I know the purpose of these boards to help save marriages.... but there are times when I see what the BS's are going through that I wonder if I should start my own "wake up the WS service." Exposure is one thing.... but I wonder how many WS's would think twice about what they were doing if they knew they were putting more than their "integrity" on the line. I know... we really can't do that... but there is something to be said for putting a little fear in some people. Reminds me of a line from a movie I liked.... "Would you rather be loved, or feared? Feared... it lasts longer." Okay, I am done my rant, I feel better!

This board does more than 'save marriages'. It helps the BS put their mind and heart insync. Having a clear mind, a calm heart and lots of patience empowers the BS and family to move forward. If the WS still exists, then B and D plans are often enacted. If the WS comes back then it is the BS' choice.

What we learn here is how NOT to be the doormat, maybe the slippery floor to the A but NOT the doormat. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

It has also helped this RWS, find herself, and discover the why's of my A and fix my character flaws which led me to have an A.

Initially, it was fear for my life that kept me away from OM after exposure. The fear that kept me from OM has also led me to see my H in a different light. A man capable of such actions, such implications is a man that I'm intended to spend the rest of my life with?

I will not stay faithful out of fear, that is an incredibly barbaric way of thinking. I refuse to be "kept" in fear.

As for your hypothetical fear theory, it has some wrinkles that need ironing.

KY

What were you thinking about in terms of "putting a little fear in some people"?

My FWH loved for me to rant and rave and threaten and throw stuff and try to fight him and to talk about how I would destroy him and the OW......

MY OLD SELF WAS GREAT AT THIS....

He tried to provoke me into this....

He used this to JUSTIFY his A..the ANGRY OUTBURSTS, THE LOVE-BUSTING..YUCK.....

I did gain his RESPECT, though, by evidencing my PERSONAL POWER but it was not through use of FEAR TACTICS...

I often spoke very softly and quietly but it was the MESSAGE in what I was saying....

I was CUNNING. He often did not know what my next step would be.

There's lots more to this...

But, in general, I BECAME IN CONTROL OF AND IN CHARGE OF MYSELF AND STOPPED TRYING TO CONTROL HIM.

In MB language, this was MY PLAN-PLAN A!!!!

mimi... nothing personal, but I am not discussing this with you.

KY & Orc.. it's just a matter of me being tired of seeing too many people on here abused by their WS. Sometimes, I just think the WS's need a swift kick to their 'anatomy."

I hear you, and I understand, I was just letting you know the reality of your suggestion, isn't working well for us, that's all. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

medc:

After 1372 posts and 14 months, What have you learned?

That the only way to fix a WS is to harm them? Noodle proposes that grave physical harm befalls any WS if they do not reform.

If your WS does not reform, then start making some choices. For yourself.

To paraphase Star*Fish: I came to this site to change my husband, I found out I could not, I made him want too!

And yes, I am a FWS, just like Mimi. And if you do not like what we might have to say, then maybe it is you who isn't learning....

And maybe it was just a rant.

And you were perfect and the WS is totally defective. Well, there is a lemon law for WS. Its called divorce. Use it.

And out of the 300 million in this country and 6 billion worldwide, you are upset about WS not being nice? I think about two years for you in any of a number of small foreign countries, and even some places in the US would fix some of that thinking.

The pain inflicted on a BS by a WS is huge. But in the end, the BS has got to start making choices to limit that pain.

And this is not a FOG bound WS speaking here. I handed my BS the perfect opportunity to divorce me. She was going to do it when our son graduated HS, anyway. But, for the grace of God, we figured out what was wrong and went to work on it. And here we are. My BS would have killed the man I was. I do not think she wants to kill me now. I'm at least 99.8% sure of it...

Well, I am still completely confused about what this thread even means. MEDC, when you say you would like to "put a little fear" into the WS, what exactly does that mean?

Do you mean beating the ****** out of them or do you mean something acceptable like standing up to them and getting legal protection? I can't comment until I know exactly what you mean. Can we define some terms here?

For the record LG, Mimi is a FBS...

I will chime in here and say that I too get upset with WSs...I am a FORMER WS...I personally don't get upset about rants about WSs, because that is NOT who I am today...

Mrs. W

MrsW:

My bad, I jumped to quickly <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Sorry Mimi!

For the record, I am not even with my ex anymore. I have moved on quite nicely, thank you. I am just tired of seeing good people get trampled by WS's that only seemed concerned about their own hides (and show no concern for their family). So, I ranted.... anybody here doesn't like that... tough. It was just a rant as I said and not a call to arms.

