I know MEDC is going to string me up for this, but these are the exact words my WW used to justify her A. She thought I wasn't trying, but I was. The whole time I felt that she wasn't trying, but she thought she was. My WW and I were emotionally divorced for about 2 months. That doesn't mean things can't change.

What do you mean by mildly abusive? I'm not proud of myself, but I would consider my actions to be mildly abusive in the past. I've screamed at my WW before, called her nasty names, grabbed her, and even slapped her a couple times. I feel horrible for it. She was always the instigator, screaming at me, punching me, kicking me in the nuts, breaking glasses, slapping me. I never left a mark on her, but I know that doesn't excuse my actions. My WW and I both need counseling, and I have been going to MC and IC. I just want you to realize that two wrongs don't make a right.

mild abuse is like being mildly pregnant.

If you did these things to me, one of us would be in jail and it would probably be me.

[quote]I just want you to realize that two wrongs don't make a right.[quote]

You need to realize it too.

[quote] She was always the instigator[quote]


It's good that you are aware that you need help. I hope you get it and I wish you the best.

I'm glad you are concerned about me. Like I said, I realized that my W's actions did not justify my behavior. I haven't even raised my voice at her since D-day, and she carried on her A in front of me for three and a half months. She was always much more abusive towards me than vice versa. She could never hurt me, but I refuse to reciprocate her abuse any more. I don't even know if it was abuse. If you wife tries to grab your nuts and squeeze, is it abuse if you grab her and hold her down to protect yourself while you call her a crazy *****, or should I have just walked away? I will just walk away from now on, but she hasn't gotten physical with me since I exposed her A. I apologized to her and I'll apologize to all women who were abused for my actions. I admit what I did. I'm never going to do it again. What else do you want me to say? That being said, I will still call someone out if they try and use that to justify their A. My wife punched me, kicked me, called me names, and broke our fine crystal, but I never fooled around on her.

I think what your wife did was abusive, I think restraining her but not perpetrating any more violence is self-defense. (Calling her a crazy***** probably doesn’t help the situation at all though, even if it’s true). I once had a boyfriend that would say the meanest, most hateful things to me and in my immature, impulsive way, I would go at him swinging. Even when I sucker punched him in the face, he never hit me; he did however pin me to a wall by my throat. What I did was abuse, I think what he did (in response) was self-defense. It’s one thing to protect yourself and another to further the violence.

I don’t see that Erica was trying to use her husband’s violence to justify her affair; it looks like she was just giving background information. She clearly knows it’s wrong and is struggling with how to make things right. She should be supported in that and not further beat up (by 2x4’s).

I hope everything works out for you Jim.

Jim... no one but you has brought up the affair being justified by abuse. Everyone is on the same page about that. If you have some guilt that you need to work out concerning what you feel may have driven your wife to act out... I am here to listen on another thread.
I will tell you that you did not describe mild abuse at all. Not according to me and not according to the law. If YOU were defending yourself... it is not abuse... if you slapped her... or she you at any other time other than self defense (and only one of you can make this claim) then you have assaulted her and should have been arrested.
I am happy to hear that you are working on your issues... but there is NO MINOR ABUSE.
Jim... perhaps this sitch is a little too close to home for you to be able to offer much to her situation. You give great advice, but I think you need to evaluate if this is the thread for you.

And BTW Jim... any woman grabs my nuts in a less than friendly way... she's gonna get clocked! That is self defense in the eyes of the law.

I don't regard self defense as abuse either.

My H is almost twice my weight...9 inches taller than me and has both military and martial arts experience.

Just because he is bigger and stronger doesn't mean he has to stand there and take a beating..I hate that double standard.

If a woman complained that her H attempted to crush or harm her genitals during a dispute the outcry would shake the heavens.

This is causing all sorts of triggers for me. Firstly, I'd like to say, Erica, I agree completely with everyone who has said an A isn't the answer and that needs to stop. (I get the feeling that it already has stopped).

It's not unusual at all for a BH to THREATEN physical violence on the OM. My H actually did that when he called the OM's wife. My H has never lifted a finger to anyone in his life and I can't remember hearing him raise his voice, even after dday. That's a different issue from a man who is emotionally and physically violent just "because". I was watching Dr Phil the other night and the H's excuse was "she just pushes my buttons."

