Ok, here we go.

My W told me about six weeks ago(early dec.) that she was done. She was not happy any more,and did not want to discuss it. Her decision was final. I convinced her to at least get through the holidays for the sake of the kids (son 14 d 11). We went to a friends wedding the next week, I thought maybe that would bring her around, but she was cold and distant, at the end of the night she again said she was done. During this time I did what I now know to be the wrong thing - promissing change, pleading etc..
By some twist of fate, I had left work early to see a friend who i had confided in, driving on a road that I rarely use, I found her with the OM in a parking lot. They denied that anything was going on between them but admitted that he had taken her to see a lawyer about a divorce. She admitted the next day to the affair. The other man was also married and also divorcing his wife at same time. He is the father of on of my daughters friends. Two weeks later and she is more distant than ever, wont talk wont let me try to meet her EN. She has been very obvious about her affair since it was revealed, even trying to take the kids along for diner. She does not want to leave the home, but insists that I do. I don't think we are making any progress now, every day see asks me when I am going to leave, She has scheduled an overseas trip with the OM next week. I feel like we're at a dead end.

You have come to a good place to get help, but I'm sorry you need to be here.

You should not leave the home under any circumstances. Who have you exposed the affair to? Her parents, family friends, work/boss, your parents?

Have you spoken with the other man's wife? She may still have time to save her marriage as well. Make sure she does in fact, know about the affair now! Infidels are notorious liars. Clear?

Do not allow the children to visit with other man and your wife.

Learn all you can about Plan A. Do not engage in arguments. Protect your finances right now.

Others will arrive shortly and have more help for you.

Yes I have tried to speak with the other mans wife, she is emotionally wreaked as you can imagine and did not want to talk, after all she assosiates me with the women who is destroying her marriage. Family members know whats going on and a few select friends, but she is not trying to hide it anymore, she took him to a party with some of our friends last weekend. And yes I know the lying continues.

1. Seek legal counsel today and make it clear to your wife that you will and ARE seeking primary custody as you will NOT have your children dragged threw this crap.....with two adults playing mom and daddy are replacable and allll you kids are now going to get along to all in the name of mommy and new daddy being happy...


do this
seek primary custody
and do it TODAY

DO not leave the home if any one leaves it is wife WITHOUT the children

what has SHE told the children....

make sure you spending gobs and gobs of time with them...

please tell me she is NOT taking the kids with her...

does her family know of her actions...

expose to those that will speak reality...

what do you believe are the reasons for the affair...(meaning her fog filled rationale for her actions....)

how does she know OM.....

ARK

She told the children that mommy and daddy just grew apart and dont love each other any more. I did explain to the children that I was happy with our marriage and still loved her. They Know now what is going on as I said she is not hiding it anymore, I have discussed what is going on so they did not have to guess and be lied to.
Yes! she wants to take the kids. I will fight for them.

Her family knows but she will not listen to anyone, The story she tells is that she was unhappy and has been thinking about this for a long time -- It would have happened even without the other man in the picture.
Every one can see that she is so involved with him that she is blind to all the consequences.

Get with a lawyer. She cannot take the children overseas. Separate your finances and protect yourself from her blowing your money. Cut off all access to anything that enables her A. If the cell phone is in your name, cut it off. If she communicates with him via email, cut it off or password protect your computer. Expose to everyone that would put pressure on the A. Make it hard for her to continue her double life. If she refuses, I would ask her to move out. What state do you live in? There are some legal recourses in some states if infidelity is involved.

time to MANUP reachingup
and ROAR>....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

nothing more attractive to a women then MANNING UP for the truth and good

what is her reality a OM willing to bring destruction and pain...

willing to dangle sweet treats and feel good empty times...f

forcing children to choose a vacation with mommy and her new man....

your children are being taught when adults displease us we replace them...

their fears will become that if THEY displease their mommy she will and can replace them...

heck if they can replace the grownups...who have the power and control...then crap they can replace the children even easier.....

seek a lawyer TODAY
tell your wife there is NO way in HE(( your children are going to play instant new family vacation.....

prepare to go to war...

all in the name of love and truth...

read BOBPURES story...

his journey was of yours..
a wife dead set out to bring chaos to her family...

all in the name of self rightous love.....

his battle was hard..
fought with strength love and humility....

but they are recovered....

NO MATTER where this ends up..
this chaos..

MAN UP for your children..
and all will be well for you and them in the end...

no rolling over and going belly up...

ARK

Jim, the state is PA

Thanks to all for the support, This is just what i need to bolster what I already know I must do. I'm I nuts to think that there is anyway to forgive something like this??

reachingout,

The only way to stop this train wreck is to get behind her and push her even faster. If she says she wants to go to OM, offer to give her a ride. She says she wants a divorce...let's go to the lawyer NOW.

She says that she never loved you.....look her in the eye and tell her she is probably correct.

She wants to end the family...offer to have her things moved to her OM's place ASAP.

Get to your bank and close your old accounts and open new ones in your name only. Rip up ALL joint credit cards.Tell her you want to set up her child support payments to start IMMEDIATELY.Of all the steps that you can take the financial one is the most critical.

Then disappear.

No talk, no chit chat. Only absolutely essential communication.

And smile,smile,smile.

How can i get to BOBPUREs story?

I've been to the lawyer says not to do anything for now stay in the house dont close accounts -- if she takes the cash theres enough equity in the house to cover. But that does not help the emotional situation at the house, at this point I am looking for another place to live, pick up the kids and go... Is that unfair to the kids? But on the other hand I believe thats just what she would like to have happen so that she can have the OM move in, and the kids will still want to come back to visit their "home". I look like the bad guy for moving out .. No divorce papers yet although she has admitted to seeing a lawyer about it. The OM is still in his house with his STBX and kids.
Should have played the powerball -- $254,000,000

YOU and CHILDREN stay
SHE G0ES...

You don't go anywhere...

what she thinks she wants and what she is even engaging in are so far from reality...

bobpures story has been bumped...

tons and tons and tons of good stuff....

ARK

I would move most of the money out of her hands. If it is the two of you and two kids, move 3/4 of the money to an account that only you have access to. That was she has access to her "share" but you protect against her spending too much.

Listen to the great advice you have been given.

Get legal advice and make it clear to her that you are willing to work on building a new, better M but not with three people involved. You need to help the OMW understand that the two of you are in this whether you want to be or not and enlist her help. Show her to this site.

Tell WW that she can leave but not with the children and that you have no intention of going anywhere. She is the one that is wrong, not you and she can leave and play fantasy island but don't involve your children.

Document everything....especially this overseas trip with OM. This is huge. She is blatanly taking an overseas trip with OM and in effect leaving or abandoning your children and the family to do so. He is wastefully dissipating marital assets on your WW. His BW needs to know and understand this and immediately take this ahole to court for financial support and custody. They want to make this all about them then let them but no one else is going along for the destructive ride. Let Romeo and Juliet take the dive off a tall mountain and not hurt anyone else anymore than they already haver

WOW -- after overhearing conversation with the WW and Om,I believe that she is going to file for divorce tomorrow - so that they can feel better about their trip. they dont seem to care about what this does to every one else.

Am I supposed to still believe that this is repairable?

She wont even give me the time of day anymore!

If it wasnt for the kids I dont know if i could do any of this.

reachingout,

LISTEN and DO what the good posters above have already told you.

i rarely post here but i read read read and i have done an amalgam of advise from the posters in this site.

WH was also very adamant about him not loving me anymore and that DS would one day understand what he has done to our family.

He has told me he had consulted a lawyer for annulment (live in another country, divorce not applicable here).

Has he done that? No.

After exposure, he had subjected me to verbal abuse in public saying he will never come back to us.

Right now, we are not yet near recovery but he seems to have woken up a little, gotten his head out of the fog and acting more civil!

These WS need some sense knocked into them. Don't enable their affair by giving up! Do all you can for your children's sake. That way even if you and your WW does not reconcile, you can tell them you tried and fought for your marriage and family. They will be proud of you!

Any suggestion about wether I should contest this divorce or allow it to proceed un-contested.

It will be easier on the kids if it is uncontested, also will be cheaper
In my state assets are divided -- cant fight much about that.

maybe a quicker way through this process will make the WW on OM relize the more mundane parts of life again. As it is now they have nice homes to live in, spouses that still love them and children to see at will. After the D they will be forced to deal with all the other realitys again.

I don't ever feel you should help them in any way, so while you may not choose to actively hold up the D, you DO NOT do anything to help move it along.

That's the very minimal advice, and I would like to hear some others weigh in on this question.

