Okay, I have some questions which struck me as I was looking at pictures of Silda Spitzer/Governor of NY's wife. What gives? She is pretty, smart, sexy, well educated, etc. etc. It seems that for every "type" of woman, you can find a man who isn't satisfied. Sometimes I think it is just a "need" of men and means nothing. . . . except to the woman who thought she was all he needed.

Are any of you men out there open to a discussion as to why this happens - without blaming? I am curious in a scientific, sort of removed way. It seems to happen again and again, almost doesn't matter who the woman is that's being cheated on. I now wonder if I will ever be enough for any man out there. I think I am pretty fabulous <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />, but my point is I don't think it matters. As soon as they know they have you, they seem to think there must be something more . . . . .

On the flip side, how come women aren't as "cold" and removed when it comes to sex? By that I mean we don't think, "Yes, you're good buddy, but if you're good and I can have you, there must be someone better that I can't have and therefore I will make it my life's mission to find and conquer him, if only to throw him away once I make him mine . . . . "

Any takers men? What's up with you and sex?

Shattered,

Thanks for asking this question. I hope the guys weigh in on it because I would also like to know...

some women are just as "cold."

I actually find women to be the more dysfunctional (sorry ladies) group when it comes to sex. They use it as a weapon and to manipulate....NOT ALL...just some.

I have never been with a woman that I didn't feel satisfied with. I think it is a matter of maturity and not gender. In addition there are PLANTY of women that play the "now I have him" game. It goes both ways.

She is a nice southern lady, Harvard educated, a corporate lawyer who gave up her practice to raise her kids and be a helpmate to her husband.

I think he felt entitled and thought he could get away with it, although his "no protection" request turns my stomach.

Thank for your responses. Obviously, I am overgeneralizing and categorizing men into the "sexual predator" category. I know there are some women out there that are predators as well, it's just that right now I am interested in a man's POV. And let's face it, testosterone being what it is, can't we all agree that sex affects men differently than women?

Seriously, what makes men like the Gov.of NY, former President William Clinton, etc. KNOWINGLY RISK careers that took a lifetime to build and families that I truly believe mean the world to some of these men? Let's face it boys, if you make it to the presidency, you darn well know there's a good chance that the "Intern" who's tootin' your horn under the desk while you're chewin' the fat with the President of Venezuela will one day grace the cover of the tabloids. You don't make it to the White House without some savy as to the way the political machine works.

Is it because the higher up you get the more temptation there is?

well, it probably has a lot to do with a lack of character and integrity. People who make it to the top...with exceptions like Jimmy Carter...have walked all over others and are ruthless. I don't imagine that man or woman, it is a far stretch for them to screw around and think they are above being caught.

I think power corrupts...look at two other groups that have created a mess lately...one women, one men...with power over others and yet they risk everything.

Female teachers with young teenage boys and male priests molesting either gender.

I also don't think for a minute that Hilary wasn't playing around herself as well. I just think she wasn't as stupid as Bubba and didn't get caught(they don't call it a dumb stick for nothing!). Women are better liars (that would explain why there are some estimates that 30% of the children being raised in this country are not fathered by the dad that thinks it is his child).

Sorry if I veered off topic.

From His Needs, Her Needs - Chapter 4 - Sexual Fulfillment:


Dr Harley continues:


Who knows? Maybe Mrs. Spitzer was frigid, or was a dud in bed, or wouldn't do oral, or figured that since they were done having kids they could be done having sex. Maybe Spitzer has ED or is awful in bed so Mrs Spitzer didn't want to have SF any more. Maybe he's a sex addict. Maybe he wanted a little 'strange' and got caught. We just don't know what their private life was like and we can't see into their minds.

I do agree with MEDC that people at or near the top are bound to be more ruthless, more selfish, have less integrity and more flexible morals than the rest of us. This was bound to make Spitzer feel more entitled and more immune to consequences.

You didn't veer off topic, you are right on topic. So you think it is a lack of values? But then how do you explain the almost disproportionate amount of infidelity in clergy? Of course what jumps to mind is televangelists, but my personal POV is that they (televangelists) are charletons.

I am really interested in what makes men tick. I often say that a naked woman could bring down countries. I think I enjoy sex as much as the next guy/gal but seem to have the wherewithall to draw the line when appropriate. What happens to people who can't?

Is sex really that much better for guys that they are willing to risk ALL for a fleeting moment of sexual gratification?

Women are definitely changing, ie: the teachers.

But I still think mainly men have the ability to compartmentalize their lives.

The governor had a happy family (with 3 daughters, sigh) and a wife taking care of the family and doing charity work.

Then, in his "other" life, he felt entitled to live on the wild side and hire high-priced hookers.

Meanwhile in his professional life, he was crusading against corruption.

But he definitely has a character flaw. I'll be surprised if his wife stands by him.

a HUGE lack of values and integrity.

It's funny you say this. Once again, I see the opposite.
We would get calls for disturbances at strip clubs. Men, for the most part...are very civilized and calm in that setting.
Women in a male strip club are like ravenous dogs all going after one piece of meat. And while men will rarely engage in sex with these women...women on the other hand are known to engage in oral and other types of sex right in the clubs.

