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Hopeandpray, a great post.
You could have been writing about my own situation, and my own regrets.
Thanks.
Alph.
Me, BS 37
Him, WXH (Noddy) 40
DD13, DD6
Married 14th August 1993
D/Day 2nd April 05
Noddy left us 3rd April 05, lives with OW (Omelette) 28
Divorce final 6th July '06.
Time wounds all heels... - Groucho Marx
...except when it doesn't. - Graycloud
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Mel:
I gotcha.
I agree with you 100% about MORAL OUTRAGE.
In my real life, I often speak out LOUDLY for defenseless children and older adults who can't speak for themselves....
Just did in fact....
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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But is is healthy and normal for a decent person to FEEL outrage when they see injustice being done to another person. *THAT* is the high road. While I agree with this statement, it is ALSO the high road to pull your own head out of your own a$$ and realize that you are the one doing a grave injustice to others. As a FBS and FWS, my greatest accomplishment was not forgiving my (now ex)H of his affairs (which I have)... it was realizing the incredible harm I pepetuated as a WS... and making amends to the best of my ability. MEDC, you are speaking of WS's, I believe, NOT **Former** WS's. Most True "F's" feel just as strongly as you do... and from my experience on these boards, are roughest on those we see fooling themselves (they usually aren't fooling others)... BECAUSE we see our former selves.
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Amen to every word she said!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Well said as always NBII...I concur...
Mrs. W
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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I think it's the remorse you are not hearing that is missing from some WS's? I don't believe a WS is capable of remorse.
The queen, for her part, is the unifying force of the community; if she is removed from the hive, the workers very quickly sense her absence. After a few hours, or even less, they show unmistakable signs of queenlessness. - Man and Insects
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A WS is not capable of remorse, only a FWW. I want to say how refreshing it is to see those FWW's on here that have truly gotten it. As someone said above the one's that really get it are harder on themselves than anyone else can be. They are a blessing to this board.
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I am speaking of a truly former WS.... not a WS.
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I am speaking of a truly former WS.... not a WS. MEDC: That's what I thought. I was going to inform the others but didn't want to prejudge you. I'm glad you were honest. Mimi... knowing and accepting that we don't speak the same language....
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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I am speaking of a truly former WS.... not a WS. Okay, now I'm unclear MEDC...What is it that you are saying about a truly FWS??? Where do I go to buy a clue? Mrs. W
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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A WS is not capable of remorse, only a FWW. I want to say how refreshing it is to see those FWW's on here that have truly gotten it. They are a blessing to this board. Amen!
Married 10 years, Legally Seperated Aug 2,2006 1 year of Plan A followed by 1 year of Plan B... ...now stepping towards recovery????? BH 37(me), WW 35, DB 7 & DD 5 My Story My struggle with an EA
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Mrs. W... there are quite a few people out there that put the F in front of WS... and frankly, they really haven't earned it yet. So, what I mean by former is someone that shows remorse, caring and compassion and a willingness to be a better human being than the person that dropped their undies with someone else. Just because someone stops screwing around does not a "former" make in my opinion... that is just a lull in the cheating. When they stop and learn from their mistakes, they have earned the "former" title. Some never do.
And this quote from the thread really sums it up.
"I want to say how refreshing it is to see those FWW's on here that have truly gotten it. They are a blessing to this board."
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I second the words of hopeandpray. He's got it right!
I was a good wife. Loving, kind, supportive and also considered by SANE members of the opposite sex to be a darned awesome catch...but wha wahhh?darth goes and does it because he can't handle intimacy...or real deep committment...or real life. He only understood his hormonal drives...and if he doesn't feel "up", then he thinks something is wrong. He's a slave to the damned hormones and still is.
Nothing worked on him until I went into plan B...then we had a false recovery and he bounced from that by finally dropping off into the deep end...when I filed and left and never looked back.
He only understood discomfort. He understands HIS needs...and when HIS needs aren't being met..or should I say worshipped, he notices stuff...but only then after the transformation into the WS he is/was/will probably remain.
Some people...the MARRIAGES CLASSIFIED AS GOOD OR EVEN PRETTY GOOD...might not stand imho a great chance if a cake eatin' entitlement freak of a WS is who they are up against.
YOu see...the WS ALREADY HAS IT GOOD...just NOT EXCITING OR ENTICING ENOUGH. They're doing one thing..