YOu need to fight this tooth and nail for full custody otherwise she is going to force your children in to even greater chaos..

with like speeches like

..look kids mommy wants to be happy
you want mommy to be happy right..

so be nice to mommy's new friend..
make HIM feel special ..
and then mommy will be happy...

ok kids...
act happy..............


do you see it...

the faster your wife moves this on...the harder she will crash and burn..

all this activity is just action to force away any time to really contemplate...analyze and FEEL the reality of their choices...

spin
spin
spin
that's what they are dong...cause if they slowed down they'd have to look at the reality from a different angle...

the this is wrong angle to drag all these innocent through this torture

they gobble up actions to keep from feeling
while reality nips at their heels...

you be the reality

court orders NO over seas trips
court orders NO over nights with strange men in the place
YOU stay put
YOU stay with the children....

you better believe she's not talking to you ..you cause her pain because even with all her vitriole she knows she is hurting you and the chidlren and she is not being fair...

you stay steady
like a rock
with the children
creating a stable home..
you can not turn your children over to this irrational human..
this is the time for you to be the stable calm routine with the kids...

to tell them that grownups aren't instantly replacable...

re-contact the wife of the OM

also know the increased stress this is causing your children especially if they are school friends..

contact the teachers and counselors so they know of what your wife is pulling and have them keep an eye out on your kids...

blessings to you..

pray for strength and God's Grace
pray for clarity and slow to words and actions when dealing with her....

speak calmly

find a friend to rant and rave to
exercise like a mad man to release the adreneline

be well
drink lots of fluids...

and buckle down for your kids...
and be ready for anything..

but seek full custody and all legal aspects on your side
document and record her statements and plans about taking the children

ARK

Thanks again ARK for the second day now you and others continue to keep me focused.
staying focused on the things that need to be done sure helps to keep ones head up

Listen to ARK!!!!

at what point in this process will the ww even listen to the idea of fixing the marriage. So far she just shuts me out and says what dont you understand We're Done

It won't be until after NC with the OM. My WW broke it off with the OM in November and there is no discussion of fixing the M. I would say probably around six months after NC. You are in for a long ride.

Right now you may have chaotic feelings.

You need to regain some self-respect and protect your children, home and yourself including marital assets.

I would have this wrapped up and nailed down no later than when they return from overseas (without the kids - I hope that boundary has been settled)

If you wait too long - they will come back from their honeymoon and take over your life and the kids will have a new daddy.

I saw it happen to a friend - they even talked him into changing the kid's names under the OM's name - he gave all his parental rights to the OM - this was under the guise - it was better for the kids.

This blatant disrespect to you is very disturbing.

Personally, if it were me, I'd put her passport through the shredder. I wouldn't allow her to go. Don't be accomodating. This is WAR! Stand up for yourself.

The Kids will NOT !!! be going on that trip but they have
already promised them to go on another -- I'll deal with that later.

I have thought about getting rid of her passport - still in my safe. But i don't think that that would be legal and I am trying to take the high road here.

I am happy (and unhappy)to say that my kids understand what is going on. They are 11 and 14 and very perceptive. They both have expressed their bonds to me and their anger/pain/ hurt .... towards their mother.

The WW and OM thought that everyone would accept their transgressions and live happily ever after.
They are finding out that almost nobody is accepting it, Unfortunatly I think that it is making them move even quicker towards dissolving my marrage and getting on with theirs.

Every day is a battle -- I still cannot see an end to it all

a nice manly thread to read

HERE [color:"red"] <~~~ this is war! [/color]

I don't know that it would be illegal to have the passport magically disappear. I would do it. Why don't we get some more opinions here?

I am hoping that maybe after WW & OM spend a week totally together maybe they will find there are times that are not all fun and they are not perfect. or maybe just get it out of their system and come back to reality.

If anyone would have asked me 2 months ago what to do if your W had an affair I would have had a quick decisive answer.

Still not sure if I really want her back after all the lying, I may be able to forgive the affair but the lying... will take forever to regain back the trust.

heres the latest in this disgusting saga.

I have found out that the OM is a manipulating, controlling idiot (suprise)
I "accidentally" heard a conversation.
I could not believe the way this guy would go from all the gushy talk to you need to get away from your H now and on and on with put downs towards me and telling her what to do and say.
She WW is not usally the kind of person that would take that kind of talk. Must be the alien
Much of their conversation was their mutual complaining about their BS. I guess this is their big tie to each other.
and their talking about their marriage and plans to live together?
Again I wonder if it is worth the effort anymore to fight for her. I love her deeply but this is almost too much, I am going to hate to see her crash and burn from this.
She is a willing participant in this scumbags master plan

What can I do but sit back and watch her destroy herself and family. She has shut everyone else out.

reachingout...

there is a thing we talk about here...it's called the WS fog....

we use that term not to deny what a WS feels or say....but because it is easier than saying...

my previously normal spouse is currently so full of crap and speaking so much crap that I can't beleive they are the same person I married....


affairs are built
lie upon lie upon lie upon lie...

irrationalization upon irrationalization upon irrationalization...

this person you are dealing with now is NOT your wife...
and if she this is the real her then you will be glad glad to be away from such a person...

but the truth is the wife you see know is in total
self survival....

see, to feed the affair the brain plays tricks on the affairee...

re-writes history so that instead of having a BS that was OK...the BS becomes incarnate of evil..

this justifies the affair...

ALSO all the good emotions from the spouse must become BAD to feed the affair.....

It is perfect news that the OM is a controlling baffoon...
that will help you as this affair plays out...

it is perfect that they spend energy discussing you....

YOU really if this was a great love affair...would be a non entity in their lives....
stay the center of focus...and it feeds the falseness of their affair...as they only have YOU and his WIFE to focus on....

don't have look at reality...

you must know believe that 5 months from now this women in front of you is not and will not be the same one...

(though we all get there are no garuntees...but people usually burn out from such chaos.....)

this is why you go to plan A mode....

to be opposite of her expectations and interactions...

infact it is imperitive to keep her guessing...

she expects anger...a fight...don't do it...
especially don't do it if she is baiting you a lot of poor spouses (male) end up with restraining orders in their own homes after a set up from a WS...
be ready
be protective...

be KIND to your wife...it is the LAST thing she expects..

no drippingly sweet but kind.....

you also need to go back to HIS wife and discuss her plans for survival and see if she is willing to come here...for her own sanity as well

have you read about plan A
did you read bobpures post..someone kind bumped it the other day...it can be bumped again if you need it

ARK

Update

Now the OM and WW I guess are tired of waiting for me to get pissed and move so thay are considering getting a place together,

The WW wants to split our assets first, I am still going to stall I guess?

Is it time for Plan B when she moves out or do I still stick with Plan A for a while and wait to see if after some time together things will fall apart?

No splitting of assets, you only talk M, your lawyer does D. Get a good one. Expose, Expose, Expose! Who have you exposed to on OM's side? Have you found his family and told them?

Jim, Exposing the OMs family is a little tricky for me.

I want to be very carefull to protect the children involved here - My daughter and the OM's daughter are good friends
My daughter knows whats going on but I dont think that the OMs kids know about the affair just that hes getting divorced from his wife. I don't want to put the kids in the middle.
I had a brief talk with the OM's wife, but she was upset and did not want to discuss it. I don't feel that recontacting her is going to be very beneficial. Let me know if you guys still think differntly about that.

You are not responsible for his children. If his children are harmed as a result of this, that is his fault. You need to protect YOUR children from living in a split household. Contact his parents and siblings. He probably hasn't been completely honest with them. If they are an upstanding family that may let him know that your wife is NEVER welcome in their family. This can put tremendous pressure on the OM. My OM's father did a good job of telling off his son. I don't think that you understand that this is war. Act accordingly.

Every day is frustrating.

Even the days where I feel that I have done everything reasonable to be the good guy here it gets thrown back at me as a negative.

If you can believe this the WW is mad at me for being a good father now. She accuses me of trying to be "the father of the year" as if that was a bad thing. Early on she had indicated that the way I interacted with the kids was a part of the reason for wanting to leave, now that I have improved that -- she sees it as a problem. And by the way I always thought that I was very active with my chidren, now I KNOW just how much my children love and respect me.

I know that I can't just promise change it has to actually happen, so why does it seem to do no good? Her A with the OM jst seems to continue to get stronger.

Just when I think I am dealing with this better the depression, anxity, and Knots in the stomach return. I shouldent feel like the bad person here!

reachingout...

your wife is acting the WS by the script..

villify you
makes OM good....

the whole key to a good plan A ...and did you read the post bumped up.....
bobpures
plan A get grounded here
etc...

have you read about plan A

Plan A is allll about dong and saying and expecting NOTHING in return and I do mean N O T H I N G

it is planting seeds that may take months to show signs of any life...

if you give and do to and for your wife with NO expectations...it can really free you up to give and do a lot of things...

