Sad update - Marriage Builders® Forums

Marriage Builders

I received a letter from H's lawyer today requesting that I retain a lawyer. The very short letter indicates that my "husband" is seeking legal separation.

I have to find out why he hasn't filed for divorce because having been out of the house for as long as he has, Canadian law would recognize it.

In any case, I'm not well.

[ May 30, 2003, 04:56 AM: Message edited by: Terrified ]

Terri,

Well this is sad news but also freeing news. He has held you in bondage (mentally and emotionally) for soooo long. It is time he release you and your little one from his abusing control. Maybe then he can heal. I am not saying you were preventing his healing. I am saying that his need to abuse and control you prevent him from healing.

This OW is not that great. Otherwise you would have been cast aside a long time ago. Nope IMHO, he knows he needs his family. Note I said he needs. His need is probably greater than yours but NOT greater than your daughter's.

Fine line for a WS to walk in the fog.

Terri, others will post more valuable info later but for now, take a deep breathe. Know that you have done a good job at being a W and mother. That part of you won't stop (regardless of the sep or D). If so, that is ok.

You have made great strides since you have come to MB. Great and good strides. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Sending you a cyber hug.

take care,
L.

Thank you O for your kinds words.

I now feel I can become more detached, set boundaries and actually live them, enforce them.

I just am at a loss as to how quickly to reply to the letter because there's no mention of date

When talking to Steve last week, he advised me to move to plan B. Has anyone dealt with legal seaparation while in or starting Plan B?

Thanks again O.

Hello Terrified,

Sorry you are now going to the next step. I personally think that a legal separation and Plan B are mutually exclusive. People on the boards can have a legal separation and still be in Plan A. The sole point of Legal separation is to protect you and your children financially and can set up child visitations and other legal issues occurring due to living in separate households. Legal separation does not mean that the two of you have to have a divorce. I am not sure how long your H has been out of the house but it does not hurt to interview a few lawyers and start the ball rolling on the legal separation. You can also send the Plan B letter.

It will actually help you to have the legal separation because than you will have clear cut guidelines for child visitations and what he will have to give in way of financial support for the children.

I am sorry to hear your pain and shock at his request.

I am living in Alberta, and have been looking into the steps to filing for divorce, because I'm about to do so.

He probably wants to file for legal separation to divide up your assets before he files for divorce. This is because the process is as follows (to the best of my understanding it is), either he (or you):

a) file for divorce by filing "statement of claim and matrimonial property" and include a list of assets he is asking you for, and then you can play legal volley ball about the list, serving each other with lists of what you're willing or not willing to agree to, costing big bucks in hourly lawyers fees.

or

b) write up a separation agreement first so that all of the matrimonial property is already divided, and then filing for divorce will be an efficient process of a couple of months. (This is what I am attempting to do with my H before I file for divorce.)

That's just my guess. I'd say contact a lawyer yourself to learn more about what the laws are like in your province.

Take care,

Jen

T-

I am sorry to see this... but it could be good <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Maybe you can use this opportunity to speak calmly and kindly to him, and even lovingly. Tell him that you do not want a D -like plan B says- and that you hope this will make the seperation more amicable, and then -maybe- the two of you can work towards counseling in time, IF -plan B- he drops the ow? JMHO- be kind , but draw boudaries.

A legal seperation will help you with -
his coming in the house
child support
visistation issues
etc.
ground rules for this kind of living... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I know it is sad.

I had to file with the TX Attorney General- I did this in Nov.- and honestly I think it scared wh a bit. He now owes me a minimum amount per month.. although I am not satisfied with the amount....

Anyway, it also outlined in a -temporary order- visitation, that I was not totally aware would happen when I filed. ANd really regular visits are better than confusion... and good for the kids... despite my hatred of the whole situation, it is what crazy wh wants.

Anyway, I think it makes it seem more scary for both of us, and it has made him shape up a bit. Maybe there are some consequences you can impose on wh, that he should take care of , that would help you??? and make him think twice.....?

Such as more responsibility for home, family, etc..... childcare bills, etc? Even a yardman or paying for home repairs.

Keep us posted, prayers going out to you.

Hugs and Hope, Honey

My friend Terrified...

So your facing some of what scares you most...and you're still HERE!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

YOU'RE STILL HERE>>>YOU"RE STILL that wonderful mom you are and have been..

YOU'RE STILL the woman who makes a he!! of a good grilled bruschetta.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

YOU'RE STILL YOU....inside, outside, in your guts and in your soul...

nothing has really changed...still breathing in and out.....

and you are STILL the one that likes Barry Mannilow...for which you have been forgiven... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Get it TERR...for as bad as you thought this would be

HERE YOU ARE.....and YOU'RE OK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I bet it hurts....but move through that pain and imagine becoming who ever it is you want to be...

move though that pain and imagine being that woman who can not be affected by her spouses cruelity...

imagine moving through that pain and saying hey dude...turn the leafs game off and git out of here......there's a show on Lifetime (the womans channell) that I am planning on watching.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> and that's MY remote!!!!!!! and I never did think you were that good at hockey .....

This is not as scarey as you imagined it to be...
this is gonna be OK
you're gonna be all right...

you're gonna find your ground...and stand your ground...and you're gonna grow...and become someone you never imagined...and who won't reconize that old you....

hhhmmmm
is this what you really feared the most...
cause here you are...and you're gonna be fine...

I look forward to you taking those steps that leave that miserable self centered...what DID Lor call him...oh yeah..... one angry, immoral, buttheaded bully in the dust...

You will grow from this...in leaps and bounds if you let yourself risk...and take those scarey steps...and perhaps he will to...cause what has been hasn't worked....

perhaps he will grow and change...perhaps not...but nothing he does or doesn't do...should stop you not now...not ever...

ARK....

Ark^^ (with breasts <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

YOU are wonderful!

Susan

This is good .... movement out of a terrible stalemate.

Get legal representation right away.

This is pee or get off the pot time.

Pep

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Terrified:
The very short letter indicates that my "husand" is seeking legal separation.<hr /></blockquote>If "husand" is how it's spelled, that is SO typical!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I don't get how these so-called "legal" letters can mean much when they have such obvious mispellings or typos!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I am, and always will be confused on the term "legal separation" too. Why go through all the trouble of dividing assets and arranging custody and support, and then stay married??? At least on your H's part, if he's SO sure (as his words claim he is)... I don't get why he hasn't just filed for a D. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

It could be my spitefulness towards him (sad.. since I don't even know him <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )... but I say, beat him to the punch Terri... you should file for exclusive possession of the matrimonial home, and all of its contents . You can always alter your application in the future, if something changes.

