Sorry to nearly turn Sadandpissed's thread into a forum for my problem with exposure to OW H.

I'm reposting my last reply (I hope) in this new thread.

***

Thanks M2L and JGK (and others who may be posting as I write),

Please help me with a strategy but I have no funds to hire a PI to find him. I only know his last name (very common) and region (across the country).

I see how this could help me rebuild my trust regarding this OW but it seems so daunting.

What, when, where, how do I do this? (Also love more insights as to 'why?'...or even 'why not?')

Ace

Do you know his phone #? His company? His town? You can try looking up his name on www.peoplefinder.com as a starting place. If you have a phone #, you could do a reverse lookup on www.anywho.com

ok, I have read some more of your posts and think I had some gender confusion here, lol. We are looking for an OW and her H, right?

After 3rd D day last summer when WH wrote NC letter from both of us, I asked her to at least confirm she received it even if she did not reply.

She wrote a long apology (I know, probably all lies) and vowed to never contact or respond to WH even if he gets weak and contacts her.

A few weeks later, I even opened up one of his many accounts and sent her a fake email from WH and she replied immediately "No, never contact me again." (When I got prior permission from WH to do this, he said "do whatever will help you heal".)

Had I discovered MB after the first D day, I could have done the right thing then. But our MC said not to waste time on OW or her H, so we did not expose. We did not find SAA until a few months later (Oct). And I did not check out this web site until Christmas break. Glad I did.

How do I find out his first name?

Ace

How about making this a shout to the Spy Techies out there?

One of them might have a good idea how to attack this.

Give them a little more info to go on.

Ace, if you have her phone #, you have all you need. All you have to do is disguise your phone # and call and ask for Mr. XYZ. Then tell him the truth. You can also do a reverse lookup with the phone # at www.anywho.com and might be able to get his name and address.

I only have an email address.

Thanks for all the input but I'm heading to church now....back in a few.

Ace

If you look for her name on any of the people finders, you are likely to get his name. That is what I would try.

Ace:

I'll be Blunt here:

Why do you want to contact OW H now?

Do you believe your H is in NC? Then work on your M.

Some here will tell you you need to contact the OW H so that he knows how awful a person he is married to. Revenge factor in that, for most, but if your H has been in NC, then no reason to.

Why do I say that? Because my BS can contact my OW H at any time. She didn't. And if she did now, (15 months later with NC in place) I most likely would get a phone call from OW. They are getting divorced anyway. So, if OW calls me, just for support, where do we go from there?

Why open that can of worms now?

Exposure is used to break up an ongoing affair. And can be a very nice embarrassment tool after the affair is over to punish the wayward spouse, if used indiscriminately.

Be sure of the reasons behind contacting OW H. Revenge is fun, but may backfire. Ensuring NC? Well that may not require contacting OW. Finding out so that you know who he is so that you can contact him if your H contacts OW, thats a good reason, your ace in the hole.

And say you do talk to OW H. And you have a very good conversation with him. And the OW CALLS YOU later, to tell YOU all the things that your WH may or may not have done with her. How do you guage if she is telling you lies or the truth?

AND you are back to square one. Not square 15, Square one.

This site is about Marriage Building, not revenge.

LG, you are dead wrong. The status of the affair is irrelevant when it comes to exposure to the BS, they should always be notified regardless. That has nothing to do with "revenge," or "punishment," but with DECENCY. DECENT people alert others when they are being harmed behind their backs.

Ace should have never helped her H hide his dirty secret. She has done so at her own expense. That is not "marriage building," that is marriage EROSION, as we can see with FOUR D-days. This affair most likely would have ended long ago if she had notified the other BS the first time.

She needs to expose to the OWH because he has a right to know. This is information about his life that he has a right and need to KNOW that is being WRONGFULLY withheld from him. He can't very well protect himself from his W and her boyfriend if he doesn't know.

Exposing to the OP's spouse VERY MUCH *IS* Marriage Building, let me assure you. Because honesty is the solution to infidelity, not more lies.

Doesn't the OW's H have a right to know WHO he is married to? What if the OW's H does not CHOOSE to be married to an adulteress? Doesn't he have that RIGHT? Shouldn't he have a RIGHT to make his own choice about this? He is not her PET on a leash.

To NOT tell him the truth is cruel and manipulative and DANGEROUS. He needs to PROTECT himself from an adulterous wife and he can't very well do that if he doesn't know the risk. Denying him the truth is keeping him in a marriage based on a LIE.