ALSO
you must and can confront your wife on the reality of her behaviors in a non love busting way...

she says you are trying to be Father of the year...

you say back calmly no my love I am trying to be kind and stable for the children...no more and no less what they need from their parents...

don't argue
don't powerstruggle...

do realize what type of scum behavior both are engaging in..

this fantasy of their happiness in total denia of the reality of the pain they will bring to all they touch...

your wife is gonna fall hard hard hard....

even if someone is very very unhappy in a marriage...and married to the scum of the earth...

even they need time to move slowly and process the reality of change...

your wife isn't like that..and nor were you the worst on earth....

yet they move at the speed gobbling up actions that are chaotic and false never processing a thing or a decision

they are both setting themselves up to fall hard...
because they are doing wrong to all they touch...

in Tolstoy's Anna Karina the two affair partners end up together....
and the life they built is a living [email]he@@[/email]

it's a perfect illustration of the using of everyone and anyone to get what they think they desire most...

only to find that it was empty the whole time...

read those posts...understand plan A inside and out...

pray for God's Grace to send you humility to see how truly wounded your wife is as she layers cloak upon cloak of insane choices and actions.....

seek your doctor for antidepressants...

find a close friend (male) in whom you can confide and cry and rant to....

fill your children's life with joy and continiously invite your wife to join in with you all....

take care of yourself..
read bobpures post..
click on my name and click view recent posts...as I bumped them recently and they should show up there....

ARK

ARK,

Yes, I have and continue reading about plan A
have also read some of Bob Pures

I have and continue to do my best with it.

I am not sure if I am good at it though as I have described in previous post it seems almost everything that I do seems to be taken the wrong way. I know that is part of the fog but its taken a while for me to get used to it.

It seems that all of our conversations get directed to the relationship or housing arrangements or splitting of assets,not by my choice but WW always takes in that direction.

I just typed about two pages of rants then deleted them from this post, I relized after writing all of these feelings and then reading through them that it was beneficial to me.
For two reasons
1. it felt good to get it out
2. after reading what I wrote I relized where I could do better with plan A.

I'll start writing a personal journal today.

In the mean time I'll continue to come here for support and issues I still need advise on.

Thanks again esp. to ARK for support it really helps.

Reaching Out,

Email me at the address in my signature line below.



Your wife is an affair addict

EVERYTHING she says or does will transpire through her addiction lens

1. If it helps the affair it is discussed or pursued

2. If it confronts, interrupts, combats, etc. the affair it will be resisted, with prejudice

3. If it neither helps or hurts the affair...it will be ignored (like her kids the last few months most of the time unless she needs to give the illusion to OM she is a responsible and loving parent)

Now that you've found MB and discovered her affair OF COURSE she's in the #2 area. You are taking action and trying to save your marriage. You are trying to maintain HOPE. All of which confront her addiction, hence you seemingly believe you are making it worse. IT CAN'T GET ANY WORSE. Trust the plan and it will get better...at least, for YOU.

Remember this to (from the main website)...Dr. Harley's words:

There are 3 states of interpersonal relations

1. Intimacy
2. Conflict
3. Withdrawal

Conflict with your WW is much better than withdrawal. Appeasment will NEVER work.

Additionally, what Jim said above about withdrawing 3/4 of the liquid assets is dead on (25% per family member). I don't care if the equity in the house will later cover anything she may abscond with from your joint accounts now or very soon. WS's live in the now. Without cash, real life consequences can ensue. At the very least they will burn through the OM's money and NOT your families money. Let her pursue more than 1/2 the equity in the house in court 6-12 months from now. Today...restrict her access to fundage.

DON'T move out. But I'll get into that privately when you email me.

Mr. Wondering

I have what I think is a strong plan to move forward with my life and my kids life.
I need some advice on wether this is Love Busting or just staying and showing strenght, I tired of playing the door mat.

I will not move out of the house but I will push for her to move out of the house, her actions with the OM are not good for the kids and certinly don't help our relationship. every day that goes by is more strained.
I will also attempt to get primary custody of the children even though no divorce papers have been filed.

I think that I need to do this to move ahead but it does seem contrary to plan A.

Please give me some of your thoughts.

This is good. A plan gives you a purpose and allows you to settle down the raw emotions. Protect the family from the affair chaos. Your kids are your first priority since they have only one sane parent currently. Protect your finances. BTW - Who is paying for the Lawyer?


Seems to me this plan fits the "stick" portion of Plan A.

The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.

I wouldn't encourage her to move out. Expressing the option to her when she complains about the your gentle and calm expressions of boundaries is OK...but, it gets harder to fix your marriage if you are separate. You are merely opening the cage door so to speak, then she can't claim you are trying to control and manipulate her...if she moves, it's completely HER choice. Remember...she takes nothing with her but her clothes. The court and lawyers divide maritatl property and negotiate separation agreements, not you.

Further...the longer she stays the more time you have to demonstrate and document that you are super-dad and entitled to primary custody of your kids. It's not necessarily that easy to just get custody....especially as a man.

Mr. Wondering

I'm looking for some good advice for the next few Days.

The WW and the OM continue to do their thing - they seem to have gotten past the embarassment of exposure, in fact they are portraying their A to anyone who will listen as two wayward souls that have finnaly found their soulmate, and how can you hold that against us.

They are planning their overseas trip for next week, looks like they plan on spending sat night together also, Sunday night they wanted to go to a superbowl party together but when the kids overheard her plans they told her they wanted to see her before she went away - She may decide to stay home on sunday out of guilt.

I expect that when they return from their trip they are going to go full speed ahead with D.

Any suggestions on things to do over the next few days to keep hopes of any recovery alive. She still has shut me out, Not much communucation - no indication of any desire to fix our relationship - totally focused on the OM.

Looking for any ideas.

reachingout...

part of plan A action for you today...

1. Call the childrens school...inform their teachers and counselors of wifes plans of going on a trip........

open the lines of communication with the teachers and ask for guidance and information of any changes in them at school....


2. Call your wife and calmly tell her this...

Dear I called the school today and spoke with the teachers and counselors to inform them that their mother is leaving them to go on a trip......and we spoke at length over their concerns.....

3. make huge plans this weekend with the kids...INVITE your wife...but do not stay home and appease her wanting to spend time with them..
plan something smashing that the kids want to do...invite her......but go and do and fill the kids weekend with fun and joy.......

do not insist she comes
do not accomodate her I want to spend time with them..

say cool if you want to spend time with them..here's where we are going..please come with US....

4. read the lighthouse post...do not cave in to their false false false bravado that any of their actions are noble.....

these two are going to crash hard....very hard....
every plan is the wrong one with NO concern for anyone elses feelings but their own....

they are leaving a huge wake of destruction..and mark my words it will catch up with them...

who is caretaking for the children while she is away...
what are the arrangements and which ones can you bow out of.....to make it difficult for her to abandon...lets discuss the details...to see where you can wiggle and throw some wrenches....

what do YOUR parents say about this
what do HER parents say about this...

what has contact been with the OM's wife....

lets discuss....

NO belly up...

mr wonderings God Bless you and your offer of assistance...
I am praying he takes you up on it....
much Grace to you...

ARK

Great questions ARK!

Answers Reachingout??

Thanks for the input here are some answers -

awesome reaching...

so what if you weren't available for a day during her scheduled...

what would she do.....

definitely fill the house with a party..
be charming
warm
friendly
to her
and
the guests...

ARK

Breakthrough????

I actually think the WW and I had some sort of a conversation tonight.

It started out really bad where she just wanted to talk about whos' moving out and how to split assets - turned into a pretty big battle where for the first time I told her I was done with all the [censored] and I was going to stay in the house and fight for custody of the kids. We broke of for a little while because yhe kids came into the room- had dinner then actually really talked for about an hour and a half. There was no apology but she did say "I'm not proud of what I did or how I did it". Nothing has really changed with the OM but this is the first time that she has shown any kind of guilt.
I'll take that as progress. --- Baby steps

I might even sleep tonight!!

Telling her you are going to fight for custody of the kids is NOT staying on subject and it may warn her to prepare for just such a fight. You are not to discuss separation, divorce or custody fight with her....that's what attorney's do.

It's not horrible that you did this. It is definitely a stick of Plan A comment and delivering such message once is a bold and strong statement.

I am not trying to discourage you but want you to stay focused and aware. Until the affair ends, I wouldn't put much stock in evaluating progress. If she's planning a trip with OM she's more likely in appeasement mode....meaning she'll say and do anything to maintain the status quo to avoid risking the upcoming trip. If she has to be nice to you, demonstrate a little guilt and keep the peace before she leaves so be it. If you had tried telling her she can't go...then the crap would have hit the fan.

