Marriage Builders
Posted By: RILww ANGER! Need help on how to deal with it . . . - 09/06/07 10:55 AM
My WW and I are working out the details on our dissolution. I am having a hard time dealing with my anger. Some background:

Married for 17 years, two kids, incompatibilities became more noticeable over the years, drifted apart, WW had 3 1/2 year LTA, wants to split up, I was given a long list of faults from her on why this won't work out.

I am particular upset over some of the things that happened during the A - having OM spend the weekend at our house having sex in our bed while I was taking the kids to scout campouts, taking the kids to see OM during which they sneak away for a quickie, sneaking off to motel rooms for the afternoon, and just all the deceit and dishonest that went along with the A. I feel like she is "getting away with something", there are no repercussions to her behavior, and that I should expect some type of penance from her.

WW says we need to be civil for the kids sake, and I realize she is right, but I'm having a hard time with it. I'm not exactly being easy to deal with.

I want to know how others have dealt with similar situations, I would like to get over my anger and move on, I know it's not healthy. I am not going to IC, I am skeptical how much that will help.

Thank you.
anger will subside somewhat with time...IC may be in order to help you cope with this most awful of tragedies.
I am sorry for the helll you are going through.
Have you exposed the affair to everyone that matters?
Do your children know? If not, they should....and I speak from experience.
Hopefully, if you are divorcing, you have a bull dog attorney that will protect your children and your assets. Look into calling the OM to the witness stand if possible.

And BTW...she is not getting away with anything. This will break her down...even if that is down the road. Her life will forever be damaged by what she has done.

I wish you peace.
I have not exposed the affair, what would be the point now? She says she wants to dissolve our marriage, be with him in the future. We have been talking to attorneys, discussing how to split things up, writing up a parenting plan, etc.

I do feel like she will be living a lie when she starts introducing friends and her family to her "new" man in a few months or whenever that will happen. Should I tell her family and friends the truth, or would that seem like I am trying to get back at her?

The children have been told we are splitting up, but have not been told about the affair, should they and why?
RILww,

Why have you not exposed? Your story is textbook for a BS who has not exposed. Expose now to her family and friends, at least to your oldest child, and expose to OM's family. Put pressure on this sordid mess to end. I think that you problem is that you are a conflict avoider. Conflict avoidance will get you nothing except divorced and an every other weekend and Tuesdays dad. Start busting up this affair. I PROMISE you. Exposure will KILL this affair, and you and your WW will have a chance to reconcile in the future. But not if you just lay down and let your WW steamroll you. Stand up for yourself, your marriage, and your family. Make your WW experience the consequences of her behavior, and make OM's life he11 for pursuing your WW. Oh, and I'm sorry to be blunt, but GROW A PAIR! How do you think I got my WW to end her affair?
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I have not exposed the affair, what would be the point now? She says she wants to dissolve our marriage, be with him in the future. We have been talking to attorneys, discussing how to split things up, writing up a parenting plan, etc.

The point of it would be to try and save your marriage. Exposure is like chemotherapy to affairs. While it may not kill it immediately, it will hasten its death.

95% of affairs of fail to ever get to the marriage stage and those that do, mostly end in divorce, so the affair is doomed. You can help doom it faster by exposing it. Everyone should knwo that your marriage is being broken up by an affair and that the OM is a adultery partner. Many ppl will not allow him to darken their doorstep because of this. This will put great pressure on the affair.

Exposing hte affair is like bringing a crowd of people into the crack house to witness the crack heads. No one wants to get high while being watched. Same with an affair. An affair thrives on secrecy and fantasy. Exposure takes all the fun away.

Your kids have a right to be told the truth about their own life. Kids can deal with the truth, they can't deal with lies. And most importantly, they should be protected from your wife's affair, lest they grow up not knowing right from wrong. They need your moral guidance about adultery unless you want them to grow up with profound moral confusion.
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We have been talking to attorneys, discussing how to split things up, writing up a parenting plan, etc.

You are helping her destroy your marriage for no good reason. Divorce is permanent, her affair is very temporary. There is no reason to cooperate in the destruction of your marriage. The best plan is to not cooperate at all, make it as hard as possible and DRAG YOUR FEET. That way you won't be divorced when the affair dies.

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I do feel like she will be living a lie when she starts introducing friends and her family to her "new" man in a few months or whenever that will happen. Should I tell her family and friends the truth, or would that seem like I am trying to get back at her?

To NOT tell them would be ENABLING her. As you are doing now by keeping a secret for the OM and your wife. Becuase none of them understand that this is adultery and the OM helped destroy your marriage, they will unwittingly welcome this scumbag into their home.

Please tell me you do NOT have daughters. Please tell me your children have not been exposed to this man?
The bed would be tossed out of my house immediately and depending on the local fire codes and how interested I was in abiding by them, would be set afire.

I would not let my children be fed the line "that mommy and daddy don't love each other anymore and that's why we're getting a divorce." I would tell them, "mommy has a boyfriend and when you are married you aren't supposed to have a boyfriend."

I would also inform the extended family - unless you want to spend the rest of your natural life living and performing in front of others under the lie that your wife is perpetrating.

Don't do it in anger, do it calmly and in a well-thought out manner. Folks here can help give you a hand on how to go about it.

Once you are living in a truer fashion, your anger will likely subside some. You are under no obligation to support her in the deception she wants to perpetrate.

I hope that you have been in contact with an attorney in order to insure that your children are not induced to spend time in the presense of the OM.

And finally, do you want to fight for your marriage or not? What you want will decide what you do.
There's not much I can add to the excellent posts by Graplin, Mel and Jim.
Yes...your children should always be told the truth. Exposure has no downside here even if you guys continue with the divorce it is important that people know that there was an affair involved and that the OM is an intruder in your families lives.
Do not sit back and let life happen to you...grab it by the nuts and demand fair treatment.
Read Graplins post and then when the kids are at school...get that bed out of your house and use it as the starting line for action...better yet...start first thing tomorrow getting the exposure part taken care of...
good luck...and if you decide to try and save your M, realize that the exposure will shed light on this unholy relationship that thrives in dark corners.
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Two kids, 13 yr old boy, 9 yr old girl

sigh... Please do not allow your DD around the OM. This is how little girls end up molested. Her risk of being molested by a boyfriend of your wife's is very high.

Also, if your W has filed for divorce, I would suggest that you countersue for adultery if you are in a state where that is possible. If you can do this, it puts the WW in a position to have to defend her adultery to a judge in court. Often they will call the adultery partner into court as a witness and make him testify under oath. This puts HUGE CONFLICT in the affair.
I'm going to try and bump his original post. I believe that his WW agreed to NC, but he never exposed (so she took it further underground until getting busted again). He has been gaslighted this whole time and he needs to stand up for himself.
Original post from JFO:

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I am a male BS; D-day was almost four ago. I haven’t talked to anyone about this yet except my WS wife, but I am very interested in getting other perspectives on our particular situation. We would like to avoid talking to family and friends for obvious reasons. I haven’t seen a therapist yet, but may at some time. I am especially interested in getting feedback on a couple of questions I have regarding some things that are happening now.

We have been married almost 17 years with two children, a 13-year-old boy and a 9-year-old girl. We are good parents are provide a good home. Our primary concern throughout this whole situation was the effect this situation has on the kids. So far, we believe we have avoided having them suspect anything, but who really knows, kids can pick up more than we think they do.

Our situation is somewhat typical, in that we had some great times in the beginning, then slowly drifted apart, not meeting each other’s needs. I will admit that I am more guilty of that than her, she has told me numerous times in the past that I don’t talk to her enough, I am too much of a hurry to initiate sex without satisfying her emotional needs first, don’t do enough with the kids, etc. She is 100% right on these things. She has had more experience with relationships than I have, and has shown a higher level of maturity of dealing with our relationship than I have. Later on my frustration led to me being short with her, saying unpleasant things, reacting harshly when a suggestion was made or help was requested. She has said after awhile she felt very alone and unloved. I take responsibility for these actions, and I am already working on learning and improving myself and have resolved to change my life for the better as a result of it. She says she is pleased with the way I have changed so far.

About 7 years ago we moved back to her hometown, a few years after that she started a correspondence and then visits with a male friend from her past. He had started the contact my emailing people, including my wife, from his past out of curiosity with what happened to them. I didn’t think much of it at the time, although I did read a few emails from that time to her from him where he made statements wondering what their lives would be liked if their relationship at the time had progressed further, etc. I found out after D-day that they had been lovers before I met my wife, so it’s an old flame situation. I realize now that was an initial danger sign. My wife started going on scuba trips overseas a few years ago, I supported and encouraged this as she has a great interest in the outdoors and enjoys the activity. I just assumed she was going by herself. Last fall I happened to be using her computer when I noticed she was logged onto an email account I didn’t recognize. Being curious, I looked at it briefly, but not enough to read any messages. I guess at the time I wanted to respect her privacy, but looking back I realize this was another danger sign, a much larger one. We also stopped making love about two years ago, when I asked her about it she said she just wasn’t interested, which I found odd. The final piece of evidence that occurred the week before D-day was that a postcard came in the mail from the hotel she stayed at during her last scuba trip. Her name and the name of the male friend was on it. I remembered about the secret email account and decided to do some snooping. I bought and installed a monitoring program on her computer, and within a few days had her email password. The next time she was out of the house, I logged onto her secret email account and discovered that she had been seeing him intimately for at least 2 years (I later found out that the affair has been going on for 3 years). Reading the emails about their scuba trips together, and especially the sexually graphic emails to each other where they relived their experience was very painful to me, as I’m sure some of you can attest to.

I came very close to a panic, as some of the emails referred to the OP being a step dad to my kids, others talked about how much retirement money they each had to contribute to a possible future life together, another talked about letting me go so I can discover happiness somewhere else. Other emails talked glowingly about some of their sexual encounters in our house, including sleeping together and having sex in the bed I shared with my wife. Of everything that has happened, this is particularly upsetting to me, as I feel it shows an incredible lack of respect for me the BS from the WS and OP. I will add some of these non-scuba trip encounters happened when I was on scout camping trips with my kids, sleeping in a tent in freezing weather while my wife was making love to someone else in my own bed.

I feel like an idiot, looking back there were many clues to what was going on, my trusting nature and beliefs about my wife prevented me from recognizing those clues for what they were.

I confronted my wife with my discovery; she didn’t try to deny it. Her consistent response since then has been that my treatment of her, my making her feel unloved, not meeting her emotional needs left her open to the affair. She also says she could tell by my actions and body language that I wasn’t happy in the relationship, and she is right, I wasn’t. She wonders if she is “right for me”, and maybe she can’t meet my needs based on how I have treated her. She says she didn’t go looking for this, but the OP happened to be there at the same time during a similar time in his life (he apparently has also drifted away from his wife over the years), and so they gradually got more emotionally involved, and of course from there to being physically involved also.

She says she and the OP stopped this relationship several times during the affair out of fear of being discovered and out of concern the hurt it would cause each BS. In fact at the time I discovered it, they had actually decided to stop in the near future, and my wife was considering approaching me about repairing my relationship. My wife and I have discussed this for many hours since D-day, our conversations have been calm, frank and honest, I feel that is a good sign. She is a little skeptical on my ability to change, and based on my past history of being reluctant to change I don’t blame her. However, she has agreed to work with me on improving our relationship, although it’s much less of a total commitment at this point.

I still love my wife, and want to learn from this and reconcile and rebuild our relationship. We both agree this is a huge wake-up call and our last chance to make things better. I have read several books that have been very helpful to me in understanding how these things happen and what each party is feeling and going through, two were “After the Affair”, and “NOT Just Friends”. I highly recommend Not Just Friends as the one excellent book to read on the subject of affairs. I have asked my wife to read the book and she has almost completed it.

This understandably devastates me, and I realize it will take a long time for the repair and healing process. I am mentally prepared for this and am motivated to do what it takes to rebuild things with my wife. Three things (among many of course) are bothering me, which I wanted to get more perspective on from others who post here that have been through this.

The first concerns continuing contact between my wife and the OP. Before reading the books I asked her to stop having sex with the OP, she reluctantly agreed to this, again mentioning that this was something they had decided to do anyway. When I also asked her to stop all contact with the OP out of concern of the relationship restarting and having her emotional energy still being expended towards him and not me, she expressed reluctance. She said things like “I really enjoy talking to him”, “He has become a great friend”, and “he really enjoy scuba diving with me”. I let it go at the time, but after reading the books mentioned above I now realize this is something that has to happen if the reconciliation has any change of success. My current dilemma is this: Her next scuba trip with him is coming up in a couple of weeks. I have reluctantly given my agreement for her to go with him on this trip with the understanding that they not be intimate, she has discussed this with the OP and they both have agreed to this. I said they must act during this remaining phase of their relationship as platonic friends only, again they have both agreed to this. But I wondering if I am being too trusting at this early stage, I’m sure the temptation for them to repeat what happened in the past will be strong (they may be sharing a hotel room during part of the trip, my wife says they can look into getting a room with double beds). I told her any actions beyond the platonic stage would probably eliminate any chance for reconciliation. She says my attitude about this makes her feel like she is being “tested”, I told her that I am looking for her to show a sign of faith that she is still interested in our relationship.

My next concern is how I should handle the stopping of all contact with the OP. I have told her that everything I read strongly recommends permanently stopping all contact with the OP. I have also told her that I agree with this. After several discussions about this and reading the Not Just Friends book, she has agreed to this. When I told her I would like to witness the final phone call; she said my request showed immaturity. She wants to have one final meeting with him after their trip to say their final goodbyes, she says that she would feel much better about ending things to do it this way, and if she is allowed to do it this way she would be more open to reconciliation.

I am trying to work with her and negotiate an ending to the affair that’s acceptable to both of us. I would obviously want her to end things immediately, but I realize she is going through withdrawal so it would be helpful to her to end this affair somewhat on her terms.

Another item related to the ending of this affair concerns a request from the OP asking me not to contact his wife. I agreed to this, but I told my wife to tell him that he should do the right thing and tell her. However, I am now thinking about using this as a safeguard to prevent him from contacting my wife again, I am thinking of telling him that if he ever contacts my wife again, I will tell his wife what happened.

The final area that concerns me at this time is twofold; it concerns her attitudes towards this situation. The first thing that is bothering me is that she has shown almost no remorse for the hurt she has caused me. When I ask her about this, she mentions that she cried to the OP about this issue at different times in the past. The other thing that is bothering me is that she doesn’t seem to be making a lot of effort on her part to reconcile. She is open to my suggestions, is always available to talk to me, and says she is willing to give out relationship another try. But her current attitude makes it clear most of the effort needs to come from me at this point. She says she has drifted away from me over the last several years due to my treatment of her and therefore doesn’t have much to give me at the point, and there is just only so much she is ready to do now. And she is concerned about being “right for me” as I mentioned previously. However, this contrasts with what I read about reconciliation is that the WS should expend most of the effort in healing the hurt and working to improve the relationship. In our case, she has done almost nothing to heal my hurt, and she is waiting to see how sincere I am about changing before she commits herself further. What does this mean? Will her attitude change down the road? I realize it’s only been four weeks and most of her emotional energy is still devoted towards the OP and A and she is dealing with withdrawal.

I am aware of the “180”, I have used this briefly to get her to agree to NC. I am concerned about using this on a long-term basis as it may sever what little connection we have now.

I apologize for this post being so long, but this is obviously a complicated subject. The forums and articles on this website have been very helpful to me, so I though I would post my story to get some feedback.

Any insights you can give me from some one that has “been there and done that” would be greatly appreciated. I will monitor this post to see your responses, and would be glad to answer any questions or clarify anything if that helps you provide guidance for me.

Thank you.
RILww,

Deal with your anger by actively breaking up your WW's affair. It has never stopped because NC was never established.
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Another item related to the ending of this affair concerns a request from the OP asking me not to contact his wife. I agreed to this, but I told my wife to tell him that he should do the right thing and tell her. However, I am now thinking about using this as a safeguard to prevent him from contacting my wife again, I am thinking of telling him that if he ever contacts my wife again, I will tell his wife what happened.

RIL, have you told the OMW about the affair?
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I feel like she is "getting away with something", there are no repercussions to her behavior,

yes, she is getting away with it because you have enabled her by protecting her from the consequences. That is not in her best interest.

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WW says we need to be civil for the kids sake, and I realize she is right, .

No, she is not right. The translation is: please bend over and take it quietly while I destroy you and the childrens lives.

See, if you squeal while she stabs you to death it will be bothersome and annoying to her. She doesn't like those pesky consequences. So please, lets all be "friends" "for the children." Got dat? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

That was a little wayward manipulation to shut you up and keep you in your place. Please don't fall for it.

The best way to handle it is to tell her you are not her "friend" and that her adultery is extremely painful to you and the children. And that you will fight for your marriage. You are not her "friend," but her husband and will never acccept anything less.

Furthermore, who would have a "friend" who lied and cheated to them? That is not the behavior of a "friend," but an enemy.
If I have learned one thing on this board is that the A needs to be exposed!
Tell everyone!
Even the kids are old enough to know the basics, and let me tell ya, my daughter now admits she remembers things when she was 5 yrs old.
WW is getting away with it if its allowed to go on.
Trust me I understand that anger, there were nights when I felt I could not live in my own skin. It got almost unbearable, thank God that does subside.
The second best advice I see on here is to take care of you,
reduce that anger by looking better then you have ever looked, get some new clothes, eat well, excercise and get mentally healthy, do all the right things for you, thats the best revenge.
take care.
Thank you all for your comments. It has given me a lot to think about.

The more I do think about it, the more I have a hard time imagining getting along and falling in love with her again. As I said in my original post in JFO, we had been drifting apart for years. We definitely have some compatibility and personality differences that are a challenge. She is a control person, analyzes situations excessively, sometimes sees conspiracies when there are none, is particular about how things are done, and is stubborn and set in her ways. I think after awhile that affected me and pushed me away from her. I am more easy going. All of this on top of dealing with the affair makes the odds against us reconciling extremely high. During our brief attempt at reconciliation this summer, she said she doesn't understand why her relationships don't last, maybe she needs to look at herself. I am beginning to think I would be better off without her. When I think about life after this marriage, the things I will miss are the family times together - I don't think about missing her.

One thing I am concerned about if I expose now, before the dissolution is final (we are in the early stages), is that she will abandon the dissolution process and start the divorce process. With the continuing bias against fathers in the courts, I am concerned that I would have less time in the future with my kids than I will have with dissolution (we have agreed to joint custody, equal time with the kids on a 7 day on/off rotating schedule). She is also letting me decide whether to keep our house or not, and she has agreed for me not to pay child custody or alimony to her. If we go the divorce route, I can see this ending up much worse for me knowing how stubborn and clever she can be.

I know some of you don't think I have handled this correctly, you are probably right, but I was stumbling around in the dark in the beginning. Maybe I should take a hard line with her, but the risks are high as mentioned above. I believe I have more to lose than gain at this point by doing that.

My main concern from here on is that she not present OM as the "new man" in her life after we split up. My thought now is to expose the affair after our dissolution is final.
If you don't things could get better, you are wrong. They can with counseling. Don't let me talk you into doing something, but if you expose, you put a lot of pressure on her. If she cares about how others view her, filing for divorce and primary custody of the children would make her look extremely bad. Also, if you kids know, they can put pressure on her to stop. I know it is a risk, but is the reward of keeping your family together and rekindling your relationship with your W worth it? My point is this. Don't go along with a dissolution that you don't want. Stand up for yourself. If she wants to see OM, she leaves you and the kids for OM. There is no such thing as an amicable divorce, and she is only being somewhat tolerable right now so you give her what she wants. Wait until she's already got her custody and money lined up and watch her flip the switch.
RIL,

Exposure after divorce is final is not exposure to save the marriage, which is what kind of exposure has been suggested to you from the very beginning, but is instead a method of retribution and vengeance. It is designed not to heal the relationship but to hurl hurt and harm at the other person.

If you want to expose as a way to heal, expose NOW. If all you care about is getting even, then do whatever you want until the papers are signed and the judge has taken control over your lives...

Mark
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I am more easy going. All of this on top of dealing with the affair makes the odds against us reconciling extremely high. During our brief attempt at reconciliation this summer, she said she doesn't understand why her relationships don't last, maybe she needs to look at herself. I am beginning to think I would be better off without her. When I think about life after this marriage, the things I will miss are the family times together - I don't think about missing her.

RIL, if you don't want to save the marriage, I would manage exposure in a different way. I would definitely tell your kids and the OMW the truth about the affair and not worry about anyone else at this point. The OMW most especially must be told. And I wouldn't wait on that.

Your kids need to know why their parents marriage split up, otherwise, they will fill in the blanks and come up with their own conclusion. I think the kids need to know very soon, but if is better to wait a week for a hearing, etc, there is no reason it can't wait a week.

And maybe after your D you could send your MIL/FIL a nice note to your and let them know about the affair and who the OM really is. I know I would certainly appreciate knowing if I were your MIL. I would not want the OM to darken my doorstep personally.
I agree...absent an attempt to save the marriage...which I do not fault you for not wanting to do at this point...exposure should be handled differently. Mel has laid out an excellent suggestion..please consider following it...your kids need thee truth.
Agreed...the choice to continue the marriage or not after she cheated is entirely yours to make, and no one can fault you for making that decision either way.

Being honest with your kids about what's going on is HUGE...and the advice you've been given makes a ton of sense.

What do YOU want out of all of this? Pick your goal, get a gameplan to get you there, and then work your plan til you get what you want.
Perhaps YOU should abandon the dissolution and pursue the divorce yourself. Get the upper hand, and show her that a decent person does not do this to her family, and then get everything that she wants.

As a father, I would feel incredible anger at myself for allowing her to do this to our children, and then willingly sign over 50% custody to her so she can expose them to this POS OM.

Do not presume so much bias against fathers is still the norm. Get yourself an attorney that is even more stubborn and clever than herself, and make it clear to her that if she wants out of the family, she is free to leave, and that you and the children will carry on as best you can without her. Let her pay child support, and alimony. Let her "babysit" the kids every other weekend, which is about all an emotional teenager should be allowed to care for them.

Even if you don't want to save the marriage, you most certainly do not want this man around your children. This is not what is in their best interest. As a loving father, you should fight for them. You will find that fighting for what is best for your children will help transform some of your anger into useful energy that is focused on something good and just. Anger is not always a negative emotion. It tells us that something isn't right, and we should want to do something about it. If we don't act on it constructively, it turns inward and becomes depression. Then we ain't no good for nobody.
I agree, if you want to split, file for D yourself and stick it to your WS. You do not want your children exposed to this evil OM. Do it to protect your children. Do you really want this SOB to take the place of you?
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Do not presume so much bias against fathers is still the norm. Get yourself an attorney that is even more stubborn and clever than herself, and make it clear to her that if she wants out of the family, she is free to leave, and that you and the children will carry on as best you can without her. Let her pay child support, and alimony. Let her "babysit" the kids every other weekend, which is about all an emotional teenager should be allowed to care for them.

Gale gave you outstanding advice and I will only add that he gained full custody of his own son. He protected his son as best he could from his wife's affair and did a great job.

With you, RIL, the stakes are even higher. You have a little girl, and this is how little girls end up molested. The statistical risk of her getting molested is much greater in a situations like this. Dr. Harley talks about this on his radio show. This is why your kids have to be protected as best you can. You can't afford to be the go-along to get-along guy when it comes to protecting your kids. YOU ARE ALL THEY HAVE!

I am going to go see if I can find the radio archive on that.
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