LG... you give some good advice on these boards.... but there are times like the above quote where it is obvious that as a FWS you really have no idea of the damage caused to a BS. To think that there is no reason that a person that has been betrayed needs to know their spouse was screwing around in pathetic. Frankly, as a FWS.... you either need to figure out this stuff or realize that your opinion is lacking any intergrity and shut up about it as there are people here that will be influenced by your words. Dr. Harley is very clear that the spouse always has a right to know. Decency would dictate that you apologize to this man... even if it is through your wife.

If you and your wife have not informed the OWH that you were screwing around with her... IMHO... you are part of the problem that runs rampant in society today. A lack of integrity and morals is the only thing that would stop you from informing and apologizing to the OWH for what YOU have done.

Mel:

We are going to have a disagreement here. And I respect your positions. So do not bombard me with rebuttals all weekend.

My point is that you have to be sure of your reasons why you are contacting the OP's S. Considering the circumstances here, I do not recommend it. 5-6 months ago, Yes, expose. Now, No. For the reasons I gave. That is my position.

I hope that Ace makes a choice based upon the relevent factors in her sitch. And you can be very persuasive in your arguments. But Ace was looking for opinions. So, just like you, I gave one.

LG, I think Ace came here for opinions about Marriage Builders principles. And you have to be sure of your own reasons, which I think have a lot to do with your own situation. I think that ACE should understand that you are a wayward spouse YOURSELF who has not informed his own victim of his affair with her wife, and seemingly feels no remorse about that.

Just be assured that it is not "marriage building," nor is it recommended by Marriage Builders to NOT expose to the victim spouse. It a not smart idea that can be supported rationally. There is just no legitimate reason to help someone hide their filthy affair from their victim. None at all.

LG, by coincidence, on Friday, someone on the Who's Online board was reading my thread from when my H exposed to the OM's W. I read it again. My H exposed nearly a year after the A was over.

The reasons:

He knew if the OM's W never knew there was always going to be a chance of renewed contact between OM and me. At the time he exposed, my H knew I was back in withdrawal and he wanted to finish things once and for all and start our real recovery.

He wanted her to know what she was up against and wanted to do the decent thing.

I knew he was going to expose, I didn't know when. I WANTED him to expose to help me protect my boundaries even further. Revenge played no part. It was a very, very difficult thing for him to do, drop a bombshell into another person's life.

LG, rereading your post, I see something else.

You still have the fact that the OW's H doesn't know hanging over you. I detect a slight panic there that it would not be the OW who contacted you but the OW's H.

Also, when my H contacted the OM's W, neither she nor he called my H or me again.

Mel's Darn right! WHy propegate the lie! You can have TWO SPIES FOR THE PRICE OF ONE...the OMH deserves to know the truth. He can't fight against the enemy (the affair) unless he has the right weapons. Right now he is where you used to be..in the dark and in pain.

Help him please?

It is your duty. Do the right thing. The moral choice. Ignore what a WS would do. Do what will save two families here. And that is deliver the cold hard truth but give hope and steer this man to the right place to help him stand a fighting chance to save his family.

I am sick of seeing people run from the truth b/c it is not easy...or fun...or could make somebody form an opinion of you either good or bad.

I HAD TO LEAVE FOR CHURCH BEFORE I COULD READ ALL OF THESE HELPFUL POINTS. I SAW A NEED FOR A NEW THREAD, MADE IT, LEFT AND NOW I'M BACK. HOPE I CAN CUT AND PASTE THESE SEGMENTS TO MAKE SURE I HAVE THE CORRECT PERSPECTIVE.

M2L WONDERED WHY EXPOSURE TO THE OWH WOULD BE AT THE EXPENSE OF MY FAMILY. I MEANT THAT THE TIME IT TAKES TO HUNT HIM DOWN, MAKE THE CALLS, SEND THE EVIDENCE, AND WORRY ABOUT HIM GETTING ON A PLANE TO BEAT THE #*@# OUT OF MY HUSBAND, ETC. SEEMED TO BE DAUNTING...AND IF HE DID, THAT WOULD AFFECT MY FAMILY.

I THINK THIS FOLLOWING in lowercase IS FROM MELODYLAND, BUT I FORGOT TO DRAG THAT PART. I WILL CHANGE THE GENDER CONFUSION (DUE TO BEING ON SADandPISSED'S THREAD) BUT IF I MISS ONE, SORRY.....LOL

Ace, I am not sure where you got the idea that exposure to the OWH should be delayed but none of the people you named would advocate not telling hIM.