When you talk about women being ravenous after one piece of meat, are you talking about women at a men's stripper club or a woman's club where men are stripping?

My female curiousity is most piqued when I watch shows like The Bachelor. I was watching previews for next week, where the bachelor is a Brit. OMG, you'd think these women never laid eyes on a man before! I am seriously embarrassed for the U.S. I am not a prude by any stretch of the imagination but these chicks are totally out of control. I don't get it.

Anyway MEDC, I know what you are saying. Let me ask you this: What if you met a woman who totally had her s&it together; in addition, you had a meeting of the minds and an outstanding mutually satisfying experience in bed, and you found her let's say a 7 on a physical attractiveness scale of say 1-10? Would that be enough for you? What about sexual fantasies?

What if your life and your woman were all you ever dreamed about. Any then a woman you worked with who you'd rate a 9 or 10 came after you with both guns and told you you were everything she ever dreamed of? Told you everything you ever wanted to hear? Told you how your wife never appreciated you? Now let's say you are in your 40's or 50's and staring down the rest of your life? Do you grab hold of what may very well be the last chance at the best times of your life? OR do you look the other way because you are married (even though she acts like you are a piece of furniture)?

I would like to think that it is a lack of values, character defects, etc., but I seriously wonder because there is so much of it. And the people that get caught just look like such idiots that never thought they'd get caught. I can't believe people can really be that stupid.

I have to say, late in life if someone attractive snuggled up to me and told me everything I wanted to hear all my life, while someone that I held close all my life (such as a sig other) never told me anything but what I did wrong, I can't promise I'd be the vision of virtuousity and not take what I would view as the last chance of happiness in this lifetime. . . .

woman's club where men are stripping.

I find a woman beautiful for a lot more than what society views as beauty. The woman that has always been the most beautiful to me is not someone that society would look at as a 10. In my eyes, she was perfect...

The woman that you describe as the 9 or 10 wouldn't even get the time of day from me. If my life were in that place...NO ONE would ever stand a chance of turning my head. NEVER. I am in my mid 40's...so, I don't have to speculate on that.

As for your last paragraph...I would NEVER settle being with someone that was only negative towards me. I have an obligation to myself and my son to be happy and display for him a role model that says HE has a right to be happy when he is older too.

Let me just add that I have never cheated on anyone. I have always gotten into some kind of mischief but it never involved hurting someone. I grew up in good Catholic schools with lots of wholesome values. I idolized my husband and never thought he was even capable of cheating on me. I placed more value on him than me. We've since divorced and I've grown about a bizzillion lightyears, but I'm still not sure where I fit in. I unfortunately (but fortunately) will never blindly trust anyone again).

I heard a feature on NPR's show "All Things Considered" this evening. In it, they discussed some of the reasons men (or maybe even women) seek out prostitutes. Here is the link:

Why Do Men Seek Out Prostitutes?

this little tid bt from MSN SCREAMS no integrity. Look at what he was willing to risk his wife's health on!

In the court papers, an Emperors Club employee was quoted as telling Kristen that Client 9 — Spitzer, according to investigators — "would ask you to do things that ... you might not think were safe," and Kristen responded by saying: "I have a way of dealing with that. ... I'd be, like, listen, dude, you really want the sex?"

A law enforcement official said Tuesday the discussion had to do with Spitzer's preference not to wear a condom and the call-girl's insistence that he use one.

Shattered,

I think when you are talking about the situation such as the Gov of NY, you are really talking about ONE WORD...POWER.

He did it because he could, and felt entitled to do it. Why did Bill do it in the White House and before? Power. I'll refrain from Hillary comments for a moment.

But, there could possibly be something else that is not stated: separation. Given the amount of travel, the hours, the obligations, I would bet good money their intimate life was NOT good. Not because his W was not good enough looking, or good enough in bed. What she was...was NOT in his life really. She had her own life, and he had his.

Now you throw in power, normal male drives, opportunity and what do you get? Someone doing something STUPID. Women have been known to abuse power and there are legendary stories of past female monarchs who had alot of power.

Look at adultery. It has NEVER been solely a male activity but with women in the work place, traveling more, having their own lives, they are acheiving equality in yet another category, aren't you proud? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Opportunity, power, and distance within the marriage are bad bad things.

Just my thoughts.

God Bless,

JL

I would also like to read some responses from men on this subject. I personally think that every man's reason may be a little different, and this is a very complex topic that can't be easily attributed to one or two reasons. I have been told that some men use prostitutes because they don't want to risk an emotional attachment but need something sexual that they aren't getting in the relationship with the woman they love. Perhaps these men feel like if they keep it a business arrangement then they aren't really being unfaithful to their wife.

