Post deleted by JustMichele

Michele, I am confused. You said in your first thread that he was not having an affair but you say here HE IS. Is he having an affair?

How many affairs has he had in the past? How many have you had? Did you find out why and address the issues that led to the affairs?

This is not your fault.

Your husband is a serial cheater.

You could meet his needs until he's blue in the fact and it ain't gonna fix his character defect. Only he can do that. This appears to be more of a lifesytle choice he, unilaterally, has made. He's only single between affairs...then he'll feign being in the marriage.

You don't sound very healthy right now. He has manipulated you into accepting way too much blame for this.

As it stands TODAY, this man is NOT a very good role model for your children.

You CAN still have a true recovery, but in these situations...even the good Dr. Harley finds it extremely difficult and unlikely. It's just too unhealthy an environment for YOU. YOU MATTER. What about YOUR needs?? Is this man capable of fulfilling your needs, exclusively, forever???

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - she NOT his girlfriend. She an adulterous OW. Who is she? Have they been exposed???

Post deleted by JustMichele

He is having an affair and that is why he is leaving, Michele. He is leaving so he can be free to carry on his affair without interference.

It appears he has fallen out of love and this is the usual result.


Who is the OW?

I agree with Mel, what may have been a potential, is now a possible (and definitely a probable). He's defensive about it....because he's guilty about it. Get some proof and expose this for what it is. Lots of people lose compatibility....but if there is someone waiting in the wings....suddenly that compatibility goes downhill fast.

Post deleted by JustMichele

Michele, you don't want to be a simpering idiot, but you do want to let him know that you do not agree with this seperation, will not COOPERATE with it, and are willing to correct the things in your marriage that made him unhappy. [if that is true, if you are not willing to meet his needs you must be honest about this]

You must sound like a BROKEN RECORD with those 3 points.

1. Do not agree with seperation
2. will not cooperate
3. are only willing to work on marriage

No wimpering, no whining, no lovebusters. Got that?

In the meantime, say nothing about the OW, but find out who she is. Hire a PI, put a GPS on his car, put a voice recorder in his car. YOU MUST FIND OUT WHO SHE IS. Subtly ask him the NAME of his new trainee and track her address. Track down her parents, etc in www.peoplefinder.com. Don't TELL him you suspect an affair until you have all the information.

If you have her cell phone #, you may be able to get her name from intellius.com via a reverse look up. A PI could more easily get ALL the information very quickly. But, you MUST quietly get this information if we are to be of any help to you here.

And let me explain why. The biggest threat to your marriage right is this affair. This is WHY your H is leaving you. Until that affair is busted up/ruined you will have no hope of meeting his needs in any successful measure. Your goal here is to interfere with this affair and hasten its death so you have a CHANCE.

The most successful way of ruining his affair is by exposing it. Affairs thrive on secrecy and when they are bbrought out into the open, it creates great conflict by ruining the FANTASY EFFECT. It forces the affairees to see how sleazy they look through the eyes of others. It causes them to DOUBT the wisdom of their actions. This is what you must do.

But, you cannot do this until you have all the FACTS. Getting these facts will help you win this battle. So, I don't care if you have to follow him yourself, you really have to find out what is going on here. AND QUICK.

Have you tried to do a reverse look up on her # at www.anywho.com?

He wasn't doing what I asked him to do regarding sex. I have asked him to get a vasectomy, for years. Even his best friend, who is helping him leave me, told both of us a couple of years ago that getting his done made a huge difference. I am positive he and his current girlfriend would not be having the passionate sex they are having if he didn't have it done. Not only would my husband not get one, but he wouldn't wear a condom most times, because he didn't like the way they felt. How would he expect me to give myself freely and completely enjoy it when I had a constant fear of getting pregnant? So unfair to me.


I do not understand this at all..

If you have a constant fear of being pregnant...then why wouldn't you have taken charge of that fear instead of powerstruggling for years his right to choose not to...have an invasive procedure...

(is there also some religious backing to his refusal...)

if you can choose not to have your tubes tied...and he accepts your choice...

why is his choice not to have surgery unfair to you....
and your choice fair?? since you are the one with fear great enough it inhibits you from a healthy loving sexual relationship with your husband...

