I've been with my husband for nearly 7 years now, married for 5. I am only 20 years old. We have two children ages 3 1/2 and 2 1/2. My husband is and always has been very emotional and verbally abusive and violent. He has symptoms that make me believe he may be bipolar. Throughout our time together, I have always tried to keep our marriage together and always thought that I could "change" him.

Recently, I feel like I have given up. I have been having affair for a little over a month with someone who has been a mutual friend of mine and my husbands for about 6 months. I wanted to tell my husband about this, to be honest since the beginning. Earlier this week, I told him about the intensity of the emotional side of the relationship. He handled it better than I expected at the moment. His moods change drastically though. One moment he is overly-affectionate yet completely willing to communicate. The next he is angry and making violent physical threats and saying there is no chance for us.

I'm not even sure that I am in love with my husband anymore. I will always love and care for him as a family member and the father of my children, but I'm not sure if it is possible to fall back in love with him, especially when I'm in love with someone else. Part of me wants so badly for our family to not end in divorce. On the other hand, I am not happy. I know that regardless of anything else, I need therapy. I need to sort my feelings out. I nned to figure out what is right.

For now, I thought I would ask for other's advice.
Can anyone help?

Okay, first of all....YOU ARE NOT IN LOVE with a person that you have been having an affair with for ONE MONTH!!!!!!
You are experiencing the feelings that an affair causes. They are very much like when you first met your husband, made love the first time, kissed the first time....That is what you are feeling, not love.

You will feel little to nothing for your husband as long as you are having your needs met in an affair relationship. He will be able to do no right.

You are right about counseling.

Whether you stay and work on your M or not, you should get out of this affair first and foremost even if it means being alone with children and working on yourself.

True, the feelings may be largely due in part to infatuation. I will continue to keep an open mind.

Erica...sorry you are here. You need to end this relationship, and sever contact with this OM forever. This also means telling your husband. You need to think hard about this; you are cheating with a man that is a mutual friend your husband. What kind of "friend" is this? Do really think you could ever have a trusting or meaninful realtionship with someone that has this kind of moral compass?

Erica,

1) Stop your affair. You have no clue how much this hurts your BH. I know there were many days while my WW continued her A that I wanted to commit suicide. What you are doing is wrong regardless of whether you think it makes you happy. Robbing a bank so that you have lots of money may feel good as well, but it is immoral, and will only bring you pain when the consequences catch up to you.

2) Get to marriage counseling. If you BH refuses to go, start making changes by yourself and try and start meeting his ENs without LBing. Usually a change in yourself with bring out a change in your spouse.

This is true.

You can fall back in love with your husband. People on this board have done it.

Can you give us more details on the 'violent' part of your H? Does he hit/beat you or the kids? When did he do this last?

Do you have family nearby that you could take the kids and go stay with? Is there a shelter you could go to?

None of this makes having an affair right...it's not an excuse...and you should still tell your H. But if your safety or that of your children is in jeopardy, you should be very careful how you proceed.

Okay... again... some people are missing the big picture here.
The FIRST priority is for Erica to get herself to a safe place. Yes, she needs to end the affair... but the moment she tells her H in her current situation she is going to put her life at risk.
This conversation needs to occur in a public setting with a third party present after she has moved her and the children out of the house.
You need to get counseling and you need to insist that your H get counseling for his violent tendancies. You and your children are at risk!
NUMBER ONE priority is safety for you and the children. Erica.. you need to start acting with class and integrity as far as the OM is concerned. He needs to be dumped immediately. But more importantly you need to start acting like a mother that wants to protect her family. Putting them and you in harms way is not doing that.
Call a local shelter or a relative that you can stay with. Your H should NOT know where you are staying. Also... look into... do not do it yet... filing a protection from abuse order. YOU NEED TO BE SAFE.
I have carried the bodies of people that thought they could manage an abuser... including a woman that was 9 month pregnant and a family of 6...yes, 6.
Marriage building comes in a distant second here.... please make yourself safe.

Erica,

Please listen to what mkeverydaycnt said and get out of that house with your kids. No one should be in your postion.

Are you still here with us?