If you still have my number... give me a call if you need to talk. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Or message me on here, and I'll email it to you.

Karen

T I know that this is hard for you and scary forging into the unknown, but please tell me what is different with this new news. You were living as a separated wife and mother. Now with this legal paper you will be able to get child support (if you were not already) plus you can noe set up legally child visitation schedule which will help you in the long run.. no more of him walking in and helping himself to your shower, food, washer, and dryer. I truly think this will also help you with detaching from him.

I also want to say that a comment you made a long time ago something with your mother, stuck in my head. It had to do with your reaction to something she said. YOU NEED to work on your self esteem, every thing your wasband said is not golden,(in other words he not GOD) the last time I heard GOD did not not leave his wife and kid for some slavic chic in some back water country, Please step away and look at the big pic, anyone that sides with you wasband is not a good canidate for good values and plus why should you care what a delusional man says any way. I know he was your wasband and you might have good memories but he is not that person now and who he is now is a person who is running and hiding and very angry. Pretty angry for a 2 yr old oh a mean a married man who says he is doing the right thing for himself I should think he would be brimming with happiness by now...

Please detach and focus on YOU!!!!!!!!!!! You are the main care giver for your little girl and as long as you are focus on your future and happiness the rest will fall in place, I know you go to church so LET GOD AND LET GO.........HE WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU AND YOU LITTLE BABE. You do have it in you and I know you can do this.
Know that you are loved my many here. Never doubt that. Be strong woman I know you have that strenght in you.

Unless it is truely a legal strategy, it sounds to me like your husband is still trying to manipulate and abuse you emotionally.

Terri, I really really wish you had already set up a visitation routine with him. Because going to plan B is going almost impossible, trying to get your daughter used to a new routine.

You really REALLY should be in Plan B, and he should NOT be allowed in your home.

If this is the way he wants to play, then fine, get an attorney, and file. Don't you dare just sit there crying while he acts like a jerk - thats EXACTLY what he wants. He's trying to punish you and get the upper hand.

Never once Terri, have you responded to his behavior, in a healthy way that results in consequences fof his actions. I truely believe that this is why you are here in this spot now.

Please take care of you Terri! Ark is right...you are FINE, and you will always be FINE, the earth hasn't shattered, and we all still love you for who you are! ((hhugs))

Hello everyone. Thanks for your replies.

Yes, I am here. Not shattered, not shocked but in a great deal of pain. Yes, it was coming. Most of you saw this. I did too. Just couldn't believe that "we" have come to this. Decided that I hate Canadian law that appears to favour abandoning spouses. "As long as the child is not in danger"...well, wait a minute, you're telling me that what my husband has done does not endanger the emotional well being of my child? Okay, I'm a little discouraged right now. I am now looking to find some good representation (Pepper, I am getting off the pot and I guess so is H) and have found out that most courts enforce one night a week and every other weekend.

Oh well, I must deal with this. Another reality I dislike but must grudgingly accept.

By the way, when meeting with Steve last Thursday, he did advise that I move to Plan B. Drop/offs...no letting him in the house...do not attend social functions where he'll be in attendance.

Guess what BR? I have been in Plan B since Sunday. It's now Friday. I don't answer the phone at work or at home when it's him. Haven't called him. I emailed him a schedule for the month of June before I received the dreaded letter. He dropped D off on Wednesday. I enforced the drop off at the door...a little resistance from D but in minutes, she was fine. I was the show of dignity in front of my H despite the fact that just 1/2 hour before, I had opened up the letter. And I think the legality has enabled me to enforce Plan B behaviour. Steve H. said I should be like the Bedford wives. No emotion. Courteous.

I have changed a little. The old me would have ranted and raved at how much pain he has caused. Now, he has to guess. Thank-you MB'ers. I have learned much.

Hello MN, <blockquote>quote:<hr />Legal separation does not mean that the two of you have to have a divorce.
<hr /></blockquote>Yes, but it's almost inevitable, isn't it? All this time and money to put together a written agreement...and then you reconcile? Knowing H as I do, by taking this step, he's pretty convinced that he wants to dissolve the marriage.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> It will actually help you to have the legal separation because than you will have clear cut guidelines for child visitations <hr /></blockquote>Yes, you're right. This will help me to enforce Plan B and become structured.

Hello Jen, Yes, I believe you're right about Option B. I checked it out yesterday.

Hello Honey, You always to manage to put a positive light on everything. Somehow, this one is a little tougher, isn't it?

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> despite my hatred of the whole situation, it is what crazy wh wants.
<hr /></blockquote>The way I feel exactly...

Okay Ark, You had me smirk, but that's all.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />you're gonna find your ground...and stand your ground...and you're gonna grow...and become someone you never imagined...and who won't reconize that old you....
<hr /></blockquote>God, I wish you were right. I don't feel that strength of your statements. I feel like I've lost the world underneath my feet but I'm TRYING Ark...

I'm going through the motions of life, Ark. Talking to a lawyer about breaking up a marriage is the s***s, you know? And what floors me is that HE did it...

Hi Topie, Thanks for pointing out my spelling mistake. OOPS...too emotional these days.

As Jen Brown pointed out, a written agreement becomes a better way (and legally advised) of setting the pace for the divorce. I wondered too but no hope there.

Hi SS,
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I truly think this will also help you with detaching from him. <hr /></blockquote>Yes, I believe you're right.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I know you go to church so LET GOD AND LET GO......... <hr /></blockquote>I will try.

Hi BR, Wondered about how you are doing physically? Hope you're better...

I do believe my H is going the legal route to get his custody right in writing and to get his share of the half the assets.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Never once Terri, have you responded to his behavior, in a healthy way that results in consequences fof his actions. I truely believe that this is why you are here in this spot now.
<hr /></blockquote>How should I have responded in the past?

BR, you filed before your reconciliation because that is what Steve H. advised. Had both you and your husband retained legal counsel? How far into the process were you?

You mentioned that you were at a certain level of acceptance with all of it?

Thanks again to all of you.

terr,

Hope you are well...

How are YOU in Plan b....how has the week been...

Terr...remember that even his choice to break vows and seek an emotional attachment is his alone to claim..

It is not a reflection of you, you as a wife, you as a mother...you as a spouse....

that he chose this path....

HE did do that....and yet that is no reflection on you that you believed in forever with him..
that you believed him when he said he loved you...etc...you are not a fool, or dumb, and people don't see you as that...