I don't get that battle at all...

have you thought about at all about revisiting this issue..and perhaps apologizing and making amends for making YOUR issue his fault for years....

that would part of my plan A if I were you....

Ark

Whoaaa Nellie.....


Noooooooooooo. What led to YOUR affair and HIS is entitlement fueled by resentment, lack of boundaries, immoral and irrational decision making and selfishness. "The devil did not make you do it".

Now, if we can agree here, then you are getting great advice from those posting here but I did not want you to miss taking responsibility for your affair and your (50% max in most cases) behavior that has led to the marriage being where it is today. That to me is a jumping off point towards trying to save your M.

Post deleted by JustMichele

JM,

You have shown your courage by taking responsibility. Let's get to work on saving your M!

Post deleted by JustMichele

I would be concerned about STD's JM. If your WH is sleeping around with other women there is no telling what he could pick up and pass on to you. Huge concern.

I know that you feel this is a way to maintain intimacy and plan A him and it may be, but I question at what price should he give you a STD, worse yet a life threatening one.

Tough call. Wait on others to weigh in on this.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Post deleted by JustMichele

Michele, did you read my post? You must find out WHO the OW is. Even if you have to tail him yourself. Can you borrow money for a PI frm your parents?

Post deleted by JustMichele

It's not "paranoid" if its true. It's just being SMART. There is nothing "montrous" about catching your H having an affair. You have good reason to suspect there is an affair and you have an obligation to find out so you can protect yourself.

Figure out how to do this, Michele. Figure out where the "friend" lives. You have to figure it out. Take her cell phone # and submit it to intellius to see if they can get her name. Ask a friend to follow him. Put a GPS in his car.

Find out who she is, Michele.

Post deleted by JustMichele

I know what it is like to feel down. I am trying my best to hold on here just as you are.

Just keep talking here to me. I will be here, and I will listen.

Is there anything you can think of that will tell you more about what is going on? Just clear your mind for a few minutes, and close your eyes. If tehre is anything that will help you, it might just pop in your mind as you sit there.

Breathe deeply and try this.

Michele, if you can find out what is really happening here, there is hope. We can help you deal with this if we know what is really going on. I do think he is having an affair and getting that information can arm us to help you.

I do understand you are down; you are entitled. But don't let it stop you from strategizing. Have a good cry and then think of how you can find out the name and background of this OW. I smell an OW here, and that intel will help tremendously.

Post deleted by JustMichele

It is GOOD that he comes in the house right now. You WANT him to come there. Do your best to make sure your house is clean and inviting and that he feels VERY WELCOMED and WANTED there, ok? Plan A should serve to ATTRACT him back and this is part of that plan.

It would be nice to invite him over for dinner and have some pleasant family time. That is something the OW cannot offer him. This is an ADVANTAGE you have over her: HIS HOME and his children.


I LOVE THAT you did this!!! This is exactly the message you need to send him, that you are sorry you took him for granted and that if he comes home you will love him. That was PERFECT, Michele!

He feels "guilty" because he is doing something wrong. This feeling puts pressure on him and this is GOOD.

Now, find out who the OW is!!! Get to work, girl!

What do you mean by you are "just about there?" Just about where?

The comment you made was perfect!

I told my WH that three days after I found out. He may not have WANTED to hear it, but he heard it.

Little whispers. They also do wonders for your soul.

Cry when you need to. It makes you feel soooo much better. Cleanses your soul.

Post deleted by JustMichele

Yes, you will cry. For days.

I cried myself silly when my H first left our home. I had no clue why. He loved me? Why would he leave. I spent that week and a half all alone. Crying constantly. Then, I found out.

I was hysterical. Cried for three more days.

Then, I only cried at bedtime. Then every few days. Then, it was a couple of weeks.

I just cried (and I mean cried... not just tears welling up) for the first time in weeks. And, it felt good.

Why are you responsible? Your WH could have just had a discussion with you about what was wrong, and you two together could have made things better. What he did was horrible. It's not your fault. He made his bed.

Also, your daughter is right. Listen to her. Don't try and protect your WH from the kids. They should know and decide for themselves how they should treat him.

Maybe if your daughters go to him and say, "Hey! What you are doing is ruining our family" your WH may have a little bit of awakening to what he has done.

Don't be ashamed to cry. I dealt with all of this while still going to work. Wanna see awkward? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Post deleted by JustMichele

Why not just burn it and then you won't have to worry about that?

Michele, why aren't you on birth control?

Also, it might be very helpful if you considered getting on anti-depressants. Have you ever taken those? This is the devastating trauma a person can experience, so it might help to get on ADs.

justmichelle...

I am concerned that there is a lot emotional fall out from you dribbling down on to your children...

that there is a little too much confiding in them grownup issues with too much emotionaly charged stuff.....

both from him and you....

he tells your host daughter that he doesn't have a girlfriend repeatedly....

your oldest tells you are taking on too much as your fault...

you said that though there was a break up that they continued to bring up that fear repeating itself.....for years...
this is the one that makes me question what type of post coming back together behavior you and he were modeling...

I would like to think that you two presented a new united front in alleviating concerns that this would happen again...
but the gist I am getting is that there wasn't unity and bonding to assist the children in to feeling safe..thus alleviating their fears...
OR
the break up was a such a trickle down emotional mess from you and he ...that it really affected them deeply....and haunted them

in other words I am imploring you to MAN-UP about and with your emotions with the children...

they are too young and too impressionable to burdon themselves with grownup emotional minutia.....and they need protected with ONE grownup acting reasonable in the midst of this mess....

you need to get on with normal life and activities.....
make them feel secure in the grownup home with them..

ALSO

I will tell you that I revisit my idea that your blaming him for your sexual issues is something that you should definitly address in apologizing to him in your plan A....

you must though offer your apology sincerely with NO expectations of any type of response...it is your gift...

If I had to live with someome telling me for years to have a surgery that I did not want....it would wear me down....and being a woman the idea of my spouse demanding for years I have my tubes tied...and then using my decisions against me may and very well could end up with me deciding to leave.....

your husband has shown signs of still wanting contact and closeness....

this may be a huge issue...and until you speak and show him YOUR changes of attitude in this area.....part of what holds him back may be his belief you haven't and won't change...

thing is he and no other WS believe any BS's changes at first...so the storm must be weathered.....

I know you are hurting...
but hurting doesn't kill us...
you have two impressionable daughters...

emotions must lead to motions that are positive...
otherwise we will just flounder in the emotional slog...
and times' fleeting...

ARK

Post deleted by JustMichele

Concentrate on being someone he does not want to distance himself from. Focus on being PLEASANT and UPBEAT even if it kills you. If you cry and carry on, who do you think looks more attractive? you or the OW? If you cry, plead and carry on, you MAKE THE OW LOOK GOOD. Because I assure you she is pleasant, she is not pleading and crying. So, be as pleasant and attractive as you possibly can becasue this is your program of ATTRACTION.


Michele, it helped me to force myself to go to work every day. I held the tears in all day and promised myself I could cry at 5:00 when I got in my Jeep to go home. I would rush to my Jeep and cry all the way home. By the time I got home, my cry was over and I could come inside and take care of my boys. They needed me more than ever at that time since their father had lost his mind.

I think I would have been in major trouble if I stayed home, though, because I know I would have just wallowed in my misery all day and REMAINED 100% obsessed with my grief. Even though I was pretty useless at work becasue I was so traumatized, it did me a world of good to get out. Otherwise, I would have stayed home and been alone with my misery all day.


\
Michele, I hope that you understand how devastating it is to be married to someone who REFUSES to meet your most important needs. I think you are catching on here how deeply hurtful it really is. And how it can effectively lead to falling out of love. Let's say that you had a strong emotional need for affection and your H refused to meet it unless you agreed to an extreme set of criteria. That sends a message that he does not care.


And will stay consumed for some time. This is about the worst thing that can happen to a person, Michele. You should be devastated. We can't help you with NORMAL. just know that it will not always be like this. You WILL be happy again, with or without your H. I can promise you that.