We care about you and your kids.

Hi erica and welcome, though I'm sorry you find yourself having to be here.


I'll begin here. The FIRST thing you need to do is to get safe. You mention emotional and verbal abuse but also mention violence. What does this mean to you? How would you describe it?

Have you done research on bi-polar? It's a hideously difficult disease to manage and live with... ESPECIALLY undiagnosed and un-or-under medicated.


You already know that you must end the affair, but I will reitterate that you must be safe. I wouldn't tell your H until you are in the presense of a therapist, minister or social worker. He DOES need to know, it is his right, but do not put yourself in danger telling him.


This is news that NOBODY handles well. As a BS, your heart, life and soul has just been ripped apart. You have NO IDEA how much infidelity damages a betrayed spouse... no matter what kind of person they are.


Okay, so he makes threats to whom? You? The children? Has he ever gone further than threats?


Your situation is not unique. Almost all ... as in: ALL... wayward spouses say the EXACT same thing. It's almost embarrassing. And you're right, it would be almost impossible to fall back in love with him when you are giving all your attention to nurturing the affair partner.


Just be aware that many therapists are not pro-marriage and will encourage you to simply divorce. Especially if there is abuse... but I still believe that you need to FIRST get safe... and THEN think about your marriage...

Erica,
I am married to a very gentle, loving, kind man who rarely raises his voice, has rarely called me a name or said mean things to me, and NEVER raised a hand to me or my daughter, punched walls, etc.....

UNTIL the day he found a text message on my phone and I had to confess I had been having an A. That moment so overwhelmed this gentle, loving man, that he did and said things completely out of character for him (he did not hit me).

Erica, please, get safe. Get your children safe. Call on the reserve of courage and strength that it takes to bring children into the world and get safe.

When you have a safe place and time (as MEDC described), then you can tell him about the A.

I'm sure my H thought he was living with Jekyll/Hyde as I was his W one minute and the WW another. But there was transformation like I have never seen before on D-Day. And he has always been predictable and treated me like a fragile china doll, his princess.

Please. Get safe first. Today.

~LS

Is your H also 20?

No, he is 24.

Is the advice you are being given here regarding your safety getting through to you???

Okay, so I don't feel as though everyone completley understands the situation. Although my husband has been MILDLY physically abusive in the past, it has not happened in a considerable amount of time. The threats he makes are that he will will physically harm the OM. I understand that my H is hurt, but I also have been hurt the entire relationship. That does not make my actions justifiable, but it's not like I'm the one who is causing this. I've tried and tried, day in and day out, he hasn't. We've been emotionally divorced, as I like to say, for about a year.

I would also like to add that my H is aware of the emotional side of the A. Because of his issues, I knew that if I told him about the sex (which only happened twice) he wouldn't be able to handle it in a healthy way.

There is NO such thing as Mild physical abuse and the fact that you say that worries me. Please call an abuse hotline in your area and ask for their advice. They will know how to best guide you. In the event that your H finds out that his wife has screwed around... you DO NOT know how a man like this will react. I have seen it before... you cannot manage this on your own. Please seek out help... at the very least you will be armed with information.
In my old line of work... mildly physically abusive got your arrested.

ERICA:

This:

MILDLY physically abusive in the past

Run, I repeat, Run to the nearest shelter.

MILDY can become HORRIBLY in a flash.

MEDC is right. You need to get you and your children safe.

You are only 20, but that does not mean you need to suffer Physical Abuse.

Thank you for answering my question.

I had a concern about child sexual predation [I have seen some examples of this lately and frankly someone who reports to have been married at 15 sets off a few red flags].

Having more or less addressed it [it IS a significant gap particularly at that extremely young age] I can move on.

I agree with MEDC that there is no such thing as MILD ABUSE.

If something qualifies as abuse then it is automatically DISqualified as mild in nature..follow me?

So here is what I would like you to consider.

Consider that your marriage is in bad shape, is very unhealthy, and may not be repairable.

For sure I would advise you to seek a shelter and counsel.

With this in mind it is almost impossible that your relationship with OM is any different...even if it were not an affair it would STILL almost certainly be sick and rooted in mutual illness.