LOOKING TO PUSH THE ENVELOPE IN THEIR SEEMINGLY MUNDANE FAMILY LIFE.
That is what it is with my xh. And what I think happened to hopeandpray's XWW and to Alphin's, and to many more here.
Their life ISN'T BAD...it's just not hormonally driven excitement anymore! That is the key!
So how do you fix that? Huh? Do you think plan A will work for WS like that?
I vote a solemn NO...
on behalf of my family...my son and I.
Imho, it is time MB and the Harleys address this very issue. Not all of us BS are couch sittin bonbon eaters with a sixty inch waistline who yell and scream and could care less about our significant other.
For my xh, it was just another slice of incredibly delicious cake for him to devour...and it slowly drove me to my knees during that time...because I was already a good wife...
I believe in MB...FOR MOST PEOPLE...and I believe in most of it...the EN's being met...learning what is important to your spouse, and how to in general get them back after an affair has happened...and for me now? How to affair proof A FUTURE RELATIONSHIP and marriage hopefully one day.
And many times I was criticized and chastised by some here because I seemed too harsh.` Why? Because I tried to get some BS to understand WHY PLAN A WON'T WORK ON THEIR WS!
And sadly, there are some that NO plan will they ever respond to. They trip the light fantastic and keep on trippin' into never never land, not to return ever again.
me:37 BS; s:7;
xh:38; OW:26;eloped w/OW 1 wk after D: 12/29/03. OC born 3/17/04. Happy! Blessed to be the mother of a wonderful son..great profession..Life's good!
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Hopeandpray,
Geez that was an excellent post. Kudo's for that.
IMVHO I agree with MEDC. I have my own struggles of course but recently I have seen two very good men destroyed by their "F" WW's. Who were actually WW's again.
Both men were in plan A until they found out about the new betrayal.
Those are the WS's I agree with MEDC about.
Like hope I like this site. I think the disclaimer should be noted that this plan can really backfire if your FWS or WS does not buy into the principals. LOL
I think just because a WS has stopped the A it doesn't make them a Former anything.
To me it may mean they are in remission. Former indicates the Affair thinking is gone.
Just my 2 cents.
Hopeandpray again excellent post. I could have written that as well.
Last thing sometimes the BS didn't have much to do with the deterioration of the M. They were an active party in it but it wasn't them that caused the unhappiness. Some people in this world are just unhappy and nothing anyone can do will make them that way. So they have an A.
BS 38 FWW 35 D Day 10/03 Recovery started 11/06 3 boys 12, 8 and a new baby
When life hands you lemons make lemonade then try to find the person life hands vodka and have a party.
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Unfortunately
Good BH's and BW's are nearly always unable to execute such a plan that at the end seems so obvious to you guys. Good BS's are often the most caught off-guard of the bunch.
It's one of the primary conflicts of this board and why it works so well. Those of us that recovered our marriages are ever hopeful of Plan A and Plan B, whereas those that experienced WS's that never removed their head from their butts eschew a more tough and limited (time wise) approach to Plan A and Plan B. The balance is effective as we assist those processing and proceeding down the foreworn path.
I am surprised some of you posted that you "regret it". I surmise that the MB plans are what got you through and to the point of clarity you are at today, that the hard and direct approach MAY have left you with other more onerous regrets that you maybe didn't do everything you could to save the marriage. In my opinion, the HARSHER methods you propose would also not have worked in your particular situations. They would only have saved you the grief of enduring MONTHS of the bullcrap. But, without the months, you likely would never have known for certain whether YOU could have done more. Besides, as I said before, you likely were NOT in the state of mind to execute such harsh plan anyway so to regret it is just wasted energy. Monday morning quarterbacking of your life is impossible and unfair to yourself. Give yourself a break.
You did what you did. Make peace with that. You acted according to your abilities and inclinations at the time and didn't merely react to your situation. You all are to be commended. You may have lost your marriages, but you won so much more, IMO, through marriage builders rather than in spite of it.
Mr. Wondering
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering) DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Mrs. W... there are quite a few people out there that put the F in front of WS... and frankly, they really haven't earned it yet. So, what I mean by former is someone that shows remorse, caring and compassion and a willingness to be a better human being than the person that dropped their undies with someone else. Just because someone stops screwing around does not a "former" make in my opinion... that is just a lull in the cheating. When they stop and learn from their mistakes, they have earned the "former" title. Some never do.