This situation is not hopeless if you can manage to put your emotions aside and let us help you. There are no guarantees, but I have seen situations far worse than this come back from the dead. With a well thought out strategy, you may be able to attract your husband back. You have an advantage the OW does not have: a HISTORY with your H and his children. She can never compete with that. On the other hand, you CAN compete with her on all levels, and HAVE in the past. You KNOW him much better than she does. You also have benefit of Marriage Builders and she does not. I know it feels like the end of the world, Michele, but it is NOT.

Post deleted by JustMichele

Hon, this does not sound bad. I think you said some very important things. You can't get through the fog right now, so you shouldn't even expect that, but it is GOOD to plant the seed that you know what you did wrong! but be assured you cannot reason with a falling down drunk. It is impossible!

You have time to think about your next interaction and to concentrate on being ATTRACTIVE. You must develop a program of ATTRACTION and use all your willpower to CONTROL YOUR EMOTIONS IN HIS PRESENCE. This is no easy task, but you can see that your emotions will HARM YOUR position with him.

In the meantime, Michele, you MUST find out who this OW is. I CANNOT EMPHASIZE the importance of this if we are to help you destroy his affair. We MUST KNOW who she is.

Do you exercise? When I was in your shoes I went down to Borders and bought the toughest workout video I could find. I found a tape called "Tough Tape" by the Firm. For the hour that I did that workout, I would LOSE myself in exercise. It was the only reprieve I had from my grief. I also got into excellent physical shape and have not stopped working out since.

Post deleted by JustMichele

LMAO!

He wants YOU to date to help YOU get over him???

Sounds like he wants YOU to date so that HE can look like the good guy. Cause, once you have moved on, then he will be allowed to without looking bad.

Find the OW!!!!

Post deleted by JustMichele

Michele, I am so sorry your H said that to you. Mine said the same thing so I know how that feels. Just know it was a result of the FOG and he can fall back in love again.


When we find out who it is, rest assured there will be no "peace." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

DO NOT contradict him!! It is a lovebuster and you can see it gets you nowhere. You have said what you needed to say about your relationship, so now is the time to be attractive and PLEASANT.

Is the house nice and clean and PLEASANT? How about putting some great dish in the oven that he loves and smelling up the house with great cooking smells?

If you get the urge to let him have it for some stupid, hurtful comment, just remind yourself that by reacting, you are helping the OW. Any lovebusters make the OW LOOK GOOD and your goal here is to help MICHELE and her DD's, not the OW. We are now on the HELP MICHELE PROGRAM. Got dat? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Post deleted by JustMichele

p.s. a WS tactic that you should watch out for is baiting the BS into a FIGHT. DO NOT, under any circumstances, allow him to bait you into a fight. This helps him JUSTIFY an affair, which is the equivalent of handing him ammunition to use against you.

He is looking for some bullcrap that will STICK. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> He is like the kid who whistles going past the graveyard, who knows he is SCARED TO DEATH [and full of crap] but is trying to convince himself otherwise. As long as you remember it is all fogbabble and don't take it seriously you will be fine.

I hate to sound so certain, but I really am certain there is an affair in the woodpile. This has all the markings.

Post deleted by JustMichele

You are doing very well. Are you thinking of things you can do tomorrow to get the most out of your visit?

Are you prepared to BITE YOUR TONGUE if he says something hurtful or unfair?

Post deleted by JustMichele

KEYWORDS for TODAY: Pleasant and ATTRACTIVE. No whining, crying, pleading, b*thching; only behavior that is ATTRACTIVE and PLEASANT. That is your STRATEGY. You have a STRATEGY, he has an affair that is based on a fantasy addiction. A STRATEGY can always overcome the plans of a falling down drunk.

If you feel an urge to cry, whine or lovebust, just remember that helps the OW. This is NOT the HelpTheHo-Bag Program, but the HelpMichele Program. You are smart, strategic and savvy and you have a mission to save your marriage. Your mission is NOT to give into your very wounded emotions because that will HURT MICHELE. And this is the HelpMichele Program. Got dat?

Stick to the mission, Michele. Be strong!

Melody, your words just put a smile on my face. (could be because my name is also Michelle)

Thank you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Then you can be on the HelpMichelle Program! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LOL!

We'll be our own little membership. Two strong!