I would like to know what men think about this as well.
It just seems like sometimes nothing is enough. I have always kept myself looking attractive, I have a good job, I exercise, I kept my home clean and my WH did not go without SF but it still wasn't enough. Is anything ever enough? it just seems like some men will always find someone they think may be better no matter how good we look, no matter how much we do to make them happy. My WH never told me there was anything before he cheated so how would I know if he wanted something from me I wasn't giving. It's really sad how some men will throw it all away just for sex.

I have been told that some men use prostitutes because they don't want to risk an emotional attachment but need something sexual that they aren't getting in the relationship with the woman they love. Perhaps these men feel like if they keep it a business arrangement then they aren't really being unfaithful to their wife.
*****************************

my H falls into this category.......I think it is pretty common. Someone mentioned the man's ability to compartmentalize......I think many men who lack values can compartmentalize sex w/ a hooker as not being unfaithful to their wife.
I know a woman who has the same attitude......she is in banking and travels for work...her attitude about casual sex (ONS not prostitutes) and emotional attachment are exactly as stated above. She can easily separate them and feels no guilt about it.

This is a very interesting thread. I was trying to have the same conversation w/ my H last night, it didn't go so well. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

There's a natural tendency to assume that men visit prostitutes becuase they're not getting any - or it's not sufficiently racy - at home.

Speaking from personal experience, I have to say that our sex-life was frequent and very satisfying; what I learn from my FWH was that visiting prostitutes was 'exciting' and that it 'felt like doing something just for me'. He came home every night, and as I now know, often had SF with me after he'd been with a prostitute.

As far as I can work out, his desire came from an immature feeling that he hadn't experienced the full range of sex that he was 'entitled' to. He was excited by doing something 'naughty', and felt that as long as he hid it from me, it wasn't affecting the marriage. The fact that the sexual encounter was made easy, with no need for complex emotions or social skills, was a release from the demands of a normal relationship. He was extremely good at compartmentalising; it was only when the two parts of his life began to collide that it all fell apart.

At home, I found him sexually rather prim. He made me feel that I was slightly dirty for suggesting anything out of the ordinary.

I wouldn't suspect the Governor's wife of frigidity too quickly.

TA

There is obviously a difference between men and women or otherwise the majority of prostitutes and others in the sex trade would not be female. I would sure like to understand what it is.

**My H did the same thing. He never spoke of his frustration over wanting more sex or more time together. He just went looking elsewhere. A marriage of 19+ years held no importance over his sex drive. Also,for us, we live in a small rural New England town and he found his connections thru a website created for such things. He met 3 women living within 50 miles of our home for sexual encounters. Our D-Day came about after he 'fell' for number 3 and made it a year long affair.

I'm sure guys do things like this for various reasons, but in my opinion deep down physical attraction is what drives it.

I have always been very attracted to my W for MANY reasons (Looks, personality, etc), but at the same time was physically attracted to other women as well. I knew I would never pursue anything with them as long as I was with my wife/significant other, so I never really thought about it being harmful. But I realized my attraction and weakness and kept it in check.

On the other hand, my wife claimed she was never really attracted to other guys, and I believed this. I also believe that SHE believed this, which is why I was never jealous and trusted her deeply. She also was very specific about not messing around with me in any way until we were pretty far along in our relationship. So what happens when one guy shows some interest after a few drinks and she finds herself attracted to him and alone? They wind up having sex. We were engaged at the time.

So why do things like this happen? I dunno, and she can't really answer either. But I have always (and still do) have a big physical attraction to women, and I have managed to stay out of trouble, even though I have been tempted.

Having said all of that, why do men seek prostitutes? Well, let's make a guess and say that an equal amount of men and women go outside of their marriage for SF. I don't know if it's true or not, but my guess is it probably is. If a woman wants a night of exciting, meaningless sex, she can walk into a bar any night she wants and have several choices. Lots of single guys looking to "hook up".

On the other hand, a guy walks into the same bar and and in most cases there may be only one or two single girls looking to hook up or whatever. Prostitues are a sure thing. A bar alone is a sure thing for a girl. That's probably the draw of prostitues for guys.

It seems to be very natural for people to assume that: if a married man visits a prostitute, his wife must not be 'enough.' I think that's analogous to saying if a person cheats on their spouse, the spouse must not have been meeting the cheater's ENs. While the latter MAY be true, it's not a definite given. It doesn't always correlate that way.

Similarly, when a wife discovers her husband using porn, it often makes them feel as if they aren't 'enough,' and the husband will sincerely claim that it doesn't have anything to do with his wife.

I've heard stories that many married clients of prostitutes tell them they love their wives so much but don't feel like they can do this with them. I think there can definitely be a 'Madonna/******' issue where the husband wants to have hot sex, but doesn't see his wife in that way. He sees her as the mother of his children, not as a sex-loving slut.

It may be tru that a woman CAN walk into the bar and walk out with a guy of her choice for meaningless sex, but realistically, how many women actually do this? Especially married women? In my experience, women may go to bars to "pick up" guys, but basically "use" them to pay for drinks and leave them in the lurch at last call. Once in a blue moon, she might like someone enough to take him home.

The other major inequity in behaviors is on online dating sites. My GF and I were browsing through one and it had a category for "intimate encounters". Within a 10 mile radius of her place, selecting scorpio only, there were 100's of men profiled under this category. She lives in a rural area - I was actually surprised there were that many men of any kind within 10 miles of her house. We only looked at a few of them, but they were ALL married and they ALL didn't want their spouses to find out. We did the same search for women, broadened it to include all zodiac signs and 50 mile radius and came up with 5.

The type of affair where the WS and OP "fall in love" or whatever crap that causes them to leave their BS's and families (as opposed to being thrown out because they were caught) is definitely equally men and women. But the one-night-stand/casual sex thing? I have a really hard time believing women engage in this to the same degree as men.

You're probably right. Which makes what happened in my case even more disappointing. Why was my *fiance* one of the few when she wasn't even that type of girl?

To the topic of this post however, if there is that BIG of a difference between the amount of men and women looking for casual sex, wouldn't that say that it has to have a physiological relationship? For all the BW's that are about to yell "Genetics are not an excuse"... I'm NOT saying it's an excuse. I will admit, I have been very tempted and I think about sex a lot, and yes, I have caught myself thinking that way about other women. But I have always in the end decided that there was no way it was worth hurting my wife or my relationship.

I have no problem understanding that men (in general) have a greater physiological need for SF. I'm fine with that. But back to the OP's question - if they are getting plenty of SF at home, why do they need it elsewhere as well? What can/does a prostitute provide that a loving wife cannot/does not?

And being attracted to someone and/or tempted is not the same as being adulterous. Not of you resist those temptations. If your SF at home is good, why is resisting these so hard?

Well, who is to say he is getting plenty of SF at home?

Assuming he is getting plenty at home, then it's a very tough question to answer. I can't complain about the SF I get at home, but I do still get tempted by other women. Maybe it's the "grass is greener" thing? Excitement in it being "different"? The feeling you get from knowing another person is that attracted to you? There are probably a million factors, none of which should add up to enough to cheat on your spouse, but they are there.

I've been asking the same question of my wife on why she had a one night stand while we were engaged, and she really can't answer other than she thought he was good looking, he flattered her by flirting with her, and she had a few drinks which probably affected her decision making.

Another possibilty may be the thrill of the chase. Girls KNOW they can hit the bar and come home with a guy if they want, so it's no challenge nor is it fun. If they succeed, they just feel like a slut that gave it up for some scum bag guy.

Guys try ALL THE TIME and rarely succeed, so in the rare event that a girl expresses interest back...... well there you have it. They feel like a stud.

I will say this. Most married men out there (at least 90% of the ones I know) do not see any problem with flirting at the bar or something while out on business. It's the chase. We never expect it to be returned, and if it is, it makes us feel good (pathetic, I know).

Reading this back to myself still doesn't answer the question.

How about this: People get into routine sex with their own partners, and they might be afraid to ask for something crazy or different. It's important to keep it fresh which admittedly can be hard to do. With a prostitute, she'll do whatever you want if you just pay her enough and you don't have to feel bad for asking. I dunno!

It's a tough question, because just like cheating in general, there is no good excuse.

yes, it is called immaturity. having to have yourself validated by someone else is very immature.



Again, this displays a lack of maturity.

I thought I would comment on your post, and then I ran head on into your last line:

"Any takers men? What's up with you and sex?"

LOL, for most men that IS the criterion.

Any takers indeed.


I just read where investigators now say Spitzer spent upwards of $80,000 on just the high end prostitutes they know about. There is more to this than the sex.

The Myth of the Victimless Crime
By MELISSA FARLEY and VICTOR MALAREK

WHAT do we know about the woman Gov. Eliot Spitzer allegedly hired as a prostitute? She was the one person he ignored in his apology. What is she going through now? Is she in danger from organized crime because of what she knows? Is anyone offering her legal counsel or alternatives to prostitution?

“I’m here for a purpose,” she said in a conversation with her booking agent after meeting with Governor Spitzer, according to the affidavit of the F.B.I agent who investigated the prostitution ring. “I know what my purpose is. I’m not a ... moron, you know what I mean.”

Her purpose, as a man who knew patiently explained, is “renting” out an organ for 10 minutes. Men rent women through the Internet or by cellphone as if they were renting a car. And now, in response to the news about Governor Spitzer, pundits are wading into the age-old debates over whether prostitution is a victimless crime or whether women are badly hurt in prostitution no matter what they’re paid.

Whose theory is it that prostitution is victimless? It’s the men who buy prostitutes who spew the myths that women choose prostitution, that they get rich, that it’s glamorous and that it turns women on.

But most women in prostitution, including those working for escort services, have been sexually abused as children, studies show. Incest sets young women up for prostitution — by letting them know what they’re worth and what’s expected of them. Other forces that channel women into escort prostitution are economic hardship and racism.

The Emperor’s Club presented itself as an elite escort service. But aside from charging more, it worked like any other prostitution business. The pimps took their 50 percent cut. The Emperor’s Club often required that the women provide sex twice an hour. One woman who was wiretapped indicated that she couldn’t handle that pressure. The ring operated throughout the United States and Europe. The transport of women for prostitution was masked by its description as “travel dates.”

Telephone operators at the Emperor’s Club criticized one of the women for cutting sessions with buyers short so that she could pick up her children at school. “As a general rule,” one said, “girls with children tend to have a little more baggage going on.”

Whether the woman is in a hotel room or on a side street in someone’s car, whether she’s trafficked from New York to Washington or from Mexico to Florida or from the city to the suburbs, the experience of being prostituted causes her immense psychological and physical harm. And it all starts with the buyer.

Melissa Farley is the author of “Prostitution and Trafficking in Nevada: Making the Connections.” Victor Malarek is the author of “The Natashas: Inside the New Global Sex Trade.”

Men are programmed to pursue something. If they aren't out on the savanna, they will seek stimulation elsewhere. It's hardwired into the hypothalamus of the male primate. Remember the monkey study? Male monkeys will "pay" to view female monkey bottoms.

The traits that served our early ancestors are now creating some really strange, bizarre and distorted outcomes. It is quite possible that male brains are not well suited to handle this modern-day overload of erotic stimulation and power without losing their equilibrium. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

well, for those that buy that man has evoled from monkey's...I guess they will buy anything.

let's not forget that it is the woman being the HO that is offering her services. Personally, I think the HO is worse than the john. Perhaps a womans brain is not evolved enough to cope with the modern day economics and revert to what she knows best.

> well, for those that buy that man has evoled from monkey's...I guess they will buy anything.

Evolved or created, we share something like 98% of the same genetic code with primates.

I'd pay to see a monkey's butt, depending on what it's doing with it, that is. I guess I do every time I visit the zoo, in fact.

I thought that once too...but I don't believe that the ape genetic code has ever been mapped...so a true comparison couldn't be done without that.

Yeah..I guess I pay to see monkey butts too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Research Monkey’s Genetic Code Deciphered: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18079607/

Scientists Complete Genetic Map of the Chimpanzee: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/31/AR2005083102278.html


ed: They plan to map Spitzer next.

This is a good article, but I sure wish people would start mentioning that no act of prositution is ever "victimless" when the guy is married.

Look at how former-governor (ha!) Spitzer has victimized his own family:

He's shown his wife that she is just a commodity to him, like a car or a house or some kind of appliance, and that he feels free to shove her aside and totally disregard her whenever he's got the chance for some hot new p*ssy. This is how normal people relate to cars and TV sets, not to other human beings.

He's also shown her that he has no regard whatsoever for her health and well-being by paying extra for no-condom sex with a wh*re.

He's shown his three teen-age daughters that their father - the man whom they have loved and trusted like no other since they were born - is really just a lying pig who orders up wh*res like pizza anytime he thinks Mom won't know.

He's also seared it into their brains that this is what they can expect from men they think they can love and trust - to be lied to and utterly disregarded as a human being.

What a pig this man is. And there are countless more like him, wearing the faces of fine upstanding men in public and vicimizing their families in the coldest possible ways behind closed doors.

Yeah, tell me again how prostituion is "victimless".
Mulan

> "...is really just a lying pig who orders up wh*res like pizza anytime he thinks Mom won't know."

Well, OK, but they are expensive specialty ho pizzas with extra cheese. Let’s give the man his due.

So, there is no way to ever meet the needs of a man like that. If I am are married to a man like that and I am willing to meet his SF needs he will think I am a sleazy woman? Even though I may be willing to have sex with him because he's my husband he will reject me because he can only be sexual with other women because he thinks I as his wife is too good to have sex with.

A man who uses that type of logic will always have an affair because he will never let himself enjoy SF with his own wife. That makes me very sad, because I hope I am not married to a man like that. The fact that my WH has cheated more than once and has too many women "friends" to meet his needs makes me wonder if that's what's going on in his mind.
We don't have any kids so I am not sure the Madonna/**** really fits my situation.

We don't have any kids so I am not sure the Madonna/**** really fits my situation.
******************************

Makes no difference if you have not had children....the complex has been developed for awhile....it is in place while he is dating and when he chooses his wife.
A man CAN overcome it, but it takes work.
What have you and your H done to recover from his affairs so far?

He's also shown her that he has no regard whatsoever for her health and well-being by paying extra for no-condom sex with a wh*re.
*********************************

have you seen the pictures of her?
I am sure we will be seeing LOTS more of her....she will be a celebrity in no time.
More salt to rub int he wounds of Sritzers W and daughters.

He is a pig. BUT, he is no more of a pig than any other person that has stepped out on their spouse. Almost every WS that I have read about here was willing to risk their partners health while they had their own filthy needs met with their affair partner.

There are just as many women that put on the front of being a fine upstanding person in public..and acting like a pig behind the scenes. It doesn't matter the gender...or their position in the public eye...WS are all dirt bags. What he does from this point forward....as what every other WS does after disclosure is what is important. There is not a soul on these boards that doesn't know the devastation of infidelity...there is not a child of ours that hasn't been impacted every bit as much as his children. Sure they have more of a burden to bear in the public eye...BUT, I guarantee you, they will also have a lot more people willing to step up and help them...unlike the forgotten children of so many other affairs that suffer in horrible silence.
There are countless numbers of women out there today..as I write this...that are victimizing their families. They deserve our scorn every bit as much as Spitzer and every other WH.

Let's be careful to remember that this issue is not gender specific. I agree that prostitution is a horrible crime with a lot of victims...it literally sucks. Giving it away for free...getting it for free is no better or worse. It is all horrible.

I don't think he has ever really done anything to recover. I gave him forgiveness because he cried and did not want to leave the house after the affairs but he hasn't changed anything. I come from a family that just believes in staying married no matter what so I didn't really know how to handle it. I would believe he would change because he would act like he was sorry but then the behavior hasn't really changed. He still insists on not sending No contact letters and comes up with excuses not to stop contact with women he calls his friends. So that isn't really anywhere near being recovered. I am filing for LSA and if he wants to show me real changes we will have to go from there.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> And so, that makes you like what? The missing link? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


The male monkeys "pay" to see the FEMALE monkey's butt--they were not interested in looking at the butt of another male.
That's ANOTHER experiment! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Spitzer is part of a long line of politicians with fast zippers. You can chaulk up JFK, Lyndon, Fanny Fox mess, and the comment by, (if memory serves) Everett Dirkson to the effect that a good politician has to be able to drink their (Lobbiest) whiskey, take their money and screw their women the night before they voted against them.

Not using a condom is part of the power deal, where he felt he was invulnerable from the mundane that afficts lessor humans.

Some pols screw prostitutes, some screw Lobbiests, both male and female, and some screw women looking for whatever. The later confuses me I guess because I don't understand how women can con themselves into thinking it is anything but being a convenient and temporary hole. Monica is reputed to have said she was going to Washington with her knee pads. Is it all about being close to power?

I have no pity for Spitzer, but I do feel sorry for his wife and kids.

Larry

Monica is reputed to have said she was going to Washington with her knee pads.

Is it all about being close to power?
******************************

Yes, for some it truly is. I have a friend who told her H,
"if Bill Clinton came on to me, I'd **** him, I'd have to he's the president... I may never get an opportunity like that again" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

And, it's not like she really liked him or even thought he was handsome.....for some, it really IS about being close to power...that is somehow a turn on for them.
Guess it's not too much different than rock or movie star groupies. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

And. . .

Here is Bill O's take on Spitzer. . . O'Reilly thinks Spitzer is self destructive. He may be right.

http://www.billoreilly.com/column;jsessionid=9791937E2833B055F383225E06A7C3ED?pid=23152

Larry

they are all wh0res in their own way Larry...every one of them that screw around...male or female..the famous ones and the ones that let themselves be used.

Maybe I'm conceited, but I've always thought of prostitutes as beneath me...even so-called "high class" escorts aren't anywhere near good enough for me...not even to use as a living receptacle. I can do better on my own.

I've always thought that men who use hookers are either very lazy, or lack the ability to pick up women on their own.

Me? I simply have no need for them. I'm no cheater, but if I was, it would be easy to find a f_ckbuddy on my own. Free of charge.

high class escort would be the epitome of an oxymoron

Exactly.

***********************

and Gentlemen's Clubs.

Mulan, I object to that quote! Pigs are nice animals, and friendly. (Also, pigs do not order pizza.)



Guys, I've been off the MB site for some months now, but it took Spitzer to drive me back on.

Actually, no, not Spitzer so much as the bloggers. I keep hearing about Spitzer's "needs." These aren't "needs" -- they are compulsions, desires, whims, but not "needs."

Need is when you don't have the gas money to car pool your kids from school. Need is when you don't have heating in your house in the wintertime. Need is when you are crawling on your hands and knees through Death Valley and haven't had water for hours.

Have we become so spoiled and self-indulgent as a people that we no longer know the difference? I'm puzzled and alarmed.

I'm also alarmed by the comments from Kristen's family. The mother says she has a "close" relationship with her daughter, yet she didn't know she was a hooker. She said she got into something "over her head." C'mon! She's 22. Didn't someone tell her it's not nice to screw for money? Isn't that rather the job of a mother? I know they are in the spotlight -- but it's everyone's total lack of horror that 22-year-olds from a middle-class homes increasingly turn to ****** for their pin money.

I'm not cracking down on Mrs. What's-her-name -- just on a kind of mindset that seems to have taken hold internationally that it's okay to rent out your genitals if there's a market for them.

Someone wrote on a website that they have had to negotiate for bad jobs with no genital contact and it's "the same." Is it really? Washing dishes in a restaurant is the same as having sex. Huh??????

I'm sooooooo glad I'm not in any relationship at all, if this is the kind of thing one has to deal with in the world nowadays. People don't seem to have any value for the sexuality, for themselves, other than what can be established in a marketplace.