I FOUND THE INFO ON LINKS ATTACHED TO BOB P AND WAT'S POSTS ON 'TELLING THE OP'. NOT GOING TO WASTE TIME IDENTIFYING WHICH ONES. WE OFTEN FIND THINGS TO SUPPORT OUR OWN OPINIONS, WHETHER OR NOT THEY WERE INTENDED THAT WAY.

Not telling hIM is a huge mistake that only harms your position. I assure you they would tell you to expose. NOW. You increase the risk of a resumption by NOT telling hIM [I see you have had 4 D-days which does not surprise me]

FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH, IT'S ONLY 3! (THE 4TH D-DAY IS A FIGMENT OF MY FEAR AND WHAT DROVE ME TO REGISTER HER AT MB)

There is absolutely no reason, no benefit to NOT exposing to hIM. But there is great benefit for all concerned if you do tell hIM.

I WANTED TO TELL HER HUSBAND WHEN WE FIRST WENT TO MC WHO SAID NO CONTACT WITH EITHER OF THEM BY EITHER OF US. I PROTESTED VEHEMENTLY BUT OUR MARRIAGE COUNSELOR SAID THAT I SHOULD TRUST GOD AND LET HIM TAKE CARE OF THEM..... (BUT YOU CAN PAY ME $150). SORRY FOR THE SAD SARCASM.

This is one of the main reasons that you have experienced MULTIPLE D-days. I don't understand why you promised your H to help hIM hide hIS dirty secret when you must know that secrecy only enables the AFFAIR. Why help hIM ruin your marriage??

I WAS TRYING TO FOLLOW WHAT OUR MC SAID AND THE BOOK HE SUGGESTED WAS "NOT JUST FRIENDS", WHICH HAS NO SPECIFIC CHAPTER ON EXPOSURE TO THE OPS.

HAD I KNOWN ABOUT MB AND PLAN A AND B AND LOVE BANKS ETC. I WOULD HAVE EXPOSED TO AVOID WHAT I SAW AS A POTENTIAL FOR RECONNECTION. AS MENTIONED IN MY ORIGINAL POST, THE FIRST NC VIOLATION HAPPENED LESS THAN 24 HOURS AFTER OUR FIRST MC SESSION.

The OWH should be told by YOU and should be told NOW. Exposure should never be used a THREAT. It should just be done without ANY WARNING. Threatening to expose is a HUGE MISTAKE that only enables the affairees to spin the story in advance and facilitate their secrecy.

"THREATENING" WORKED FOR ME, AT LEAST UNTIL I COULD FIND MB AND DISCOVER OTHER FACTORS INVOLVED! BUT IT'S BEEN AWHILE SO I'M SURE SHE THINKS I WILL BE QUIET....ESPECIALLY IF SHE HAS NOT VIOLATED THE LAST NC.

This is not something that should be left up to the OW, because She is not likely to bust hERself and even if She does, She will tell a SPUN version so He never gets the truth. An OP almost NEVER busts themselves, though.

WHEN MY WH CALLED OW TO TELL HER THEY WERE BUSTED THE FIRST TIME...(SEE MY FIRST THREAD)... SHE WANTED TO CALL ME AND APOLOGIZE PERSONALLY TO ME....BUT WITHIN A WEEK THEY WERE RECONNECTED. (BOTH OF THEM JUSTIFIED IT BY SAYING THAT SINCE THEY WERE NOT DOING THE INTIMATE THING, IT WOULD BE OK.) THIS PATTERN IS WHY I AM HAVING SUCH A HARD TIME REBUILDING MY TRUST. EVEN THOUGH I DID NOT KNOW ABOUT LOVE BANKS, I BEGAN BEING THE WIFE OF MY HUSBAND'S DREAMS AND HE REPEATED TOLD ME THE NICE WONDERFUL THINGS HE IS TELLING ME NOW. BUT NEITHER OF US KNEW ABOUT WITHDRAWAL.....BEFORE THE LAST NC, HE JUST FELT COMPELLED TO BE LIKE A 'DOG WHO RETURNS TO HIS OWN VOMIT'.....THINK I USED A PHRASE OR TWO LIKE THAT...YEAH...I WAS SORTA ANGRY I GUESS.

As far as the OW knowing the "best time" to break this news, I would suggest She is the LEAST qualified to adjudge what is in HER H's best interests. SHe is operating AGAINST hIS best interest, as you know. The rapist isn't qualified to determine what is in the best interest of his victim.

