Yes, waywards lie. They lie to our faces, they lie by omission, they just lie...but...

I just gotta vent here. Recently did the annual turkey hunting trip with Dad, brother and two other guys who have been hunting with my Dad for 35+ years.

The oldest guy, he's 80 now, used to bring sticky-buns his wife baked. They were great. He really milked it for all it's worth -- "my wife really loves making these for us," "I'm glad you like them...she worked so hard." blah, blah, blah. Even played them up to the farmer/landowner, saying his wife baked them just for him.

So FF to this year and I realize I haven't seen the sticky buns for a few years. Ask my dad about them and he says, "oh yea, he finally admitted that his wife didn't bake the sticky buns...he got them at local bakery" WTF!!!!

Then the other guy in our hunting party gets a little drunk and starts telling stories...and they are same stories we heard last year, save for one exception...they have DIFFERENT endings / details. Liar!

WTF? Why can't people just tell it like it is? Why does it always have to be one better? Maybe I'm just too trusting in what people say. I guess all I can control is what comes out of my mouth. Aarrgghh...

You thought you were hunting turkeys, when you now realize you were hunting WITH them?

Same reason people try to keep up with the Jones'...they want others to like them and start acting stupid to make themselves seem more (fill in the blank).

DNU1,

You raise an issue with which I have been trying to come to terms for several months, now. In February, I found out the guy I was (notice past tense)dating ahd been lying to me throughout the term of our relationship about many things, including our exclusivity. I have spent a great deal of time trying to come to terms with the person I first got to know (now a fantasy) and the person he really is. Many people have multiple personas depending on the circumstances. In my situation, I believed him to be a man of integrity, responsibility, virtuous, loyal, etc., only to find out he is not. He is two faced: There is the side he showed me to win me over and a darker side where he was seeing other people the entire time we were dating, including cruising online dating and casual sex sites. I have come to the realization that it is all about character. Some people have it and some people don't. Unfortunately, many of those without it are great at hiding it.

I LOVE KaylaAndy!

I've always heard the saying, "believe none of what you hear and half of what you read..."

And having worked on college campus, and having my office RIGHT next to the campus news paper, I grew really weary of the press...saw how they were being trained in college, how they manipulated the facts, etc.

But come on...sticky-buns! This is ridiculous!

I mean if someone would flat out lie and deceive for a gazillion years over something so small as sticky-buns…why wouldn’t they lie about more important things.

Makes me want to call “BS” on all kinds of things. I’ve never trusted salesmen, thinking they were only in this to line their own pockets. Granted, everyone needs to make a living…

But now maybe I’m growing more cynical and judgmental. And you are right, it’s all about character.

Is it possible he was being facetious?
Making a joke?
The "milking it for all it's worth" is what makes it seem like he was having a go at you guys, pulling one over on you.

DNU1,

The excessive lying seems mostly to be a Male thing, I can only identify one or two Females I have known who lie excessively, but 100's of men that do so. I guess charitably you could call it exaggeration, caught fish bigger than my boat, 500 pound 20 point buck, etc. I think it derives from the male need to complete. Basically if you can't win just lie.

With many guys I think they have lied for so long and so often they can never go back. My father-in law who is now in his late 70's sounds like the 80's year old you were talking about, the lies he told years ago are now part of his identity which he believes.

NJ

That's my experience as well. In social settings I would see many, many men exaggerating a story. Is is out of competition, wanting others to envy them, or just a desire to be an entertaining storyteller? Watch the wives that and if they correct their Hs, the H gets mad and defensive...

You calling me a liar? Um no honey that fish was really as big as the sofa.

Black Raven,

Not really sure, but I sometimes think it has something to do with the fact that men do not give birth and never have that life altering experience of producing new life. So to make up for that defect they achieve or are losers. If men could have babies perhaps no wars? or would they compete to have the biggest babies.

How many men does it take to drive a tractor trailer across a bridge 10, one to drive it across and nine to listen to him brag about it.

NJ

He's a former marine drill sgt, spent time in Korea. Know-it-all who was always trying to tell me and my brother how to hunt, where to go, etc.

No, he wasn't being facetious...not that I thought anyway.

Another point...when he shot a big tom it was "hey, look how HUGE this one is...six beards!" This year when I shoot a big one it's, "man, that old bird ain't going to be worth a crap to eat..."

Grrrrr....

