anyway, those posts were, as you pointed out 2B, 10 days out of NC...and as we tell everyone here...FOG BABBLE...BLAH BLAH BLAH...ME ME ME YADA YADA YADA...those mean nothing...I am no different from any other WS in that regard...and(2) Something that I have come to learn in recovery is that OM/OP doesn't mean JACK SQUAT! OP could be anyone, you fill in the blank...The OP is NOT about the WS wanting someone other than the BS...the OP has nothing to do with anything about the BS...the OP IS about the issues of the WS...Who the OP is is of no significance at all, in fact the OP could have been Bozo the Clown...in fact, I recently noticed that when Mr.W and I speak of the A ,I refer to OM as OM...NOT by his name...by the way, that was not even a concious decision...it just happened...I personally think that speaks volumes...So, onto to Recovery...

What about "us" has allowed our seemingly quick recovery...hmmm...

I think that I will tell you what each of us has done positively(there will be things that I know I will forget, I will do my best)...

What Mr. W has done

1. He has NEVER yelled at me...EVER

2. He has NEVER judged me

3. He has NEVER called me names

4. He has ALWAYS allowed me complete freedom to speak...FOG and ALL...no matter how much I know
the things I said hurt him, and they were HORRIBLE...I mean REALLY REALLY DESPICABLE...

5. Reading and posting here...being fully on board with Marriage Builders...

6. A willingness to forgive...and move through it...trying to turn a negative into a positive...

****All of these things gave me a safe environment from which I could freely share...I have told him EVERYTHING-sometimes too many details, I am sure...There are NO secrets...We talk openly today about the A...that seems to be an obstacle for some...we have always been very candid-that is just our style-we know that this doesn't necessarily work for everybody else...but it is who we are...and were...

We got lost along the way in our marriage...I think that we thought that we could just pick up later, and not nurture our relationship since our rapport had always been so great-NOT TRUE, OBVIOUSLY, we let "us" slide in consideration of our DD, business, etc.-That is what caused our marriage to become ripe for an A on both sides...The affair was my poor CHOICE and mine alone...It came out shortly after Dday that, prior to my A, by about a year or so, that Mr. W had propositioned one of our staff, she, luckily, declined(good girl-though is certainly not on our staff any longer...she had gone long before the post dday revelation)...Needless to say, our marriage was going nowhere very quickly...I had given up in trying to get him to come home...I certainly did nothing in the way of making it an inviting place to be(I still struggle there)...and Mr. W had just completely withdrawn...So, as odd as it sounds to some, without the A...we aren't sure there would be an "us" anyway...We certainly wish that it hadn't come to that...but THAT is where we were...We most definitely had long since left God out of our marriage-a surefire method to destroy a marriage, in our opinion. Our marriage is better than it ever was, we hate to say because of the A and choose to say in spite of it...but it was the catalyst that made us both wake up, and realize just how much that we do belong to each other...that each of us is God's perfect choice for the other...

What Mrs. W has done...

1. Fully accept and own that the A was her choice

2. She is completely transparent...an open book, once again

3. A lot of self discovery...looking at the reasons behind the choice...that is an entire post
in and of itself...abbrev. version: stunted development issues-childlike behaviors and
entitlement, getting past living in daydreams...understanding that being happy with me is
my issue, in other words, it doesn't matter where you are or who you are with if you aren't
happy with you-*you* does not change based on others-To WSes or new FWSes struggling with
withdrawal-YOU are the same with your Spouse or the OP...the issues that *YOU* have will follow
*YOU*...***Still working on ME***

4. Remorse...genuine, deep remorse...a FULL realization of the pain that I caused...right now,
I am at a loss for words as to how deeply in my core that I feel this...it would be too much
detail for a post...I go bit by bit...piece by piece...selfish action by selfish action...and put
myself as close to what I can imagine that he felt then...I want to just die when I see
what I did to him...and I know that he lived it...so it was worse...I am tearful as I am typing
this as I am in my apologies to him...I said in another post today that affairs are
SHAMELESS ABUSE...I cannot believe that I did that to any living creature...let alone the one
I love most in the world...it makes me sick...when I think of all that he had to hold together-
COMPLETELY ALONE...I am so ashamed of me and so amazed and awestruck by him...I wish that I
could truly convey my feelings here...Mr. W does know...I'm not sure that I will ever stop
telling him...and *trying* to show him...

5. Reading and posting here...being on board with Marriage Builders...



***I know that there is more...probably really obvious stuff that I am leaving out...these are the things that we've done...I think that each hinges on the other...we have worked in tandem...since withdrawal was over...honestly both of us being here has given us what it takes to do that...we are on the same page...what made us come here together? that's just our personalities...we can't really take a lot of credit for that...we just are who we are...So we are still the same great couple that we were in the beginning of our relationship...now we just have the tools to keep us where we are suppose to be...and NOW we are concious of the feelings and needs of the other...which means we are concious of our errors...which is the first step in overcoming them...Obviously, we still disagree at times...but a recovered marriage is incredible...and while obviously, not perfect, is the real fairytale...