People who are in abusive relationships are sick.

People who are sick attract other sick people.

That's just the way it goes.

The fact that it IS an affair makes it certain that it is in fact a sick relationship that does not recognize or respect boundaries and is inherently abusive [whether you care or not, whether you FEEL married or not your affair is abusive to your spouse and your children].

So what we have is 3 abusors who definitely need to be separated.

You and OM need to separate forever whether you feel in love or not. There is no hope that this will become something healthy. Ever.

You and your H may or may not be able to reconcile the marriage but I would personally err on the side of caution and make the road back long and narrow.

It is very important to understand that you do not choose between your H and OM.

It is not a default. Not either or.

You can and may very well need to walk away from BOTH.

After reading this you will probably feel angry and defensive.

You will want to rationalize.

You will want to follow your feelings.

If you really want to get well and see what life looks like without abuse and addiction [affairs are addictions] you will have to choose to be the master of your feelings rather than be ruled by them.

I'm not saying you won't have them...I'm saying they can't save you and CAN mislead you if you allow them to.

I first off want to say that I am thankful for everone's care and concern. I am not angry or defensive about anything I have read, I am trying to be as open-minded as possible. I know that choosing between these two people is not an option. After reading everything that everyone has written, I think I need time alone and to heal before I get invloved in any other relationships. I need to focus on my children, school, and work. As far as me going to a shelter, I do find that a little difficult. I cannot remove myself and my children out of their bedrooms to live in that kind of environment when I don't feel like my situation is that severe. Maybe I need to think about that more though?

I'd also like to add that I think the reason my H and I have grown apart through the years is because I have become less of a sicker person. I have overcome many obstacles in my life, psychologically as well. I'm not as sick as I once was, as I was when I met my H.

Erika,

Having an affair is not healthy...it's living in fantasy...

Do you really want to hurt your children by going through multiple relationships...replacing people...which tells you, that you are replaceable? When you're not? Nor is your BH?

Why not stay in this marriage, learn your boundaries, match them to your standards, and know that your power and limits? Boundary enforcements...seeing them clearly, progressively and predetermining them...will tell you if moving to a battered women's shelter is healthy...it's not the first or the third step...it only comes after you know who you are, and you live up to NOT doing what you do not allow others to do to you.

Balance.

Affairs are abuse, too. They are. They are a huge passive-aggressive act against your spouse. Spouses don't grow apart...each choose to not be present, aware and honoring themselves, their partners nor the marriage. All choice...you can choose differently.

What are you healing and why aren't you offering your part to heal your BH?

I'm confused.

Do you want to redeem your destructive choices? Do you want to amend?

To be healthy, choose to live from truth...so that your boundaries are not reactions...they are healthy choices you make. And tell truth...to yourself...and others...and listen to your own mind, body and spirit...discover who you really are and share who you are with your BH.

Marriage is NOT completing one another...which tells each of you that you lack, aren't whole, when you are, and he is...Marriage is two whole people committed to sharing with each other, side by side, for a lifetime.

Is OM married? Did you amend to his wife? BF? Have you stopped seeing him, hearing from him...putting him out of your thoughts so in a short time, you can have clarity?

LA

I know MEDC is going to string me up for this, but these are the exact words my WW used to justify her A. She thought I wasn't trying, but I was. The whole time I felt that she wasn't trying, but she thought she was. My WW and I were emotionally divorced for about 2 months. That doesn't mean things can't change.

What do you mean by mildly abusive? I'm not proud of myself, but I would consider my actions to be mildly abusive in the past. I've screamed at my WW before, called her nasty names, grabbed her, and even slapped her a couple times. I feel horrible for it. She was always the instigator, screaming at me, punching me, kicking me in the nuts, breaking glasses, slapping me. I never left a mark on her, but I know that doesn't excuse my actions. My WW and I both need counseling, and I have been going to MC and IC. I just want you to realize that two wrongs don't make a right.

mild abuse is like being mildly pregnant.

If you did these things to me, one of us would be in jail and it would probably be me.

[quote]I just want you to realize that two wrongs don't make a right.[quote]

You need to realize it too.