Sorry...just the way they work. It's not about you. Everything she says and does is filtered through her addiction...period.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - my wife took off on a two week trip (before I found MB) to be alone and think. I was con'ed that they were ending it and we were making progress. I was wrong and they were together. She came back deeper in it than before she left. My wife's biggest fear before she left was I would file while she was gone. It would be a HUGE gamble to play that card because as an addict your wife is still likely to go on the trip and you would appear really weak and wimpy if you failed to follow through with any threat you were to make. If I had it over to do I would have played that card and meant it. But that's only hindsight. I was not prepared emotionally to do that at the time and it's likely neither are you. It's not very MB either....but I have no idea what Dr. Harley (or Steve Harely) would advise you to do to prevent such trip.

It's good you meet her need for conversation <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mr. Wondering

After a decent nights sleep and having a chance to think unemotionally a little,
Your probably right, the begining of our conversation was ment to be combative trying to pick a good fight to make her feel better about going away, then being conciliatory so that I would'nt do something while shes gone ---

The Game continues -- I hope I am getting better at playing because I sure don't like playing.

Boundrys crossed again!!!

Every gain that I may have made went out the window.
My Daughter stayed home from school this morning sick. My WW had the day off from work. She informed me that she had other things to do today so I said that I would stay home with my daughter, she backed off and we agreed that I would go to work till noon or so thaen come back and she could do her things. I decided to work from the Home office to collect e-mails & save some time, WW seemed to get angry that I hadn't left yet, and that she could have been doing her things if I was going to be home. About that time the OM's car pulled in our drive, I reminded her that he was not welcome in our house, especiially with one of the kids around.
She let him in the back foyer, after 5mins or so I took it upon myself to leave, you can imagine that it wasn't a good scene.
Words were exchanged between the me and the OM. WW got upset -- wanted to know why I was unresonable!!
I restated the boundry that the OM was not allowed to come to our home.

I think that plan A just had a major set back

BALONEY

major set back my butt...

no women would let another women in to HER home..

you did right well and noble in telling jerk to hit the road....

with your daughter home..

sick sick sick...

good job keeping it verbal...

You should tell him next time you are calling police....

wife wanted to know why you were unreasonable..
pathetic..
I know it's all awfu...
but your wife is pretty much insane right now...

tell you are installing security cameras in the house....

ARK

Did you leave the house with the OM still there with your WW and child ? I don't understand why? Maybe I am misunderstanding the post.

What I can't understand is why you allowed him to stay, or why you left with him still in your home. Is the house in your name as well? Are you staying there at the moment. If that was the case, personally I would have asked him to leave immediately, and if he didn't skidaddle, I'd call the police. The very public attention may have been enough for him to know that he was unwelcome at your home.

Plan A doesn't mean like you have to act like a wimp in front of your W.

Active WS's don't respond well to threats. I'd have just called the police. Then my lawyer, to see what legal steps I could take to prevent him from coming into my home again.

H*ll no I didn't leave the house

I stayed home all day. I gave WW very little time to get rid of him on her own when he didn't leave immediatly I stepped in.

No whimping out on this issue!!


I would have called the police but that would have ment he would be here longer.

Oh no my point was well made and he left not me -- Haven't seen WW al day - there probably off consoling each other!!

No - I feel good about throwing him out.

I think I'll change the locks while WW is gone for week with him, let her call police to get back in, I'd just love to explain that to them.

I need to calm down again -- can't do plan A with the adrenalin flowing! :-)

That idiot showed up again I would hand him his azz on a silver platter and let the police sort it out.

Ok, I am calmer now....what I would do is file a trespasssing order against him or something. If WW did this again in front of my kid I would send her packing.

Just my 2 cents.

yea, felt like dooing that but can't help kids from behind bars....

and the big LB - as soon as I was done removing my foot from his *** , I was angry and told WW that if this was going to go on she should get out now..made my point at the moment - later I corrected my comment to "I really wnat you to stay but if you choose to allow this we will need to do something else".

Worst 12 hours of my life>>

I can't stand to see my kids going through this.

Its tearing my heart out.

I don't think that plan A can be continued.

I have to tell WW again that her actions are horrible - I could get through the pain of her rejecting me but know she is hurting the kids.

This morning I had to discipline my daughter for acting up, I did not let her go out to an activity that she normally does sat morning. She was alredy upset with me for taking her activity away,then WW was going out the door to WHO KNOWS WHERE when WW walked buy my daughter my dd said get away from me - WW reply was dont worry I am...
My daughter must feel so alone right now, I am normally able to comfort her but she won't let me in right now.
I can't imagine how terribly difficult this is for her.

I can't stand to see it,
I guess OM and WW have won they broke me.

And the saga goes on....

Today WW informs me that she will be leaving around 2:30 to have dinner with OM.
2min before she leaves she tells me not to expect her home till 2:00 tomorrow.

She has OM pick her up at our house while kids are waching

Scumbags scumbags SCUMBAGS


At least there is less tension in the home with her gone!!

I seem to be getting angryer and angryer about this -
I pray that I can continue.

Have papers been filed? I would see my attorney and get a restraining order to keep OM away from my home, and to try to get wife OUT.

Her disrespect is going to kill any love you have for her.

Today at church the surmon was about Luke 15 -- Lost Souls
I could have sworn that the Pastor was talking directly to me and my son. The message was not to give up hope on those that have strayed and to keep looking for them to come back - even if it may take a long time.

I was going to file for D myself this week while WW was on overseas trip with OM just to stop her from continuing to detroy the children by her actions - I think that I will now wait till she returns - see if there is any change.

I don't think that there is really anything left in the LB any more - Time for plan B or too late?

This is what I did. I asked God for emergency deposits in my love bank tokeep plan A going.

Jim,

I'll give that a shot,
I've asked for a lot of his help lately.

Plan B would be good, but you would need to get your wife out of the house. Maybe the trip will cause them to argue.

Believer,

She has already said she will be moving out when she gets back.
I know that most of the advise here tends to be not to seperate because it is hard to work on a relationship that way, but I see ours as degrading each day.

Maybe moving out will give them a dose of reality.

Maybe leaving the kids for a week will make her relize how much she will miss them,

Maybe leaving the kids for a week will make her relize that she is hurting the kids with her actions

Maybe they will have some quarrels

Maybe they will discover each others habits that they dont like

DOs

1. Act Happy
2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)
3. repeat over and over..."I will make it"
4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone
5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point)
6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum)
7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc)
8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong
9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)

DON'Ts

1. Repeatedly say "I love you"
2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet
3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag
4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions
5. Argue, Reason or Plead
6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST)
7. Act helpless or depressed
8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble
9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea)
10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship"
11. GIVE UP

"Thou hast not to like it - thou hast just to do it."
-- Richard Marcinko, Seal Team Six

reachingout, your W is so abusive to you and your children that I think you should move to Plan B in the near future, before you explode. What she is inflicting on your family is more than most could endure and you have an obligation to protect your kids from her. It is shocking that she would actually bring this sleaze to your home in front of you and your children. It is harmful to all of you to be exposed to this.

I would suggest you get a seperation, when she leaves for her vacation with the OM, removing her from the house and gaining custody of the kids. Protect your finances from her and get a restraining order against the OM. Then after the dust settles for a couple of weeks, give her a Plan B letter.

But, I think you must do something. Your kids can't be exposed to this abuse. You shouldn't be exposed to this abuse. And doing nothing to stop it only enables her. What a sad, sad, situation.

Reachingout,
My $.02 as well, executing your plan, whatever it is, will allow you to regain the initiative in this situation and allow you regain control of yourself. The confidence in yourself is the biggest key to everything you need to do. If you have not already done so, I would also recommend buying these books (if you already have not)as they will help you to assess your own strengths and weaknesses in order to put together a good plan:
Surviving an Affair
Love Busters
His Needs, Her Needs

I'd read them in the order above and start working on YOU meaning, get fit and strong in the gym, learn to control your negative emotions, lear to express your positive emotions, build habits that make you an attractive option as a spouse. Once you are executing these items, your WW will notice. If you can remain firm but caring towards her and strong and loving for your kids, she cannot help but notice.

The OM is obviously an @hole who only cares about himself and is scared to embark on a journey like you are about to start. His fear is why he is clutching at your WW. The difference between your strength and his weakness will become evident. It may take some time, but it will be obvious.

Your WW will then want to test the "New" you so she will try to bait you and expose that this is just an act. When she is at her most vicious towards you, it will be her testing to see just how strong you have become. You wiil need to control/eliminate your Love Busters at this time and be understanding of her fear. She will become afraid that you could never forgive her and that will be the crux of her decision. She will only make the attempt at reconciliation if she sees that you are strong enough to repair the damage and not just wanting to punish her for her wrongs.

It is a tough thing to swallow your pride in this way. I had to tell my brother to ask me this question whenever I started to waiver:
"What are you willing to endure so Son4 and Daughter2 can be raised in a happy home with both of their parents?" The time you will need to invest will seem like an eternity but will be short compared to the childhood of your kids. In the end this is a very self serving process as well because you and your WW will learn how to be happy with each other.

