T=

Take care of you and your darling D now... that is what you can do.

My heart goes out to you.

Be very choosy and find someone you like.. that will help a lot... someone you trust. Referrals are important.

I have worked in the legal field, and some will just take you for the dough , and they really don't care about you.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I hope your days get better, and you continue to grow stronger. I hope you start to keep him from coming in the house unannounced and unchaperoned.

Is he really trimming the hedges and filing for a legal sep? Something is wrong in this picture....

Step back and don't lb. He is baiting you for it, whenever he can. Don't bite. He wants you to prove you are the bad guy... refuse to do it. Be respectable wonderful sweet T.

Remember that he is the bad guy that left you, and that you cannot trust him right now.. he is sick ... like a man you see through the barred windows of the insane assylum. Do not strike back at this wounded animal -not sure if that fits him- .... be kind, but keep your distance... protect you and your D.

It is almost like disciplining a rebellious teen, or a bad 3 yr old... throwing a fit. YOu have to do it with love, but firmness and distance, and protect yourself. DOn't let him pull you in.

Stay strong, he wants to push your buttons. Remove them, and don't let him know where they are..... Play poker face when he tries.. you can remanin calm, just remember who he is right now.

I am trying like heck to do the above myself T. Stay serene in the storm.

Hope and Hugs,

Honey

Hello everyone,

Well, Plan B or my attempt at sticking to my guns seems to be having a negative effect. Is this normal?

He sent me an email blaming me for everything telling me that I'm doing wrong by my daughter when I tell her that Papa can't stay or Papa has to leave or that Papa has to leave when her mother gets home.

Am I wrong to demand this?

God, I'm tired of this. I don't play this game well.

I'm not doing well today but am at work and smiled for my daughter today.

Thanks Lor, M and Honey.

I need you more than ever right now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">wrong by my daughter when I tell her that Papa can't stay or Papa has to leave or that Papa has to leave when her mother gets home </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My first ornery response: "I didn't realize you wanted to move home. Have you notified your lawyer?"

The truth is he DIDNT stay when he should have, most times he WONT stay, he does LEAVE, and that is his CHOICE.

He does SO love to spin the truth of his actions to blame you.

How about "H, regarding your email about everything I'm doing wrong, I am following the advice of my counselor who is a professional specializing in marriage & family, especially those with the issues of infidelity and separations. You moved out X months ago, and this is what is best for our daughter under those circumstances."

T --
I love seeing your updates!

Quite predictable from his end.

Haven't you realized by now that EVERYTHING is your fault? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

The "reality" is that he says he wants a divorce. Well then, when is he going to start acting like it?

Divorced men don't do the gardening, tucking the kids in at nite and all the other perks he seems to want. This is his CHOICE and he needs to live with the consequences of his CHOICE.

If you're in Plan B, have you written him a letter?

If you have communicated to him that you want NO CONTACT -- then do not respond to him at all. He's just trying to suck you into some kind of communication. He needs it.

You're done meeting his needs right?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He sent me an email blaming me for everything telling me that I'm doing wrong by my daughter when I tell her that Papa can't stay or Papa has to leave or that Papa has to leave when her mother gets home. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well isn't that the funniest thing I have heard. He made the choice to LEAVE. He didn't do right by his daughter or you long ago. Now he has to face the consequences and he doesn't like not having control over you. T you have been here long enough to know that when Plan B begins the WS reacts with ANGER. They can't stand not having what they want, how they want it and when the want it. They will try to start any and every arguement under the sun, just so they can have contact and get control again. DO NOT RESPOND TO HIM AT ALL. Better yet, whenever he tries contact with you send the Plan B letter AGAIN and if he continues send one to him and HIS LAWYER stating that you have requested NO CONTACT and include any hateful emails, messages to his lawyer and give them to your counsel when you find a good one. What he is doing is normal for the WS who has had his control taken away. They will try to use whatever they can to manipulate you, get you angry and hurt you so they can feel better about themselves. You are doing great! Actually i had to reread this posters name when i saw it was YOU who actually started Plan B! PROUD OF YOU! YOU DESERVE SOME EASE OF MIND! Yes it is hurtful, but you will survive it, just take it day by day and keep posting! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ June 03, 2003, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: trying2_4give ]</small>

Hello and thank-you.

Busy day at work which is good. However, my mind feels very "full" these days. Like I can only handle so much and then I'm done.

H expressed anger over my blocking his cutting emails...I faked the block but it appeared he didn't know the difference.

I'm starting to get the hang of Plan B. No fluff, no phone converations...none of his crumbs. No cutting remarks except the ones he leaves on my voice mail or email which are now one-sided.

And I really don't want to see him. I mean yes, I miss him and our marriage BUT I don't miss seeing him try so hard to push me away.

I don't miss seeing the yearning in his eyes for another woman or the evil anger.