[quote] She was always the instigator[quote]


It's good that you are aware that you need help. I hope you get it and I wish you the best.

I'm glad you are concerned about me. Like I said, I realized that my W's actions did not justify my behavior. I haven't even raised my voice at her since D-day, and she carried on her A in front of me for three and a half months. She was always much more abusive towards me than vice versa. She could never hurt me, but I refuse to reciprocate her abuse any more. I don't even know if it was abuse. If you wife tries to grab your nuts and squeeze, is it abuse if you grab her and hold her down to protect yourself while you call her a crazy *****, or should I have just walked away? I will just walk away from now on, but she hasn't gotten physical with me since I exposed her A. I apologized to her and I'll apologize to all women who were abused for my actions. I admit what I did. I'm never going to do it again. What else do you want me to say? That being said, I will still call someone out if they try and use that to justify their A. My wife punched me, kicked me, called me names, and broke our fine crystal, but I never fooled around on her.

I think what your wife did was abusive, I think restraining her but not perpetrating any more violence is self-defense. (Calling her a crazy***** probably doesn’t help the situation at all though, even if it’s true). I once had a boyfriend that would say the meanest, most hateful things to me and in my immature, impulsive way, I would go at him swinging. Even when I sucker punched him in the face, he never hit me; he did however pin me to a wall by my throat. What I did was abuse, I think what he did (in response) was self-defense. It’s one thing to protect yourself and another to further the violence.

I don’t see that Erica was trying to use her husband’s violence to justify her affair; it looks like she was just giving background information. She clearly knows it’s wrong and is struggling with how to make things right. She should be supported in that and not further beat up (by 2x4’s).

I hope everything works out for you Jim.

Jim... no one but you has brought up the affair being justified by abuse. Everyone is on the same page about that. If you have some guilt that you need to work out concerning what you feel may have driven your wife to act out... I am here to listen on another thread.
I will tell you that you did not describe mild abuse at all. Not according to me and not according to the law. If YOU were defending yourself... it is not abuse... if you slapped her... or she you at any other time other than self defense (and only one of you can make this claim) then you have assaulted her and should have been arrested.
I am happy to hear that you are working on your issues... but there is NO MINOR ABUSE.
Jim... perhaps this sitch is a little too close to home for you to be able to offer much to her situation. You give great advice, but I think you need to evaluate if this is the thread for you.

And BTW Jim... any woman grabs my nuts in a less than friendly way... she's gonna get clocked! That is self defense in the eyes of the law.

I don't regard self defense as abuse either.

My H is almost twice my weight...9 inches taller than me and has both military and martial arts experience.

Just because he is bigger and stronger doesn't mean he has to stand there and take a beating..I hate that double standard.

If a woman complained that her H attempted to crush or harm her genitals during a dispute the outcry would shake the heavens.

This is causing all sorts of triggers for me. Firstly, I'd like to say, Erica, I agree completely with everyone who has said an A isn't the answer and that needs to stop. (I get the feeling that it already has stopped).

It's not unusual at all for a BH to THREATEN physical violence on the OM. My H actually did that when he called the OM's wife. My H has never lifted a finger to anyone in his life and I can't remember hearing him raise his voice, even after dday. That's a different issue from a man who is emotionally and physically violent just "because". I was watching Dr Phil the other night and the H's excuse was "she just pushes my buttons."

However, it is my DD that this is triggering me about. My DD went out with her EX b/f from when she was 15 to when she was 21. They lived together for a year before she finally had enough and moved out. He was very emotionally abusive, to what extent I don't know, because I only heard edited information from my DD. I do know he yelled at her for things like leaving a spot of jam on the bench. He told her she was unattractive and stupid (even at the dinner table in front of us) and I could see her starting to believe it.

One night while drunk he told my H to f*** off and that was the catalyst for her ending the relationship. (Thank God - and I mean that) He was no longer welcome in our house after that and we made it very clear to her how we felt about him.

I know that all the time she was with him her self esteem and happiness, even the way she dressed and looked were awful. She was always angry at the world and hiding her emotions. To see her eyes shining with happiness now (wonderful new b/f) and the way she looks now (like a normal attractive 26 year old) makes me very happy.