However, it is my DD that this is triggering me about. My DD went out with her EX b/f from when she was 15 to when she was 21. They lived together for a year before she finally had enough and moved out. He was very emotionally abusive, to what extent I don't know, because I only heard edited information from my DD. I do know he yelled at her for things like leaving a spot of jam on the bench. He told her she was unattractive and stupid (even at the dinner table in front of us) and I could see her starting to believe it.

One night while drunk he told my H to f*** off and that was the catalyst for her ending the relationship. (Thank God - and I mean that) He was no longer welcome in our house after that and we made it very clear to her how we felt about him.

I know that all the time she was with him her self esteem and happiness, even the way she dressed and looked were awful. She was always angry at the world and hiding her emotions. To see her eyes shining with happiness now (wonderful new b/f) and the way she looks now (like a normal attractive 26 year old) makes me very happy.

There was so little I could do for her when she was in the toxic relationship. I worried and worried about her but any slight suggestion she leave him was met with "no I won't". He was all she'd known in the way of a relationship and she couldn't move out of her comfort zone. For a start, she didn't think anyone else would even be interested in her. BTW she's college educated, very attractive, smart and funny but we never saw any of that till she got out of the relationship.

Listen, the title of her thread is "Can I love my husband again," and in my mind, I'm not seeing enough advice geared toward how she can love her husband again, that's all. The thread title is not, "What do I need to do to get my husband to stop abusing me." I think she came here to stop her affair. Let's help her stop her A at the same time we are helping her with the abuse.

Jim 2 x 4 incoming.

You really need to step back and look at your posts. This is a 20 year old girl that anyone here would be remiss to tell that she should follow MB advice without protecting herself. She cannot do the things necessary right now to save her M... since that would include informing an abuser of her affair. SHE shoudl as EVERYONE here has said stop her affair immediately... BUT the more pressing issue is safety when someone says they have been abused.

Your approach to this from your shout out forward was to 2 x 4 a woman that clearly said that abuse is a problem in her marriage. Either because of your experience or some reason I am unable to see right now... you are just being myopic concerning this thread. Marriage is NOT the most important thing that people need to deal with. It may be the main focus of this board Jim... but there are always other considerations. On top of that you are not reading peoples posts accurately if you think... as you have already said... that anyone here is justifying her affair.
That clearly has not been the case on this thread. Clearly, yet you accused someone of doing just that when she clearly said the affair was not okay.
What's up with you Jim? Again, I will say, you do not seem yourself.

In answer to her thread title...

Yes, Erika, you can love your H again.

I did.

End your A, establish NC, get through w/drawals and keep posting here.

~ Marsh

I don't have much time to read or post these days. I am my same old self, just as always. I don't cut waywards any slack. You say "clearly" the problem is the abuse in her marriage. I have yet to see her state any "clear" abuse. She vaguely references "mild abuse" but up to this point that is as far as she went. Even if there is abuse in her M, that doesn't justify her actions, but she has used it as a justification in a previous post. I can only talk about what I know. What I know is that the biggest problem in her M that I "clearly" see is that she is having sex with another man. If there is abuse, yes, that needs to be addressed as well, but the first thing she can do to help her M is to stop the A.

Erica...Can you please describe the symptoms that lead you to believe that you husband is Bipolar? I am familar with this Mental Illness, as my dad suffers from it...I assume that your husband is unmedicated, am I correct?



Who are these violent physical threats made against?

No matter what was going on, adultery is never the right answer, even when circumstances leave you especially vunerable...Let's see if we can come up with some other alternatives for you and your husband that will keep you both safe...

Mrs. W

hey - similiar situation - my estranged husband - has been physically violent to me as well as very emotionally abusive (calling me stupid, a "failure at everything" and so on, incuding days of silent treatment).

I'm almost 1 month out on a separation and it's been very, very hard - but I know it is what I have to do. I tried MB, and we did a year of counselling after he hit me hard enough to break my nose (and massive nose bleed), knock me over and briefly knock me out last year. Up until that point last year - any violence was what I would consider "minor" pushing, slapping, throwing things, hitting and not all the time - but a repeating pattern of about 4 less-minor incidents a year, a few smaller ones and a lot of verbal stuff. I have 5 kids - it is hard - but I'm doing it - getting in touch with resources, the change in my kids and even myself since he is out of the house has been amazing - no more kids screaming at night, I don't have night terrors and panic attacks - we all sleep through the night.