It's lonely. I feel sad but I'm trying to keep busy.

Hey Lex, Good to hear from you.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Haven't you realized by now that EVERYTHING is your fault?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh yeah...

Have to get off the train...will finish later!

Love to all of you. Keep me strong!

Terrified, You are very right in doing plan B. You should know, and I think you do, that you can finish this through knowing that you have given and done your best to try to save the marriage. You have gone above and beyond in showing this man that you still wanted a marriage with him. You put up with all his emotional abuse, him turning his shortcomings around to blame on you and his sick mind games, and still treated him with kindness for too long. I know that you are hurting and we're so sorry this is not the outcome that you wanted, but this man has made you suffer for too long. This has taken a big toll on your mind and body. Size "0" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> It's time to think in a different mindset. So get ready. I got to a point where I saw this relationship is "sick" it's making me sick, physically and emotionally. He just keeps heaping trash on you. Realize that you can't live like this anymore. You are a good person, a valuable person, tell yourself , actually say it out loud, I am a valuable person that deserves to be loved and treated like a human being, not to be a punching bag for ws garbage. No doubt he needs counseling, but you can't change him or force him to do anything. You have to stand up and take care of you and your daughter. Go into the defense mode, " I have to take care of myself, I need to eat right, get sleep, I'll seek help to do this if I need it because I have to be healthy to take care of my daughter. There comes a time to get out of a sick relationship. You are right to not have contact with him. He is still acting like an a$$. Be tough no matter what he says, YOU have to place yourself as no.1 now, not him. Detach from him. You going to have to, to have a life for you. Don't take anymore bullsh#$ from him. He will do it as long as you let him and it's been how long? I am bs and am in recovery, but when I took a stand and stuck to my guns, my ws changed his tune on things. If plan b and you finding a lawyer changes your ws to want reconciliation then that is your choice too. You have suffered long enough. Go out there and reclaim your life! Hugs to you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My sister is divorced (no infidelity involved). She and her ex are not friends, but they cooperate and are fairly raising their 2 daughters with joint custody. They treat each other politely.

The reality of divorce is that once they were divorced, my ex BIL does not step foot in my sis's house. I mean, maybe he'll stand at the door, or rarely enter the foyer, but that is it. ANd my sis does not hang at his house.

The reality of divorce is that my exBIL is now remarried, and my sis has been dating her boyfriend for about 8 months. They have both moved on from each other and are happier for it.

The reality of divorce is that when someone burgled my sis's garage and broke the window, my BIL did not offer to come over and repair it, nor did my sis ask. She got a handyman to take care of it.

The reality of divorce is that both of these two parents are totally involved in their children's lives. But their interactions are bound by a legal document which specifies to the letter who gets the children when, who pays for what. So on Sunday at 1 p.m. my sis could be driving her kids to her ex's because that is what the document specifies.

During the divorce it is important to make these agreements crystal clear, so everyone knows exactly what needs to happen. When there is a disagreement, you go back to that document, and it had better be clear, because if you can't resolve it with the document, the next step is court, which is messy and expensive.

You have suffered for a long time, T. I hope you will have the strength to extricate yourself from this emotionally abusive relationship. You deserve love and a stable mate and face it, your H can not be that man. You've given him every opportunity.

Your Plan B will be met with rage because your H does not want to experience the consequences of his actions. A Husband who moves out in order to hook up with another woman do not retain rights to hang out in his exwife to be's house tucking in their child. In fact, frequently their exwives remarry and the new H does not want the old H hanging out and trimming the hedges!

Remember, he made the choice. And he could make the choice to come back to you, begging forgiveness and trying to make it up to you. But he isn't. Is this what you want for your life, T? Your life is precious and time is passing. Why spend it breaking your heart over him?

Terrified you are doing GREAT! But i think you have it wrong. And i think H will be hitting his bottom very soon now that you have started Plan B! Don't you see: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BUT I don't miss seeing him try so hard to push me away. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If he really wanted you AWAY he wouldn't keep trying to contact you, email, phone messages. Yes he is saying hurtful things and blaming you for everything but if he really hated you their would be INDIFFERENCE, not ANGER! And this man is so angry on the inside that he used you to be the focus of that anger. But truly he is angry at himself, guilty and shamed. He just would rather die right now than to let those feelings come out. So instead he pushes that anger/blame to you. Stick to Plan B! You will see some weird things to come, so expect the worse with no surprise. But foremost protect yourself financially!

Hello,

Well, H left me a voice mail at work yesterday telling me he'd be home by 8:00. I arrived home by 7:20 and guess whose truck is in the driveway...grrr

Okay, I then called one of my close friends who leaves nearby, asked her to come by. She has three kids, works and is just generally one of the busiest people I know. I hated calling her but needed to...would help my D's reaction when my H left and of course, me too.