I MUST GET OVER MY GUILT ASSOCIATED WITH MY 'EXPOSURE IS MY ACE IN THE HOLE' THEORY. AS I LOOK AT THAT STATEMENT, I REALIZE THAT THE BENEFITS OF A SWIFT SUDDEN EXPOSURE WILL BE WASTED IF I DWELL ON FEELING GUILTY FOR VIOLATING MY OWN BLACKMAIL THREAT.

The OWH needs to know so He can have the same opportunity to save hIS marriage as you. This is information about hIS life that he has RIGHT to know. He is being actively DECEIVED and harmed behind hIS back. As long as he does not know, he cannot protect hIMself from hIS W and your H.


MY MOTIVATION THEN WAS TO STOP THE POTENTIAL FOR THEM TO CONTINUE THE AFFAIR.

MY MOTIVATION NOW IS TO 1) HELP BUILD MY TRUST IN MY 'TRYING-SO-HARD-TO-BE-A-FORMER-WAYWARD-HUSBAND' AND 2) TO HELP HER AND HER HUSBAND IMPROVE THEIR MARRIAGE USING RH. I DO NOT FEEL ANY DESIRE FOR REVENGE, I HOPE. IF ANYONE SEE'S ANY RRF (REVENGE RED FLAGS) PLEASE EXPOSE THEM TO ME ASAP.


And the biggest reason you should expose to hIM now is because it lessens the risk of resumption of the affair. With 2 people watching from both ends, neither party is as free to pursue the other. And if the OW is working on hER marriage, She is less likely to pursue your HUSBAND.

THE LIGHTBULB WENT OFF WHEN I REALIZED THAT MY TRUST COULD BEGIN GROWING IN MY HUSBAND WHEN THE THREAT OF THE OW'S RENEWED INVOLVEMENT IS REDUCED OR REMOVED. I NOW SEE HOW SWIFT SECRET EXPOSURE WILL ACCOMPLISH THAT, GUILT TRIP OR NOT.

Believe me, the OWH will likely be very grateful that you cared enough to warn hIM. But to not do it, is to help your HUSBAND hide hIS crime at the expense of hIS victim. That would make you an enabler, Ace.

AFTER I FOUND THIS BOARD AND READ ALL THE POSTS JUST AFTER CHRISTMAS, IT SEEMED THAT IT WAS TOO LATE, LIKE LOUSY GOLFER SUGGESTED....SO I DID NOT EVEN CONSIDER IT. I'M SO GLAD Y'ALL SAW MY THOUGHTS TO SandP'd. PLEASE MAKE SURE HE GETS HIS ANSWERS AS I FEEL BAD THAT I MAY HAVE DIVERTED HIS THREAD PREMATURELY.

I APPRECIATE EVERYONE'S HELP! NOW IF I CAN JUST FIND THAT OWH. AMAZING THAT AS I WAS SHARING THESE POSTS ON OUR WAY TO CHURCH, MY HUSBAND SAID HE THOUGHT HE REMEMBERED HER HUSBAND'S FIRST NAME AND THAT THEY HAVE THE SAME LAST NAME, SO AT LEAST I HAVE SOMETHING TO GO ON.

AS CHRISNER SAID......EXPOSURE FORTHCOMING, FILM AT 11.

--------------------
BS - 48 [me]
WS - 46
D-Day 10-2000
Happily recovered!

It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of fools.
Ecclesiastes 7:5

WAS THIS FROM YOU MEL? THANKS!

ACE...soon to lose my entire bucket!

oOOPS! Hey Mel....Sorry for calling you Melodyland...I think I got confused by the crossed gender references, too.

Ace

You rock, girlfriend! Be strong and sally forth! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

What lessons have been learned about how to expose to a perfect stranger via email, phone, or snail mail 7 months after the first D day after 2 more reconnections spanning 6 more weeks?

I'm looking for the method that is 'least-apt-to-backfire'.

I will dig out my SAA for ideas but thought I'd see what the masses have experienced.

Especially you, Lousy Golfer.....I truly feel this is the missing link to help rebuild my trust and subsequently restore our marriage. Thank you for your perspective....my head tells me your way is the best because seems like it is the easiest. But my heart tells me to 'seek and destroy' ...seek that illusive OW H and destroy all possibilities of the A resurrecting itself ever.

LG, if they were not getting a divorce in your sitch, how would you suggest exposure be done if it were 'better late than never'?

