Husband and I had typical problems of married couples for the last couple years now. Been married 13 years together 18. I didn't realize how bad it was for him til he packed up and left 7 months ago. I have changed a great deal since and know that he would be very happy if he were to come home. He has OW who he works with and she has been around through out his work. He sees she is seeing other guys now behind his back but doesn't believe it. Says they are friends of hers b/c that's what she says. I know he doesn't trust her b/c he checks her phone records daily and keeps tabs on what shes doing. Says he has to catch her.

Anyway, he says he is trying to decide if he wants to come back or not. Personally I think he is waiting to see if it will work out between them two or not. Things between them two right now are not going well though. But he won't admit that. I feel he's cold to me b/c he tries to keep his feelings for me under wraps so as to not get my hopes up that he still feels for me. I know this b/c sometimes it comes out.

I have a hard time being happy around him b/c I am so sad about all of this and miss him so much. He is my soulmate and I love him more than anything. I try very hard b/c I know sad is unattractive and why would he want to come home to that. I do try to be supportive of him to help but it is very difficult. I have been doing Plan A a bit w/o realizing it but not fully. He isn't even moving towards filing for divorce.

Question is... Should I do Plan A fully or am I past that with him already moved out and move onto Plan B?? Need some help...I'm crushed!!! Thank you.

Top

First, Plan A for about 6 weeks. Show him that you are the better alternative. I know how hard it is, but just pretend that he is a sick drug addict.

Do you have kids together?

Have you exposed the affair to everyone?

Thank you. Yes we have a son who is 12 and grateful to have him as him and I almost died during my labor. The affair has been exposed to everyone either by me or through the grapevine as the OW has a big mouth and is spreading many lies around his work, which is where I have many, many friends from long before my husband started working there.
She went as far as to say he has already filed and the divorce is almost complete and they are engaged. All untrue. Everyone is behind me and most want us to reconcile. Some are still very angry with him but they could get past if we reconciled. But ultimately I am the one who has to get past and I know I can if we were to get back together.

It's funny you say to refer to him as a sick drug addict b/c I just said the other day to a close friend that he is a different person. I said it's like when someone hangs with the wrong crowd and gets mixed up in drugs. If you can get to them early enough you can save them and get them back. I referred to my H in the topic. I feel I can pull him out of the "drug environment"..

Thanks.

We often refer to them as aliens. Ever watch the movie "The Body Snatchers"? Same thing - they look the same, talk the same, but are COMPLETELY not the person we married.

Work on anything that he complained about before the affair. Make the changes you need to make.

yes I have worked on evrything he had an issue with. Such minimal things too that if he were more open before he left it would have helped. He's more of a hint dropper than being open and communicating. I have changed everything and he has even admitted he wished this were me before he left. I said I can't change the past but I have made our present and future better. He just needs to give it a chance and experience it to see the difference. But he isn't there for that.

It depends on whether he mentioned these things BEFORE the affair. Often waywards rewrite history. So I only hold stock in things that were problems before the affair.

He did mention things in his own way but I was so busy with everything going on in life I didn't realize like I do now. That is my regret. I also realize I am not the only one who caused this but that is all he wants to focus on right now in reguards to us. I just want him back no matter what it takes.

Hope you will read all about emotional needs here. There is a whole section. Men's top ones are usually sexual fulfillment, admiration and domestic support.

How were you on those?

Admiration and domestic supoort were 100% there. The sexual part was harder b/c I was unhappy with myself b/c I was overweight. I had started a diet 2 weeks before he left and have since lost 40 lbs with about 15 or so more to go. I guess it was too late but I do feel more attractive. I had tried to fix things but at that time he admits now that he put forth no effort to help with that then.

My wife mentioned a few issues before the affair. Totally fixable things and things I was willing to work on.

After the affair, I was the SOLE reason for her discontent. I was a controlling jerk who never respected her. I didn't feel like a controlling jerk, I felt like a loving, hard-working husband. I felt really content. I felt her disillusionment probably had more to do with motherhood and identity and depression and putting so much before the marriage on both our parts than me specifically. I did decide to listen to what she was saying, despite the new foggy perspective on her part. I think I identified many things which would have caused her to be frustrated about us. I set about correcting them in my Plan A. Funny thing though, when the fog finally cleared for a bit after she realized I was moving on, she started saying it was her issues with unhappiness and coping, and was all her fault. She's backslid a bit from that now, but if I press her, she'll still say the same thing. So, yes, waywards rewrite history, but pay attention to the kernel of truth that may be in there because even if it's a warped perspective on their part, it is their reality while they're in their fog. Don't change your values and your core person, but look deep inside and see where you could improve your behavior and your life. It will help you move forward a stronger person, in the marriage or out.

I know what you mean about the drug analogy. I feel like I barely know her right now. She's just shifted into this immature party animal workaholic. Constantly complaining about people who a a*sholes, road rage, drinking way too much, overly sexual at parties and bars - the list goes on. I know if this stuff doesn't change after awhile, I'm done.