Hope this helps someone...it is our truth...(albeit an abridged version)


Mrs. Wondering

This has been a interesting and helpful thread.

That was a very worthwhile post, Mrs W. and should help
many to keep trecking on to the victory of recovery.
It will help BS to see that foggy WW CAN become FWW.

I was searching on Yahoo to find out what TOW meant.
(Yeah, I know, kinda dumb of me.)

It took me to THE OTHER WOMAN and this Marriage Builders
site. Below was the thread it used as the example.

Oh my goodness, wouldn't it be embarressing for
perfectgirl to have Marriage Builders use her
FOG BABBLE WW thread for the TOW search in Yahoo? EEK

CLICK HERE: Being the other woman....entire thread

MrsWondering,
Thank you for sharing your journey of recovery. I had actually only asked one question pertaining to the OM - about you referring to him as a "hero figure" - I found that interesting that you felt that way, but yet see how you are today!

Our stories are somewhat similar in that the OM was from our teens (mine was just a summer vacation romance) and we both were contacted through Classmates. I think this OM from my past had me on a "pedestal" for years as the "girl of his dreams" and when he contacted me after more than 20 years, I was so naive that I fell into "the trap". I would have considered my marriage and my life good at the time, but I was very naive in thinking that a few emails with this man would lead to where it did. Well, that was the 1st OM, and the 2nd OM seemed a "hero figure" to me because he felt called by God to help me move past the 1st OM. I met him on a Christian forum (when I posted for help for the 1st OM) and he "helped" me for about 6 months before we ourselves fell into an online A. Such a mess I was in when I arrived on MB last March! And you are right, it mattered not who the OM was at all. It could have been anyone...it was who I was at the time. I am so thankful today for the marriage I have and the committed husband that God gave me!

I think what you shared will help many WW's and FWW's to see the light ahead and to continue on their journey of recovery. Looking back at your original posts showed me where you were and you were very much like any other WW that comes on here - myself included!

You are blessed to have your husband post on here with you. I believe I have shared in the past that my husband dislikes forums and doesn't even want to read here.

I really liked these top 3 that you spoke about MrW:

This is so important and it was not something that I had at the beginning of my withdrawal and recovery. Now, yes, but it was a struggle for us there with these 3 you mention. I am sure it made it much easier to freely share with MrW. I can see that as a major "key" to your recovery because I know it was one of our "set backs".

And of course the points you made about what you have done are very "key" as well! Thank you again for sharing and being honest on here (even on your original posts back in July) as it helps those that are on the same journey!

those were interesting to re-read ... and sort of sad too

HEY! we could type actual cuss words back then without the ***** showing up!!!

it was sad for me to read Low Orbit post about the importance of maintaining no-contact with OW who had been a long time family friend ... last year, Low went to coffee with OW when they accidentally met in public ... and Low told his W, she had promised him if he ever did anything like that their long M would end ... and now that boundary is being kept by Mrs Low .... if only Low had listened to himself <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W,

I know you know how blessed you are... and you are, indeed.

I don't think about this stuff often, and my ex-H and I have forged a relationship that is now good - but... in the beginning...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

1. He yelled, screamed, and called me names... mostly a 'wh*re'...

2. He kicked at me as I lay in the fetal position on the floor...

3. He had affairs of his own in retaliation for my affair, even though he'd had several affairs before me...

In short, he helped me along with the deep depression I was already in...

And although I take complete responsibility for my affair (he did NOTHING to deserve it - I should have divorced him instead of having an affair if it was that bad)... his actions afterward were very detrimental to my mental health and our marriage (NOT that my actions weren't - they were).

It was in that state of mind that I continued to make decisions - which were (again) not in the best interest of my family, my (then)H and myself.

Amazing how it goes around... and around.

You are blessed, Mrs. W, and so is your H. I wish you continued blessings and it is a joy to watch your marriage flourish.

God Bless you!

Aint that the truth New Beginning...

Some WS are so blessed to have great BS's...my husband is great and we have come a long way - but it wasn't so....

we started out great and he posted here, but 3 months into recovery...

1. he started to yell, scream and call me names and degrade me - wh*re was used, sl*t was used, opening my legs to other men, half the woman I would ever be, on and on....

2. He distanced himself and i was not allow to even so much as touch him or call him honey or it would be pressure...he moved to the basement

3. He eventually started up on a singles forum, almost had an affair with an office girl, then met an OW on those forums that would never hurt him and be twice the woman I could ever be...and left me for a future with her.

A month later he came back with his tail between his legs...but has never been on board with councellors, MB - he wants to recover his way....so it's been slow - but we are THERE....

but here is PROOF that your marriage can RECOVER even if you think you have the worst husband - that he neglects you , that he wont change, that he isn't like some of the Bs's here....NB has shown it, My marriage shows it...and many others too...