Thanks again for the input, WW is leaving today on her trip with OM, The kids have a delayed opening from school because of the weather. They may put a little more guilt on her for a couple of hours.

I have SAA and am doing best at plan A. WW doent make it easy.

I have thought about all of those legal remifies while she is gone, restraining orders - custody orders - etc.

My plan at this point is not to upset the apple cart till after their trip, maysbe something will happen.
If nothing changes I will encourage her to leave without directly telling her that - I don't want her to be able to tell the court that I forced her out.

plan B when she moves out??

Any suggestions to improve this plan will be appreciated.

Received good advice from ML. Protect the young ones & yourself first. Marriage and busting the affair will take time.

nononono, you would go to court and get her forced out LEGALLY while she is gone. She has abandoned your family for her affair. What I am suggesting is that you file for a LEGAL seperation that is prepared and ready to be executed upon her return.

The apple cart is VERY UPSET right now and I am suggesting that you take steps to upright it by taking back control of your lives from a crazy, abusive person.

Then after she is moved out, you would go to Plan B. I don't think you should continue this Plan A when she is this abusive. It is harmful to your children and you. You have a greater obligation to protect your children. And frankly, she is so fogged out and entitled that I suspect that nothing short of such a wake up call would suffice.

p.s. why not put a call into Dr. Harley on his radio show today and tell him about this? You can get free advice from 10-1 cst today. Just click on the radio link at the top. He is really good!

There is no legal seperation in my state -- Only D
Seems like that would be the end ??

I was thinking of putting a note in her luggage to reminder her of her children -- while in the throws of passion .

any suggestions to what I might Say?

I second the above. Yes, Plan B after she is out of the house, exactly as they have all advised you. First, she must be out of the house.

Read the Betrayed Spouse - It is the Fear... post in GQ II and then absorb that. It's great advice, I wish it was easy to implement. I read it everyday.

Then, read that quote I placed at the top. The only fear I would allow myself is the fear of more damage to my children and overall well-being if you don't drop your other fears. Go to war with your fear, you have your life to regain no matter what and your children to protect. If she won't let you live for your entire family (which includes her), then live for your children. You can't do that when you are afraid of loss.

I'm telling myself everyday that my worst fear has already been realized, and it can't any worse. By that, I mean the moment my WW told me she didn't love me anymore. I'm trying to be numb to everything else: The separation, loss of all OUR belongings, loss of our life savings, dream home, her involvement with OM, my DD's anger at me, fighting resentment towards WW and MIL for poisoning my DD, and the very real possibility of divorce and losing the love of my life.

I can not afford to be afraid of that, I need to survive. I am already a better husband, father, and person from all of this. I am only growing stronger by the day. You will survive all this, I swear it.

Put it in His hands, you can control your life and no one else's.

Let go of your fear to be your childrens' hero, because...

You already are.

Don't bother with the note

and

After the trip, she'll most likely be much deeper in the fog.

Listen to ML.

Mr. Wondering

How will a note in her luggage protect your kids?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Please consider the advice I gave you about moving to Plan B and doing what you can to protect your kids from her. Contact a lawyer and see what you can do!

I didn't do the note - decided it wouldn't do any good any way - probably would be ignored.

I left the house when my DD went to school.

All I told WW was that I was here for her if she needed -
No love yous
No have a good time
Not much of anything from either one of us..

I hope that this week without her around will help to get some clarity on the issues with out the daily dose of BS.

Looking into seperaton agreement- doesn't mean much in this state but it defines asset splits and custody for temp basis. Can still be overturned in D. Still has to be agreed upon both sides.

When all of the exposing of the A doesn't do any good and they become more out in the open with their A,and no indication of wanting to work on the M, I guess the facts are the facts and time to move forward.
I still can't believe how non-responsive to the kids needs she has become.
Definitly not the woman I married.
And not someone I particularly want to be around if I take a moment to think about it.

The love bank must have a minimum balance that keeps me trying.

I just got done talking to a good friend on the phone.
I unloaded on him - said things that I never thought I would say about my wife and never to someone I know.
All those thoughts that swirl around in the back of your head while you try to be good in plan A.
All the thoughts that go through while WW is lying to your face, rewriting history, and destroying everything that you once thought was normal.

I'm not sure if it feels good or wether I regret saying all those bad things.

I do think that my friend was ready for it, he called because he knew it was going to be a stressfull day with the WW going of with OM.
I actually think he's been waiting for all the bad stuff to come out.

In the end he reminded me that I still had character that was so much more on a higher level than what was going on with WW and OM. And that the relationship that they were building based on lies and deceit is doomed to fail.

Thanks for friends here and at home...

Buying kids with gifts????

WW left several expensive gifts for the kids (I-pods, clothing etc.) before she left on her trip with OM.

Does she think that showering the kids with gifts is going to work?? Make them accept her new man??
I think that it did work some on the kids - they seemed as though hey didn't want to tell me tonight - maybe didn't want to

I think that the OM is showering WW with gifts trips etc. making her feel special - thats his hook

how long can that last??

Reality has to set in soon!!

be strong brother, its not about ww or OM its about you you are strong you are a man, your children have two examples right now how to lead their lives, you may think they will choose the easy gift giving one, they wont. Kids always want structure and love not gifts.

You need to protect yourself, you have a week to be prepared.

Get a Camera and record everytime WW and OM are around, have you started your father's custody journal yet.

This week be a camera crazied man, every chance you have take a picture of you and the kids, at the mall at the park in the snow. Start creating a Album of your fatherhood.

I hate to say it - its going to get nastier before it stops or gets better. Your backing her and him into a corner and they will protect each other and attack you, past the point of reason.

Be prepared she will claim abuse, you hit her, you neglected her. You need people on standby that will come over and sit with you when WW is home, so to be a witness to what you do and didn't do.

Get a voice recorded, record every call with her, calls with her and the kids. Everything that is said is recorded, use letters or emails to communicate with her and copy each one sent or received.

Its time to move your assets to a safe location, if you have valuables if you have things you don't want divide go rent a garage/storage NOW and move those things over immediately. Legally your at a good place, because your married.

Can you get the OMW to get you a copy of the credit card bill used to buy the tickets for the cruise, better yet get a copy of the ticket as they have WW and OM names printed on them, and if it is a cruise they are assigned the same room...

Even if your state is no fault, adultery is weighed in distribution and custody... You just need to document everything

Start going to school and speaking to the counseler and teacher. Find one that is sympathetic and work on their willingness to testify for you, they will be reluctant but work on them slowly. Make sure they have regular one on one contact with your children... make sure they write down notes that they could refere back to in case they testify... remember scooter libby.

Divorce is not a end its a beginning, its a beginning for you to be free of fog and free of abuse.

So don't fear it, just don't enable it.

I just read through your situation. One thing you really need to be doing is doing is documenting and journaling your WW behavior around the kid’s.

Example:
Her willingness to go for a holiday with OM while this is all fresh to them.
Having OM in the house while they (and you) are there.
Her unwillingness to care for daughter when sick despite not being at work,

All these factors can heavily influence the custody decision. That in turn might get WW out of the fog for a moment.

Yes I am keeping a detailed journal, talking with the kids counsolers - making sure that friends know what is going on - letting MIL know whats going on -
I still need to get past the fear but I'm working on it, getting stronger each day.

I can't begin to express how helpfull this forum has been to me, not only the wonderfull advice that is given (often with different views to keep some balance) but also being able to see the clear pattterns of almost all of these sitchs' - Helps me to relize that it's not just me, and although at this point, to me, it seems hopless - there is hope as evidenced through others real experiances.

I hope that one day I will be able to give back with positive experiances and helpfull advice.

Thank you to all that help. Each post helps.

Hey

Are you getting an action plan together? So far its been abuse and reaction.

Have you seen an atty? Advise or ask the atty how you and kids need protection from this emotional and financial assualt.

Your kids have to be protected from this ordeal. I am sure when they return from the honeymoon, they will come back with guns blazing. You are getting a rare opportunity of peace to formulate your next course of action.

I have a question for all the legal minded out there

Those of you familiar with my sitch know that my WW is in out of the country this week with the OM.

It has occured to me that this may be my chance to record phone conversations but I am still unsure of the legalities.
In my state all parties must agree to being taped during a phone conversation. A friend of mine said that if the call is out of the country that only the party still in state would have to consent.

Anybody have an opinion on this - it may be my only chance to get recorded evidence.

I would think you would then fall under federal mandates for wiretap which I believe says both parties are aware.

I wouldn't engage her, just let her say hi to the kids and don't say anything else.

What is going on with getting the ticket receipts and proof of the trip for your legal fight.