She came at 7:45. We walked in together. H was downstairs in the family room with D. Kids went down. I went up and changed. H attempted some small talk with my friend. Uncomfortable. He left by 8:00.

He calls from the car as soon as he left. I don't pick up. It's about D's knapsack. Sounds mad. Bitter. Ornery (good word, Lor!). He left the knapsack at MIL's.

Okay, another day. Made it.

Tonight, don't even have to worry. It's MY night.

Tomorrow morning I dread. I generally leave the house at 7:00. He drives D to school. So, what do I do?

Don't want to see him. Should I get in the car and wait until he drives up?

Dear T2F, Thanks for your input.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But truly he is angry at himself, guilty and shamed. He just would rather die right now than to let those feelings come out. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wish this were true.

God, this is really not easy and it is definitely LONELY.

Thank-you for all your help.

T -

It bothers me so much to read that he just comes in and makes himself at home.

You changed the locks quite some time ago -- how does he again have access to your home?

Sounds like its time once again to change the locks. There is no reason whatsoever for him to be inside your home without your presence or permission. Its simply not right. I wouldn't dream of wandering into my EX's home any time I felt like it. This is a reality of divorce that he seems unwilling to accept. This is part of his choice -- not to be a part of his daughters homelife. Oh well, poor him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

You came up with a brilliant plan to bring the neighbor over with you. Good thinking!!!

Plan B means no contact, and as long as he has keys to your home he's going to continue to try to force these interactions (because he NEEDS you to be his target for his anger) Take yourself out of the equation. Let OW handle that EN for him (Ha Ha)

Hi Lex,

Good to hear from you again. H doesn't have a key. He comes in through the garage. Garage door to the house wasn't locked...my fault. I will lock it from now on so that he can open the door but not the house.

Lex, It's been four days since any dropoff contact. Two weeks for any conversation...

I'm trying and I continue to hope for that miracle.

Just keep talking me through this, Okay?

T-

I do think the earlier poster was correct... Your WS is angry and hating himself.

The opposite of love is not hate/anger- is it indifference. We get the most angry and our worse selves come out when we deal with those we dearly love, and who mean the most to us.

He is still very connected, yet in abusive ways. Not to be mean, most ws are abusing bs.

Does he still have a garage door opener? I would ask him to return it, and please do not come in the garage.

Try this- The seperation is so hurtful to me, that I need more respect between us, and for us to truly respect each others seperate homes. I think imho, he should visit with DDaughter, at his parents or his -own- home, not your house.

I am now going to work out and brining my kids to the play area at the fitness club, I am jumping in the pool to swim some stress off.

Do something for you daily, even if it is just a walk around the block to calm you. Get those endorphins up. Are you on antid? I am as of late, and believe me, I can contribute that to my baby step improvements- it is yet another way to boost yourself through the pain.

I'll ck in on you later. Hope this evening goes well.

Hugs, Honey

You are doing GREAT T! FINALLY YOU ARE TAKING CARE OF YOU!
In the morning does he come inside to wait for your daughter to get ready? How does this work. This is what I did. On dad nights, H would pick up our child from school and then keep him overnight. Drop him off at school where I would pick him up on my nights. We never had to see each other. If you can maybe rearrange the schedule so that you don't have to see him at all. If he complains, ignore it, he wanted a divorce well this is what divorce is. Making schedules where their is no real interaction. He just can't come and go as he pleases anymore. And remember LOCK THAT DOOR FROM THE GARAGE THAT LEADS TO THE HOUSE FROM NOW ON!

Hello and thank-you for keeping up with me. It helps me to stay above water, so to speak.

Just wanted to let you know that I'm continuing to stick to my guns. Yesterday, D was sick so I kept her home from day care. H called at about 4:30. I didn't answer. He said he was dropping by with some soup from his mother...etc. I immediately called him back telling him not to...was a little stern but had to be. Is it okay to be stern?

In any case, he listend. I locked ALL the doors just in case.

Then he called again. D answered. No problem. I brought D up to bed. At about 10:00, the phone rings, then again at 10:30 and then again at 11:20. I ran downstairs in a sleep state and answered. It was H. Wondered whether he was picking up D in the morning for school. Fine. I said. Hung up.

This morning, I was running around cleaning up toys, laundry and dishes (got up at about 4:30 a.m.) Well, D gets up at 5:30. I almost have the house spotless again at this point. H shows at 6:30. Supposed to be 7:00 a.m. I'm still in my robe. I run upstairs. Have D's lunch cooking. Just so many things to do but I didn't face him, ignored him...no calls. NOTHING.

And you know what? If felt okay. No abrasiveness from him. No cold shoulder because I didn't have to face him. No sarcasm. No criticsm.

And I get to pick her up today because he's "BUSY"...told D. To hear his voice...WOW. I can see how plans can crumble. Maybe he felt the same way? He sounded not so angry...wistful almost...but I managed NOT to cry afterwards.

I miss him terribly. I'm sad BUT...this is better than "crumbs". Plan B is definitely not for the weak and I was only recently, too weak to do this. Maybe it's a little late for Plan B? I don't know. Time will tell.

Had a guy (my BIL's friend) do some crown moulding for me. Well, he called me yesterday. A little interested...but I told him I still love my H and am working on my marriage. Not ready for any advances.

Hi Honey, How are you doing in your Plan B? Thinking of you...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Does he still have a garage door opener? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes. Good idea to have him return it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The seperation is so hurtful to me, that I need more respect between us, and for us to truly respect each others seperate homes. I think imho, he should visit with DDaughter, at his parents or his -own- home, not your house.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Am trying to reinforce so much more than before. I actually believe that he's starting to feel uncomfortable in the house.

Hope you had a good time at the fitness club.

Hi Trying, Thanks for keeping up.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You are doing GREAT T!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You think so? I'm not so sure. I need constructive criticsm and help with Plan B "steering".

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If you can maybe rearrange the schedule so that you don't have to see him at all. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm going to try every week to make sure that I see him less or not at all. This week...only once.

Hi T-

I now have every other friday off! I love it! I worked from home yesterday so that was great too. However, I have to keep this short b/c I am cleaning my all too messy home -depression does that to me- and my son is turning 11 monday and we are hosting a boys sleepover saturday night. Tomorrow am we have swim team for son... also.

I am proud of you. YOu are doing great. About the garage door opener... I can't remember if I got mine back- I think I did...???? I used to unplug the darn thing to keep him out... it scared me that he would come in and take things.

I am sorry you are having to plan b. My plan b is not a total plan b, but more than I have done before. I grow more angry at him... nowadays... so sick of this life.

I am glad you are doing better and having less interaction, and less anger.... spewed at you.

Crown molding sounds nice! Good for you.

Glad you are growing stronger, your post sounds very strong today.

I have my ups and downs... the more I move on, the more I realize how happy I was before I met him... but we were so happy together, and his rewritten history b/c of some hard times that most couples experience- oh, yes btw alcoholism... ugh....

I hate that rewritten history and can digress on that one.

Think happy thoughts and keep moving forward. Have a great day.

L

T,
YES I THINK YOU ARE DOING WONDERFULLY! That is why I call you "T" now instead of TERRIFIED! Yes, you are still scared but you are not terrified enough that you won't take care of your emotional well being any more! You are doing fine, just take it slowly. Remember you will have bad days and good days. You never thought you would survive being stern, or doing a Plan B but you did and are! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hello and thank-you.

Honey, Terrific to hear that you have every other Friday off (is that summer Fridays for you) and that you can also work from home. I do that every Thursday which helps out largely with getting my D to school and back (my commute time is 1 1/2 hours one way).

Sounds like you have a busy weekend which is a good thing in our situations. Busy keeps the mind away from...well, you know.

Today, D has soccer at 9:00 and Ballet (her last lesson)at 10:45. I decided to coach her micro team so that's another thing I thought would keep me busy.

I'm not so sure I feel strength but it's a little more consistent emotionally than dreading our encounters.

Take care of yourself Honey. Try not to digress.
Enjoy your weekend.

Hi Trying, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> YES I THINK YOU ARE DOING WONDERFULLY! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't feel like that but thank-you for the encouragement. Honestly, I am quite "terrified" inside. Thinking that maybe I waited too long in Plan A, thinking Plan B is too late because his new life is the habit, doesn't miss home, doesn't miss me, etc.

Any of this make sense? In other words, did these boundaries come too late?

In any case, thank-you.

Yes, you DO sound stronger! Hang in there, I know this all has not been easy on you. You can do it!

Hi, Terri,

I haven't responded to you in quite awhile. I've been off GQ boards, mostly. I hang out on D/D, since that's where I "belong." <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I did see a few things in your posts here that I wanted to respond too, tho.

First of all I think I would have been livid if H were acting like YOURS, and then called and said, he'd be "home by 8 with D...." WTF?!?!?! THIS IS NO LONGER HIS HOME!!!
GRRRRRRRRRR. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

OK, calmer now.....I don't think there's any such thing as "too late" to do Plan A, or Plan B. I think they are effective eventually, AND, never, NEVER forget they are for YOU! Plan A is to make the changes in YOU that were your shortcomings in the M, and Plan B is for YOUR "peace, and preserving any remaining love for H left."

WHEN you are ready to quit being on the rollercoaster, you will know to go to Plan B. I hear it in your posts that you are pretty much THROUGH now with his goofiness (calling it that for lack of a better term!)

You're doing great, and YOU"LL BE FINE!!! You are a strong and intelligent woman.

God Bless.