It's all good LG, I understand, I just knew that you'd want to know! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

I think it's the remorse you are not hearing that is missing from some WS's?
Or the DESIRE to "rectify" the wrongs done.....although we know there is no "fixing" it.
I think I know what you mean,
"There's far more BS on the board willing to take the right steps and their WS are not owning up to their responsibility in making their BS feel safe and loved".

LG, I have noticed the more recovered a FWS is, the angrier they become at the antics of a cruel WS. They are no longer personally invested in a defense of such behavior and, because they themselves are well in recovery, can no longer RELATE to them. Instead, they see right through their antics.

When a FWS DEFENDS bad behavior, or explains it away, I know they are not far into recovery because they feel a KINSHIP to that WS, rather than a recovered person.

A normal, healthy reaction to cruel, unjust behavior is OUTRAGE. That is simply a sign of decency and sound mental health.

And this reply from a FWS... and I question the F part of that with your logic here makes my point. Yes, there is reason to be upset over what WS do to the BS and their family! I have seen more things in my life than most ten people... yet I still have compassion for a BS... something that you obviously lack. So, do me a favor... until you want to drop your WS thinking and minimizing of the damage done to a BS...shut your trap.... the last thing I need is some foggy thinking person mimimizing the harm done to a BS and the innocent children.

Kind of like being an ex-smoker. I see through all the defensive and justification nonsense my still-puffing friends feed me!

Alph.

Alrighty then...... I have been wanting to get in on a thread like this for some time now. So here goes.

I am a huge believer in the MB principles and supporter of this site and all that it entails (Plan A, Plan B, 180's, Boundaries, even Plan D in some cases, bettering one's self, gaining self respect in the middle of a storm and so on).

Although, there are times when you know what......the marriage wasn't bad, the BS wasn't an ogre, nay he/she was a damn good husband and or wife and mother and or father, a great listner, provider, showed affection, admiration, respect, love, honesty and communicated with the WS AND yet they, the WS chose to do what they did anyway. In these cases I do not believe Plan A is the best alternative. I did Plan A my rear off but looking back I think I should have been more forceful and less accomodating to my EX WW. She took my Plan A as a sign of weakness, I think. She is one who understands only a 2x4 across the head. She is that stubborn and prideful. In the cases where a spouse while not perfect would be considered quite a catch by most any other member of the opposite sex is betrayed by someone who isn't happy with who they are, who have become or are narcissitic, selfish, entitled, angry at the world, bitter, resentful, not living in reality the plan A may not be the best approach.

Looking back I would have taken a different approach. I would have likey plan A'd all the while seeing my attorney and filing for D and, removal from the home, custody/support, restricted visitation, etc. I would have made it clear that this is not what I want nor what is good for the children but that it was her choice when to stop the foolish, selfish, entitles and immoral behavior. If it didn't stop that the children and were perfectly capable of living without her and for to go ahead and chase her OM and fantasy. I would give her 30 days to think it over and at the end of the 30 days I would make my move and not look back. I would have confronted OM face to face and when I left he would have been afraid to leave his home much less hook up with my EX WW. I would have personally visited the workplace and confronted from the CEO down how they could allow things like this to happen under their noses and who else is involved in one of these affairs. I would have personally visited the OM's wife and told her everything I knew.

Again, I love MB principles and think its the best thing going to save a marriage caught in the throes of an affair. But, when you are a good spouse and you were doing the things that any normal person of the opposite sex would crave then Plan A falls on deaf ears and I think you begin to look weak if you stay in it too long. I think you can Plan A (including exposure) without looking weak but you have to offset it with boundaries, requirements, timelines and such so that the WS understands that while you have been devestated and hurt you will not be walked upon ever. You don't deserve that.

EXACTLY!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yes, I am a FBS.

I responded because there was an important message that I wanted to share with BSes.

THAT IS, THE MAJOR IMPORTANCE OF GAINING AND ASSERTING YOUR SELF-RESPECT. and not giving into the natural inclination of degrading yourself my LOSING SELF-CONTROL.

Yes, it will happen every now and then..displays of OUTRAGE and INCONSOLABILITY... as Mel states but it is IMPORTANT if not CRUCIAL to get back up on your HIGH HORSE..on the HIGHER PLANE of DECENCY and SELF-CONTROL..which you have and the WS does not have at the time....

