I think the best way to influence her in this situation is to present your own needs assertively. If you can present your needs in such a way that demonstrates your strength rather than neediness, she may realize that having needs is different than being needy. Model this and eventually it will take the stigma out of it.
I try - guess I'm still missing the mark.
Again, I think this is about playing a different role and that means a drastic shift in priorities. It's not reasonable yet there is a certain significance to it. The question "you did it for him, why can't you for our marriage" must pop up in your mind a lot.
Yep
She denies it to you probably because she's trying to convince herself. And the why behind all of this is really her issue.
Yes, and I believe she recognizes its an issue, but she usually just tries to bury it, hoping it will go away.
I agree that it might be very good to do what Muddling suggested and take more of a dominant personality behavior in what you need/expect/will or will not settle for. I'm not saying it as well as he did, but you get the drift. And not in an agressive manner but a manner that gives her the impression that she could very well lose you if she doesn't get back on the train.
I do this quite a bit. Its hard for me to describe, but as soon as it seems to be meaningful, she trumps me with a take it or leave it offer. Which doesn't frustrate me or scare me, it just seems we are so close to a resolution one way or the other, I end up saying okay if you just need a little more time.
I think you have fallen into the trap of what John Gray calls "role reversal." This is when the husband is constantly wanting to talk about the relationship and his "feelings" and such (just like you) and the woman is more like a man and is shut down and doesn't want to talk feelings or relationship and just wants things to go on as is.
We had fallen into this, but I recognized it. I really don't bring it up constantly. I "talk" much more about it on these boards than I do at home.
Deep down she "longs" to let go and feel like a woman, but she can't feel that from a man who appears needy and sensitive because she views that as weakness. This is how she subconsciously feels about you because you are constantly wanting to talk about the relationship and YOUR feelings and YOUR needs and such.
Its a good insight and believe me I know. I have worked very hard to break this. In fact early on she said, "I couldn't divorce you because I didn't think you could take care of yourself". She has told me she was wrong to think that, and I have proven that I can take care of myself just fine.
You seem to be having a problem accepting her for who she is and seem to be wanting and hoping she will change.(You have said before that she has always been this way) You will probably wait for the rest of your life if you expect that. Your best bet is to stop all emotional talk, (you are on your feminine side, which is a turnoff to an independent woman) and start to make more male friends and find a couple of outside interests of your own that she sees you looking forward to. Let her sit home while you are pursuing your own interests. This could possibly get her to come around somewhat.
This is not the case. Actually this topic alludes to one of the things that make me most mad about all of this. Before the A, I accepted my FWW as exactly who she was. We POJA'd just about everything. We POJA'd ourselves into a detached M. The thought that runs through my mind is that we had a deal about what our M was going to be. Now, I've learned a lot, I know I had my faults, I know the M we agreed to have was less than ideal. But we were rolling along with it. We had a marriage that was more like a business partnership. And we both agreed to it. I knew I was sacrificing something, but I thought I was giving her something she wanted. I now know she felt she was sacrificing to give me something I wanted. Then she had the A and she broke the deal. At that time I realized that who I thought my FWW was, who I had accepted was not her at all. She was trying to be what she thought I thought she should be, and it was making her miserable. And the funny thing is, she had no idea what I thought she should be, because she wouldn't ask. I don't want her to change, I want her to be herself. I want to find out if we like each other.
At some point you really do have to ask yourself (and give yourself an honest answer) if this IS WHO SHE REALLY IS? AND.. Is THIS what I really really want?
Don't know - Don't know who she is yet.
Not a thing in the world to be scared of.
Never been scared of anything. Well, okay, clowns scare me a little <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />