Quick question- I looked at my FWH cell today (which is his govt. work phone and he cant get an itemized bill- I have access to it online and it will not show call details) the last call he made was to our home at 2 am. He was working and called me at 115 am to tell me he was on his way home. I noticed this when I looked at the timer for the last call- which read 0 min. We talked about 10 min. This did not match.

Here is my issue- the phone our house did not ring. I confronted him- nicely not LB- just I think we need to talk- this does not add up to me.

His explaination- he put the phone in his pocket- getting out of the car to come in the house because his phone holder was on the bottom of the car floor. He must have hit a button twice on the outside of the phone to make it ring and hang up.

I explained my theory- he was talking to OW deleted her call- then called the house and hung up - thinking if I looked I would see he last called me.

He was not ugly- he just explained what the deal was. He says he can understand my thought process but I am wrong- I simply stated OK prove it- figure out some way to prove it.

Help- my head and heart are in conflict. If I look at his actions I dont see him with the OW. He has been a model husband and father- since I learned over a year ago of his one month affair. He is not angry, mean or disconnected.

PLEASE BE HONEST-
I NEED AN OUTSIDERS VIEW POINT.

THANKS
AM

why would he need to call the house after he "talked" to her if he just deleted the proof...and you can't see the itemized bill..

what would be the point of calling home..

ark

I get accidental rings from my sons all the time when they place their cellphones down (careless boys)..they say, I didn't call you..so your H's explanation seems perfectly legit...

Dr. H suggests that when a BW has a suspicion it is right more often than not. While his explanation makes sense...so does your concern.

ark-

That's what he said too! I guess I am thinking he would need to call the house so the last call on the recent call list would be to the house. But thinking a little more clearly- even if he deleted another call- mine would then pop back to the top of the list again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mimi-
I too get calls all the time from my teen son.

Okay- thank you thank you- I am paranoid- I guess I often second guess myself and that old saying "once a cheater always a cheater" haunts me into paranoia!!

I see posts going one way and others going the other. I am going to state that I am replying neutral. Like Mr. Spock on Star Trek, you need to [censored] one eyebrow. Know that you saw one red flag. Now, start being vigilant looking for others to pop up.

Its like salt water fishing as well. You saw the tip of the rod move a little- could just be a wave. If you yank now, you might possibly startle a nibbling fish, but never know. If you are patient for a bit, you might see stronger nibbling signs and you WILL know when to snap the rod up, set the hook, and reel it in for the catch.

Analogies anyone? Lol

Good Luck

Ark-
I have the ability to go online and see the account- there is no way to make it itemize the calls. BELIEVE ME- I tried. I do feel that he was forthcoming about giving me the info to go onto the account to prove to me that it was not possible.

MK-

I know I have read that a hundred times- and each time I have had some kind of weird sense- like he's not where he should be- I have had him stop and purchase an item- that I request- in order to verify his story. That is about all I can do- and each time he is where he said he was.

Honestly- I think my paranoia roots from insecurities and my fear of trusting him. It is like this cycle- I begin to feel comfortable with us- I start getting paranoid- I fully understand it is some sort of protection device for myself- does it do me any good in the long run- heck no. It only drives me insane- because I know in my heart if he chooses to be unfaithful I can do nothing to stop it- it is out of my control- however I guess I feel if he does and I quickly find out then I not sitting here being some kind of silly fool while he's off having fun. Does this make sense or is it my crazy thought process again <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />??

foglights-
I like the analogy. I guess you could say my deep fear is that I will catch a fish. I know if it is there it will surface- it's just so darn hard. Besides his behavior- which is a total 180 from when he was in the affair- I dont even know what to look for.

I do randomly check his cell messages- I have his pin. I have NEVER gotten anything from that.

UGH- it sucks to think the rest of my life I could me in a marriage where I constantly feel the need to spy.
AM

I don't think you are crazy by any means. If it makes sense, I will recap briefly why I AM HERE! My wife has had 2 bad previous marriages to cheaters, and I am a really nice, sincere, honest person. I always knew she was paranoid about me cheating. She is absolutely convinced that I did 1 1/2 years ago. No red flags whatsoever, just bad timing, and no way of proof on my part. I never challenged her right to be concerned, but told her I would spend the rest of my life proving my trustworthiness. After some stress for two years (relationship, jobs, moving, finances) she decided to play at work.

The moral is: don't focus too much on preventing someone from falling in a hole, because you may not be looking where you should when you need to be.

I hope in some way this helps, as I am a noob here anyways.

Amartini....I don't think you should ever trust him again. I think you should verify his words on occasion. I think you should trust yourself...trust that you know that no matter what happens to you moving forward, you will be okay.
I think fear in relationships is really just our being concerned about our ability to survive being betrayed again. Your H has shown an ability to betray you. It exists within him. Does that mean he can never redeem himself...no...and I hope your recovery proceeds full steam ahead. But it does mean that you need to be aware...you will never again be a "virgin" when it comes to infidelity. You know what to look for and how to protect yourself.

Try the hidden voice activated recorder in the car. Since he obviously calls from there, that might catch any illicit behavior, and he couldn't cover that by playing with the phone. How long does the drive home take? Can't be much traffic that early/late.

As to his not being able to get an itemized bill, "Poppycock!" That's my word of the day!

To me, his explanation sounds like he was prepared, which is not a good sign to me, unless he is 007, which would be another bad sign.

I agree that the recorder sounds great.

BUT,

I too have a work cellphone, and I know that I cannot do ANYTHING to get records. I even tried to set it up like I did my wifes personal cellphone account to spy. No go. I would have to deal with my boss or some other department to be able to get a copy of, or be set up on the account. So, I don't see the cell records as being deceptive.

An alternative is to see if his work will provide a reimbursement for him to have his own personal cellphone for accessibility. Some employers do that, and if HR is somehow involved, strings might be pulled to allow it for an extenuating circumstance.

The A/P department has a copy of the itemized bill, unless the account was set up to not get one. That could be changed. I do, however, understand that some companies make it tough to get that info. Shame on them! They are helping to hide affairs.

Plus, regardless if they have a cellphone or not, I have at least the last 6 months of cell records on my wifes account. Guess what? There is not a single "hit" on it for the entire time this has been going on. So guess what that told me? Yeah, it pointed me towards her work. Verbally planned meeting times and such, or the use of her deskphone for a non-employee. I had absolutely no proof, but I waited awhile, then explained to her that she had been seen leaving to go to lunch with someone. I remembered back to a conversation where she talked about an old friend who gave up a good man in a "high up position" years ago at the same type of job, and what a fool she was. I then talked to someone who works at her employer, and was alarmed to hear about a "high up position" guy who was recently separated. Danger, Will Robinson!!! I chatted with her a few times, and was telling things she didn't even know about the player that SHE DIDN"T EVEN KNOW! That threw her way off, and that info was from a fellow coworker of theirs, but she thinks I 007'd all of it myself. I guess you know the rest because a couple months later she moved out.

Sometimes its just a trick of taking bits of information to see a bigger picture, and not relying on one intelligence source for the information. Sometimes you have to gamble and be vague with details- like you are already convinced you know somethings up. Also, waiting long enough to be mostly sure before making a fool of yourself. Thats where being vague, and the WS gets paranoid, and you get the proof from them if you were right or not.

Yes, my wife is convinced I am 007, and she can't take a poo without me knowing. All I have is her cell account, her (the biggest intelligence source I have), and some smarts. I caught her so early on I think she immediately stopped, and is in withdrawal. Maybe soon enough to save the marriage I hope.

SYF-
HA HA about the 007 thing- but he in his field of work he is kinda 007. He the job that many little boys dream of- he is in law enforcement for the govt. and does do some undercover work. So with that said- I think his technology skills beat this poor little social workers/SAHM skills hands down!

I do not think I will go down the road of a recorder yet- as there are no other signs.

I did just talk with him- as he is doing target work today. I apologized for my paranoid type thinking- and explained I could see the flaw in my thought process- because if he was talking to her there is really no need recall me (well I do know it would only be to reset the timer on the last call timer log- which would make it show 0 min. which would then verify his story) as it would put our number at the top. I did tell him- I had actually thought about having him take a lie detector test over this issue. He chuckled and said okay- whatever you need.

MK-
Oh I don't trust him in THAT ASPECT- not 100%! I know that whatever happens I will be okay. I can survive just fine without him- would it be painful- yes- but I would be fine.

I just fear that he is still bopping her - of course I have no reasoning for this other than I just don't trust him- PERIOD. I keep expecting to find something thing that will prove me right. Maybe I have read too many bad stories on these boards about WS not getting it and going back or never really ending the affair. I guess that is all of ours - BS- worst nightmare.
AM

Don't fool yourself, you have the upper hand. I am only so good at what I do because I am SO much more committed to my relationship than she is that I can read her like a book. Thats all you need to be able to do sometimes. The electronics just provide data on the stuff that your emotions and reading can't provide.

I'm telling you he works for the feds. it would take an act of congress (IMHO) to get a copy of that itemized record.

Don't focus on the cellphone so much.

If it gets that bad, you just pull the simm card out of the phone, and use a simm reader. Voice recorder and a GPS on the vehicle if you REALLY get suspicious.

Oh yeah, and while you are feeling a little weird because of your recent suspicions, don't fail to keep working on trying to rebuild, or you guys could start working backwards, and that would be worse than the one red flag right now. Keep working on yourself and your M while you just keep your eyes open for awhile.

Foglights-
Do you think my fear is valid or not?? I feel like I am too close to the tree to see the forest- you know what I mean.

You are lucky- as your WW works somewhere that others will talk to you. My fwh job is like a little frat. house- I think they all cover for each other or are secretly rooting the infidels on. Anyway- its basically a macho male environment- I don't mean to stereotype but I am! LOL

Yeah- I thought I could read my FWH like a book too!! Well I guess I could- because he was cheating- I asked- he denied- and I caught him the next day- via his cell phone. He had talked with her- after leaving her house after working one night a week night shift. I saw the number asked and he me then. I guess in his mind I had to have a number to make him confess.

You are right- I watch everything like a hawk- I know where the money goes and I am QUICK when I see he took five dollars more than the agreed amount out for lunch.

I have wanted to chip him- like they do the dogs. Then i could easily verify his location! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

WHAT IS A SIMM READER?????

Oh yes- it seems its always two steps forward and one back. I do try to focus each day on a positive something about him and us- it helps to keep me focused.

I won't say your fear isn't valid at all, but if you bluff too quick, he could get sneakier.

For comparison, let me tell you about my red flags. When I started to get suspicious enough to start research, I got a total of 31 out of a possible 46. 5 weren't even valid for us, so it was 31 out of 41 red flags. You may see ripples of one and two red flags from time to time that mean nothing (like he buys a good looking shirt, decides to buy a 6-pack on the way home from work and you find a few in the garage trash on saturday, gets a haircut, etc. but it is a good ability to be able to recognize the possibility of others popping shortly thereafter. I don't know how many red flags is a good number to say start getting suspicious, but I think anything more than 3 weak or at least one strong red flag would allow you to feel more at ease.

I'll try to link or post a list of the 46 that I found elsewhere on the net.

Haven't had to use a simm reader, but from what I have read, you put the simm card in it, and it reads everything- including deleted stuff. Don't know about their effectiveness, but maybe others could chime in on that.

hmmm- guess i would need to figure out if his phone has a simm card. I didn't think all cells had one. wow- now that would be interesting to see in action.

thanks for taking the time-
am

The really old phones didn't have them, but I think I can safely say that if its newer than say 3-5 years old, it should have one. So, don't worry about the account- just try to find out how the simm card reader works and how accurate from others here that may know that stuff.

I'm just trying to keep you objective because I just recently got out of "that emotional place" we have both been, and don't want somebody to go back there unless it is really valid to.

ha ha- dude its an emotional roller coaster- it's been over a year for me. All I can say is the hills on the ride get smaller.

I used to tell our MC I felt like a bipolar child on speed. (I used to work with foster children so this was an awesome analogy for my FWH). I do have my insecure moments- which I think are self induced- looking for the bad.

Thanks for the insight. And I hope all turns out well for you.

AM

Yeah, I think she is starting to come out of the "fog" two weeks after moveout. I don't know if its false yet, but we shall see. I don't really know anybody at her work, just a guy who works for my landlady that I discovered just recently quit work out there, and he provided me with answers to my targeted questions about some name dropping to him that I know from my wife talking about work. But, my WW is convinced I know at least two people out there watching her like a hawk! The second tidbit is a password from a F coworker who is married, but her password is "boyfriend" I found in her portfolio, and this F is someone she tried to use as an excuse to go to happy hour. Needless to say, she wasn't able to attend. So, she is also convinced that I hack her computer and see her emails due to some "fed" friend I went to high school with. Lololololol. Like I said, the mind game and your intuition means more than any electronics.

I would rename your thread to something about "spying and simm card reader info needed" or something. Focus on learning what you can control, and thats the simm card he brings home in his phone every day from work, and go from there. Keep your eyes open.

I have always had my cellular service w/Sprint, and never had a SIM card in my phone (and I just got a brand new phone). I think it's to do with the type of cellular network your provider uses (CDMA vs GSM). Sprint uses CDMA, whereas carriers that have phones w/SIM cards use GSM.

I am so freak out. I informed my FWH that I would like him to take the lie detector test- so I could confirm his answers of his affair- gain closer and move on. Questions such as- was Dday the last day you talked with her, only affair, etc. I do not seek details of the affair itself- I just want to fully believe him- when it started and ended- as well as if there were other affairs.

I even told him of the questions- he balked saying if he went ahead then next month I'd come up with something else and want him to again take a test. I told him I only seek closure and desire to move on. I have explained I have a difficult time suddenly believing him because "HE SAYS" I am sensing much gas lighting- and am reading up on it now.

I did tell him that I this was something I needed to move forward. I think I said something to the effect that this was needed to remain married. It just freaked me out when he said no.

Should I be worried or does he have a valid point- it has been a year since the affair- am I just dwelling on it??

I want to trust him- but having a hard time with it now.
thanks
am

To agree may be an act of bluffing you into believing he has nothing to hide if you didn't follow through. The fact that he agreed, you called his bluff, THEN he decided not to is definitely NOT a good sign to me.

But then again I am no expert.