So basically, I THINK I'm agreeing with you, MEDC.

I just didn't understand the FEAR aspect in your post.

I will take any opportunity that I can here to help others that were in that AWFUL PLACE that I was a few years ago...

Mimi, I want to make clear that I don't believe that moral outrage is something that should be ACTED UPON with one's WS.

I am only speaking about one's natural, healthy reaction to injustice in GENERAL. There are situations where moral outrage should be acted upon and situations where it shouldn't; I see the actions we take in response as an entirely different subject.

But is is healthy and normal for a decent person to FEEL outrage when they see injustice being done to another person. *THAT* is the high road.

Hopeandpray, a great post.

You could have been writing about my own situation, and my own regrets.

Thanks.

Alph.

Mel:

I gotcha.

I agree with you 100% about MORAL OUTRAGE.

In my real life, I often speak out LOUDLY for defenseless children and older adults who can't speak for themselves....

Just did in fact....

While I agree with this statement, it is ALSO the high road to pull your own head out of your own a$$ and realize that you are the one doing a grave injustice to others.

As a FBS and FWS, my greatest accomplishment was not forgiving my (now ex)H of his affairs (which I have)... it was realizing the incredible harm I pepetuated as a WS... and making amends to the best of my ability.

MEDC, you are speaking of WS's, I believe, NOT **Former** WS's. Most True "F's" feel just as strongly as you do... and from my experience on these boards, are roughest on those we see fooling themselves (they usually aren't fooling others)... BECAUSE we see our former selves.

Amen to every word she said!

Well said as always NBII...I concur...

Mrs. W

I don't believe a WS is capable of remorse.

A WS is not capable of remorse, only a FWW. I want to say how refreshing it is to see those FWW's on here that have truly gotten it. As someone said above the one's that really get it are harder on themselves than anyone else can be. They are a blessing to this board.

I am speaking of a truly former WS.... not a WS.

MEDC:

That's what I thought. I was going to inform the others but didn't want to prejudge you. I'm glad you were honest.

Mimi... knowing and accepting that we don't speak the same language....

Okay, now I'm unclear MEDC...What is it that you are saying about a truly FWS???

Where do I go to buy a clue?

Mrs. W

Amen!

Mrs. W... there are quite a few people out there that put the F in front of WS... and frankly, they really haven't earned it yet. So, what I mean by former is someone that shows remorse, caring and compassion and a willingness to be a better human being than the person that dropped their undies with someone else. Just because someone stops screwing around does not a "former" make in my opinion... that is just a lull in the cheating. When they stop and learn from their mistakes, they have earned the "former" title. Some never do.

And this quote from the thread really sums it up.

"I want to say how refreshing it is to see those FWW's on here that have truly gotten it. They are a blessing to this board."

I second the words of hopeandpray. He's got it right!

I was a good wife. Loving, kind, supportive and also considered by SANE members of the opposite sex to be a darned awesome catch...but wha wahhh?darth goes and does it because he can't handle intimacy...or real deep committment...or real life. He only understood his hormonal drives...and if he doesn't feel "up", then he thinks something is wrong. He's a slave to the damned hormones and still is.

Nothing worked on him until I went into plan B...then we had a false recovery and he bounced from that by finally dropping off into the deep end...when I filed and left and never looked back.

He only understood discomfort. He understands HIS needs...and when HIS needs aren't being met..or should I say worshipped, he notices stuff...but only then after the transformation into the WS he is/was/will probably remain.

Some people...the MARRIAGES CLASSIFIED AS GOOD OR EVEN PRETTY GOOD...might not stand imho a great chance if a cake eatin' entitlement freak of a WS is who they are up against.

YOu see...the WS ALREADY HAS IT GOOD...just NOT EXCITING OR ENTICING ENOUGH. They're doing one thing..

LOOKING TO PUSH THE ENVELOPE IN THEIR SEEMINGLY MUNDANE FAMILY LIFE.

That is what it is with my xh. And what I think happened to hopeandpray's XWW and to Alphin's, and to many more here.


Their life ISN'T BAD...it's just not hormonally driven excitement anymore! That is the key!

So how do you fix that? Huh? Do you think plan A will work for WS like that?

I vote a solemn NO...

on behalf of my family...my son and I.

Imho, it is time MB and the Harleys address this very issue. Not all of us BS are couch sittin bonbon eaters with a sixty inch waistline who yell and scream and could care less about our significant other.