I've always had an extremely low tolerance for lying/flubbing the truth/whatever....I've found that since discovering my FWH's affair, my tolerance for that sort of nonsense out of ANYBODY is in the negative range.

DNU,

Another point...when he shot a big tom it was "hey, look how HUGE this one is...six beards!" This year when I shoot a big one it's, "man, that old bird ain't going to be worth a crap to

Don't tell me, he used to hunt one handedly with a 10ga shooting 3 and 1/2 inch magnum shells, that is after he couldn't get ammo for his 8ga. parker double barrel.

Supposedly condoms come in three sizes, small, medium and liars.

NJ

NJ: Actually the other guy in the hunting party DOES shoot one handed. Lost his right arm just below the shoulder in duck blind accident @ age of 16. He does everthing himself...with one arm! Good guy, but he's the one who's stories change when he gets a little drunky...

He kept telling us he was calling in toms this past weekend when no one else was getting them to come to the calls

I think both of these fellas lie their tails off when describing where/how they shoot turkeys. Oh well, I got my THREE turkeys and don't have to deal with their lying tails until next year

OK, this made me think about a convo I recently had with H. H has 2 (female)supervisors who this week had babies. He tells me he wants to get a card form one of them. For some reason it irked me a little... I told him "Wait, she gets a card, and *I* didn't even get a card when I had *your* baby???" And you know what he said??? "I should've gotten you a card? I thought we both had the baby?" So I told him, "Hmmm, YOU were carrying someone inside of you who was systematically kicking and punching all your most sensitive regions, kept you up all night rolling around inside of you, and made you throw up literally THOUSANDS of times? And YOU were on bed rest and had half a hospital full of people reaching in YOUR vajayjay because you were in labor for DAYSSSS and then finally got cut open for a c-section? Ummm, yeah, your pregnancy and birth experience were COMPLETELY equal to mine." So he looks at me all wide-eyed and says "I'll have to remember that for next time. I guess I never thought that thought through too much"

:roflmao:

DNU,

Oh man! sorry about the bomb that just went off in your life OM3, just yesterday talking about bulls*** hunting and fishing stories and now this. Hope you do the polygraph as a minimum!

You might think about suing for alienation of affection too ,since you might need the money. Just being practical.

Guess you wish she lied about the size of the trout she caught, oy!

NJ

DNU,

I think you are overly sensitive about this due to your recent, horrible revelation from your WW. These guys are telling stories to be entertaining and in all likelihood most of the participants realize it is just a form of banter.

To the group of women don't lie, mostly men. That is a a load of BS. Women put on makeup to look better, they wear special underwear to arrange everything, they tell exaggerated stories about children, home, etc. But who cares, all of this is for public or casual consumption and to have interesting conversation on a CASUAL level.

Please do not cheapen the deep nature of the lies you have been told by comparing them to a story a guy was telling to make his W look good. Or, perhaps she is a bad cook and some of the other guys knew that, or a million other reasons it may have been for entertainment.

NJ,

Do you hate men. I find it very very hard to believe that you posted about the superiority of women to DNU. Have you read about his WW? I guess growing a baby inside her didn't fix her defects. How about my xWW? I really despise this sexist garbage.

How would you react to a similar post that claims that growing a baby in a person causes them to become defective?

6YL,

I really despise this sexist garbage.

Hmmm, I think the claim that women and men are equal in all respects would be hard to believe. I think the modern belief/fashion/superstition that all people are equal or should be treated that way as a social expedient is itself a prejudice.

But really in the area of larger issues do we ever have anything other than the biased sample we call our lives to refer to. What superior mode of thinking would you suggest we substitute?

I would suppose you know every female in the USA and can calculate the percentage error in my approach?

Our differentiation of the sexes is so fundamental that in an un-noticed way it is the first characteristic we try to determine on first meeting a person. Eliminate sexism how?

Do I hate men

Again just my biased sample, but I've met a ratio of 100 con men to every 1 con woman, who knows perhaps it is me.

So you're a fountain of objectivity?

How would you react to a similar post that claims that growing a baby in a person causes them to become defective?

I would say that until we can run a simulation on a massively fast computer of the human body that runs in real time with an arbitrary level of accuracy, all our opinions are subjective, and the result of statistical studies at best.

But we might never have an accurate enough mathematical model of the human body or a computer powerful enough to do that.

NJ

6YL,

Finding an opinion distasteful or impolite does not make it untrue.