There was so little I could do for her when she was in the toxic relationship. I worried and worried about her but any slight suggestion she leave him was met with "no I won't". He was all she'd known in the way of a relationship and she couldn't move out of her comfort zone. For a start, she didn't think anyone else would even be interested in her. BTW she's college educated, very attractive, smart and funny but we never saw any of that till she got out of the relationship.

Listen, the title of her thread is "Can I love my husband again," and in my mind, I'm not seeing enough advice geared toward how she can love her husband again, that's all. The thread title is not, "What do I need to do to get my husband to stop abusing me." I think she came here to stop her affair. Let's help her stop her A at the same time we are helping her with the abuse.

Jim 2 x 4 incoming.

You really need to step back and look at your posts. This is a 20 year old girl that anyone here would be remiss to tell that she should follow MB advice without protecting herself. She cannot do the things necessary right now to save her M... since that would include informing an abuser of her affair. SHE shoudl as EVERYONE here has said stop her affair immediately... BUT the more pressing issue is safety when someone says they have been abused.

Your approach to this from your shout out forward was to 2 x 4 a woman that clearly said that abuse is a problem in her marriage. Either because of your experience or some reason I am unable to see right now... you are just being myopic concerning this thread. Marriage is NOT the most important thing that people need to deal with. It may be the main focus of this board Jim... but there are always other considerations. On top of that you are not reading peoples posts accurately if you think... as you have already said... that anyone here is justifying her affair.
That clearly has not been the case on this thread. Clearly, yet you accused someone of doing just that when she clearly said the affair was not okay.
What's up with you Jim? Again, I will say, you do not seem yourself.

In answer to her thread title...

Yes, Erika, you can love your H again.

I did.

End your A, establish NC, get through w/drawals and keep posting here.

~ Marsh

I don't have much time to read or post these days. I am my same old self, just as always. I don't cut waywards any slack. You say "clearly" the problem is the abuse in her marriage. I have yet to see her state any "clear" abuse. She vaguely references "mild abuse" but up to this point that is as far as she went. Even if there is abuse in her M, that doesn't justify her actions, but she has used it as a justification in a previous post. I can only talk about what I know. What I know is that the biggest problem in her M that I "clearly" see is that she is having sex with another man. If there is abuse, yes, that needs to be addressed as well, but the first thing she can do to help her M is to stop the A.

Erica...Can you please describe the symptoms that lead you to believe that you husband is Bipolar? I am familar with this Mental Illness, as my dad suffers from it...I assume that your husband is unmedicated, am I correct?



Who are these violent physical threats made against?

No matter what was going on, adultery is never the right answer, even when circumstances leave you especially vunerable...Let's see if we can come up with some other alternatives for you and your husband that will keep you both safe...

Mrs. W

hey - similiar situation - my estranged husband - has been physically violent to me as well as very emotionally abusive (calling me stupid, a "failure at everything" and so on, incuding days of silent treatment).

I'm almost 1 month out on a separation and it's been very, very hard - but I know it is what I have to do. I tried MB, and we did a year of counselling after he hit me hard enough to break my nose (and massive nose bleed), knock me over and briefly knock me out last year. Up until that point last year - any violence was what I would consider "minor" pushing, slapping, throwing things, hitting and not all the time - but a repeating pattern of about 4 less-minor incidents a year, a few smaller ones and a lot of verbal stuff. I have 5 kids - it is hard - but I'm doing it - getting in touch with resources, the change in my kids and even myself since he is out of the house has been amazing - no more kids screaming at night, I don't have night terrors and panic attacks - we all sleep through the night.

As for my estranged husband (legal speak here) - he has finally sought some help - (also previously undiagnosed bi-polar) and is finally on meds. Unfortunately he still blames everything on me and refuses anger management counselling. But at least he is getting treated for his mental illness.

The temptation to be involved with someone else to lean on is huge, huge - esp after YEARS of abuse and unmet emotional needs - I totally get that - I am dealing with that - the desire to find someone to help me feel better about myself...