And this quote from the thread really sums it up.
"I want to say how refreshing it is to see those FWW's on here that have truly gotten it. They are a blessing to this board." Agreed MEDC...I thought we were on the same page...Just wanted to be sure... Mrs. W
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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Wow, we have touched some nerves here haven't we... In all seriousness some of these relationships were not bad relationships and spouses were not bad spouses and the Wayward's affair had NOTHING to do with the BS not meeting needs, or whatever. This is something inside of them at the core of their being. Some are addicted to drugs, alcohol, sex, porno, etc Some are mentally ill on some scale and some, a small percentage thankfully are evil, yes evil.
One thing I recently did that felt really good was to confront my EX WW when she started spewing some fog about me not taking out the garbage or something equally mundane as that for justiying her affair. I told her this....
R, this is the umpteenth time I have heard this from you and you know what, I no longer accept blame for little to any of the downfall of our M and your A. I will no longer look inside me to see what I did wrong or what need I didn't meet. R, you know when you lay down at night and you quit spewing fog that I was a very good husband, mate, friend and a wonderful father. You know this and I will no longer stand by and listen to crap coming from your mouth so that you can sleep at night for destroying our M, betraying me, our children and your own dignity and self respect. This is on you. This is your burden to carry. Remember this when you have to drop our son off for another two weeks before seeing him. Remember this when our little girl (my step daughter) cries and wants to stay another night at my home, when she doesn't get to see her brother as often as she would like, when she doesn't get to teach him things and protect him. Remember this when she is old enough to hold you accountable and does. Remember this when the old lunatic serial cheating, lying, pathetic and broke excuse for a human being starts his 16th, 20th or whatever number it really is affair and you get to feel the sting of betrayal. Remember this when your son grows up and doesn't really know you. Remember this when you sit in a church pew and pray. OR, don't. Hide your head in the sand and continue to get a bigger shovel in order to dig deeper and deeper. Doesn't matter to me anymore BUT don't use me as your scapegoat because I WILL NOT ACCEPT IT ANY LONGER. SLEEP WELL TONIGHT. GOODBYE.
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Unfortunately
Good BH's and BW's are nearly always unable to execute such a plan that at the end seems so obvious to you guys. Good BS's are often the most caught off-guard of the bunch.
It's one of the primary conflicts of this board and why it works so well. Those of us that recovered our marriages are ever hopeful of Plan A and Plan B, whereas those that experienced WS's that never removed their head from their butts eschew a more tough and limited (time wise) approach to Plan A and Plan B. The balance is effective as we assist those processing and proceeding down the foreworn path.
I am surprised some of you posted that you "regret it". I surmise that the MB plans are what got you through and to the point of clarity you are at today, that the hard and direct approach MAY have left you with other more onerous regrets that you maybe didn't do everything you could to save the marriage. In my opinion, the HARSHER methods you propose would also not have worked in your particular situations. They would only have saved you the grief of enduring MONTHS of the bullcrap. But, without the months, you likely would never have known for certain whether YOU could have done more. Besides, as I said before, you likely were NOT in the state of mind to execute such harsh plan anyway so to regret it is just wasted energy. Monday morning quarterbacking of your life is impossible and unfair to yourself. Give yourself a break.
You did what you did. Make peace with that. You acted according to your abilities and inclinations at the time and didn't merely react to your situation. You all are to be commended. You may have lost your marriages, but you won so much more, IMO, through marriage builders rather than in spite of it.
Mr. Wondering Mr. W Well said Love...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Mrs. W
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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I agree w/ Mr. W.
As I read these boards, I see that the times when plans A & B fail to bring the WS back to the marriage, it does do something for the BS.
It gives them a plan to focus on and time to let go of their WS.
~ Marsh
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I agree MRS W, MR. W's post is excellent.
For the record,I am not sorry that I plan A'd my EX WW. I grew and learned things about myself that I would not have otherwise learned. I know that I gave it my all in order to save our M and someday when the fog lifts she will know this and be very sad that she did not take the lifeline offered her. I do know that with some WS's a modified plan A, and swift kick in the aZZ may be in order. Mr. W is correct in that this is hard to pull off due to your current emotional state of mind upon learning of the affair and betrayal.
This is a good thread.
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