It may take me a while for my detectives to find OWH but I'm trying to formulate my plan in advance.

(Hey Chrisner...do you feel a screenplay developing?)

I know this is serious stuff, but humor will help decrease my stress level surrounding my difficult task ahead. I want the pay value so badly, I know I can do this. But we only get one chance so I want it to be right.

Thanks,
Ace

Ace, the best way is just to pick up the phone and call him. Disguise your # using *67 so you don't roll over to voice mail and alert the OW. The OW could see it then and pre-empt you. If she answers ask for Mr. XYZ. If she asks who is calling tell her you are from JC Penny catalog center calling about an order he placed or something. You get the picture. And then just keep calling back until you can reach him.

Bump for Inner Strength (take whatever applies to your sitch)

Great thread.

I have been struggling with the same issue.

Went to the OMW once before but was intercepter by OM and Wife saying that it was not necessary to get her involved and that the affair was over.

foolishly, I believed them and began working on the marriage from my end. Being the best father and man I could be and hoping my WW would notice and come around.

About two months into this, I got wind that they were still communicating and even caught them having dinner together. Excuses were made, saying it was a chance meet and they just tried to be civil.

The nail in the coffin was a log from the phone company showing that she called the OM EVERY DAY since the day of the affair. They NEVER stopped communicating.

Now I am heading to meet the OMW this afternoon with that log in hand as evidence.

I know this is going to blow up in my face in the short term. My WW is going to want to kill me but after all that I read on this board, it is a necessary step to put a spoke in the wheels of the affair. All my efforts are for naught if they don't stop seeing each other.

Thanks again for this thread and the strength it is giving me.

Good Luck,

All he!! will break loose but you will feel better because she has a right to know.

Still

OPH,

There are so many more threads that helped me but I don't know how to link yet and I can't even remember their names. I'll try to bump them for you if I can find them.

So glad this thread helped you.

Ace

thanks for your efforts Ace.

I did the deed and yes it did blow up.

The OMW confronted the OM and sure enough he came right back at me.

Threatening to get physical and even called some goons to beat me up on sight.

The good Lord watched over me as both his mother and brother showed up on the scene. They heard him having a heated discussion with the OMW, figured he was heading out to do something rash and followed him.

They managed to talk him out of any immediate action and I am still alive to post on this board. By the grace of God!

As his own brother put it....the bomb has been dropped, now to sit back and see what happens.

Hopefully the worst is over and things only get better from here on out!

Ace - I believe in letting the other Faithful Spouse know about their Unfaithful Spouse's involvement with the WS.

Having said that, your situation is now "different."

Exposure's primary function is to destablize, and hopefully result in ending, the active affair. Yes, the OP's spouse should know what their spouse has been "up to," but your situation has now "changed" the "usual exposure scenario."

Now you HAVE waited, for whatever reason. Now you ARE in recovery efforts with your husband. Now the "RULES" have changed because you are in recovery.

This now becomes an issue of POJA, Policy of Joint Agreement.

Therefore, the simplest "way" to get the name, etc., of the OP and her husband is to ask your husband for that information.

You will be asked "why you need that information." You need to tell him why and what you are planning to do. You must "enlist" his agreement, his "enthusiastic" agreement, or the "deed" does not get done.

The reason I say that is that your focus needs to be on YOUR marriage and recovering your marriage. Actions you take can no longer be "unilateral," no matter how you might seek to rationalize or justify those actions. Now you are a "team" and you make "team decisions" on major issues. You function as "one," as in "one flesh."

Jesus, for example, did not tell the woman caught in adultery to go and "tell everyone" about her "OM's" adultery, he told her to "go and leave your life of sin."

IF there is ANY further contact from the OW, THEN you expose, with the full knowledge of your husband that that is what the "consequence" will be of a willful violation of "No Contact." This is, at that point, NOT open to discussion, it will happen.

Does it perhaps seem "unfair" that the OP's spouse is left "uninformed?" Yes. It may even BE "unfair." But your concern is NOT for their marriage, it is for YOUR marriage. Did Nathan go and inform everyone about David's sin with Bathsheba? Did Nathan go and inform Bathsheba's friends and family? No, he confronted the "chief sinner," David. David's response was immediate...he repented to God of HIS sin against God and GOD, not Nathan, imposed the consequences, as well as the forgiveness of the sin.