For my xh, it was just another slice of incredibly delicious cake for him to devour...and it slowly drove me to my knees during that time...because I was already a good wife...

I believe in MB...FOR MOST PEOPLE...and I believe in most of it...the EN's being met...learning what is important to your spouse, and how to in general get them back after an affair has happened...and for me now? How to affair proof A FUTURE RELATIONSHIP and marriage hopefully one day.

And many times I was criticized and chastised by some here because I seemed too harsh.` Why? Because I tried to get some BS to understand WHY PLAN A WON'T WORK ON THEIR WS!

And sadly, there are some that NO plan will they ever respond to. They trip the light fantastic and keep on trippin' into never never land, not to return ever again.

Hopeandpray,

Geez that was an excellent post. Kudo's for that.

IMVHO I agree with MEDC. I have my own struggles of course but recently I have seen two very good men destroyed by their "F" WW's. Who were actually WW's again.

Both men were in plan A until they found out about the new betrayal.

Those are the WS's I agree with MEDC about.

Like hope I like this site. I think the disclaimer should be noted that this plan can really backfire if your FWS or WS does not buy into the principals. LOL

I think just because a WS has stopped the A it doesn't make them a Former anything.

To me it may mean they are in remission. Former indicates the Affair thinking is gone.

Just my 2 cents.

Hopeandpray again excellent post. I could have written that as well.

Last thing sometimes the BS didn't have much to do with the deterioration of the M. They were an active party in it but it wasn't them that caused the unhappiness. Some people in this world are just unhappy and nothing anyone can do will make them that way. So they have an A.

Unfortunately

Good BH's and BW's are nearly always unable to execute such a plan that at the end seems so obvious to you guys. Good BS's are often the most caught off-guard of the bunch.

It's one of the primary conflicts of this board and why it works so well. Those of us that recovered our marriages are ever hopeful of Plan A and Plan B, whereas those that experienced WS's that never removed their head from their butts eschew a more tough and limited (time wise) approach to Plan A and Plan B. The balance is effective as we assist those processing and proceeding down the foreworn path.

I am surprised some of you posted that you "regret it". I surmise that the MB plans are what got you through and to the point of clarity you are at today, that the hard and direct approach MAY have left you with other more onerous regrets that you maybe didn't do everything you could to save the marriage. In my opinion, the HARSHER methods you propose would also not have worked in your particular situations. They would only have saved you the grief of enduring MONTHS of the bullcrap. But, without the months, you likely would never have known for certain whether YOU could have done more. Besides, as I said before, you likely were NOT in the state of mind to execute such harsh plan anyway so to regret it is just wasted energy. Monday morning quarterbacking of your life is impossible and unfair to yourself. Give yourself a break.

You did what you did. Make peace with that. You acted according to your abilities and inclinations at the time and didn't merely react to your situation. You all are to be commended. You may have lost your marriages, but you won so much more, IMO, through marriage builders rather than in spite of it.

Mr. Wondering

Agreed MEDC...I thought we were on the same page...Just wanted to be sure...

Mrs. W

Wow, we have touched some nerves here haven't we... In all seriousness some of these relationships were not bad relationships and spouses were not bad spouses and the Wayward's affair had NOTHING to do with the BS not meeting needs, or whatever. This is something inside of them at the core of their being. Some are addicted to drugs, alcohol, sex, porno, etc Some are mentally ill on some scale and some, a small percentage thankfully are evil, yes evil.

One thing I recently did that felt really good was to confront my EX WW when she started spewing some fog about me not taking out the garbage or something equally mundane as that for justiying her affair. I told her this....

R, this is the umpteenth time I have heard this from you and you know what, I no longer accept blame for little to any of the downfall of our M and your A. I will no longer look inside me to see what I did wrong or what need I didn't meet. R, you know when you lay down at night and you quit spewing fog that I was a very good husband, mate, friend and a wonderful father. You know this and I will no longer stand by and listen to crap coming from your mouth so that you can sleep at night for destroying our M, betraying me, our children and your own dignity and self respect. This is on you. This is your burden to carry. Remember this when you have to drop our son off for another two weeks before seeing him. Remember this when our little girl (my step daughter) cries and wants to stay another night at my home, when she doesn't get to see her brother as often as she would like, when she doesn't get to teach him things and protect him. Remember this when she is old enough to hold you accountable and does. Remember this when the old lunatic serial cheating, lying, pathetic and broke excuse for a human being starts his 16th, 20th or whatever number it really is affair and you get to feel the sting of betrayal. Remember this when your son grows up and doesn't really know you. Remember this when you sit in a church pew and pray. OR, don't. Hide your head in the sand and continue to get a bigger shovel in order to dig deeper and deeper. Doesn't matter to me anymore BUT don't use me as your scapegoat because I WILL NOT ACCEPT IT ANY LONGER. SLEEP WELL TONIGHT. GOODBYE.

Mr. W

Well said Love...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

I agree w/ Mr. W.

As I read these boards, I see that the times when plans A & B fail to bring the WS back to the marriage, it does do something for the BS.

It gives them a plan to focus on and time to let go of their WS.


~ Marsh

I agree MRS W, MR. W's post is excellent.

For the record,I am not sorry that I plan A'd my EX WW. I grew and learned things about myself that I would not have otherwise learned. I know that I gave it my all in order to save our M and someday when the fog lifts she will know this and be very sad that she did not take the lifeline offered her. I do know that with some WS's a modified plan A, and swift kick in the aZZ may be in order. Mr. W is correct in that this is hard to pull off due to your current emotional state of mind upon learning of the affair and betrayal.

This is a good thread.

A roller coaster ride is easier to survive than jumping off a cliff.

You might have hated the ride and REGRET ever strapping yourself into the MB seat..but...at least you survived and hopefully you'll thrive evereafter.

W'ism

I agree with this, meaning that when the BS has been meeting the WS needs and the WS became wayward anyway, then I believe a shortened Plan A is in order, followed by a swift and very dark plan B...In the case where the BS has been neglecting the WS-(and I do realize that the WS was doing the same) then a longer Plan A is in order...

Just My .02...

Mrs. W

Brilliant.

What started this thread for me was yet another thread that has a person suffering at the hands of a WS that is now using the law to her advantage and having her H kicked out of his house so that she can continue her A without interuption. This repeats itself far too often. A boot in her [censored] would be more effective than a plan A IMO. Now, I don't mean that leterally... but what should happen is that she should fear that if she continues on this course that she NEVER sees her children without supervision and that she loses every penny to go be with her boy toy. Consequences of the actions chosen. The BS should not have to tolerate the cruelty of an A AND have to deal with losing his children, home and dignity also. Those are the types of things that make people hang themselves by an electrical cord in their own basement. That type of EVIL... and yes, I too mean absolute evil... needs to be responded to in a fashion that says... I love you... but NEVER try and -uck me over! JMVHO.

I've been following this thread all day! Wow, I can feel the energy from here!

I guess it goes without saying that I wish I never knew what a WAYWARD signified, or meant, I wish I didn't have to hunt this site down on the internet, I wish many things.

SINCE, I do know what a wayward is and how that affects me; and BTW it SUX!!!, at least I did find this site in time to help myself.

In my case, I think it would require entirely too much self-care on my WH's part to even begin a course toward dropping the 'W'.

BULL...I ASSUMED THE SAME..and it was HARD AS H..for my H to end his A but he did....after I got the courage to do PLAN B.

This is EXACTLY what I get concerned about..discouraging BSes from the use of the MB Program.

I believe without a doubt that the HARLEYS advocate basically strict adherence to their program.

In SURVIVING AN AFFAIR, there is no mention of a modified PLAN A or modified PLAN B. It clearly states that if PLAN A is not effective, then PLAN B is recommended.

For some WSes, it takes a long time for them to get it. It is difficult to break the addiction to the OP.

I am so thankful that at a time that I was discouraged and ready to give up on my marriage I came to this site and was INSTRUCTED specifically on PLAN A and PLAN B as recommended by the Harleys. When I veered off course and tried to do it my way, I was swiftly guided back....

I am thankful that I did not give up after more than one false recovery. I BELIEVED in this APPROACH and attempted to follow it to a T and it has led to the wonderful life that I lead now.

If this is possible for someone else, I do not want that person to be discouraged.

Of course it is not a foolproof approach...but the Harleys clearly say that there is a greater likelihood of MARITAL RECOVERY if their program is strictly followed.

Oh, I know, I'm just feeling on the low end of the spectrum right now. Currently thinking waaaay too much about WH...


Personally, outside of MB principles, I FEEL for the BS, and do wish that a swift kick to the WS's head to realign their chakra's would help, but I know that any WS's reception is low when they are wayward, so any malice against them just feeds their wayward flame!!