He chose a path that he himself is not happy with...that has little honor or nobility to..and still terrified that is not a reflection of you...and he will have to work it out...

people that know and love will see you just are you always have been...regardless that you believe that will seen as that wife that couldn't make him "happy"...that's not how the world works....people know differently...you KNOW differently...but you have to feel it and believe it in you....

ARK

Ark, I adore you. Honest. Cross my heart. Hope to die...(closer to the truth than what I would like)

I wish you were my neighbour so we battle over Barry blaring...and you could hit me over the head and push me to the place I need to be...

Ark, I am hurting. Not shocked. Just grieving who we were...I often wonder how he ignores it. How our assets will be split unemotionally when we worked so hard as a young couple to get to where we were...we were mortgage free, investment plans, debt free...now, it's just hard to look at this situation and think I'll be better off SOMEDAY.

On the other hand, he's willing to start fresh with someone else, buy a house...do it all over again WITH SOMEONE ELSE.

God, I HAVE TO GET PAST THIS.

Just bear with me. Don't give up.

[ May 30, 2003, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: Terrified ]

Terri,
Get a really, really good lawyer. I asked around and I wanted 2 things in my lawyer--Christian and a reputation as tough.

I got her. When I told my counselor my choice (and they've gone to the same church) he was a little scared because she has a reputation of going after wayward H's.

It wasn't my intent to ruin my H, not at all, in fact I wanted everything to be equitable at that point. But her reputation carried a weight. Even so, she is so pro-marriage, when our marriage reconciled, she never charged me for the paper work she had done or the 2 meetings.

If you've been advised to get a lawyer, don't [censored]-foot around. Meet this challenge with everything you've got. If needed you can always back off later.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />All this time and money to put together a written agreement...and then you reconcile? Knowing H as I do, by taking this step, he's pretty convinced that he wants to dissolve the marriage <hr /></blockquote>I know we're pretty unusual, but I served the papers, I wanted the divorce at the time. I was tired, had no hope left and wanted my life to be different than continuous separations. My H had threatened divorce for almost 2 years, he said he wanted it, had acted like a single guy, he'd told people we were getting divorced. I thought he'd be relieved I started the process. But...we reconciled.

It ain't over 'til it's over.

Terr,

Hope you are well...you know I just wanted to tell you that even though you may not see it..
your responses,
your posts,
you sound a lot stronger than I think you realize...
that I sometimes expect a total different response...and what I get is a woman who does sound stronger and more sure of herself....

I really mean that ....

When are you gonna get angry T? When are you gonna take the time you need...when is old whoseywhatsit...(the man who is not worthy to clean the dishes you eat off of...)..

When can we come up with a good nick name for "him'?
lets have a contest...nothing to mean...but something...I will have to think on this...hmmmmm... anyways....I digress as usual...

When is he gonna take your daughter and you have some time to just really get angry and rage over this...

you view the planning of your future with him with such hurt and pain...where's the anger that YOU did this and HE'S the one that F-d it all up...NOT YOU!!!!

anger as part of the grieving process is a good and natural thing...and you seem to still be in the other stages....
and that's OK as long as you don't take on the role of being to BLAME for this...cause that's ALL he's given you....and it's not true......

when are you gonna get mad that this guy blames you for everything....

And he doesn't need to see your anger..it's not for him...it's for you...to help you move on....

I realize this is unfair..you are at work and everything...but I am just curious..
where YOU are at in all this...and perhaps it's time to look at this situation with some different emotional thermometer...

I hope you take Lor's advice....

And I for one adore you AND Canada...I love nothing more than to spend my summer vacation laying on rocks warmed by sun on the banks of the Georgian Bay watching the northen lights..

I love Lake Huron and have many time visited St. Sault_Marie...(not sure if that's how you spell it...)
Hey check that neighborhood...for for-sales signs... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (but I'm not sure the government will let me in)...JUST KIDDING!!!!

ARK

Hello.

I'm okay. Looking for good counsel. Went to see one yesterday who happens to be in the same building as my H's counsel. She says my H's counsel is a really good person. Fair but good.
However, when I met with her, she was a little hard of hearing and cold. I guess that's lawyers for you.

Anyway, I thought I'd meet with a few more before making my selection. I made another appt today with someone else who isn't as available. This one seemed READY and willing. Another one I've made an appt with is not able to see me until June 24th and she charges for consultation.

Anyone have any ideas/advice on how to select proper counsel?

Of course, I sent a formal letter off to my H's lawyer indicating I was in the process of selecting counsel and would provide him with a status by next week. Do you think that's okay?

I'm not stalling. Just don't want to be rushed into such a key decision. I just received the letter last Wednesday.

How's my Plan B? Well, I haven't called him AT ALL. Friday, he dropped my D off at 6:00 as requested. This was "his weekend" but soccer and ballet until noon, lunch...led to a nap until 5:30. Not that he minded. He took her at 6:00. Came back at 8:30. Grumbling that she's a brat and it's all my fault in front of her.

Great. I responded curtly to D that her father shouldn't speak like that.

Closed the door. D didn't cry.

Next day, he picked her up at 12:00 noon. Said he'd be back at 6:30. Instead, he's back by 5:30.

I'm out. He goes in the house. Damn.

I had mowed the lawn. He goes out to trim the edges.

I ignore him. I'm really angry but say nothing.

Take D to the park.

I come home and resend him the Plan B email requesting he avoid any contact with me.

He fires one back accusing me of trying to keep his daughter away from him and actually has the b*lls to send me pictures of D.

I have to do this. Ark, I am angry.

Help me guys. How am I supposed to interact in dropoffs, email, etc.???

I'm learning so throw anything at me.

Lor, <blockquote>quote:<hr /> I asked around <hr /></blockquote>Who did you ask? Are there any resources out there that I can tap into?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I was tired, had no hope left and wanted my life to be different than continuous separations. <hr /></blockquote>Did you feel sad? During this stint with lawyers involved, how did you interact with your H? Did it affect the way in which you treated one another?

Ark, <blockquote>quote:<hr /> and what I get is a woman who does sound stronger and more sure of herself.... <hr /></blockquote>It's probably because I went out and bought a new leather jacket (camel) and a size 0 black Ralph Lauren dress. Not bragging about the size...it's what the last several years has done to me.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I realize this is unfair..you are at work and everything...but I am just curious..
where YOU are at in all this...and perhaps it's time to look at this situation with some different emotional thermometer... <hr /></blockquote>Just to let you know, today, I find myself angry. Angry at him for giving up. But I want to grow Ark, not become embittered.

And guess what? I love Georgian Bay too! So what if different music is playing...it's absolutely one of the most beautiful places in Ontario.

Thank-you.

I'm trying to proceed forward with every ounce of dignity I can muster.

Terri,
When I asked around, I asked friends who had been divorced, a friend who is a litigator (doesn't do divorces), friends who have many lawyer friends. 3 names kept coming up and my plan was to call their offices to find out their procedures...and the first one was a match.

Of course, I sent a formal letter off to my H's lawyer indicating I was in the process of selecting counsel and would provide him with a status by next week. Do you think that's okay?

Sounds fine.

Grumbling that she's a brat and it's all my fault in front of her.

Great. I responded curtly to D that her father shouldn't speak like that.

Honestly, sometimes he sounds so immature and like a big ole brat himself.

I'm out. He goes in the house. Damn.

Did you specifically state you don't want him to enter your house if you aren't home?

He fires one back accusing me of trying to keep his daughter away from him and actually has the b*lls to send me pictures of D.

He's the one who has chosen to move out of the home and stay out, so it is because of his actions that he doesn't see his daughter as much as he could if he lived with you. His unreasonableness (sp?, word?) is why you no longer wish to speak with him on a regular basis.

Help me guys. How am I supposed to interact in dropoffs, email, etc.???

I think you've got it. Polite if you have to speak. If he's not polite, tell him you want him to leave. If he won't leave and continues to be ugly, call the cops. If he does leave, you can reiterrate in an email how you wish him to behave. If he natters on about how awful you are, make a copy (document threats, accusations), but don't reply in kind.

Did you feel sad? During this stint with lawyers involved, how did you interact with your H? Did it affect the way in which you treated one another?

I think I was sad, angry, determined, frustrated, irritated, self-protective and wished it was all different.

But my situation was different than yours at that point. When I served the papers, my H did Plan A, so there he was at last being sweet, considerate, nice, helpful, loving and I was acting like in the manner of someone in the process of divorce with boundaries and distancing. I told him that I wasn't his best friend, his lover, his counselor or comforter.

And, his feelings were hurt because he was trying to do the right thing by then.

I didn't trust his change of heart was real, it wasn't the first time he'd done some of that while we were separated. So, I felt torn, I wanted to believe him, but I didn't dare.

If he'd acted like your H, I think I would have been more sure I was on the right track.

I think your H in some way has liked the arrangements between the 2 of you. He's had his family when he wished. He's hit on you (that's a form of testing I think). But he's also been brutal in pushing you away and threatening you with not only his loss as a husband but with losing custody of your daughter. Something about all of that has met his needs.

Now that you have changed the parameters, he has to change too. He has to because you won't allow his verbal abuse or pseudo-husbandly acts. So, because he is an angry person, he's going to be angry and you have to know that you have to limit his opportunities to be angry with you in your presence.

Also, by always coming to your place, you haven't been able to be the one to walk out. If some of these exchanges take place on his turf, you take your daughter and leave. He definitely has a power and control game going and you are breaking up the game format.

Terrified this might sound dumb but look for people who are "happily" divorced and as for a referral. by happily i mean they are happy with the outcome of the divorce and they were treated fairly. good luck

T=

Take care of you and your darling D now... that is what you can do.

My heart goes out to you.

Be very choosy and find someone you like.. that will help a lot... someone you trust. Referrals are important.

I have worked in the legal field, and some will just take you for the dough , and they really don't care about you.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I hope your days get better, and you continue to grow stronger. I hope you start to keep him from coming in the house unannounced and unchaperoned.

Is he really trimming the hedges and filing for a legal sep? Something is wrong in this picture....

Step back and don't lb. He is baiting you for it, whenever he can. Don't bite. He wants you to prove you are the bad guy... refuse to do it. Be respectable wonderful sweet T.

Remember that he is the bad guy that left you, and that you cannot trust him right now.. he is sick ... like a man you see through the barred windows of the insane assylum. Do not strike back at this wounded animal -not sure if that fits him- .... be kind, but keep your distance... protect you and your D.

It is almost like disciplining a rebellious teen, or a bad 3 yr old... throwing a fit. YOu have to do it with love, but firmness and distance, and protect yourself. DOn't let him pull you in.

Stay strong, he wants to push your buttons. Remove them, and don't let him know where they are..... Play poker face when he tries.. you can remanin calm, just remember who he is right now.

I am trying like heck to do the above myself T. Stay serene in the storm.

Hope and Hugs,

Honey

Hello everyone,

Well, Plan B or my attempt at sticking to my guns seems to be having a negative effect. Is this normal?

He sent me an email blaming me for everything telling me that I'm doing wrong by my daughter when I tell her that Papa can't stay or Papa has to leave or that Papa has to leave when her mother gets home.

Am I wrong to demand this?

God, I'm tired of this. I don't play this game well.

I'm not doing well today but am at work and smiled for my daughter today.

Thanks Lor, M and Honey.

I need you more than ever right now.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />wrong by my daughter when I tell her that Papa can't stay or Papa has to leave or that Papa has to leave when her mother gets home <hr /></blockquote>My first ornery response: "I didn't realize you wanted to move home. Have you notified your lawyer?"

The truth is he DIDNT stay when he should have, most times he WONT stay, he does LEAVE, and that is his CHOICE.

He does SO love to spin the truth of his actions to blame you.

How about "H, regarding your email about everything I'm doing wrong, I am following the advice of my counselor who is a professional specializing in marriage & family, especially those with the issues of infidelity and separations. You moved out X months ago, and this is what is best for our daughter under those circumstances."

T --
I love seeing your updates!

Quite predictable from his end.

Haven't you realized by now that EVERYTHING is your fault? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

The "reality" is that he says he wants a divorce. Well then, when is he going to start acting like it?

Divorced men don't do the gardening, tucking the kids in at nite and all the other perks he seems to want. This is his CHOICE and he needs to live with the consequences of his CHOICE.

If you're in Plan B, have you written him a letter?

If you have communicated to him that you want NO CONTACT -- then do not respond to him at all. He's just trying to suck you into some kind of communication. He needs it.

You're done meeting his needs right?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />He sent me an email blaming me for everything telling me that I'm doing wrong by my daughter when I tell her that Papa can't stay or Papa has to leave or that Papa has to leave when her mother gets home. <hr /></blockquote>Well isn't that the funniest thing I have heard. He made the choice to LEAVE. He didn't do right by his daughter or you long ago. Now he has to face the consequences and he doesn't like not having control over you. T you have been here long enough to know that when Plan B begins the WS reacts with ANGER. They can't stand not having what they want, how they want it and when the want it. They will try to start any and every arguement under the sun, just so they can have contact and get control again. DO NOT RESPOND TO HIM AT ALL. Better yet, whenever he tries contact with you send the Plan B letter AGAIN and if he continues send one to him and HIS LAWYER stating that you have requested NO CONTACT and include any hateful emails, messages to his lawyer and give them to your counsel when you find a good one. What he is doing is normal for the WS who has had his control taken away. They will try to use whatever they can to manipulate you, get you angry and hurt you so they can feel better about themselves. You are doing great! Actually i had to reread this posters name when i saw it was YOU who actually started Plan B! PROUD OF YOU! YOU DESERVE SOME EASE OF MIND! Yes it is hurtful, but you will survive it, just take it day by day and keep posting! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

[ June 03, 2003, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: trying2_4give ]

Hello and thank-you.

Busy day at work which is good. However, my mind feels very "full" these days. Like I can only handle so much and then I'm done.

H expressed anger over my blocking his cutting emails...I faked the block but it appeared he didn't know the difference.

I'm starting to get the hang of Plan B. No fluff, no phone converations...none of his crumbs. No cutting remarks except the ones he leaves on my voice mail or email which are now one-sided.

And I really don't want to see him. I mean yes, I miss him and our marriage BUT I don't miss seeing him try so hard to push me away.

I don't miss seeing the yearning in his eyes for another woman or the evil anger.

It's lonely. I feel sad but I'm trying to keep busy.

Hey Lex, Good to hear from you.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Haven't you realized by now that EVERYTHING is your fault?
<hr /></blockquote>Oh yeah...

Have to get off the train...will finish later!

Love to all of you. Keep me strong!

Terrified, You are very right in doing plan B. You should know, and I think you do, that you can finish this through knowing that you have given and done your best to try to save the marriage. You have gone above and beyond in showing this man that you still wanted a marriage with him. You put up with all his emotional abuse, him turning his shortcomings around to blame on you and his sick mind games, and still treated him with kindness for too long. I know that you are hurting and we're so sorry this is not the outcome that you wanted, but this man has made you suffer for too long. This has taken a big toll on your mind and body. Size "0" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> It's time to think in a different mindset. So get ready. I got to a point where I saw this relationship is "sick" it's making me sick, physically and emotionally. He just keeps heaping trash on you. Realize that you can't live like this anymore. You are a good person, a valuable person, tell yourself , actually say it out loud, I am a valuable person that deserves to be loved and treated like a human being, not to be a punching bag for ws garbage. No doubt he needs counseling, but you can't change him or force him to do anything. You have to stand up and take care of you and your daughter. Go into the defense mode, " I have to take care of myself, I need to eat right, get sleep, I'll seek help to do this if I need it because I have to be healthy to take care of my daughter. There comes a time to get out of a sick relationship. You are right to not have contact with him. He is still acting like an a$$. Be tough no matter what he says, YOU have to place yourself as no.1 now, not him. Detach from him. You going to have to, to have a life for you. Don't take anymore bullsh#$ from him. He will do it as long as you let him and it's been how long? I am bs and am in recovery, but when I took a stand and stuck to my guns, my ws changed his tune on things. If plan b and you finding a lawyer changes your ws to want reconciliation then that is your choice too. You have suffered long enough. Go out there and reclaim your life! Hugs to you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My sister is divorced (no infidelity involved). She and her ex are not friends, but they cooperate and are fairly raising their 2 daughters with joint custody. They treat each other politely.

The reality of divorce is that once they were divorced, my ex BIL does not step foot in my sis's house. I mean, maybe he'll stand at the door, or rarely enter the foyer, but that is it. ANd my sis does not hang at his house.

The reality of divorce is that my exBIL is now remarried, and my sis has been dating her boyfriend for about 8 months. They have both moved on from each other and are happier for it.

The reality of divorce is that when someone burgled my sis's garage and broke the window, my BIL did not offer to come over and repair it, nor did my sis ask. She got a handyman to take care of it.

The reality of divorce is that both of these two parents are totally involved in their children's lives. But their interactions are bound by a legal document which specifies to the letter who gets the children when, who pays for what. So on Sunday at 1 p.m. my sis could be driving her kids to her ex's because that is what the document specifies.

During the divorce it is important to make these agreements crystal clear, so everyone knows exactly what needs to happen. When there is a disagreement, you go back to that document, and it had better be clear, because if you can't resolve it with the document, the next step is court, which is messy and expensive.

You have suffered for a long time, T. I hope you will have the strength to extricate yourself from this emotionally abusive relationship. You deserve love and a stable mate and face it, your H can not be that man. You've given him every opportunity.

Your Plan B will be met with rage because your H does not want to experience the consequences of his actions. A Husband who moves out in order to hook up with another woman do not retain rights to hang out in his exwife to be's house tucking in their child. In fact, frequently their exwives remarry and the new H does not want the old H hanging out and trimming the hedges!

Remember, he made the choice. And he could make the choice to come back to you, begging forgiveness and trying to make it up to you. But he isn't. Is this what you want for your life, T? Your life is precious and time is passing. Why spend it breaking your heart over him?

Terrified you are doing GREAT! But i think you have it wrong. And i think H will be hitting his bottom very soon now that you have started Plan B! Don't you see: <blockquote>quote:<hr />BUT I don't miss seeing him try so hard to push me away. <hr /></blockquote>If he really wanted you AWAY he wouldn't keep trying to contact you, email, phone messages. Yes he is saying hurtful things and blaming you for everything but if he really hated you their would be INDIFFERENCE, not ANGER! And this man is so angry on the inside that he used you to be the focus of that anger. But truly he is angry at himself, guilty and shamed. He just would rather die right now than to let those feelings come out. So instead he pushes that anger/blame to you. Stick to Plan B! You will see some weird things to come, so expect the worse with no surprise. But foremost protect yourself financially!

Hello,

Well, H left me a voice mail at work yesterday telling me he'd be home by 8:00. I arrived home by 7:20 and guess whose truck is in the driveway...grrr

Okay, I then called one of my close friends who leaves nearby, asked her to come by. She has three kids, works and is just generally one of the busiest people I know. I hated calling her but needed to...would help my D's reaction when my H left and of course, me too.

She came at 7:45. We walked in together. H was downstairs in the family room with D. Kids went down. I went up and changed. H attempted some small talk with my friend. Uncomfortable. He left by 8:00.

He calls from the car as soon as he left. I don't pick up. It's about D's knapsack. Sounds mad. Bitter. Ornery (good word, Lor!). He left the knapsack at MIL's.

Okay, another day. Made it.

Tonight, don't even have to worry. It's MY night.

Tomorrow morning I dread. I generally leave the house at 7:00. He drives D to school. So, what do I do?

Don't want to see him. Should I get in the car and wait until he drives up?

Dear T2F, Thanks for your input.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> But truly he is angry at himself, guilty and shamed. He just would rather die right now than to let those feelings come out. <hr /></blockquote>I wish this were true.

God, this is really not easy and it is definitely LONELY.

Thank-you for all your help.

T -

It bothers me so much to read that he just comes in and makes himself at home.

You changed the locks quite some time ago -- how does he again have access to your home?

Sounds like its time once again to change the locks. There is no reason whatsoever for him to be inside your home without your presence or permission. Its simply not right. I wouldn't dream of wandering into my EX's home any time I felt like it. This is a reality of divorce that he seems unwilling to accept. This is part of his choice -- not to be a part of his daughters homelife. Oh well, poor him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

You came up with a brilliant plan to bring the neighbor over with you. Good thinking!!!

Plan B means no contact, and as long as he has keys to your home he's going to continue to try to force these interactions (because he NEEDS you to be his target for his anger) Take yourself out of the equation. Let OW handle that EN for him (Ha Ha)

Hi Lex,

Good to hear from you again. H doesn't have a key. He comes in through the garage. Garage door to the house wasn't locked...my fault. I will lock it from now on so that he can open the door but not the house.

Lex, It's been four days since any dropoff contact. Two weeks for any conversation...

I'm trying and I continue to hope for that miracle.

Just keep talking me through this, Okay?

T-

I do think the earlier poster was correct... Your WS is angry and hating himself.

The opposite of love is not hate/anger- is it indifference. We get the most angry and our worse selves come out when we deal with those we dearly love, and who mean the most to us.

He is still very connected, yet in abusive ways. Not to be mean, most ws are abusing bs.

Does he still have a garage door opener? I would ask him to return it, and please do not come in the garage.

Try this- The seperation is so hurtful to me, that I need more respect between us, and for us to truly respect each others seperate homes. I think imho, he should visit with DDaughter, at his parents or his -own- home, not your house.

I am now going to work out and brining my kids to the play area at the fitness club, I am jumping in the pool to swim some stress off.

Do something for you daily, even if it is just a walk around the block to calm you. Get those endorphins up. Are you on antid? I am as of late, and believe me, I can contribute that to my baby step improvements- it is yet another way to boost yourself through the pain.

I'll ck in on you later. Hope this evening goes well.

Hugs, Honey

You are doing GREAT T! FINALLY YOU ARE TAKING CARE OF YOU!
In the morning does he come inside to wait for your daughter to get ready? How does this work. This is what I did. On dad nights, H would pick up our child from school and then keep him overnight. Drop him off at school where I would pick him up on my nights. We never had to see each other. If you can maybe rearrange the schedule so that you don't have to see him at all. If he complains, ignore it, he wanted a divorce well this is what divorce is. Making schedules where their is no real interaction. He just can't come and go as he pleases anymore. And remember LOCK THAT DOOR FROM THE GARAGE THAT LEADS TO THE HOUSE FROM NOW ON!

Hello and thank-you for keeping up with me. It helps me to stay above water, so to speak.

Just wanted to let you know that I'm continuing to stick to my guns. Yesterday, D was sick so I kept her home from day care. H called at about 4:30. I didn't answer. He said he was dropping by with some soup from his mother...etc. I immediately called him back telling him not to...was a little stern but had to be. Is it okay to be stern?

In any case, he listend. I locked ALL the doors just in case.

Then he called again. D answered. No problem. I brought D up to bed. At about 10:00, the phone rings, then again at 10:30 and then again at 11:20. I ran downstairs in a sleep state and answered. It was H. Wondered whether he was picking up D in the morning for school. Fine. I said. Hung up.

This morning, I was running around cleaning up toys, laundry and dishes (got up at about 4:30 a.m.) Well, D gets up at 5:30. I almost have the house spotless again at this point. H shows at 6:30. Supposed to be 7:00 a.m. I'm still in my robe. I run upstairs. Have D's lunch cooking. Just so many things to do but I didn't face him, ignored him...no calls. NOTHING.

And you know what? If felt okay. No abrasiveness from him. No cold shoulder because I didn't have to face him. No sarcasm. No criticsm.

And I get to pick her up today because he's "BUSY"...told D. To hear his voice...WOW. I can see how plans can crumble. Maybe he felt the same way? He sounded not so angry...wistful almost...but I managed NOT to cry afterwards.

I miss him terribly. I'm sad BUT...this is better than "crumbs". Plan B is definitely not for the weak and I was only recently, too weak to do this. Maybe it's a little late for Plan B? I don't know. Time will tell.

Had a guy (my BIL's friend) do some crown moulding for me. Well, he called me yesterday. A little interested...but I told him I still love my H and am working on my marriage. Not ready for any advances.

Hi Honey, How are you doing in your Plan B? Thinking of you...

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Does he still have a garage door opener? <hr /></blockquote>Yes. Good idea to have him return it.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> The seperation is so hurtful to me, that I need more respect between us, and for us to truly respect each others seperate homes. I think imho, he should visit with DDaughter, at his parents or his -own- home, not your house.
<hr /></blockquote>Am trying to reinforce so much more than before. I actually believe that he's starting to feel uncomfortable in the house.

Hope you had a good time at the fitness club.

Hi Trying, Thanks for keeping up.
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> You are doing GREAT T!<hr /></blockquote>You think so? I'm not so sure. I need constructive criticsm and help with Plan B "steering".

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> If you can maybe rearrange the schedule so that you don't have to see him at all. <hr /></blockquote>I'm going to try every week to make sure that I see him less or not at all. This week...only once.

Hi T-

I now have every other friday off! I love it! I worked from home yesterday so that was great too. However, I have to keep this short b/c I am cleaning my all too messy home -depression does that to me- and my son is turning 11 monday and we are hosting a boys sleepover saturday night. Tomorrow am we have swim team for son... also.

I am proud of you. YOu are doing great. About the garage door opener... I can't remember if I got mine back- I think I did...???? I used to unplug the darn thing to keep him out... it scared me that he would come in and take things.

I am sorry you are having to plan b. My plan b is not a total plan b, but more than I have done before. I grow more angry at him... nowadays... so sick of this life.

I am glad you are doing better and having less interaction, and less anger.... spewed at you.

Crown molding sounds nice! Good for you.

Glad you are growing stronger, your post sounds very strong today.

I have my ups and downs... the more I move on, the more I realize how happy I was before I met him... but we were so happy together, and his rewritten history b/c of some hard times that most couples experience- oh, yes btw alcoholism... ugh....

I hate that rewritten history and can digress on that one.

Think happy thoughts and keep moving forward. Have a great day.

L

T,
YES I THINK YOU ARE DOING WONDERFULLY! That is why I call you "T" now instead of TERRIFIED! Yes, you are still scared but you are not terrified enough that you won't take care of your emotional well being any more! You are doing fine, just take it slowly. Remember you will have bad days and good days. You never thought you would survive being stern, or doing a Plan B but you did and are! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hello and thank-you.

Honey, Terrific to hear that you have every other Friday off (is that summer Fridays for you) and that you can also work from home. I do that every Thursday which helps out largely with getting my D to school and back (my commute time is 1 1/2 hours one way).

Sounds like you have a busy weekend which is a good thing in our situations. Busy keeps the mind away from...well, you know.

Today, D has soccer at 9:00 and Ballet (her last lesson)at 10:45. I decided to coach her micro team so that's another thing I thought would keep me busy.

I'm not so sure I feel strength but it's a little more consistent emotionally than dreading our encounters.

Take care of yourself Honey. Try not to digress.
Enjoy your weekend.

Hi Trying, <blockquote>quote:<hr /> YES I THINK YOU ARE DOING WONDERFULLY! <hr /></blockquote>I don't feel like that but thank-you for the encouragement. Honestly, I am quite "terrified" inside. Thinking that maybe I waited too long in Plan A, thinking Plan B is too late because his new life is the habit, doesn't miss home, doesn't miss me, etc.

Any of this make sense? In other words, did these boundaries come too late?

In any case, thank-you.

Yes, you DO sound stronger! Hang in there, I know this all has not been easy on you. You can do it!

Hi, Terri,

I haven't responded to you in quite awhile. I've been off GQ boards, mostly. I hang out on D/D, since that's where I "belong." <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I did see a few things in your posts here that I wanted to respond too, tho.

First of all I think I would have been livid if H were acting like YOURS, and then called and said, he'd be "home by 8 with D...." WTF?!?!?! THIS IS NO LONGER HIS HOME!!!
GRRRRRRRRRR. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

OK, calmer now.....I don't think there's any such thing as "too late" to do Plan A, or Plan B. I think they are effective eventually, AND, never, NEVER forget they are for YOU! Plan A is to make the changes in YOU that were your shortcomings in the M, and Plan B is for YOUR "peace, and preserving any remaining love for H left."

WHEN you are ready to quit being on the rollercoaster, you will know to go to Plan B. I hear it in your posts that you are pretty much THROUGH now with his goofiness (calling it that for lack of a better term!)

You're doing great, and YOU"LL BE FINE!!! You are a strong and intelligent woman.

God Bless.

Terrified,

It's much easier to adhere to Plan B when you think about the logical reasons behind it. Think about this:

Plan B decreases your suffering....if you don't see or converse with your spouse and have to face daily the betrayal of his actions, it is easier to function from day to day.

It avoids rewarding selfish behavior while your spouse is seeing the OW and having needs met by two women and turning him into a cake man. Get's him off of the fence.

It is for the purpose of ending the affair after laying the groundwork in Plan A...which presents you as an attractive alternative to the affair.

It stops manipulation by selfish spouses.

It makes you feel stronger and more in control.

And even if he doesn't come back....you have a headstart in getting over him.

You stay strong. We'll help.

[ June 07, 2003, 06:16 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]

Hello. Thank-you. Wonderful support system, you guys are.

H went away on a soccer tournament for the weekend. Was good for no contact. Feels distant, though. As if I don't know him anymore. Actually didn't know he was going away. His mother told me only AFTER she invited me and D over for Sunday lunch. Said yes. Kind of developing a different friendship with my IL's. Don't talk about H at all. Had lunch. She made one of my favorite dishes. D and I brought them specialty ice cream. We sat outside after lunch for a few hours.

Saturday was soccer (love coaching those cute kids!) and ballet followed by garden work (Ark, I'm not doing such a bad job). Brought D to a nursery and picked out some wonderful stuff for my two front pots. Then took her to see my BIL's play (Oliver). D loved the boy who played Oliver

Not a bad weekend. Tried hard not to think of H and what he was doing or NOT doing. (Watched Sweet Home Alabama...wow...heartwarming after 7 years. He definitely "STOOD" for his marriage.)

All I know is that I will always be grateful to my IL's for continuing to love me and show their support of me.

This upcoming week...ballet recital on Saturday. My IL's, my H and my mother are attending. Will be interesting and do not know how best to handle the whole thing in light of no contact? Any suggestions would be appreciated?

Also, have to go on a business trip on Sunday (thought it best since it is Father's Day. Don't come back until Thursday. Am a little worried about her sleep arrangements.

Hello BTDT, Thank-you! It's been awhile...

Hello Lupo, Hope you're doing well. You sound good.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I don't think there's any such thing as "too late" to do Plan A, or Plan B. <hr /></blockquote>The few posts I read this weekend seem to have indicated Plan B can come too late...that's what made me think a little...I hope you're right.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />You're doing great, and YOU"LL BE FINE!!! <hr /></blockquote>Not so sure but I'm glad you think so.

Take care.

Hello SF, <blockquote>quote:<hr /> Plan B decreases your suffering <hr /></blockquote>It has done that...but it's also made me more preoccupied. I drift more...more pensive, more isolated in ways. I talk very little of him and our situation. It's almost as if he doesn't exist in many ways.

Actually, I feel as if I'm jumping off a cliff.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />But it might fix you, and in a way that makes it hard for someone who loves you, to ignore they love you. <hr /></blockquote>Really love this, SF!

T --
You sound strong and healthy.
I think you really truly needed a break from his constant criticism.

I can just imagine the little soccer team -- how cute! I coached my kids in baseball for many years, and I still see many of their teammates at many events. Its fun to see all of them growing up.

He seems to be respecting NC. Did you send him a letter?

I'm glad your relationship with your in-laws is evolving. I think its wonderful that they still want you to visit and spend time with them. I've been erased from my ex's family. Amazing how you can spend 19 years with people and they can write you off in a second. Oh well, it shows that I was always perceptive about the depth of their caring. They were always more of a "show" family than one of real caring.

I spent my weekend watching my daughters softball team play in a tournament. Its one of my favorite ways to spend a weekend. And now that summer is here, we're going to ball games nearly every day of the week.

Take care T -- keep posting!

Hi Lex, Nice to hear from you. Sounds like you're doing well. Thanks for checking in on me and my "progress" for lack of a better word.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I can just imagine the little soccer team -- how cute! I coached my kids in baseball for many years, and I still see many of their teammates at many events. Its fun to see all of them growing up. <hr /></blockquote>I felt amazing for that short one-hour session on Saturday (my second). The kids are really CUTE...and they LISTEN. It's wonderful to hear that you coached baseball for so long.

For me, it fills a void. Am I strong and healthy? I don't think so. To be perfectly honest, I feel like a phony because what I truly feel inside is not what I show outwardly but hey...I'm still here.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> He seems to be respecting NC. Did you send him a letter? <hr /></blockquote>Well, I sent him an email (resent it twice). Didn't really want to respect it on Wednesday or Thursday. Called several times on Thursday...he left for the weekend on Friday so we'll see this week how it evolves.

I think I have to try to look my BEST for Saturday night. Have a hair appt on Wednesday.

I am lucky with in-laws so far...I do love them and always will.

Hugs to you.

You are extremely fortunate to have IL's that care enough for your daughter, that they don't get so involved in the situation. That's a blessing, and best for your dd... and you too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I'm envious of you for that. And I wish my IL's were capable of the same. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Oh well! It's their choice. All I can do is be here for the boys WHEN H's family disappears into the woodwork.

I'm worried about your "downs". I've forgotten... are you on any anti depressant meds? If not, you might want to look into it. If so, then I'd talk to your dr about changing them, because they're not working if you're getting (and staying) so down so often. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Where is dd staying while you're on your business trip? With her dad I hope. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> He needs more "reality checks" in his life. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Karen

Hello Terified,

Sorry I have not posted sooner. I have been busy. You seem to be doing really well. I know you feel like you are faking it. I am sure you also feel that it is not working. But I do see your H acting different to you. He will still try and push the boundries. Now is the time to stay firm. If you have to send the Plan B letter 50 times do so. I would also make sure that you do not allow your H into the house anymore. It seems to me he feels he has a right to come and go as he pleases. He does not. He gave up that right when he moved out.

How is the search for a lawyer going? I wish I knew anyone but I do not for Canada. I have to say I admire you. You worked hard at Plan A and now are implamenting Plan B. Plan B is so hard to do. You are stronger than you think. Hang in there super woman!!! BTW it must be so fun to watch all the cute little kids running around the field.

Hello everyone. Thanks.

I'm feeling rather low today. Walking around aimlessly and without spirit (normal for me).

Heard his voice on my work voice mail (left a quick msg).

Could it be that he has totally disconnected himself from who we were so easily? Can't believe it...

Out of sight, out of mind...

But he hasn't seen ME. Is that supposed to do anything to them??? Anything at all? Do WS's believe it's so over that it just doesn't matter?

I had an outside meeting today. Walked past a place where H and I had been 10 years ago...just so many DAMN memories. How has he discounted them as non-existent? Perhaps he has healed, mourned, grieved...and moved on??

Wow...are these questions normal in Plan B????

I have to get past all of this at some point but I know that I will never be HAPPY again as I was. I will never be the carefree, optimistic and just plain secure of my future. You just don't erase 20 years of your life...and rebuild without severe pain and scars.

I will never be happy and feel the same joy again in my life. That's the way I feel and have always felt.

Sorry.

Hi Topie, Yes, I'm lucky with my IL's. We have a mutual love and respect for one another. They cook for me, keep me close and support Jenna and I. My MIL and I talk each day.
Hope you're well today.

Hi MN, Thanks for checking in...as you have read, I don't feel so great.

Take care

Terri,
You might not ever be as you were. But, your future will hold happiness, if you allow it.

You don't think you'll be happy the day you see your daughter accomplish something wonderful, and know you were steadfastedly there for her all her life?

Do you ever watch (coach) one of her games and feel really delighted at some glimmer that they are catching on? Or laugh because they so aren't catching on?

Some day, out of the blue, you are very likely to suddenly think, "I feel good." Maybe that isn't happiness, but accomplishment, satisfaction, moments of joy are a part of your life.

I was doubtful of future happiness for a long time. But, I untied my well-being from that of being married, even my role as a mom. My well-being is within my control. I might react unhappily to outside forces, but within me, I feel balance, the knowledge that I'm ok.

I know I'm probably not going to talk you into happiness today...but...keep an open mind and heart that down the road, you won't feel exactly like you do today.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Terri}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Hi Terrified

I know how sad you must feel at the moment. I'm not able to give you any advice on how you should deal with your situation and your pain - but believe me - you WILL feel happy again. Maybe even sooner than you think possible right now.
You WILL get through the grief and sorrow and even feel stronger and more confident then ever before.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Could it be that he has totally disconnected himself from who we were so easily? Can't believe it...
Out of sight, out of mind...

But he hasn't seen ME. Is that supposed to do anything to them??? Anything at all? Do WS's believe it's so over that it just doesn't matter? <hr /></blockquote>Maybe it is common for WS's to act like that? My WS seems to suddently have forgotten everything he liked about me and our life together. He's not the man I knew before the A.

You're in my prayers!

Hello Lor, Good to hear from you. Hope you're well.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />You don't think you'll be happy the day you see your daughter accomplish something wonderful, and know you were steadfastedly there for her all her life? <hr /></blockquote>Absolutely but the sense of completeness of joy...I can't explain it but it's gone. Everything is always tinged with a bit of sadness. It's like I smile and always wish he was a part of it which brings on the sadness. Does that go away? It's been so long, Lor. I don't know what it feels like anymore to just feel "good", "whole", "unembarassed"...like I'm naked in front of a laughing audience...had dreams about this growing up.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a grumpy personality. Most days, no one knows anything about the negative except you dear MB'ers but I've become stoic in many ways...

Love to you

Hello Danish,

I must have been posting when you replied. Thank-you for your thoughts.

In my heart, I know that I will never feel complete because of my D, because I will have to share her according to "visitation" schedules or share her with the "OW" . I just can't accept this component because without my D, there is something missing to my day.

It will be a long time before this will be okay for me.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> My WS seems to suddently have forgotten everything he liked about me and our life together. He's not the man I knew before the A.
<hr /></blockquote>Absolutely true and very sad...

Take care.