If your husband contacts the OW, it is prima facia proof that his "repentance" is not "full and complete" to GOD first, as well as to you second. IF that scenario were to happen, then as part of your POJA discussion, he needs to know that you need the WHO, WHAT, WHERE information for two main reasons:

1. HE has that information and you, as his "one flesh" spouse, have a right to the same information that he has (you ask the questions regarding the affair and he should give you truthful answers to the best of his ability as part of the "consequences" of his sin and his attempt to repent of that sin and rebuild trust in you),

2. IF contact is broken by either of them, then the consequence of that choice is that the "affair" is not ended in totality and the OP's spouse WILL be informed.

YOU hold the information. What happens with that information will be dependent upon THEIR choices with respect to your reasonable and prudent BOUNDARY of No Contact, not ever, for the rest of their natural lives.

This is not a "threat" or a "sword of Damoclese" held as a "hedge" whereby you have not really forgiven your husband. This is a "Cause and Effect" issue that is TOTALLY dependent upon your husband and the OW. IF they choose to violate your trust and your boundaries, then the "effect" is that her husband "gets informed" by the "light of day that shines on willful sin."

God bless.

opheliagrimm - seriously consider taking out a Restraining Order against this person. DO NOT rely on his family to be with him 24/7 or that he will keep his anger under control.

This response that you posted should be enough to warn you that "talking" is not enough.

God bless.

Thank you for your thoughtful post, ForeverHers.

Please see post 3184568 submitted on 2/8/07. My husband did agree wholeheartedly with exposure and knew OWH's first and last name so thanks to the web, I called him at work to inform him and confirm that he could personally receive a 'highly confidential' package at work (and it would not be opened by a secretary). We sent the evidence package along with my H's letter of apology on Feb. 6. He did not reply, but the return receipt was signed by a secretary who may have roundfiled the entire package for all I know.

But, since you're kindly brought this up now that I bumped this thread for Opheliagrimm, I have a simmering question that I think I know the answer to, but I need help just letting it go.

Although my H told me about all their sexual exchanges via phone and email, he deleted the sexual emails before he showed me the accounts. He told me what was on them and when we contemplated exposure, I asked him what he thought about hiring our tech to extract them from our hard-drive or even getting any legal means to have them obtained off the server. My H agreed so willingly that I decided that I did not need to see them afterall (because I was learning about triggers and wanted to quit creating them with my inquisitive mind). I thought (possibly wrongly) that she would tell him about her sexual involvement so they could create triggers of their own, not by me.

When we exposed, I only mentioned what I had proof of (which did not include their sexual encounters since all I had was my H's words). I now regret NOT including the phone sex part, but I know it's too late (a month later) to say anything to OWH further.

But I want to let him know so badly that the only thing that is stopping me from firing off another message to OWH via phone/email is our MCs words that "OW is a 'nothing' and 'let God take care of her'". "If she lies and denies she was having an affair 'because they did not meet or have physical sex,' God will deal with her appropriately in His time." (The enclosed cards and letters in her handwriting spoke of their undying love for each other and how their souls would be joined together in another place and time when they outlived or divorced their spouses.)

So (a month later) I'm still open to thoughts on how to help me JUST LET THIS GO (my need to inform OWH that his wife repeatedly committed fone fornication with my H) .

Thanks,
Ace

P.S. I cannot post from work but I will read all replies and possibly respond tonight.

LG = Lousy Advice (at least on this subject)

FH:
the "willful sinning" (you refer too) has Already occurred.
As a result,
the Victim of said actions deserves to Know.

That's not rationalizing ......but instead is simply a step in making amends for a grave wrong doing.

(And yes, this is also partially What "our" WS did to them). Cause like it or not our WS's were the OP to the OPS!

Indeed,
ALL BS deserve to KNOW the truth about their lives, relationships and marriages.
So As there ARE 4 persons in the adultery rectangle .......each has the Right to be aware (and then make informed choices) about what has occurred.

******************
To All:

This game is not all about me, me and Mine .....and what do "I" get out of it .........OR how does it benefit ME!
Very narrow and small thinking --
as it may very well be "you" that's on the outside the next time .....and please NO One tell me there won't be a next time ......as most (if not all) believed there would NOT be a First Time.

Lastly,
don't know how anyone gets to the point of supporting the WS mentality of
1). Life is a selfish endevour and its all about me, me ,me.
(If I gain nothing or little .....then No way am I doing it). That's the attitude that Fuels affairs
2).That somehow MORE lying (even if by omission) , secrets or other deception is a positive in dealing with affairs.
Indeed,
As has been stated its the Light of day that cleanses and then offers the chance to heal.