I've done alot of soul searching about the things he has said and even though they were minor things (finances my looks arguing over little things etc.)I have changed and improved it all but to no avail. I'm so confused and don't know what to do. This OW has some power or something over him that he can't see past all of her BS she is dishing out. He's blind to it all. I need some suggestions on how to implement Plan A completely and being able to handle it emotionally. I have been having a rough time of late.

Miss,

Your story evoked strong memories in me. I KNOW how you feel, realizing that you missed those hints, but remember, if you'd both been into honesty and less into conflict avoidance, you would have heard each other. I hope you will get the chance to learn to be more open and direct in your communication. It was a real challenge for us, especially my FWH. Dishonesty can become a way of life...very hard to hold yourself to changing it.

What prompted me to post to you is your statement underlined above.

You have an obligation to yourself to rework the bad habits you developed over time. You sound willing to change everything to win him back, but I want to warn you:

Only the changes you make to become more of the person you want to be, for YOU, will allow you to make them genuine and lasting. Don't try to erase your whole personality; just fix what's broken.

Remember how you treated him when you first fell in love (meeting his emotional needs). Do those things again, clarifying them so your target is dead-on. Read His Needs Her Needs if you haven't already. That explains it thoroughly.

If you picked up the bad habits of dissing him (disrespectful judgments) to his face or in your head, talking harshly to him (angry outbursts), making demands instead of requests, and going about your business as though he wasn't the most important thing in your life (independent behavior), YES! Change those things. These are insidious behaviors we selfishly dump on each other that make us fall out of love. Read Love Busters, also by Dr. Harley, for a good explanation of how we mess up in these ways.

If you hope to reconcile, you must become again the woman he fell in love with, but that doesn't mean turning yourself into a doormat for him. The changes you're making now must truly be self improvements that you genuinely believe you should make anyway.

You do NOT want him back if you have to give up the good, true and honest parts of who you are--only make those changes that will make you more of who you want to be!

When you're feeling desperate, it's hard to tell the difference. I struggled with this myself, and I see you may feel ready to sell yourself out. Don't.

Right Here Waiting

I wish I'd thought to phrase what I was saying like ZenWolf did.
It's more succinct:

Don't change your values and your core person, but look deep inside and see where you could improve your behavior and your life.

And pay no attention to what he says is wrong with you while he's entrenched in an affair. Till he breaks free of his addiction to her, nothing he says is valid.

As you're examining yourself, don't be too harsh. Just see what really makes sense to change and work on that. Most important of all is to find a way to CALM yourself. Apart from OW, your own anxiety is your worst enemy.

Right Here Waiting

Right Here Waiting--- I know exactly what you are saying but I am thinking clearly. All of the things I have changed are things that he wanted but they are also improvements that are good for me and my future no matter what happens. I wasn't a bad person. I just tried to help too many family members and got stretched in too many directions. My H even says I have a very big heart but that hurts me alot of times too. I am now the person he fell in love with which he can see but she tells him it's fake and she is what he truly wants. You could only fake for so long It's been 7 months and I certainly am not faking anything except a smile when I see him. Only b/c of my sadness. Who wants to be around a downer.

Yeah, my wife has a really tough time with my tears so for now, I keep them to myself whenever I can.

So. Feel confident that you are doing your best. His actions have NOTHING to do with you right now. You've given him open arms to return to, now it's his choice.

It's YOUR choice to move on with your life. For me, it just took enough false starts to lose enough love that I was ready. It gave me a sense of relief! Single Dad sounded kinda cool. Sitting around pining for them does nothing but eat away at you (helps with weight loss though). Start moving on. Leave the door open for him, but don't constantly check the door. Check on your needs and what the next good thing in your life will be. You will survive this, and if you keep working on YOU, you'll THRIVE in the end. When you simply cannot do the current Plan A anymore, look closely at Plan B, or figure out if you want to just move on.

This will get better!!!

ZenWolf---- Thankyou for the encouraging words. That is the exact thing I am having the hardest trouble with. I am so afraid he will just forget about me. It hurts. I have been to counseling and I do not think we have very good couselors around here. I do wait for him and I know that is not what I should do. When he is out with her or his new friends it just kills me. A whole new life I'm not a part of. We have always had great friends. Now it is partying and drinking friends. H has a heart condition at a young age and this drinking and smoking is not good. Not heavy drinking but to me more than it should be. All I do is worry. He use to just casual drink few beers after a ball game stuff like that. Now he drives after it too b/c she wants to go places. I'm afraid for him.

He's just trying to bury his problems. My wife had been pretty out of control during this. She's still drinking too much, but it's mostly with me around now that she's home, so at least she won't get in trouble. You might try calling Dr. Harley. It's expensive but I think some of the best advice if you want to continue to try to save the marriage.

I had that fear too - that my wife would just lose herself in her rationalizations and that would be her new reality. That's how many people deal with problems. It might be what happens. You just simply can't control it. You can control your actions. You can control your emotions too, which gets easier the mroe you do it. Don't lower your standards for the marriage. Don't agree with the rationalizations.

Argh, I feel for you. This is so agonizing. Just start taking care of you. It's your turn.

Glad to hear you are thinking rationally. Your "at any cost" comment sent up a red flag.

You're still a little foggy, though. Do not think he will "forget" about you. His behavior shows that he's not thinking about you so much as about himself, but that's not the same thing. All is not lost.

Sorry your counseling experience hasn't been fruitful. There are SO many of them who haven't the first clue how to deal with infidelity--unless you're looking for a divorce. They'll help you with that.

Could you swing just one or two sessions with the MB coaching team? This is ALL they do, and they're very good at giving people their best shot at ending affairs and recovering marriages. They give you concrete advice...not blah blah. Once I got my H to talk to them, it took only two sessions before he made the first move home. What have you got to lose that you haven't lost already? He might not be ready to talk to them yet, but YOU can get some good advice on what you should do in the interim.

Pulling for you.

Right Here Waiting

Thank you is that the coaching center? $195 for the almost 1 hour. I am very new to the site just today so I'm still learning the site. I do try very hard but the forgetting thing is my issue and fear.

I do believe he is still undecided b/c she has been pushing divorce since Nov. and he gets angry and tells her if he's gonna do it he'll do it when he's ready no matter how long it takes.

He's made the comment to me that he didn't realize that I truly loved him this much so I think that threw him back a little and made him think it might work with us but he is undecided.

I just want the good man I fell in love with to be aound again.

This all sounds very encouraging, actually. It's wonderful that OW is making demands. Even better that it's pushed him to the point of anger with her. Let's hope she keeps it up--it's helping YOU! SHE is love busting! Hah!

Best part of all is that he's told you he didn't realize that you loved him this much. Part of the rationalization waywards have for their affair is that their spouse DIDN'T love them! You're taking that excuse and proving it wrong. Read up on Plan A (via the links on the home page) and order the books His Needs Her Needs and Love Busters by Dr. Harley. They will help you fine tune what you've already been doing for optimum results.

Yes, the MB coaching center is one of the links on the home page, and it is $195/hour (and I got a full 60 minutes every time). Believe me, money well spent. Much cheaper than divorce, too.

As I was dialing them for the first appointment, it occurred to me that I'd lost my mind--counseling via a web site??? NOT something I would ordinarily do! I see it now as divine intervention. Best thing I could've done.

Read, read, read, and keep showing your H the best of you. Bite your tongue every time you want to give him what-for, even though he richly deserves it. You two can work all that out later, once he's recommitted to the marriage. Marriage Builders gives us a PLAN to break up the affair (Plan A) and rock solid (if conterintuitive) advice on how to proceed once the A is over.

With OW making demands, and you reincarnated into the woman he fell in love with and married, you're off to a great start.

Stay with us. We can help you understand the plan--we've used it ourselves!

Right Here Waiting

This does sound like good news.

You need good friends around you to keep you boosted and to change the fake smile on your lips into a real one.

YES! If you have good friends, rely on them as much as possible. Vent to them. Your good friends and family will rise to the occasion. They have been a lifesaver for me.

I agree. I would have ended up in a rubber room without the support and understanding of my grown children and a phalynx of the most phenomenal friends. There is no substitute for human caring.

And when those people aren't available, come here! There's almost always somebody around who understands.

OK I completely fell apart and lost it yesterday and today. He was over yesterday to do bills and was yelling at me about some charges on the gas bill. I didn't charge them and havent put any charges on that card in 2 months. After further review he had put those charges on there taking her to pick her kid and drop her kid off at the airport. All I heard was " O." Set me right off, partially b/c I found out he took her to a hotel Friday night when he said he was going to his cousins house to help him with some stuff.

Anyways I told him how I have changed everything that he had an issue with and didn't know what else to do. That I deserved an apolog for being a complete jerk to me about the bill and that charges should not be on my business card for her!!! Never did get an apology. He stormed out saying he didn't want to talk about it anymore after I told him how she's the unfaithful one to him and she gets what she wants from him then goes and screws some other guy while he's at work. All facts.

So I sent him a text pouring my heart out about not knowing what else to do and how I was hurting ( big mistake I know). He called later and told me he was stopping by to talk. He never showed then found out he was with her all night. "He fell asleep" Never an apology. I lost it and I am a failure at this MB stuff. I just don't know what else to do. I have cried all day b/c of the hurt. How do you all do this? I don't know if I'm gonna make it. I need help. I can't afford the coaching b/c of tax season so the boards are gonna have to do for now.

Oh I'm so sorry. I know how bleak it seems. The more you are hurt, the easier it is to let go, believe it or not. This is part of Plan A. The more you try and are unrewarded, the less love you will feel for him. Eventually he turns around or you fall out of love with him and can move on with more peace. For me that gave me so much more clarity. You need to stand up for yourself. You are being a doormat. Part of Plan A is setting boundaries. If he is using your credit card to finance his affair, cancel the credit card. This is completely reasonable thing to do. If he reads it as revenge and vindictiveness, that's his warped perspective. Tell him in a perfectly calm and cool voice that it's not OK to spend both your money on another woman and leave it at that. This is a perfect example of acting without fear (It's just ACTING at first, but you'll get the hang of it!). My wife never tried to contradict me when I just stood up for myself in this. Do what is right for you and your marriage. Anything he does outside the marriage deserves NO regard from you.

I know many people seek antidepressants during this. Dr. Harley recommends them to those who just can't handle the roller coaster. It is SHEER torture, so don't feel bad feeling that way! I don't know how to tell you to just keep living, but that's what you have to do. One foot in front of the other. It gets incrementally easier. If I compare my anxiety now to that of a month ago, it's at about half. Even during the affair, it was getting easier to just remain strong. You'll know when you've had enough. If that's where you are, PLAN B! Ask the kind people here to weigh in on a rock solid Plan B.

missingshadow,

The "power" OW has over your WH is simply that he is addicted to the way he feels about himself when he is with her--think about it--he gets away from the responsibilities of the home routine with you, the problems associated with your son, and is temporarily, at least, experiencing the high of something "new."

All selfish, immature and irresponsible behavior.

For seven months.

You have exposed. You have corrected the things he complains about. You have lost 40 pounds. What more can you do? And for how much longer before you crack?

Spend $195 on a session with the MB coaches (Steve Harley or Jennifer). Lay out the situation and ask for their advice. I think they will tell you to implement Plan B. It will take preparation, but you've GOT to protect yourself from his insanity and cake eating. They may tell you something else to try before that.

Please, get the best professional advice, and follow it, before you have nothing more to give and WANT a divorce.

After posting I went to my local Wal-mart and in the book section I found the His Needs Her Needs book. I debated buying it because the cover says Building an affair proof marriage. I'm past that. Will this book help or did I waste my money. I did order Surviving an affair and love busters from ebay so I should have those in a couple of days. I am more calm now but soooo confused b/c I don't want to see my marriage end. Everyone on here has been so nice and helpful thank you I just don't want to sound like an idiot b/c I want to keep trying.

Buy it. If it doesnt help in theis relationship it will help in the next.

It is your CHOICE and your RIGHT to keep on trying! But you're going to need something more than what you've had to work with over the past 7 months.

His Needs Her Needs, Love Busters and Surviving An Affair are all excellent resources that will show you how to proceed. Read them all, and absorb the advice in them. Practice what you learn, but be aware of your own strength and when it's failing.

If you find yourself running low on steam to keep up the effort, please call the MB coaching center and get help before it's too late and you find yourself not caring anymore.

And stay with us. We've all been there.

Right Here Waiting

You are NOT stupid for trying! I worried about that so much and continue to worry. A marriage should be worth fighting for. What we're trying to get across is that you need to have standards and boundaries and the proper tools to have a healthy life whether you save your marriage or end it. The idea is to have a marraige worth having, not just to fear losing something that's already lost!

Let's say your husband's OW left him tomorrow. Let's say he comes crawling back, which is likely in affairs (if they wanted out of the marriage, they'd get out!). You might be so desperate to take him back that you forget to put in place measures to keep this from happening again. Maybe you have lowered the bar enough that he does this again in 5 years. The idea is to gain personal strength, regardless of outcome, because you can't necessarily control the outcome. If you regain your marriage, you want it to be better than before!

If you want to keep trying, please do! If you know that it's right for you, no one would fault you for it. Just try to ensure that you regain a healthy and renewed marriage, not a stunted and dying one.

OK I implemented Plan A on Saturday (3 days ago). I let him know I was going to hang out with some friends and would be back later on in the night. ( he was supposed to call me so I wanted to let him know I wouldn't be home, to call my cell). He call bout 45 mins after I left with small talk and excuses for calling. Asked me how I was doing if I was ok. ( he hasn't done that in a while) Said I was fine and I made nice conversation. Of course typical questions..where are you, when will you be home, etc. I answered vaguely and politely. When he let me go I told him I would talk to him later on in the night to let him know I was home he said ok. That's it.

Since, he makes small talk but not too much. Saturday night I thought me going out made an impact but now I don't know. I know it's only 3 days but when should I start seeing anything from him? I know Plan A is about me being happy and doing for myself. It's hard and will take some time b/c I did everything with him..but I am trying. It was weird going out without him. Almost uncomfortable for me but I made it appear I was happy when we spoke or when I saw him.

So I guess I am just looking for opinions of if I'm doing this right, anything to improve on in my plan a, and when do you all think I should notice him seeing these things... Also do you guys have some conversation topic ideas to pass along. I did receive my 3 books today so I am getting started on reading. I am going to start with SAA first. Thanks to all.

You need to start off Plan A not expecting anything. Otherwise you will be very disappointed. Then stay in Plan A for about 6 weeks, then it will be time for Plan B.

Yes, as Believer said, there should be no expectations. This is VERY hard. You continually put yourself out there and often the effort is not responded to. This has the effect of grinding your resolve down, and making you want to try less and less. But remember the goal here. You are being the best version of yourself. If the wayward spouse takes notice (and they will) they may be pulled back. If not, you continue being the best version of yourself, and you will have less love for your husband. You just stop wanting to try after awhile and you have more peace about moving on.

I think the occasional text or email saying something admiring, bringing up a shared memory... even a little gift occasionally. The trick is to do it in a confident way and try not to express neediness. (One night I desperately texted my wife, "Can't we just stop this bullsh*t and come home and fix it?!!!" She responded with, "Are you drunk?"). Space them out. Express confidence and gentleness at all times!

They are almost completely self-centered in this process so don't expect it to get through at first. All the little things will paint and much nicer picture in their mind when they think of you. Groveling and begging just makes them feel more guilty and withdrawn.

For me it was when I gave up and told her I was done that she came back, so this is kinda the other side. This is the possibility of Plan B, or Plan Move On.

missinshadow,

Plan A is not just to show the WS what life could be like with a new, improved spouse. It's also for the BS--to show THEM that THEY can make changes toward becoming better people.

SOOO hard not to expect "results," but remember, a wayward is foggy. And withdrawn from the marriage. Dr. Harley points out that no love units get through when a spouse is in the state of withdrawal.

However, he most likely WILL remember the new and improved version later, when the fog clears or when trouble presents itself in affair-land.

My FWH was not living with me when I was working the best Plan A I could under the circumstances. I called the MB coaching center for help on how to do it from afar.

During this time, Steve Harley told me to:

1) Get a life. Get out there. Do stuff. Visit friends, travel to supportive family. Do NOT tell WH specifically what you are doing, but sound upbeat, like you're having fun with it.

2) Stay lightly connected to WH via little "nothing" emails every couple of days. My then-WH didn't respond to a one of them, and I felt pretty stupid sending them, but Steve assured me that even if he didn't open them, he'd see them in his mailbox. And that would force the reality of me into his little affair world. (FWH told me later he HAD read every one of them, but wouldn't give me the satisfaction of answering because he was "mad" that I'd "invaded his privacy." See what I mean about foggy?)

So, expect nothing for now. Just work the plan and wait for his affair to implode. Sounds like that's well under way already...

Right Here Waiting

I read what you said about Plan A from afar..I believe that is what I am doing now since my WH seems to be, in his words, "processing". I went to see my WH at his place of employment last night..I was upset that he wanted to use OUR line of credit to now rent a home with the OW..(now that our house closes in May).
I went there just to see him..I had no idea why I was doing it..got myself looking pretty good and then we ended up talking for an hour. He quietly admitted that he is making a mistake, but can't seem to stop himself. He told me he loves me but it is different than it was before...I told him so was my love for him..that is the way love is..it grows to something different.
I told him that I have had time to see where I contributed to his unhappiness, but that we made a vow and that I feel that I have not only the forgiveness in me but the will to make our marriage work.
He said he would consider what I said..and hugged me close and strong before I left. I told him no pressure and that I was not begging, but to try to remember how good we had it together.
The OW is not staying at the house with my H..she is barely there anymore..he is alone most of the time (the neighbour across the street lets me know since we're friends). Tonight I called him briefly just to make sure he was okay. He said last night was uncomfortable, but that it was alright. He did not want to speak of it with me tonight and I told him that was fine, that I am okay..adjusting, but just wanted to make sure he was okay and that he gets a good nights sleep. He said he wished the same for me..
So now I will send random emails just to say hi..that is how he won me over 7 years ago.
The OW is in constant communication with her H and is having difficulty with the fact that her children no longer want to see her and the youngest doesn't even know about my H yet.
They cannot move in together since the OW owes a great deal of money and her part time pay has to go to her H.
I have a full time job AND a part time job, so money is not a problem at the moment with me..my H is all about money and being frugal as am I..so I am hoping that all of these issues bring him back to me.
Let me know if I am handling this right. I want him to remember who I am..a quiet, forgiving person with a good sense of humour..all the things he loved about me before have not changed...any advice would be REALLY appreciated.

I read so many threads in here and it is so sad that so many of us end up here...my thoughts and prayers are with everyone

I read your thread and your story is similiar to mine. My husband left about 8 months ago and says the same things your husband does. we have talked over the months and have met for dinner a couple weeks ago. I talked with him last week on the phone, He seemed so down and depressed, he said that he does not no why he is not happy, sounds like things are not good. I believe that he is crashing and burning. Just want to see if he will bite after awhile. I have sent him a couple of text and he has not responded. This is expected? I just started my plan A 3/2/09. I hope it is not to late, but I have to find some sense in my self and balance. I will continue until I no longer can do it.

do you have any suggestions?