BUT

I've been down that road before - I got involed with my current husband right after separated from my ex- husband - who I married at 19 years old and was also physically, verbally and even sexually abusive of me.

One abusive, toxic relationship is horrible to go through and horrid on your self esteem - but worse was the 2nd one - the person that I was depending on for my perception of myself coming out of my 1st abusive marriage - when he turnd on me and would say things like "no wonder he hit you - anyone would". What THAT did to me - was infinately worse.

As much as I want to find someone else to help me feel better and meet my needs - I have a lot of healing to do and 11 more months of separation to walk through before the divorce is final. You also need to find out for yourself that you are stronger than you think, you can leave him - in fact - if you leave him - he might actually get help. I was told by 2 professional already that the last incident when my ex was yelling at me that if he stayed wtih me he might kill me or himself or hurt the kids - that I should have called the cops then and he would have been forced into mental health treatment - it would have been the kinder thing really to do. Deal with the abuse - make an exit plan to leave.

If your husband wants to make it right - he has to work on himself, counselling, mental health treatment, anger management and be a whole healthy person first and then try and date you again. That's what my pastor told me about my husband but even then cautioned that I have to be very, VERY cautious about a reconciliation ever - it would have to be sustained change over a period of many months or many even years. So it is possible for you to love your husband again - but only if he does a huge amount of work when there has been physical abuse.

I'm NOT talking - where the woman attacks first here and the man acts in self-defense - in my case - I didn't even see it coming by my recollection wasn't even yelling or escalating.

You need to focus on getting safe and taking care of your kids and then healing yourself before you are able to look to another relationship.

You deserve to be in a relationship where you are treated with love and respect, you do and I do. But right now is not the time for that, not yet. Having been married at 19 to an abuser, separated and divorced at 22, married again into another abusive relationship at 23 and to be 31 with 5 kids going through another separation - I have the perspective to say that the judgement coming out of an abusive marriage is just not good enough to make good choices in a new relationship. It isn't - I ended up where I was before, if not worse.

Please take care and stay safe.

Erica...

I noticed that you still haven't come back to answer my questions regarding Bipolar Disorder and the physical threats...I still hope very much that you are still reading...

I just wanted to let you know that I am a FWW myself if you didn't figure that out from my signature-lol...with that being said, if you prefer to communicate quietly for the time being, I understand, and would be very glad to talk to you by email and/or phone...The place you now find yourself in is one that you really don't need to be alone in...I believe that I could help you, if you gave me the chance...Just know that it would be my pleasure to offer you whatever type support you need at this time...Even if it's in the form of a mild 2x4 to help you get on the right track...My email address is in my signature, and I sure hope that you will use it...Erica, things can and do get better!

Best,

Mrs. W

Erica,

If you are indeed dealing with bipolar you are dealing with a different animal and following MB principles exclusively may not work for you. If he is bipolar and unmedicated he can be very volatile. Especially if he finds out about OM. My H is bipolar. We found out about this a year ago and he is just now getting on the what the psych doc's think are correct meds (I am thinking otherwise). I had an EA. Everything here kept directing me to be radically honest with him about my feelings towards OM etc. Be an open book. In my situation when H found out about OM, I KNEW MB principles wouldn't work for me exclusively for because H would have very severely hurt OM. I don't mean a punch in the nose, I mean burning down his house, running him over with his car, I will also say that he has guns. My H has never been physical with me, but there were times after he found out about OM that I worried about that. Even now on medication I worry about possibly being the script for the next Lifetime Television movie should we D and I find someone else.

If you want, read through some of my thread http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post3189577 to know what crazy crap I've been dealing with. My advice would be to seperate from both of these men and get your thoughts together. There are multiple BPD questionaires online which should help alot in diagnosing this mental illness. I would also suggest maybe trying to get him to a psychiatrist. If it IS BPD, I wouldn't mess around with a family doctor, I would go straight to the pro's. I did see alot in your posts that reminded me of my H. It has been a very long, hard road for me. I've posted the exact same question here that you have. Can I love my husband again? For me, I'm still searching for that answer 2 years after my EA.