As the lord proclaims;
"you shall not join with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness" ....& "you shall not pervert the justice due to your needy brother in his dispute" -----
--which All includes not protecting/supporting their Lies and secrets, when You know its Not True.....yet they are Putting forth that it is.

Sadly,
by holding onto said information (as a hammer or an Ax),
your turning it into the very thing some have accused BS that expose to be .....using it as a weapon (holding it over their head as a threat).

No,
choose instead to simply let the information go forth and do its Good work.
Its like airing out your house ......it lets all the bad out, and then you don't have to worry about it anymore.

By the way,
if these WS's are so Back into the marriage and accept what an awful expeience having the A was .......then what is the issue (that keeps being brought up) with the possibility of the OP contacting them?

Actually,
NONE of us have ANY control when/if the OP will contact their former WS (at any time they choose).
So it might actually be better if the WS was kind of knowing the chances were more likely (like immediately After Exposure).......thereby letting themselves be better prepared : both mentally and especially emotionally!

Sorry,
but your NEVER gonna convince me that I'd somehow be better off NOT Knowing <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />.....{Shrugs}
Hence the other BS isn't either. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Besides how arrougant for YOU to decide what is or what isn't relevant to another person ...especially when it was your S that did the offense.
Man,
that sure sounds like more of that WS mentality of "I'll decide for YOU what you need to Know".

How'd that work for you BS's when it happened to You?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Just Checking. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

top rope - per Ace's post above, the husband of the OW already knows. Ace sent him the "package." What he does with that package is his concern.

In Recovery, the tenet of POJA applies, or it doesn't apply, you can choose.

This is not about what "seems only fair," this about rebuilding THEIR marriage....period. I understand that many things about recovery from adultery do not "seem fair," but the need to be done anyway. In Ace's case, she is attempting to handle two "paths" simulataneously. One, reestablishing a marriage that is surrendered to God; and two, a marriage that needs forgiveness and trust to be reestablished to move toward "recovered." The second "path" is the path that is using MB principles, or it isn't using MB principles. It really is that simple. It's not "simple" in the "doing," but it is necessary nonetheless.




top rope, what you are perceiving as a "weapon" is not that at all. The facts are just that, "facts." What we are dealing with her are "extraordinary precautions" to protect THEIR marriage. At some point in time, it is also very likely that not only will the "information, the facts," no long be needed, but they will likely decide to "toss it away" because it is no longer needed, the marriage has recovered.

Have you ever "negotiated" with a child who has been doing something wrong? Is it wrong to say that if you "do that again, this will be the 'just consequence' of your choice to disobey?" There is "another weapon," if that is how you want to classify "consequences," it is called DIVORCE. That is also a "weapon," by your definition in this discussion, that a BS has and can "keep" hanging over the head of the FWS. Remember, the WS already "chose" divorce when the BS had no "say" in the matter. Now that the BS has chosen recovery rather than divorce, they still have that choice, but it is dependent upon the actions of the FWS and will be "employed" or not employed as a "consequence" of what the FWS does or does not do in recovering their marriage. Is it "fair" for the BS to "retain" that "weapon?" Arguably it is not, but it IS a consequence of the sin. Being forgiven of the sin does NOT erase or eradicate all consequences of the sin. "The wages of sin is death," but those wages do not have to be applied if the person is truly repentant and accepting of the ONE way to achieve full forgiveness. The "consequence" changes to one of reconcilation and a recovered relationship, first with God, and then with others.




Top Rope, you are projecting yourself onto others...an often dangerous place to be.

There is no "arrogance" here. Ace informed the OP's spouse. It is up to the OP's spouse to contact Ace if HE needs or wants "additional information." The "arrogance," if any, in the situation as you propose it is to decide WHAT the OP's spouse needs "because that is what *I* would want. Think about it.


God bless.

Ace, in this situation I think that your MC is correct. What "additional information" the OP's husband may think he needs is NOT the same as what you "think" he needs. If he needs or wants "more," he knows how to contact you.

With respect to that, "Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord." "It IS a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God."

How does that relate to the quoted portion of your post (above)?

"and how their souls would be joined together in another place and time when they outlived or divorced their spouses.)"

uh huh.... and that "other place" is called The Lake of Fire. Unrepentant adulterers, along with all others who have not surrendered to Jesus Christ and accepted him as their Lord and Savior, WILL be, by their own volition, in that "other place." Is that "enough" of a consequence?

Is that where you WANT her to spend eternity?