I know that they read the texts..but they are not sure if they want to get your hopes up so they don't answer..but you never know when they will.
Human nature is a funny thing. The WS is feeling guilty, so if cornered they lash out. If spoken to gently and kindly, they feel they don't deserve it. It is hard to get through the glassy eyes and the defensive body language when once not too long ago those same eyes looked at you with love and compassion and those arms were wrappaed around you.
So they are not themselves. I believe for My H, he is in a depression, turning 50 this year..not found a job that is fulfilling (he worked in a plant for 28 years and then they closed). The economy is not helping and so it all came to his unhappiness. He job jumped and when that didn't make him happy, we moved..when that didn't make him happy..he dumped me...that is why I am not angry with him..I understand what is happening to him..but I just really want to stop the insanity.
Sunshine..it sounds like you have had a bit of progress with having dinner with your H..I haven't progressed that far. I have made the mistake of listening to other people and not my own self..and all they want me to do is kick him to the curb, but I can't kick a gey when he is already down.
I love him more than life, but I have to understand my limitation on this for fear of scaring him away.

Broken, I don't want to miss any of your points, so am responding within your post.


It astounds me too, how many of us there are here. There is a world of hurt, but also a world of opportunity, whether we reclaim our marriages, or simply ourselves. Keep the faith.

Right Here Waiting

Oh, dear, missinshadow. Sorry for the T/J!

Broken, do you want to go back to one of your prior threads?

RHW

Thank you Rightherewaiting. I guess I have been an enabler. I am SOOOO good at seeing other people do that kind of thing, but when it is me..well, I guess with all the emotion, I can't seem to see the forest for the trees.
You are right..he could very well be manipulating me and the reason I have not noticed it is because the man I married did not have a manipulating bone in his body. I have to remember that he is in a fog and not himself..I like the alien description.
My H has not used our line of credit..he knows that I would go after him for that..I am not THAT nice.
When you asked:
Not that you should scream at him, but have you even let him know you're angry about his deception and unfaithfulness?

Come to think of it, ARE you angry at all?
Not that you should scream at him, but have you even let him know you're angry about his deception and unfaithfulness?

Come to think of it, ARE you angry at all?

Yes..I Have yelled at him, told him how disgusted I was..I used the word 'vermin', called him immoral and an adulter, lowest of the low. He did not respond to that only to say that he deserves it. He told me that I did not deserve what has happened, that I was the best wife any man could want..but his love changed. Yup, it only took him a couple of months for his love to change, so yes, I am angry.
I have to keep my anger in check though since it really does not accomplish anything but to give me a knotted stomach.
I know that the A will not last or at least I think it won't, but who really knows? It certainly isn't as 'wonderful' as it was before for him.
I agree with you..I should just let it self destruct, but I guess I am concerned that if I don't just text him once in a while, he will forget me..silly I know..but he doesn't have the best memory on the best of days..
I am trying though to move on..going out with friends, staying active..I can't let this situation rule my entire life. I don't want to enable him..I don't want this A to work out and I DO know that this part of the A could go on for quite some time.
I believe you are right..I need to distance myself and whatever the outcome, it was meant to be. I do believe things happen for reasons..I just don't get this one..why all this pain?
I am curious, what do you feel is just compensation? I need some advice on that.

Sorry for being so self centered to just talk about me..I am wondering how missinshadow is doing?
I am watching and hoping for the best for her.

Broken and Right Here Waiting... Not a problem chating on this link b/c I read it all and whether it has to do with my situation or someone elses it does help. I'm happy someone responds so it doesn't get lost pages back...LOL...

So I read everyones responses and I'm taking it all in. I know not to expect anything but it is so difficult. I get so afraid he will get further wrapped up with her and forget about me. I know that's silly but I think that. My mind is working overtime.

So update... Affairland not going well yesterday. I went to see him yes. morning and ended up making him late for meeting her and didn't know it. HEHE! They were supposed to go to the beach with her friends and she saw my car at his moms house and decided to leave w/o him saying she didn't know how long I would be holding him up. They were supposed to leave at 10:45. I left him at 10:30. When she called him at 10:50 he said he was ready she was already on the road! He was POed and told her he would have waited for her. Long story short he felt he was low priority to her and he was hurt (sound familar?).

I said I was sorry (not really) for making him late( I didn't know but that worked out)he told me that had I not made him late by stopping to talk he would have never had his eyes opened to her acting that way. (Funny how things work when you don't even know your doing it) He said he is starting to lose things for her, but doesn't know what he wants ( yeah right. his feelings are hurt like mine & he doesn't even know it)

Later in the day I passed her and her friends in town. I saw someone waving at me so I waved back. My son realized it was her. My H knows she does this crap but can't catch her doing it. I told him I don't deserve this torment and will no longer tolerate it. I've been the classier person long enough. Next time I'm in the store when she's working I'll blow her a kiss!

So it seems the fog is lifting somewhat if ever so slightly but I am guarded as I know it could come back thicker than ever.

Anymore advice....? Also topics to talk w/ him about that are not relationship oriented...ideas??? Thanks to all!

Some conversation ideas:
recreational activities that you have enjoyed together in the past
current events (lots of men find this a safe interesting thing to talk about)
fond memories that you share (this works really well with my spouse)
favorite places that you have been together
places that you want to see
family stories that he may not know about
goals for the future (not relationship goals)

Think about if you were dating this man, what would you talk about? Ask him questions about him. Try to get to know him all over again without being to pushy or too personal. Just try to keep it light and fun. Hope this helps.

Send him cute little text messages. Here's one of my favs:

"Just heard the news. Aliens have landed and are abducting all the sexy people. I'm gonna miss ya!"

He won't know if you think HE's being abducted or YOU are, but it'll make him smile.

Missinshadow! Good. Disrupting the affair while not making a jerk of yourself is one of your more powerful tools! Just always stand up for yourself. When I do that, my WW has no comeback. No neediness! Keep anger in check. Just be firm and truthful. Pretend you're a Bhuddist monk in high heels!

I don't remember who asked, but not answering texts and emails became a sure sign that my wife was slipping back into the fog. She came back to me and left again several times, so understand that your monstrous rollercoaster ride is only beginning. The unreturned communication is a SURE sign they are back in affair land.

Project confidence! I cannot state that enough! Confidence with a little hope, the occasional reminiscence or tidbit of news. Something like:

"I'm going to meet our old friends tonight. Boy they're fun to hang out with. You'll be missed!"

Make enough activity for yourself that you can always drop a clue that you're moving on with your life:

"Hey, I'm headed out the door to see **** but just wanted you to know I'm thinking of you."

If they happen to ask how you're doing (my wife NEVER did until she returned to the marriage), you say:

"Feeling good. Looking forward to Spring. Can't wait to go on this trip I'm planning."

I talked to an old friend yesterday who had an affair during her relationship with her long time boyfriend. She said that as long as her boyfriend didn't stop her, she would just keep going because she knew she could get away with it. It's all about getting away with murder. It's all about THEM!!! Remember. They won't forget about you, it just makes them feel guilty to think about you, so they try not to.

Thanks these will help alot. Keep'em coming everyone.

Princess Meggy... Thanks for that idea. It was really cute and I will definitely use it. It did make me giggle and I needed that right now. Thanks!!!!

Zenwolf...Thanks for the advice and comments. They are very helpful and all will be taken and used. There's a reason I don't ride real rollercoasters (vertigo) but I have to say that right now I would rather ride that real rollercoaster than the one I'm on right now.

Update: I had to take his cell phone to the store today to meet an area rep for replacement. I broke his phone the beginning of February and purchased a new one to replace it. ( I know I was an idiot. Let too many emotions out! STUPID!) Anyways phone didn't work and store didn't want to replace with the 30 day guarantee. I paid $400 for that phone and I was not going to lose that as I am getting the phone back when his insurance replacement for the one I broke comes in.

So he was nice last night and earlier today to me and now I don't know. Partially I know b/c him and OW were arguing but prob b/c he was using me to take the phone to see the lady as he had to work. He came last night and we talked about an hour about many different things. It was nice. Then OW called him when he left crying that her EX was in an uproar about her R with my H. ( I don't think he knows my H is married) Anyways he ended up over there to console her. Boo Fringin Hoo!!

I asked him to call me on his lunch break today. Didn't get to tell him why. (It was bout our house and our son) So he never called and found out he was at lunch with OW. Back down the tracks I go. But I'm strong with all of your help and I can make it through this. He is coming tonight to spend some time with son playing. I will compose myself by then!!

Hmmmmmm,

Ya know, I didn't pick up on this at first, but he's talking to the OW right in front of you? It's totally out in the open? See, my wife kept lying until it was blatantly obvious she was with the OM. When that happened, thanks to some good advice from the dear folks here at MB, I told her that she could not conduct the affair while under the same roof as me. This is the house WE built together! This began the cycle of returning to me, then going to him.

I would suggest that you are doing some great Plan A work, but you need to look at the Carrot and Stick a lot more closely. If the other person's spouse doesn't know you're married, MAKE THEM AWARE! The goal is to make the affair uncomfortable. Him calling her right in front of you and you just taking it is totally unacceptable! That's being a doormat. If he takes calls from her, tell him he needs to leave. You need to maintain self-respect, and you need your husband to respect you too. If you let him pull this cr*p in front of you, he won't respect. His affair has no place in your life. Make him conduct his affair business elsewhere!

ZenWolf... My apologies I must have worded things incorrectly. She called while he was here. (phone on vibrant) But he didn't talk to her til he left to go home to his moms. (that's where he's living) He hasn't lived here with me since August. So he doesn't talk to her or text her in front of me or here at the house. I did catch him 2 times ( he went outside and around the corner of the house, IDIOT!)and after the second time is when his phone got broke all of the sudden. TeeHee!

Oh I forgot! I'm trying to figure out how to contact her EX but haven't been able to find out his full name and where he is. They were never married so it makes it difficult. They were together for something like 10 years and her 3 yr old daughter is his. He is evidently a piece of work himself. So I'm still working on this part.

Oh good! Sounds like you are getting back up on your feet. Funny, when I post here I feel like I'm helping with SOMETHING. It feels good.

My own situation is so up and down, hopeful one minute, helpless the next, it's nice to try to help people a little further back in the process.