I even find Harley's remarks on p.1 a little discouraging. About how men feel "trapped" by marital promises when their wives aren't available for sex. How about us? If a man has been screaming at you all day, sometimes you're just happy to go to bed and call it a day. The idea of throwing off your clothes and making yourself vulnerable to such a person is the last thing on your mind. How do people become so disconnected from their sexuality that it's something that you do without any context -- like drinking coffee? I don't think it's "normal" -- although it may be commonplace throughout the ages. Sex is one side of us that should be harmonized with our emotions and mind. It's not about finding a particular kind of [censored] or boobs that you like -- it's about finding a person you can love.

For all the people above who talk about how maybe the wife isn't satisfying his "needs" -- suppose a wife (or husband) has cancer and isn't satisfying "needs"? Is it okay to dump him/her for a tootsie or a stud? After all, these are "needs" aren't they? Increasingly, I find that the answer in American society is "yes, it's okay to dump."

Just read an article about the crashing of the American libido. The average American has sex 165 times a year. Huh??? I've been chaste since the end of my marriage. And I know so many women, especially middle-aged women, who can't find anyone nice. So the rest of y'all must be going at it like rabbits. Don't people have hobbies anymore? Has sex become ALL that people are about?

I'm finding the world so discouraging in this regard that it's driven me back to MB to find some fellow-travelers.

It's all so sad.

I found this interesting article on EA's while reading through the paper today.



Emotional infidelity – it's worse
SARAH HAMPSON

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

March 13, 2008 at 3:32 AM EDT

In her fitted pale blue jacket, a double strand of pearls at her neck, Silda Wall Spitzer looked crestfallen as she stood beside her husband, New York Governor Eliot Spitzer, while he made a public apology in Manhattan on Monday after being named as Client 9 in a high-end prostitution ring.

Bad as the news was, and it was a devastating blow to his career and to the couple's family life, it could have been worse for her.

He could have been engaged in an emotional affair.

Emotional infidelity is a relationship in which you are involved in an intercourse of words. There is no sex. You are getting naked only with your feelings. It may feel harmless, but counter to what common wisdom would suggest, it is far more painful for the wronged spouse.

"As a marriage counsellor, I have an easier time healing a couple where someone has had a one-night stand than in a situation where someone is having an emotional affair and never had sex with the person," says M. Gary Neuman, a psychotherapist in Florida and author of several books, including the Oprah-endorsed Emotional Infidelity.

The prevalence of emotional affairs is unquantifiable - who is going to admit to something they feel is harmless? But many therapists suggest that the Internet age of easy online communication encourages people to seek and find emotional outlets outside their marriages. The workplace can also promote emotionally intimate relationships.

"The trend has been that the more women are out in or connected to the world, the more likely they are to have affairs of any kind," says Mira Kirshenbaum, a couples therapist, author and clinical director of the Chestnut Hill Institute in Boston, whose new book, When Good People Have Affairs, will be published this spring. "Women are more likely to have emotional affairs than men, because for many women emotional connection precedes sexual connection," she adds.

Some therapists warn about the dangers of the emotional affair by pointing to the secrecy that can be involved. Say you encountered an old flame online and started a torrid

e-mail exchange with him, would you be likely to tell your spouse? The very act of keeping something from the other in a marriage suggests there is something shameful or wrong.

But a far more damaging effect of an emotionally intense liaison is the energy that is drained from your marriage, says Mr. Neuman, a husband and father of five. Secrecy is not the issue, he explains. One spouse could know of the existence of the "special friend" and still be devastated to discover how much emotional entanglement exists.

"What people need to understand is that we only have so much emotional energy, and the more emotional energy put outside the marriage, the less emotional energy we have within our marriage. It's a simple equation. Once the balance has shifted to where it seems that the majority of your emotional self is outside the marriage and the immediate family, as in spouse and children, then you are playing with fire."

The stress of modern life in a dual-career family, especially when there are children, minimizes the time couples spend with each other, which in turn encourages emotional attachments elsewhere. "It becomes easier to be overwhelmed and never stopping to be really connected to our spouses," Mr. Neuman says.

Mr. Spitzer - a 48-year-old father of three - had the ultimate in what is termed "meaningless sex." It was purely transactional, only worth the thousands he paid for it. When informed by the booking agent for the Emperors Club VIP that Kristen would be the woman who would come to his room at Washington's Mayflower Hotel on Feb. 13, he is reported to have responded, "Great, okay, wonderful."

And then, investigators said, he asked to be reminded what the petite, pretty, 5-foot-5 and 105-pound American looked like. If he had had an assignation with her before, or perused her picture on the club's website, clearly he could not remember. He apparently didn't care who would be his pre-Valentine treat.

"Meaningless sex is a problem. Don't get me wrong," Mr. Neuman says. "But it's far easier for the wife to get over it than if she thinks her husband is in love with another person. And it's easier for the guy, too. He can move on and stop the behaviour more easily than when he is in love with someone else."

Thankfully, when sex is involved, there's the required admission of guilt, which can be cathartic. The cheater gets to express remorse. The wife, in this case, can try to understand why he did it.

"The pain goes down because it becomes more just about the sexual content. It's the emotional content that really hurts," Mr. Neuman says. To recover, the spouse who was sexually unfaithful should tell the other "how and when he did it ... and details that would help her feel secure in the future." The rebuilding of trust may require the one who cheated to make himself or herself available constantly by cellphone.

An emotional affair is far more difficult to verify and police. What counts as evidence? More than half an hour a day of conversation? Up to three e-mail exchanges a night? An added problem is that the spouse who worries that the other is too emotionally engaged with a member of the opposite sex may not want to force a confrontation about the relationship, out of fear of appearing jealous.

Reportedly, Ms. Spitzer was encouraging her husband of 20 years not to resign his position when he was hunkered down in their Manhattan apartment earlier this week, trying to decide on a course of action. Perhaps she understands the significance of his transgression.

After all, in her husband's infidelity, it wasn't his heart he unzipped. It was just his fly.

Well, er, uh, YES. . .

TV, CABLE, Movies, Magazines (Cosmo), books, yes, sex is sold even (especially) in advertisements for all sorts of products. It is a barrage, a deluge of sex, as it were.

The relative difference between purient sales to males is that the milder versions are sold in plain wrappers in convenience stores. Even the steamier versions that appeal to females can be found at WalMart.

Heck, take a look at Desperate Housewives, where one of the "Ladies" is boofing her yardboy.

I am not at all sure what drives women, but I am acquainted with one of the driving forces that afflict males; the prostate, which fills up to the point of spontaneous emmission if not handled correctly from time to time.

Larry

i have to t/j for a moment to say this "medc, i have to tell you, it is RARELY that i disagree with any of your posts. you say it as it is and to me, are very realistic. no sugar coating. you have posted many things that i would loved to have posted, but i guess was concerned with the ensuing backlash! just wanted to say, you most usually write exactly what i myself are thinking. keep up the good HONEST work!"

ok, t/j over.

my 2 cents? some people just always want what they don't have or what someone else has. look at some of the drop dead gorgeous women in hollywood who have had spouses cheat on them. i always wonder "wtf?" she's totally hot, why would a man cheat on her? i dunno. i give up. i do what i do for me, i take care of myself for me, i try to look my best FOR ME. hopefully, one day, that will be enough for a man.

mlhb

Thank you MLHB...baclash...what backlash. Lol!

Hey, why would Hugh Grant cheat on Elizabeth Hurley with a woman that looked like a cross between a man and a crack addict??? Oh, wait...he could.

I appreciate your nice words. And I will keep doing what I do.

This is exactly the kind of thinking I'm talking about. People can't even imagine why Prince Charles would prefer to kick back with Camilla. Because they were evaluating her on a tits-and-[censored] basis. Even those that defended her defended her on the basis of her appearance ("she looks better in person") than her qualities as a human being.

Is it all about fannies and tits? I know to some extent it always has been.

But what about integrity, character? What about ... well, love?

Doesn't it exist anymore beyond passing sexual infatuations? Doesn't it exist beyond sexual attraction?

We are all going to grow old and infirm, unless we die young. Can we count on the one who drops first being dumped so that the significant other can pursue some self-serving fantasy?

I think it is fine to look at it from the T&A perspective when there are no emotions involved(prostitute sex)...Camilla was not a prostitute (well, not a paid one anyway). The EN being met is sex...nothing deep and meaningful.

I don't get your point though...it is ALL about a lack of integrity and character...all of it. Sure love and character should exist beyond attraction...for most they do...

I'm not sure they do for most. And I think it's deceptive to think that "no emotions are involved." Spitzer was desperately seeking a mood music CD for the hotel room. It was all about emotions. It was all about fantasy -- the fantasy that she was engaging in consensual sex, and wanted to be with him. He wsa trying to impress her.

If you read the website for the Emperor's Club, they talk about how the hookers have only a limited number of engagements a month, so that your appointment is "special" for the both of you. The whole thing is designed to make it emotional -- a cheap, purchased kind of fantasy emotion, admittedly, but an emotion nonetheless. Look at the magazines, the movies, the advertisements. That's what it all seems to be about nowadays. It's not just "them," it's everywhere.

"Casual sex" is a huge illusion, for the most part. Because our emotions are also attached to our genitals. Unless we become so desensitized and dissociated that it doesn't matter anymore -- unless we all become prostitutes, in fact.

Go back and look at some of the movies from the 1930s and 1940s. The dumpling shaped women with conservative hairdos and modest clothes to match their matronly figures are TEN YEARS YOUNGER THAN I AM, for the most part. Those are women in their 40s and 50s.

I'm not arguing about letting oneself go to seed -- but everything in our culture is so sexually driven that we are not allowed to grow old, let one's hair go gray, put on a few pounds after menopause (or the male equivalent). If we do, we give our spouses the perfect justification for dumping us for Kristen.

Read the blogs and the commentators. Watch how they talk about whether Mrs. Spitzer is "hot," in addition to her role as a high-powered corporate attorney and mother of three. Read what they say: if she's not "hot," he's "entitled" to seek sex elsewhere.