As for my estranged husband (legal speak here) - he has finally sought some help - (also previously undiagnosed bi-polar) and is finally on meds. Unfortunately he still blames everything on me and refuses anger management counselling. But at least he is getting treated for his mental illness.

The temptation to be involved with someone else to lean on is huge, huge - esp after YEARS of abuse and unmet emotional needs - I totally get that - I am dealing with that - the desire to find someone to help me feel better about myself...

BUT

I've been down that road before - I got involed with my current husband right after separated from my ex- husband - who I married at 19 years old and was also physically, verbally and even sexually abusive of me.

One abusive, toxic relationship is horrible to go through and horrid on your self esteem - but worse was the 2nd one - the person that I was depending on for my perception of myself coming out of my 1st abusive marriage - when he turnd on me and would say things like "no wonder he hit you - anyone would". What THAT did to me - was infinately worse.

As much as I want to find someone else to help me feel better and meet my needs - I have a lot of healing to do and 11 more months of separation to walk through before the divorce is final. You also need to find out for yourself that you are stronger than you think, you can leave him - in fact - if you leave him - he might actually get help. I was told by 2 professional already that the last incident when my ex was yelling at me that if he stayed wtih me he might kill me or himself or hurt the kids - that I should have called the cops then and he would have been forced into mental health treatment - it would have been the kinder thing really to do. Deal with the abuse - make an exit plan to leave.

If your husband wants to make it right - he has to work on himself, counselling, mental health treatment, anger management and be a whole healthy person first and then try and date you again. That's what my pastor told me about my husband but even then cautioned that I have to be very, VERY cautious about a reconciliation ever - it would have to be sustained change over a period of many months or many even years. So it is possible for you to love your husband again - but only if he does a huge amount of work when there has been physical abuse.

I'm NOT talking - where the woman attacks first here and the man acts in self-defense - in my case - I didn't even see it coming by my recollection wasn't even yelling or escalating.

You need to focus on getting safe and taking care of your kids and then healing yourself before you are able to look to another relationship.

You deserve to be in a relationship where you are treated with love and respect, you do and I do. But right now is not the time for that, not yet. Having been married at 19 to an abuser, separated and divorced at 22, married again into another abusive relationship at 23 and to be 31 with 5 kids going through another separation - I have the perspective to say that the judgement coming out of an abusive marriage is just not good enough to make good choices in a new relationship. It isn't - I ended up where I was before, if not worse.

Please take care and stay safe.

Erica...

I noticed that you still haven't come back to answer my questions regarding Bipolar Disorder and the physical threats...I still hope very much that you are still reading...

I just wanted to let you know that I am a FWW myself if you didn't figure that out from my signature-lol...with that being said, if you prefer to communicate quietly for the time being, I understand, and would be very glad to talk to you by email and/or phone...The place you now find yourself in is one that you really don't need to be alone in...I believe that I could help you, if you gave me the chance...Just know that it would be my pleasure to offer you whatever type support you need at this time...Even if it's in the form of a mild 2x4 to help you get on the right track...My email address is in my signature, and I sure hope that you will use it...Erica, things can and do get better!

Best,

Mrs. W

Erica,

If you are indeed dealing with bipolar you are dealing with a different animal and following MB principles exclusively may not work for you. If he is bipolar and unmedicated he can be very volatile. Especially if he finds out about OM. My H is bipolar. We found out about this a year ago and he is just now getting on the what the psych doc's think are correct meds (I am thinking otherwise). I had an EA. Everything here kept directing me to be radically honest with him about my feelings towards OM etc. Be an open book. In my situation when H found out about OM, I KNEW MB principles wouldn't work for me exclusively for because H would have very severely hurt OM. I don't mean a punch in the nose, I mean burning down his house, running him over with his car, I will also say that he has guns. My H has never been physical with me, but there were times after he found out about OM that I worried about that. Even now on medication I worry about possibly being the script for the next Lifetime Television movie should we D and I find someone else.

If you want, read through some of my thread http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post3189577 to know what crazy crap I've been dealing with. My advice would be to seperate from both of these men and get your thoughts together. There are multiple BPD questionaires online which should help alot in diagnosing this mental illness. I would also suggest maybe trying to get him to a psychiatrist. If it IS BPD, I wouldn't mess around with a family doctor, I would go straight to the pro's. I did see alot in your posts that reminded me of my H. It has been a very long, hard road for me. I've posted the exact same question here that you have. Can I love my husband again? For me, I'm still searching for that answer 2 years after my EA.