NJ

NJ,

I'm not saying they are the same, but I didn't claim that women are defective (as you claimed about men). Are men and women the same, no they are different. Are men superior to women? Are women defective? I don't know and I'm not making claims about that. When I pick people for my rugby team I pick the biggest people. That is usually men but does include some tough women.

I certainly see a fair number of WW's on these boards, and I have met a ton of con-women while doing legal work. I meet alot of people in that environment and I have not noticed a strong moral difference between the sexes.

You actually claimed that women are more honest in response to a man whose WW has repeatedly lied to him in horrendous ways.

So the "sexist garbage" was about the claim that men are defective because they are not women and can't grow babies inside them. Seems kind of freudian to me but in reverse.

It is possible that we try to assess gender for more sexual reasons than some cultural bias. I usually try, but don't always succeed, to avoid prejudice based on the small number of people I have met. Humans (both sexes) are really really good at seeing examples that prove their prejudice and forgetting those that go against it. Read "The Black Swan" if you want a fairly boring discussion of the effect.

Just to be clear, I think that when one makes a claim like the one that women are essentially more honest than men. Then they have taken on the burden of convincing others. If I say, I don't know or don't believe the claim, then I should not have to provide data to refute a theory like that. I'm saying I have not seen this in my life, so it is hard to believe and it seems like a prejudice to me.

Nor true but still...just an opinion.

NJ,

I completely agree with you on this, after all I am a devout atheist. Of course, that does not mean that all distasteful or impolite opinions ARE true, either.

Just saying be careful when you look to prove a bias, you will find it if you look for it. I've done a fair amount of statistical studies, and it is very, very difficult to remove bias. So I try to remove it from my own opinions, and it is difficult to do.

I still find myself thinking that women are shorter than men on average.

6,
That's because you're 6' 4

GG

6YL,

Well you are 6'4", which would give you more insight as to the state of baldness of the tops of mens heads, which might lead to a prejudice about the relative lack of baldness amongst women.

Supposedly male chimps and male humans are more similar than male humans and female humans, but I don't know by what methodology that was determined, or even if it was misreported.

Guess that might be the source of the joke about why men have brains bigger than dogs, so they won't hump womens legs at parties.

I do understand the frailty of most knowledge btw, and I like the quote all science is physics or it is stamp collecting.

I've also heard that many people are born when they are rather young.

NJ

Based on my experience, there are just as much con-women as there are con-men - they're just better at it.

based on my experience I agree. Women are more like cats, aloof. Men are more like dogs. We run to you and lick your face and come when called and do tricks...

Again, just my experience. Please, I know this is not a universal truth, just my experience so save the flames...

I echo the above. My xWW told a MOUNTAIN of lies to me, our family, our friends, our MC, and on and on. She told lies that would have made it impossible for me to sleep at night or look myself in the mirror had they been mine...and then went right on manipulating, evading, scapegoating, blame-shifting, finger-pointing, rationalizing, and lying all the more even when caught red-handed. She would have choked her own mother had she stood in the way of her affair...and very nearly did to her father and my parents when they did so--the only thing that stopped her was physical distance.

Please don't tell me that "women are more naturally honest"....BS

I do think something changes in most women when they become mothers but don't think that has anything to do with why men embellish stories. As 6yl said it's likely moreso for entertainment purposes.

No wars if men could have babies? No way. Have you seen the stupid stuff women fight about? LOL

I'm female and I think women are naturally more manipulative...one of the reasons I prefer to work with men.

NJ,

Stats from the tall guy say that men are bald and women dye their hair. Oh and I don't know any women who are my height. My own statistical failing as a human brain is that I usually think of myself as the tallest man in any group, when I'm really only at 95 percentile.



Gabe

NJ,

But making up statistics definitely makes your statements untrue and surely not based on anything but bias on your part.

Women con men, men con women. You are a woman, hence you will meet more con MEN. DUH!!

That piece of "logic" is very bit as sound as your bias.

JL

Blackraven,
I'm with you that one - I prefer to work with men. I worked with 14 women in one department and it was awful.

6,
Sorry mentioning your height - if it makes you feel any better - I'm 5' 3" and think I'm always the shortest one in the room. And being the average height of is 5' 7" then maybe I am the shortest one?? Good thing for heels.

GG

gg,

No worries on the height thing. I do identify with the tall thing, now if only I had nice dark brown hair instead my dirty blond curls, then I could have the tall dark and sort-of handsome thing going.

Oops. That was meant for another forum.