Are you preparing for her return and the fight that will come

You bet I'm getting prepared.
Don't think I'll have any luck getting proof of flight etc. the OM arranged and I think paid for everything.
At least there are no charges on any cards or money removed from any accounts.
I do have a pretty good idea of when they flew out and on what airline that if need be can be used. Also think I Know what hotel I was going to call front desk and ask for her by her name -- and record in journal.
Had good reason to contact her today - took DD to Dr. for ear ache ( also had Dr. document stress at home as part of exam ) But had no way to reach her - goes into journal.

I think that they will be making plans while they are gone to move in together.

I’m a firm believer in that the betrayed spouse’s mantra should be “pray for sun – prepare for rain”. I do hope you can save your marriage but the advice I’m going to give right now is a lot more to do with saving yourself...

I would send her an e-mail telling of your daughter’s ear-ache. Word it in a brief and open manner that would leave her with more questions than answers. Most/all e-mailers have an option of requesting a delivery and read reply. Mark both options before sending the e-mail. Note that not all programs reply to the read option. Neither the “confirm delivery” not “confirm when read” options is easily traceable by her.

If she does reply then the message trail can be used to confirm from where the mail was sent. If she doesn’t reply then it shows you did notify her of the situation and she showed no interest or did not make arrangements beforehand to reachable. You have proof that you tried to get in touch.

I strongly recommend you do NOT tape the phone. Although I think it’s OK from purely a surveillance point of view then taping without her consent is very likely illegal and can even be used to show you entrapped her into “sounding like a bad mom”.

If you have a trusted friend who is in the know about your situation then you could use this alternative: IF she phones tell her you are busy and offer to phone back in 30 minutes. If she refuses then ask her to phone at a certain time. Get your friend over and have him witness the phone call.

WW won't check her e-mail while away. She has totally check out of reality - doesn't seem to care about the things that used to matter - friends/family/ even activities that she was involved in have taken a back seat.Checking e-mail while away wouldn't fit into tha fantasy.
On the bright side the past 2 days have been quite nice with the kids - a welcome reprive from the daily grind and abuse.

Reachingout,
I did some research into a lawyer for my own sit recently and hers is some of the advice from that research:
1)establish that you are primary care giver to kids, you are doing that already it seems, but make sure it is very detailed and please write by hand in a daily planner type book to establish this was not all just made up at the last minute. Establish that being with you as the custodial parent is in the children's best interest.
2)be very careful when disciplining the children. under no circumstances allow any situation to be perceived as abusive by you, this would include spanking.
3)Be very careful in your friendships and associations with women. Even if it is just friendship, accusations that you are seeking companionship outside the marriage can blunt your claims of infidelity.
4)Do not physically confront the OM or WW, even if she accuses you of something you did not do, cooperate with the police at the time and seek legal recourse later, no being a hothead even if you are RIGHT.
5)Avoid all drug and alcohol use during the period of contention.

In a way then whether she reads the post or not isn’t too important. Sending the mail will show that you are acting in a responsible manner. If this goes to divorce and custody then the mail will show that you are not preventing her from being a part of the children’s lives but that she chooses not to respond.

In fact – considering your daughter went to a doctor – not informing your wife might be considered the complete opposite: an attempt by you to keep her away from the children.

Bigger, good Idea I'll send e-mail anyway.

Gameface, I am on track with all that - It's not hard for me to follow those suggestions :-) - comes naturally.

The hardest part of this is trying to balance self preservation and protection of the kids with The idea of trying to save the marriage. They seem to be contradicting each other at this point.
The kids are worth saving though and take top priority - someday when this has all played out, My Children will be able to look up to me with respect for how this is being delt with. If WW ever comes around she will see that I am doing what needs to be done cosidering the circumstances and if she doesn't come around - well - then I guess it doen't matter what she thinks.

RO,
The other benefit to getting the situation with your kids, under control is that once you can put that in maintenance mode, you can focus on a good plan A, Plan B. If you are worried about the kids, you won't be able to focus and you will likely not be as confident in the rest of your dealings with the WW.

Quiet confidence in yourself will be one of the factors that ends up snapping her head around to see what is up with you.

keep us posted!

Reaching,

Read only if you are willing to hear the cold hard truth, as I see it.




You are sure you still want to read? If so, proceed.




Let me see if I understand this correctly: Your WW and OM go on a “love” trip where they will be screwing each other’s brains out, yet you somehow believe that WW could be less in the fog when she returns. The question for me is not how much in the fog your WW will be when she returns, but how much in the fog are you currently in.

How much disrespect can you accept before you stand up for yourself? Bro, you need to stop fooling yourself and start standing up for your children, if not for yourself.

File TODAY. File ASAP. You will never be in a better position legally. You need to press your advantage. Respect yourself and protect your children. You can worry about the M later. You are a long way away from salvaging your M.

Note that your children are keenly observing your actions. If you keep being a wimp like you’ve been (although with intermittent moments of clarity), your children will lose, justifiably, respect for you.

Let’s say you don’t file and wait on your (ABSURD) fantasy that WW may become more willing to work on the M after the trip. WW, after having a great time with OM and with all kinds of chemicals floating in her brain, file for D first, seeking, among other things, primary custody. You will then be in a defensive position legally and would have to counteract all of her claims, instead of being in the offensive in this regard. You could still win, but you would have put yourself at a huge disadvantage unnecessarily. Strike first and strike hard while the facts are clearly in your favor legally.

Please note that I am not saying that you should not try to save your M. I am saying first things first. You will have time to save the M later. Given the complete disrespect displayed by your WW and her clear intentions to file for D once she returned (I really can’t see how she can be clearer on this), you need to press your advantage. What you need to do right now is to protect yourself and your children. What you need to do right now is to FILE ASAP.

If you do not respect yourself, no one will. If you do not protect your children, no one will. Rationalization should not be an excuse for not doing the right thing. And the right thing here is to look after yourself and your children FIRST.

Best

Lets have opinions on this -- let me know both sides.

I am really leaning towards filing now.

I read through my own posts and IMHO I would say file if it was someone else.,

This is my week of clarity - Let me hear all sides -
I want to move on!

Talk to atty for advice. Give the whole story.

From what I read - file asap while they are out of country. Get some restraining order or protection from OM entering your house or being around the kids.

This situation is absurd - You should not have to take this crap. Earlier post from Cymanca mentioned to give the WW a push in her fantasy. Dont wait for the storm to arrive back. Get a plan together while you have the calm.

Reachingout

Have you FILED yet????? Temporary full custody, child support, the family home, financial split of bills, no person of opposite sex around the children at either parent's residence.

Protect the children first. Your WW is doing plenty to take care of herself and OM. She has several months to change her mind of which I would do Plan B up and until the D if it goes that way.

Get with it. There will never be a better chance w/ their flippin Mother out of the COUNTRY with an adulterous affair partner leaving children with you.....

Today may be the day I have the atty file.

I'm still looking for as much advice to consider as possible.

As you can imagine this is a difficult decision.

RO, you need to move forward and take steps to protect your children. Like the others said, strike now while the iron is hot and file. You cannot lose by filing but you and your kids will lose if you don't. Just because you file does not mean things cannot be worked out in the future. But if you don't, your children and yourself will continue to be exposed to this abuse. And your wife is one of the more abusive ones. You need to get up and get your family off the train tracks, ro; the train is coming. MOVE!

Momentum is on your side RO, "strike now while the iron is hot" is a good description of this.

Yes, I would agree. This is a moment in your life when you are called upon to ACT. You will remember this time in your life for the rest of it. So will your kids.

She has made her legacy. What will yours be? Make it one of the father who took a stand. You will not regret it, I promise you. It's quite possible your kids will tell their kids of what happened during this time in your life. What do you want them to remember in the telling?

Call it what ever you want to...

do what you have to do to line all the duckies up in a row.....
for primary protection of the children..

emotionally and financially

which ever the legal route that is that helps secure it...

BUT

reachingout...

You are correct that this 'vacation' is a vile trip your wife is on....

no person who ABANDONS all children spouse..parents etc...
no matter how much they pretend it is all in the name of love and a good thing...believe it themselves....

know deep deep in their soul they are wrong...
and though they run from it..

those moments at night right before sleep comes when the rest of us can go gently in to that knowing that to the best of our ability our actions are noble and good...

it is then that the subconcious can not be stilled and the seeds are planted of the vileness....

you had no choice but to let her go...you can not stop her you can not control
you can not tie her up and keep her from those things...

sayings and mantras exist because there is truth in them..

we reep what we sow....

wherever you go (run to) there YOU are

no man is an island...


the legacy these two have set in motion will crumble and no good will ever come from it...

my favorite line in the color purple is when the main character confronts her abusive vile husband during a meal at which he has his OW there as well

speaks clearly and strongly the words that are true

She tells him..