Pray for her that she may yet come to repentance, for her sake and for the sake of HER marriage. Not easy to do with all the normal human emotions a BS has to deal with, but it is "God's way."

God bless.

It's about your own recovery. I was stupid enough not to tell "her" husband" and now almost 2 yrs later, I wonder...
is it over? does he still talk to her?...when will she be back?..... It's a sad place to be in. We had 2 D-Days. he didn't want me to tell her husband cause he didn't want to face what I gave her. I simply told her what a skanky lowlife she was for trying to impune upon another's mariage, and I did throw in a few tidbits he told me that were known only between the 2 of them and she was aghast that "HE" would share "their" intimacies with ME the lowly wife. And he did tell me some doozies. Now, I know my H wanted the easy way out and even after almost 2 yrs, I still have the urge to let him know, via registered letter to be accepted by only him what she has done. I just want her to pucker up so bad that you couldn't drive a 10 penny nail up her a** with a sledge hammer, when she sees a letter from me to him roll in. That's all. Do ya'll still think it's too late for me to do that? 22D

22D,

I was 6 months from apparent NC letter, or so I thought. Actually, I was fearful that the A was not over, only smoldering under the surface for both my H and the OW. I exposed to help end any possibility of the A re-igniting. (2 months before that my H had handwritten a second NC letter which we mailed with a copy of HNHN.)

I am no expert but I'll bump a thread with my thoughts on why (after 6 months of apparent NC), I exposed via return receipt express mail to his work address after calling him, telling him about his wife's A with my H, and confirming that he could directly receive and open a confidential package. That was the only question/statement that raised a comment other than "OK, Uh Huh" from him. He said "I'd really appreciate that" (that I'd mark it highly confidential so his secretary would not open it.)

From my understanding, which could be wrong, revenge is not a good reason to expose. In hindsight, I now see why. The Thread I'll bump starts with "THANK YOU ALL for help with delayed exposure to OWH"....or something like that.

Glad you're still around, 22D. I think your initial MB post was on one of my threads about 'just getting over it'. Exposing to OPS could help you if your H agrees. If not, sad to say, you may have been deceived all this time. My H did not want to expose after D day #1 either....hence 3 more came along. Do you have your timeline listed somewhere? I believe it was an EA, correct? Mine was, too.

Hope this and the other thread helps but I'm sure some pros will come along with additional advice.

Ace

Expose if that is what will help you get closure. If your Xws doesn't agree, then he is still a WS at heart. That's a tell tale sign.

L.

Good Point, Orchid,

Thanks for your insight. I think that's the main motivation that I exposed, too. And it is helping.

22D, you'll need to seek out answers and honestly evaluate what your true motivation is. Please read the thread I bumped for you (your name is in the title). Another thread that might have helpful food for thought is the one in recovery where I described what steps I took (including calling Dr. Harley on the radio show) to be honest with my reasons for exposing. Delayed exposure to OW's husband was a turning point for us and under the right circumstances it could be for you.

ForeverHer's post above describes other reasons Dr. Harley also gave us why NOT to expose. If I had been recovered after 2 years with no possible reason to believe the A might continue, I might have still exposed, but possibly for a different reason. (I think the other spouse has a right to know, even if he does not do anything with the info.)

But Orchid's suggestion to discuss this first with your H is paramount. My H said he would even fly across the country to meet the OWH to apologize in person (and risk his entire being) if it would help me heal. He is an exception to most FWH's on these boards although he is not ready to post yet......too much internal guilt and he's working 3 jobs now because his dishonesty got him fired 2 years ago.

My Mr. Romance thread in the Romantic Experiences forum shows how far we have come and also chapter 6 which I will write soon will show how much further we have to go. Please let me know what you think if/when you read it.

We're here for you 22D so keep us 'posted' on your thoughts. But you you feel you want to start your own thread asking "How and why should I expose to OPS after 2 years?" that might be a better idea.

Ace

22D,

Do a search for these 3 threads, too.

"Mr and Mrs. Lousy Golfer" "Don't Get Stuck" (may have been same thread) and "Integrity of the BS" all during the months of late January and February '07.

Those are the threads that helped me realize we needed to proceed with a delayed exposure to OPS, in addition to calling the MB radio show and having Dr. Harley say it was optional after so long if the A was truly over.

Is your H's A truly over? His attitude towards discussing delayed exposure might expose something else. Be honest, don't LB, and be careful. Let us know not only what he says, but HOW he says it. We're here for you.....and him, too!

Ace