Make no mistake, if you do manage to get your husband to come back, the agony does not stop there! I mean it's offset by glimmers of hope and some real moments of joy, so that's better than the hard grind that occurs during the affair.

Recovery is very hard too, so finding that inner strength, gaining that self-confidence is VERY important for the road ahead, whether it's divorce or recovery, because neither one is a cake-walk. In some ways it seems like divorce would be easier. When I have genuinely reached that point in my heart I experience a sense of calm at first, followed by anxiety of what that decision means. There's no end in sight dangit!

Hang in there. You are sounding so much more strong than just a few days ago. You're on the right track!

Hey missinshadow..don't you just HATE the rollercoaster? I do..I am all over the place..does he care, does he remember? The poor WS's are so torn..guilty and torn, and have no idea how to think straight. If only they could see through our eyes, it would be very clear on what the right course of action would be.
All we can do is try to stay busy, work on our own lives in the event of them never coming back, but IF they do..then we are a better person who has stayed strong (even if we ARE crumbling on the inside).
We want our WS to see us as strong, vibrant women who are fun to be around, with so much to offer them, the person that they once fell madly in love with.
I too like the ideas on the messages and I am going to use that. It works particularly well with my H since he is one of those people that constantly checks their emails. Just small little tidbits, like I used to send him..the way it was when he fell in love with me..
I am going to keep doing this until it stops making sense to do so, but since my marriage is important to me, then I guess I won't stop (until he blocks me on his email LOL) I am only sending one or 2 a day so far. He has not responded - yet, but I know he is floundering.
I don't know about your H, but mine is ashamed..the neighbours haven't seen him outside since Dec..he used to talk to everyone on the street, now he is a recluse. The OW barely comes over there anymore and they can't afford to live together since she had little to no money. I am thankful that my H is a cheap man and does not like to finacially support others (I am stable that way so he did not feel like he had to 'support' me).
I hope and pray for you that your H sees the sun through the fog..and I pray the same for my WH.

OMG missinshadow. I am in the exact same boat as you. Only my husband walked out on me 1 1/2 months ago and even though I have proof he is with OW he still won't admit it. I still see him and talk when he comes by to drop money off.

I have been so caught up in this nightmare for the last 1 1/2 months that the rest of my life has been put on hold. Today I sat with 2 friends who told me to STOP. I need to put myself first and do the things that will make me a better more independent person. Once my WH sees these changes he might just become interested again.

It's very hard because like you I love him and want him to come home. But the reality today is that he is not here and I can't sit here pining for him to come back because as much as it hurts to admit it - he may never.

But I can take the control of my life back. I did show him a few signs of this yesterday (mentioned I'm planning a trip in May - didn't tell him where or with whom; he saw I was fixing the house up; even said I'd file if he didn't want to; and that I was thinking of putting the house up for sale). He was stunned! I nearly had to pick his jaw up off the floor. He told me he doesn't want me to file yet - he doesn't think we're ready. So ya know what - I'll wait for that to happen. Truth is I'm pretty weak still but I REFUSE to show him that.

So let your WH wonder why you're making all these improvements. Let him wonder what's really going on. Remember less is more. Let him wonder what's up - and just maybe he'll start thinking more about you than the OW. Incidentially my WH has told me he isn't happy - but he's still not back. It could take along time and guess what I realized today - I can't put my life or happiness on hold because of him. This is my life and I'm not going to let it get messed up by someone who can figure out what the hell he wants. So from me to you - hold your head high and show him what he's missing! You go girl!

Don't he and the OW live together, miss? How can you find this out?

Melody Lane--- No the OW and her Ex do not live together. She started "chatting with my husband" while she still lived with her boyfriend of 10 years and My H still lived with me. Then a week or so before my H left me She kicked her boyfriend out. She has never been married. 2 kids also. Shipped her 12 yr old boy off to another state to live with his father ( who he hardly knew) also a week or two before my H left me. Sounds like it was all planned out to me. My H is living with his mom and stepdad. They live about 1/2 mile or less from me and OW lives 3 blocks up from them. How cozy!

So thanks to everyone for the help. I'm plugging along trying to keep to Plan A. So difficult. I have faultered some but then I catch myself and get back on it. I think this would have been easier if I would have found all of this at the beginning not 6-7 months into it. I had already put alot out there to him and made myself the depressed bag lady before I found you guys. So trying to recover from that. Slowly but surely. I got all my books and have started reading but I have been so tired from not much sleep I keep falling asleep.

I am one of those people who is go go go and then once I sit or lay down I'm done. Too much going on and too many things to do in the day and not enough hours. I'm sure you all know what I mean.

Oh I know exactly what you mean. Strangely, my wife discovered this site for me looking for marriage counseling, while she was in the affair! She then said that it was good pre-marital counseling, but too late for us.

After D-day, I put in about a month and half of Plan A, before I had exhausted myself and had very little left to give. Now we're limping along with all kinds of setbacks. It's a marathon, any way you cut it.

If you find yourself at the breaking point, don’t be afraid of Plan B or Plan D. They might just be the jolt he needs.