Wow, wow, and a third WOW! I never imagined opening up this thread would teach me such amazing and wonderful things! I wish I had read it all before the OM ever began telling me about his feelings for me...may have prevented much heartache. All I can say right now is thank you for taking pity on a woman, such as myself, with a huge ego and chip on her shoulder by sharing such wisdom. I hate crying when I'm posting...

sfjaj

I just hope you can see no one is being mean to you - it's more we have seen it all before - and for us FWW's we have FELT it all before...and wanted to do it our ways...but doing it your way may never solve the problem at hand...but your way will be easier yes....

For me - i want the marriage I deserve...I want to be happy, to do that I have to do things that are uncomfortable change wise - but the results are amazing and worth it....and all of it takes time

I am THE most IMPATIENT person in the world...the one thing all of this has taught me is patience....something I never thought I would have....

This is a quote from another thread sfjaj that you wrote. It's a good start...but i want to challenge you to look deeper. Un met needs are a symptom, but not so much a cause...the harley's write about it but by no means should you ever stop and let those be the final excuse for your affair.

Why? Because there wll ALWAYS be times in your marriage where your needs may not be met, or you will be unable to meet your husbands - be it work, children, fights. Two people who are willing to but 100% effort into doing MB will succeed - but alot of marriages - not both are willing to do such huge changes.

So...what in you let you have your affair when your needs weren't being met? WHY did you need them to be filled by someone else. WHAT made it SO nessessary to have them filled that you couldn't even THINK about the risks to your life and family?

THAT is where YOUR personal recovery lies and the key to a good happy future.

There are many roads to explore - was it co-dependency? Was it self destructive coping mechanisms? Was it surfacing problems in the past...are their cycles in your life of depression or addiction......explore ALL these aspects and be honest with yourself in each venture... It's gonna be hard, it's gonna hurt.

But you can prevent this from EVER happening again, and you can PREVENT miserableness when your H can't meet your needs by figuring out what is inside YOU.

Oops, sorry about that 2B...I should have said your *post*, not your questions, seemed to put emphasis on OM and the dynamics of that relationship...I know that I misunderstood. In hindsight, I'm sure that you were trying to paint a picture for the fresh FWSes around here, and give me a opening for our story-thank you for that-maybe our teamwork will help someone 2B, wouldn't that be great? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> In my post, I wanted to be very clear that affairs have NOTHING to do with the OP. Though at the time all WSes do falsely believe that their situation is unique and that they have found their "soulmate"..."Soulmate", right, we know otherwise, eh?

In fact, a more accurate description would be that two very sick souls have collided while trying to escape their reality...a reality that is of their own making...a reality that will remain the same, no matter where they go or who they are with, because until their own issues are resolved, those issues will continue creating the same problem set over and over again...no matter how hard they try to run...it just won't matter...Because there is one universal truth: No one can escape their own soul. Only the healing of that soul will allow the running and turmoil to cease...from that healing comes a reality that no fantasy could ever match...

THAT is the truth of personal recovery for a wayward spouse...


And yes, most definitely I know how blessed I am to have Mr. W...it is NOT lost on me that our recovery and it's swiftness, is largely, if not mostly, because of who he is...his gentle strength has allowed me to become who I NOW am...I look forward to who WE are yet to become...we are still learning and growing...and we are grateful that we have this incredible community to help guide us...


sfjaj...you are making me really proud <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />...keep going...keep listening and learning...ask questions(ANY questions-don't be embarassed-it's all been heard before-use this board to help yourself)...it is NOT shameful to ask for help, it is from humbleness that your honor and integrity will be reborn...it will all fall into place if you stay on this track...good going!


Mrs. Wondering

(peeking head in for a teeny tiny thread jack)

I am inspired by the women in this thread - your integrity and strength show me (and undoubtedly many others) how beautiful, bright and golden that "F" for "former" can be.

Blessings to all of you in your journeys,

G

MrsWondering,
Yes, that is exactly what I was trying to do. I think it's very important for a fresh FWW to see and understand that those that have recovered were feeling and saying some of the exact same things they are. To go back and see your posts, let's us know how similar we all start out on this journey of recovery. It's easy to say the words: "fog", "NC", "exposure", etc...but let them see who you "were" and how you got to where you are now. Let the fresh FWW see that we struggled with the very same issues. You are an inspiration to fresh FWW's around here, and it really wasn't all that long ago that you came on MB and were in withdrawal from the A. I wish I would have "gotten it" as quickly as you did (and I came on here months before you!)! Oh, and you are so right about how all of us FWS's feel the OP was their "soulmate"! It was something I never realized until I came to MB!

I have been blessed as well with a great husband who has stuck by my side through all of this. We are still on our journey, and I do look forward to what WE are becoming!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />Awesome 2B...good stuff...We're on the same page-I love that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

bumped for sadandconfused