Until you do right by me nothing you touch will be of any good......
your wife and OM are like that...and until they do right by the spouses, children and family they are hurting...
no good will come.....

they are the deadly sins in action
pride, envy, anger, avarice, sadness, gluttony, and lust.

they gorge and cling on eachother...yet both are so lost from the Light of God..and all that is good on this earth

no vacation
no beautiful setting
no joy will be theres...because these things only have true value and meaning when partaken in good standing with society and God.

this is not a fantasy that these two will crash and burn hard...their wake of destruction involves too many and fall they will...

they are on trip because there is no sanctuary in their lives at home...

every where they turn they face those that they can not look in the eye....

the trip means nothing and is empty, shallow and fleeting...

do what you must for the safety...
but take great heart and pray earnestly for humility and God's grace to save them.....

they are lost...
and at the core of their vile actions are two souls blackened

pray for Grace to guide you reaching out...
you are doing very very well

you have my admiration for doing right by your family...

ARK

agreed, FILE, protect your children and yourself.

also reaching out..

I would encourage to again contact the spouse of the OM..
I realize she is not receptive to you...

but consider trying once again...
she is hurting badly....

and you could offer her a link to here....

think about it
ark

I just made the hardest call of my Life.

All of the emotions that I have been able to set aside for the last couple of weeks came flooding back....

Not a done deal yet though. Atty thinks we may be in a better position - custody wise - later. But every thing is going to be ready to go.

I'll update strategy as I think it's safe to.
Don't know who's watching

In the mean time I'll try to keep up to date on my sitch,
I still need the strength that comes from your support.

We are here for you. Don't divulge more than you should and certainly never mention MB to anyone that may know WW. This needs to remain your refuge at this point.

I know it was hard, but you did the right thing.

As my week of relief comes to an end with the WW coming back from her fantasy trip today ...


I finally get it

This week has been a gift from God - I now understand.

My children and I will be just fine with or with-out WW,
And the only way that I can ever move on is to be ok with that fact.. After that its all gravy.


No Fear !!!

Only Confidence.

This feels great.. I don't "need" her

If at some point she wants to give up A and NC OM. then I can decide if I want to try again.

WOW -- What a relief --

Thanks to all to help me to understand..

RO,
Thank God you reached this point of clarity. Now make sure you execute YOUR plan. There will likely be times where you doubt yourself and your plan and want to just retreat to your old behaviors (or at least I do this :-(

Anyway, keep coming back here and to your real-world support system when you feel that resolve slipping. Plus I went back a re-read ARK's post and what ARK says about the trip is true. They fled their real life because the A cannot be sustained in their real lives. Little did the enemy realize that they gave you the space you needed to seize the initiative. I believe you have passed the crux of your problem and now just need to execute.

WW just came down from bed...need to sign off

She's Back - wasn't in the door 10 min before she wanted money so she could move out'

I am so glad that I was able to have that week to gain perspective. I can handle this.

Plan B time

I have the answer to the question - How do you know its
time?
-- You Know --

Just give her the ****** money..

Well I guess I just blew everything...

OM came to my house to pick up WW for a date. she was not ready yet so she had a conversation from the second floor window to his car in the driveway.

All this was in front of my son who was outside at the time and a neighbor walking by.

I lost it -- Let everything out that could be said about what they are doing - very judgemental and full of LBs.

I need to get to plan B -- But she won't leave.

As I have said before D is in the works but I have still tryed to keep with plan A for my own peace of mind.

I feel terrible that I couldn't keep it under control.
How do you do it?

It just builds up to a boiling point - How do you good boundrys with out being judgemental and LBing?

RO,

Your marriage and family were being attacked by OM being at your home...

You're gonna feel defensive...and your defensive tools to date have been LBs...

Now your real tool is truth...

You can call the police and have the OM told to move on...you can then get a restraining order. You can keep your cool because you are acting for your marriage, in truth and with the knowledge you had before you lost it...she's choosing to do this...you choose to enforce your boundaries.

I see where you decided not call when he was in your house before...you said because then he would be there longer...

Do you really want to live honestly, or lie to yourself, like your WW is lying to herself?

Why do you say she won't leave when you said she wanted money to move out?

Confusing. What do YOU want?

Did you re-contact OMW? Did you expose to his work? Why not have your MIL come in and stay in your house while your wife dates? Bring in your folks, too...to be there was witnesses, your support? Have OMW come over and confront them together?

You and your children can make a sign on a large piece of cardboard...and when OM pulls up, take and walk out, all three of you and hold it..."You are destroying a family."

Boundary enforcements...teach your childen to live in truth...this is what is happening, this is what you do, predetermined, progressive...you don't say the same words and expect different results...you speak truth and announce it.

Lots of stuff you can do...Ark and all the others are giving you sound advice...

Know what you will do and what you won't...and WHY.

Plan A is being authentic...so that no matter what happens, you grow and can know you did everything possible to save your marriage...and your children understand how much you love and want them along with your marriage.

You are teaching them crucial lessons...exposing to all the friends parents of your children...helps them, doesn't harm them. They bear no shame for their mother's actions...they want terribly to be understood, of consequence and significant. Help them to know they are.

Judgmental...what is it to you? Making judgments of what others think, feel, believe, perceive...that's not your right. Judging their actions...that's The Truth. Calling them on their choices is not an LB...they may not like it...you're not doing it because they may or may not like it...may or may not wake up...You are doing it because it's truth...and you are honor bound to state it.

Call the police when OM comes onto your property, your driveway, in the street in front of your home. That's real consequences...each time you have not chosen to do this, you've gotten in the way of the consequences of her actions...which is like conspiring against your marriage.

Don't do it.

File that RO today...don't wait. Stay honest.

LA

That is so disrespectful.

Your WW is way out there. Going for holidays with OM, having him in the house, talking to him with son around… Honestly things are not looking good as far as reconciliation is concerned.

About a year ago we had dazednconfusedks struggling in what was seemingly a hopeless situation. The turning point for his WW was when – at court – she realized she would not get primary custody of their child.

Now I’m not sure that getting custody should be your tool to get WW out of the fog but as a father (and speaking as a father) I would be concerned about a mother who shows such blatant disrespect for her children. What you need is some formal way of documenting this and confirming it.

Talk to your lawyer about getting a restraining order on OM around your house and your kid’s. Even if it’s denied then there will be a formal document stating your concerns.

Updates coming soon - Lots going on - I've been lurking though.
Couldn't help but to post this quote

“Have you ever been in love? Horrible isn't it? It makes you so vulnerable. It opens your chest and it opens up your heart and it means that someone can get inside you and mess you up. You build up all these defenses, you build up a whole suit of armor, so that nothing can hurt you, then one stupid person, no different from any other stupid person, wanders into your stupid life...You give them a piece of you. They didn't ask for it. They did something dumb one day, like kiss you or smile at you, and then your life isn't your own anymore. Love takes hostages. It gets inside you. It eats you out and leaves you crying in the darkness, so simple a phrase like 'maybe we should be just friends' turns into a glass splinter working its way into your heart. It hurts. Not just in the imagination. Not just in the mind. It's a soul-hurt, a real gets-inside-you-and-rips-you-apart pain. I hate love.” Niel Gaiman

Okay, so let's have it!! just kidding we will be patient

Today is a tough one - WW just moved out ( officially ) and in with OM. Didn't get through without a whole bunch of bickering. I think that she was going to make a fight over every issue so that she could say it was a bad experiance.
It will be a tough night for the kids....

Reaching,

I don’t have any positive pro-marriage advice as such. Nor any MB based advice.

BUT your really have to take the positives out of her actions. There is nothing unexpected in what she is doing. She is basically digging her grave deeper and deeper.

She was already having a blatant affair in front of you and the children. She has deserted the kids to go on a trip with OM. Now she bickers about lamps and pots while moving out to be with OM – while deserting her children.

Journal this. Document it. Talk to your attorney about how and if this can be used.

Your WW sounds way deep in the fog. Maybe she won’t come up for breath until she realizes what the divorce is going to cost her.

I am sorry but at this point DO whatever gives you and your children an opportunity at a safe future independent of a selfish, entitled, abandoning wife and mother. If that means Ding her then do it IMO.

This is not unexpected, She really has not been at home for weeks - staying at hotel with OM - only coming home when convenient with her fantasy schedule.

I have not posted in last couple of weeks because of atty. advice. Now that she has moved in with OM I am in a better position for primary custody. Its been a waiting game but in the mean time it has been emotionaly draining.

I still don’t understand why WW hasn’t filed yet.
I have mixed feelings about filing for D myself.
I don’t think anything else is going to cut through the fog and I’m not sure that I care at this point.

Another bad day -- WW came back for more stuff -- gets kids all upset.

My DD just told me that she felt that it was all her fault because she was friends with the OM's daughter. She is so confused and torn up --

Why can't WSes see what kind of pain they cause everybody?

WW was over again this morning to take more stuff.
Now she wants me to see the good side of OM ??
Found out that he has not filed for a D from his W either. They just plan on moving in together.
I again gave her a way back, but she still isn't intrested, says its gone too far. She still wants to have lunch once in a while though.. and will still help with the kids if asked. This isn't fog this is MUD.