Mimi..sighing in relief..my girl is back to thinking straight.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

mimi,

always got my back, thanks <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I believe that there is a huge difference in the WS, the FWS and the RWS.

The ideal spouse who cheated is the RWS, Recovered wayward spouse, this is whom you are all wanting. This is the spouse who feels remorse, although I believe a FWS does as well, but a RWS, will fix him/her self. They will correct their behavior, they will seek help from others, (professionals) they will make amends with anybody hurt in their situtaion and they will forever discontinue anything and everything having to do with the A. They will forever beware of any situation that might lead to an A, and avoid that situation. They will not put themselves in that type of position again.

I think we sometimes set the FWS up for failure, in my opinion they are still a work in progress. A FWS still has so much work to do, if they do not do the work if they do not fix themselves they will soon be a WS again, with the same OP or a new and different OP. It's a cycle and if they do not break it, it will happen again.

If your WS turned FWS doesn't change immensly then you are in trouble. You should be seeing them grow in front of your eyes. The RWS, is somebody whom you can respect and love and trust fully again.

Your M is not safe with a FWS, you need a RWS. A RWS, is a better, stronger version of their old self.

There is a difference, a huge difference.

KY

K:

I agree with you 110% on this.

My H is a RWS...as you describe...

But for him..for us...it took lots of WORK, TIME AND PATIENCE....

When we first reconciled, he was a FWS..as you say....

He continued to steadily move forward but the changes were slow in coming....6 months of withdrawal...EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS to not see or talk to the OW....

I'm encouraging those early in recovery not to expect their spouse to be a RWS early on in the process...

The WS returns beaten and broken, in need of healing, before there is MAJOR CHANGE..they have been living in an ALIEN WORLD and have to become accustomed to REALITY once again...

It's easy for me to see looking back on this..but early on I didn't fully comprehend what was going on...we were making in from day to day..the WALKING WOUNDED..with HOLES in our HEARTS....

I'm so thankful that I didn't give up and hung in there to have this opportunity to live my life with a wonderful RWS....

I have another rant to get off my chest here... sort of related to the topic at hand.
I also HATE.... and I mean HATE....people that enable or associate with those that have A's. I see this as being a battle... you have to pick a side and stand for what is right.
I dated a girl that had two friends that were single homewreckers. The friends did not care if a man was ammried or single... they would still "date" him. I told the girl I was dating that I could not understand how she kept these weeds in her garden of friends. Her response was something along the lines of "we're not close... I only get together with them in a larger group." I say these girls should have attached to them the stigma of what they are until they change their ways... AND make amends for what they have done. I have no tolerance for the ..."it's not my life" attitude... so, now her number has been removed from my cell phone. Bye, bye.
Okay, I am done that rant now!

LOL....

MEDC:

A MEETING OF THE MINDS!!!

I DEFINITELY AGREE WITH YOU 110% ON THIS ISSUE!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

500% here.

I had a friend who was fooling around behind her husband's back with a married co-worker.

For awhile, I would try to tell her how unhealthy it was for her, how she was inviting an intruder in on her childrens lives and how she was intruding on his children's lives....she never listened.

We moved away, and dday occurred. She'd contact me to try to talk about the adultry and I directed her here and told her to fix her marriage. We've moved back, and I have yet to see her. I have NO urge to associate in anyway with her while she is in active adultry mode ****** bent on destroying two families.

Nope. Not at all. I have a line drawn in the sand...it's non-negotiable now.

Also have a cousin who is messing around before his divorce is final. You may be certain he's getting an earful....and his new gf better not meet me....I've heard she's nice....humph. Nice girls do not date married men.

- Kimmy

I believe that anyone... and I mean anyone (it doesn't matter their role in our lives) needs to be removed if they supported the A, helped hide it, encouraged it, enabled it, etc... that these people either seek the forgiveness of the BS or they are forever removed from our lives. There should be no part of the cancer from the A left. I consider the removal of the OP as the surgery part of this process... and the chemo and radiation are the removal of any of the other potentially infected areas. Every person involved with a married couple needs to support that couple or get lost. I really don't care if it is a mother/father/friend.... they need to go if they are part of the problem. Forgiving your spouse has an upside in that the M can survive... the M does not need these other people in order to survive. JMHO.

"Nice girls do not date married men."

I think we ought to make this into bumper stickers!!
I might accidentally put one on WH's car, and a matching one on OW's ....
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />