What constitutes an Emotional Affair?
Here's a quiz re EAs...
http://www.shirleyglass.com/quizfriendship.phpIMHO, I think any kind of "friendship" with someone of the opposite sex in which one keeps ANY type of communication...email/phone call or text...a secret from their spouse is a red flag of crossing over into emotional infidelity...
I think an EA is when you are investing more into OP than your spouse. It goes beyond the casual interactions of day to day life to include getting some of your ENs met by OP.
For instance, my FWHs business partner is a woman. They see each other daily. They talk daily. But they discuss business and little else. They don't "anticipate" the next time they will see each other. I am privy to any and all conversations that they might have. They don't meet in private...there is no "appearance of inappropriateness."
Now, if my FWH is having lunch with an OW and talking about his personal life with her. If he is scheduling time to be alone with her and not sharing his discussions with me. More importantly, if he is gettings some of his ENs met by her, it's too much. If there is ANY APPEARANCE of inappropriateness, then it is not ok.
Generally speaking from my experience of two years watching an EA (and PA that snuck in there too), your gut will tell you if it is too much. Red flags are a pretty good indication of something that isn't right.
Does that help? Just my perspective.
Thanks that is very insightful and helpful
I agree with thisbitterpill.
My rule is:
If you wouldn't say it/type it with your SO standing over your shoulder, it's wrong.
In line with what Krazy said ~ and I actually put this in my original post and then edited it out ~ I also have heard that any time someone is discussing marital problems with a friend of the opposite sex, coworker, is a danger zone.
This was actually the start of FWH's slippery slope in his "friendship" with FOW. He swears that he really didn't think much of her before the first conversation in which she started confessing her problems with her fiance to him at work. W/n a short period of time...something like a week...their secret phone calls started...
Thanks for sharing your story. it has been beneficial.
My H is the OW's boss. She came to him when she was in distress over a personal issue. He decided it would be great to 'fix' her. So, he enlisted me and we embarked upon a pick me up for his co-worker. I invited her here to our home for dinner and got the shock of my life. At this time H was oblivious, but I saw what she was dishing out right in my own home. She made no bones about the fact that they spent countless time together working on this particular project at work and she also made it very clear that she had the upper hand as far as timing went, as she was with him all day. I alerted H to it as soon as she left and he was amazed that I would accuse her of such a thing. Red flag #1..
Cut to three weeks later when I notice a lot of time is being spent with OW. He finally admits that he's attracted to her but will not make any changes. He assures me that he loves me and has no intention of breaking our vows...yup! I listened. Anyway, he never broke any vows as far as a physical affair, but the emotional stuff hurt a ton. This started out as a simple friendship that went haywire. If
If your gut is telling you something is amiss, it most likely is. I jumped in immediately and it still took me almost an entire year to rid this influence from my H mind. She contaminated everything that once was sweet and nice. He let her do it. So, again...follow your gut. I never had a voice recorder (frankly, I'd be afraid of what i might hear). I looked at email and checked the phone log. To this day, when I come downstairs in the morning, I hit redial on the phone in the kitchen to make sure no call was made to the wenches house. I am still scared when i drive my son to work because I have to pass the train station and I'm afraid I'll see them together. Mind you, I never have, but the mind plays terrible tricks on you when you're in suspicious mode.
Sadly, I feel expert on this, so feel free to pick my brain. It's tough to get through, but it can be done. Good luck.
Quick edit...
My husband WAS the OW boss. He no longer is.
Fiori, Thanks for your personal story. I found emails from my Bf well now ex, but am still dealing with the hurtful emotional betrayal. I found emails that were to another woman who is supposedly going to be in the same type of business as him but working at a different office. Well I found emails that said things such as "you sure were lookin good" and "I was just starring at you." I also found one that said he called her all the time but he kept getting voicemail and couldn't get in touch with her. And he is anxious for her to come back from out of town and when can they get together.
I found other emails asking if he were to take another job working 45 min away if she would be able to fall for him or would be be off limits. This was so painful for me to read and realize.
This was the person I was engaged to and was supposed to marry. Of couse he denies that he cheated or had an affair. Emails said she makes him tremble when she touches him and that he didn't want to let her go when he was holding on to her. Well that sounds like an affair to me. What do you think?
if it walks like a duck.....
mlhb
Yes, what you know is an affair in and of itself, and it sounds very likely that it was a physical affair, if I were you, I wouldn't even bother investigating further, you know enough to know you should walk away. That sounds harsh, but you aren't married, and you shouldn't get married to this man. It is going to be very hard for you to realize and appreciate this now, but you should thank your lucky stars you discovered this before you married. Most here were not so fortunate.
Use the information here to learn how to build a strong relationship, and apply that knowledge next time.
Sadly, I agree with Tyk. It's different when you're not married. Those who are have way much more to lose and almost HAVE to give the love and relationship another try. Not all do, but those who are quality people know the right thing. I remember after my H spoke to our Deacon, the Deacon saw me in Church and simply put his hand on my shoulder and said "He knows the right thing to do." I think, deep down inside, you do to. If this man cannot be true to you now, do your best to walk away. I know it sounds easy coming from someone who is not in your position, but the duck statement sticks. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck..it's a duck.
I'd probably show him copies of the emails I do have and see what his response is. Others here would probably not do that so I'm not sure what's right or wrong. Go with your gut. Your answer may be in his reaction. I'll think of you. Good luck
I agree with those above. And I can imagine getting this advice and how hard it would be to swallow...but you aren't married yet. Don't get married to this man. At least not now. And I say that because I do think that people can change...but don't let yourself start a marriage with this challenge already facing you. Marriage is hard enough without that kind of trouble.
My FWH and I have been married 11 years with three kids, we don't have the luxury of deciding not to marry. And I don't know if I would have been able to follow my advice to you. It's not fair. It will hurt. But it will hurt so much more if this becomes a part of your marriage. Accept that it will hurt, but move on.
I also agree that it was definitely physical. You may not want to accept that in your head, but you probably feel it already in your heart. It took me hearing it from my FWH mouth before I could actually believe what others knew for FOUR YEARS.
((((youngandlearning))))
For those of you not familiar with YAL's history, the man she's talking about is abusive. He threw hot coffee on her and inside her car, he strangled her, he corraled her in a room and would not let her leave, he separated her from her friends, he sold her puppy (!), told her no one else would want her, I forget what else, and then drew her back in again, praying on her need to be wanted by someone, anyone, all the while getting it on with these other women. She has only been away from him (for the 3rd or 4th time) for a week. Bad news all around.
With that said...There is ABSOLUTELY NO QUESTION. LEAVE HIM.
Call a woman's shelter, make a plan, and leave! You are worth so much more than that. I was in a relationship similar to the one you're in and I escaped...at the time, I didn't realize what I needed to escape from (I was completely caught in the relationship). I was lucky enough to go away to college and see him from a distance. I still fear him.
Leave, please.
By all means leave him. He flunked the husband test.
Then get some counseling to figure out why you stayed this long.
Thank you HTM for sharing your painful experience. I am sorry you went thru that for four years! Are you still with him?
I know I confronted Exbf about the emails and all he says is it was wrong, "but it was just flirting so that I could get a referral from her in the future." "She didn't have my emotions or my love." Blah Blah Blah. Of couse he tried to deny that it was meaningful and when I brought up the trembling when she touches him and hugging and not wanting to let go, he said that he was giving her flattery so that he would get clients from her in the future hopefully...I think that is a crock! He said he told her she looks good because women want to be told they are pretty and be given compliments...which doesn't change the fact that it is being "unfaithful".
I do hurt and hurt badly, but I know in my gut and heart that being away from him for good is best for ME.
Why on earth are you wasting time trying to figure out what an emotional affair is? Abuse is more than enough reason to get him out of your life forever!
YnL,
I am still with my FWH. We are only two months into recovery, but I know that we will be ok in the end. There are many differences in our stories though. My FWH had an A and in that sense he was abusive, but he has never physically harmed or threatened me. I think this is an important difference to point out. (You can read my story on my thread "Recovery between Work, School and Soccer?")
Believer is right. You are focusing on the wrong problem. The EA (or PA which is what I suspect) may be easier for you to face and thus you are spending your time trying to "solve" that problem, but you really need to look at your own safety and well-being. If this man has been physically abusive to you, you need to leave. It will not get better. No matter what he says. No matter how much it hurts to leave. It will only get worse.
Talk with your family and friends. Make a plan to leave and lean on them for support. Do not allow yourself to fall back into his grasp. He is very much like an addiction that you don't believe you can live without. This is how he has TRAINED you to believe.
I left my abusive relationship feeling ugly, worthless, and saying "He only hit me three times, but twice I deserved it." I am an intelligent, independent woman and I still fell victim to this. People on the outside could see it, but I couldn't. Even when it was really bad, I defended him. He separated me from my family and friends. He had several affairs and convinced me it was all in my head (gaslighting). And yet, I felt that I could never live without him.
For me, the final straw was when my mom mentioned that we would probably eventually get married. I realized that I didn't want to live my WHOLE LIFE like that. I ended it and really had to go completely cold turkey. I didn't answer his calls; I didn't open his letters...I knew that if he couldn't talk to me, he couldn't persuade me to change my mind. It hurt, but it dissipated. Now I am to a point (almost 20 years later) that I am angry. I actually wrote him a letter for me that explained to him the pain he caused me. I'm not sure that he read it, but it was for me, not him. But you know what, I am still affected by his words and I still fear him a little. If he had written back, I would not have read it.
Please listen to those of us who can see from the outside. If he is abusive...LEAVE. EAs and PAs are something to overcome. Abusive partners are something to LEAVE.
Thank you so much HTM for you support and your sharing of your experience. I am sure I will need so much support and maybe even telling of my encounters and stories. I thank you for offering to hear them. I know that I need to stay away and the fact that he lives an hour and a half away helps a little. I do want to be with him (or atleast that is the feeling I have) and do know that he is ultimately broken. I was miserable with him but feel like I can't live without him. I think that is what you mean by TRAINED by him? He was my whole life on weekends, where he would pull me away from my family. So I was dependent on him. Now, I feel like since it is the weekend, what do I do with myself?
I do miss him and the few moments of good that we had here and there. How do I start to make my own life when he was it? I know if was wrong to make him my life but I did and I don't know the baby steps to get my life back? How did you do it?
WEll it is Saturday and he just texted me and kept it quite simple, "I love you." When I read this, it angered me in a way because I see this as a form of control. It seems that he is trying to control my emotions and feelings with not even being here. Is that what it seems to you all? Is that what it is?
YES!!! Hold on to that feeling. Look at him with a different lens. His actions serve his best interest. He is USING you because he know that he can. You have let him for long enough that he knows you'll fall for it again.
Think about the rotten stuff he's done. Focus on those things. Do you want to live your life like that? Yeah, he probably thinks he loves you, but he's not showing it.
I teach little kids. When one is upset with their "friend" calling them names, I ask them, "Is that the kind of friend you want?" Even second graders realize that no, they don't want a friend who calls them names. THEY CHOOSE to stay away from those people.
Not to downplay your situation with that example. It is not that easy. But ask yourself, "Is your BF the kind of HUSBAND you want?" Cos' I don't think so.
Watch what he does this weekend if you don't reply back. Cut off contact. I guarantee he will try EVERY manipulation he can from "I love you...please talk to me...I need you..." to "You'll never survive without me...you're worthless...who else will want you..." He'll try it all. And watch with that lens of his desire to manipulate you back into his hands.
Stay strong. You can do it.
Well I am not sure if he will send messages like that. He did send a message yesterday also saying that eventhough I have told him bad things, he still loves me and doesn't want me to hurt. Of course he is doing like he is the victim and trying to manipulate me into thinking of him as a wonderful man b/c HE is apologizing to ME when I said mean things to HIM.
He has send emails the last two days saying he still loves me and that he stuck by me throughout things so why couldn't I stick by him through this? So I guess in a way that is what you said he would already do, right?
The man that used to beat me said the same kinds of things - especially about sticking with him through it - just like he stuck with me. He used to tell me that how could one beating take away all of the good times we had. Most of the time he didn't beat me. Most of the time he was a wonderful husband.
It was just those pesky beatings that made life hard. And it wasn't that often, only when things would build up in his head again.
RUN from this guy. Block his phone calls, block his email. Get away from him. If you feel like you cannot, get some counseling now.
Believer,
I am sorry to hear about your hardship. From your post, I take it you are no longer with your husband? If you aren't, how did you manage to get yourself out? Your feelings for him were obviously real? How do you go down the hard path? Did you receive counseling to get through this?
The husband that beat me is my sons' father. That was a long time ago. I managed to leave him when he knocked me down while I was pregnant and I had a miscarriage. I called the cops and had him arrested twice. I had to move out of my home and rent it out. I changed jobs so he couldn't find me.
But what you need to realize is that this is NOT about him. It is about YOU, and why you allow yourself to be treated so poorly. If you don't figure that out with some counseling, you may get rid of him, but will find another guy just like him.
Did you receive counseling to figure out why you were with him? Did counseling help? Or did you deal with it on your own?
I went to lots of counseling. I had 2 little boys and didn't want to make the same mistake again.
My problem was that there were signs ahead of the abuse that I ignored. Abusers look for certain types of people. I thought I was a good, loving, understanding person. But when others would flee, I hung in there. It had to do with family of origin issues.
Happy to say that I broke the cycle for me and my sons.
Good Job for breaking the cycle. I want to break the cycle also. Exbf actually told me in a message yesterday, "it wouldn't happen again" but like everything else, it would. Did the counseling give you techniques to get your self-esteem up?
There is a cycle of abuse. The first time my husband hit me, he was immediately very contrite and swore it wouldn't ever happen again. I bought into it.
Each person is different, but there is probably something from your family of origin that set you up.
You need to look into that.
In my case, my self esteem was good, but my dad suffered from OCD. So I was raised to ignore the signs of someone who wasn't quite normal. I learned to accept aberrant behavior.
Where others picked up on the warning signs, I just continued marching on.
Believer,
Have you remarried or are you happily single with your son?
I'm happily divorced and dating someone. But I DID wait for a year after the divorce to get interested in a man.
And I should explain the abuse was from my sons' father. After that I married what seemed to be a nice guy, and he CHEATED.
You need to read and absorb all of the stuff here, and you will be just fine. The marriage advice is excellent and works.