What does your attorney say about plan B?

When will she be done moving out? It seems like she is in control and can do anything and everything whenever she wants even if it destroys you and your kids.

When do you create some boundaries and protect you and your children? It appears she is destroying both and it just continues.

I surely couldn't hanlde this. You and the kids are way too important to be treated so poorly. I would take action to get control of my house and my children so they were cared for the way you all deserve. She needs to stay out as long as she is involved in the A.

There is no good side to the lying, cheating, POS. Tell her that, protect your children from the idiot and WW sooner than later.

Time to make your WW feel some consequences. If she has moved out, I would get with your attorney and change the locks so she can't take any more stuff. I would plan B her in a heartbeat. Plan B plus the prospect of losing her children might just wake her up after a few months.

Plan B is coming with the D papers and custody suit.
Attorney suggested not plan Bing till after she moved out, and custody hearing. Feels that court will be more willing to give me fiull custody only if I show willingness to allow access to children, If I plan B now atty. feels I will jepordize full custody.

Now that she is officially moved out everything can proceed.

Can't leagally change locks unless restaing order in place - doesn't mean I won't, After all I don't know who may have access after all these years and it just might be prudent to change locks for general puposes ;-), just because WW is not aroiund to colect new key is not my fault.

I've heard it before on this board that D is not necessarily the end. In my case I think that it is the only way -- no matter what the outcome...

I am not happy about that.. but the LB is on empty.

Heavy dose of Reality.

Yesterday I gave WW the news that I have sued her for full custody of children and divorce. This really hit her hard. She brokedown for the first time and admitted that everything in fantasy land is not always good. All the stuff that anyone on the outside could see all along.
heres a short list

Yeah we live together but we hardly see each other anymore.
My friends don't come to see me.
I have no home
my kids don't like me anymore
I don't have any money
All we have is a couch and a toaster oven. (I'm sure they have more - like a bed)
I can't believe YOU would do this to me.
His kids call him all the time mine won't talk to me.
His kids stay over. ( she still hasn't even told us where their shacked up)

I never like to see anyone crying but in a strange kind of way I was happy that something was actually getting to her.

I still gave her ways back, I told her this doesn't have to be the end and that I would be happy to stop the process. She didn't bite on that one though.

Not a happy day...

How long is your waiting period/cooling off period for D in your state?

Of course she's not biting on anything you say. They almost never do. Plan B letter time - lay it out there for her to read. She'll read it. She'll see the path home.

Love Bank is empty? That's one of the reasons to Plan B. Will she clear her fog and come back? Only she knows and can make that decision - if she doesn't, you should Plan B to get yourself prepared.


LOL.

Ok.

"I have trouble believing that you would sacrifice all the things you just mentioned for purely selfish reasons, and yet you did. After all that has happened, I have still chosen to accept and value a relationship with you. You know the way home, please take it."

Jay

Cooling off time in our state is 90 days.

I am sure that I need to be in plan B - But atty. says if I am to get primary custody I must play like a good boy until hearing.

I had lunch with a friend today and he said something interesting to me. He said that he was sure something is going on that neither one of us knows about, he thinks his wife knows but is unwilling to tell him.

I'm tired of the games .. I want to take my ball and go home!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I'm pretty sure the end is near.
WW won't even talk to me anymore - says we have nothing to talk about.
I guess she didn't like being sued for custody.

I read someones post a while back went something like --
If WS is still willing to have verbal fights, lie, and make excuses, they still care enough to fight. When they stop fighting/giving excuses they don't care anymore.

I guess thats where we are.

Don't worry about her right now. She is in la la land and sees no way out (we know there is one).

Protect the children from WW and OM's actions, values, beliefs and protect yourself. The divorce paper is just that a piece of paper and when and if she comes to her senses and is willing to be remorseful, take ownership for her actions, repent and do the work necessary to become a good mate then and if you are still interested or available the two of you can talk.

The war has begun!!

I guess I can start posting again, doesn't much matter who sees now.


My only hope for this marriage now is to wait the affair out. Marriage was the wrong word because this one is done.
Maybe relationship would be a better term.

Just a quick update - WW has been living with OM for about 6 weeks now, she only sees our children when its convienient with her, and the kid are not to receptive.

I filed for custody and D couple of weeks ago, since it was obvious that she was not leaving OM. Started a modified combo plan B / plan A thing. I couldnt go totally dark because of custody issues.Could'nt send the plan b letter on atty advice but WW knew why I was having little contact with her.

After trying to discuss, and failing, to produce some sort of custody agreement between us. WW has turned into some person that I cant believe is the same person as my w. I thought she was different before but I could still see some some parts of my W in there - not now.

She really wants to make this as difficult and expensive as possible - she has admitted that she really doesnt want the kids and I could keep them most of the time but she wont agree to anything less than 50-50. because she does'nt want to be seen as giving up her kids - and in the process calling me the bad guy for trying to take her kids from her.

Again I noticed that it was all about her, I look at it as the kids losing - WW views it as her losing.

This can't end quick enough and I cant wait to go totally dark.

I sometimes think that I must be the psycho one because I think that sometime in the future she will face reality and want to come back - thats not the psycho part.-
I somehow still want her back - I must need my head examined!!!!

sorry for the nonsense - had to vent

Of course she did. See if she loses custody of the children then she is painted as the adulterous, selfish, piece of crap that WW and WH's are. It cements it for everyone to see. Mine did the same thing and is now appealing the court's custody ruling for the same reason. She can't bear to be painted for who she has become. That messes up the whole fantasy you see.

Has anyone thought about writing a book on all of the crazy things waywards do?

Today WW showed up at house and said she was moving back in!
I Know she is just doing this to push my buttons and because someone told her to do so because of custody hearing coming up.

She hung around for couple of hours then went back to OM. She said she will be back later.

It astonishes me how diluted they are in their thinking, does she think that coming back to the house and disturbing the calm that has been in the house since she left is going to help??

Hang in there. Things will get better, I promise you that. I hope you are keeping a journal of when she shows up and how often she takes the kids.

I know it doesn't feel like it, but it is actually a good thing that they are living together. Nothing like reality to end the fantasy.

Read my earlier post as to why she is doing this....

Also, if you don't already have an attorney get one fast. she is trying to manipulate the system by moving back in to avoid abandonment issues, yet her addiction will not let her stay away from OM so she is still going to see him even though she knows it hurts her chances for custody.

Use your attorney, document her coming and goings, whose parenting the children, giving baths, playing with them, preparing meals, feeding them, etc.

HP,

Theres no question about who's taking care of the kids, WW has other things on her mind.

Atty. is involved, I'm sure that her atty. has probably advised her to move back in. I am still awaiting a call back from mine this morning.

And, Yes everything gets documented - The file is getting quite large.

I would think that this kind of irrational behavior would work against her in court. Personally I think she would be better off just trying to be a good mother, rather than trying to prove something.


On the bright side
DD11 has half day of school today, going to take her to get new softball glove. Season practice starts tomorrow. Thats good, gives DD something else to distract her from situation.

Latest update.

We had our custody hearing on friday, No agreement was made, so the custody master entered a temporary order.
I recieved primary custody, WW visitation was limited to her only without Om. Her request to get the kids passports was denied.

I guess this was considered a win for me.

WW was pretty upset, reality sucks!!

She stopped in today to pick up DD and was nice as could be, I'm not sure wether she is seeing the light or just putting on a show now..

Plan B is in Limbo right now I'm hoping that maybe WW and I can work something out with out making the lawyers even richer. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

That is EXCELLENT news! Sometimes when they don't get primary custody, they have to face the fact that their affair is causing problems. Hope you have taken some time to relax, and pat yourself on the back.

Time for more updates.

I 'm not sure about how many mistakes I have made in the last 2 weeks but I'm sure there have been plenty.

WW suddenly took an interest in the kids after the custody hearing, that only lasted for about two weeks, during which time she was attempting to be nice.
After she realized that she was still not going to get her way things turned sour again. No agreements were made about settling the divorce actions. The A continues.

After I shut her out and back to plan B again for about a week, she actually came and apologized to me for hurting me, It was a very emotional experience, but still the A continues.
She agreed to most of my terms for a divorce settlement.

She again was nice for a week,

This brings us to Mothers Day, I guess she expected me to set up something special for her on Mothers Day, I on the other hand had made very nice arrangements for MY mother.

I guess back to plan B, In hind sight I should have never stopped being dark.

I had gotten to a point in plan B where I was comfortable, right now I'm back to all kinds of mixed up feelings.

Probably best to go to Plan B. Otherwise you might lose your love for her. It was nice that she apologized, but since the affair continues, it means very little. My ex was always apologizing, and continuing the affair. Watch for actions, not words.