Gave H letter from lawyer...also found out that he has been calling OW from payphone

Well what a terrible day. I have hardly seen my H this week because of his work schedule so this morning seeing I am off from work we had more time to see each other. I gave him the letter from his lawyer that states the OW is not to call or come to our house and that he needs to fill out his net worth statement ASAP. I explained to him that it hurt me knowing she was calling and coming to the house and that is why I told my lawyer about it.Well he said he still "wanted to get it over with". I tried to remain calm but I lost it. I cried and told him that I knew he was still in contact with her.My suspisions were right he has been using the payphone over in town to call her. I have someone who has seen him over there and there IS NO other reason he would be using the payphone there. It goes along with all the change I found in his truck. I guess so much for telling her it is over like he said a couple weeks ago. Why doesn't he just admit that it is still going on. I know and the lying just makes it worse. I would think she would also get tired of the secretiveness that they think they are using. Please give me a break I wasn't born yesterday.Everyone in the whole town knows what is going on, he has been seen all over in public with her so why now keep lying. Maybe I could deal with it better if he admitted it. I just feel the awful urge to call her up and ask her just what she expects to get. I could call saying it was to tell her that she isn't to come to my house anymore and I can have her removed if she does. What should I do?????? I told my H I was very close to moving out of this small little town to somewhere that no one knew me or what was going on. I am being ridiculed by her and her family and I have done NOTHING wrong. Where are these peoples morals. They have none. To put the icing on the cake my H asked me to go and get his mother a hanging basket for mothers day. Why didn't he ask the OW if she could pick it up for him.

Hi bc,Remember....DETACH YOURSELF!!!While still in denial, an alcoholic will lie a lot. Your H most likely believes his own lies!You shouldn't be concerned with if your H is calling OW from payphone or not. You already know the truth. No need expecting the truth out of him.As far as the Mother's Day present goes. I would just buy it, but on the card....put that it is from YOU ONLY.You are enabling your H's behavior by doing things for him. Let him start doing whatever it is, himself. How will he ever realize that someday you might not ever be around if you keep doing things for him???DETACH YOURSELF.....DO THINGS ONLY FOR YOURSELF....TAKE CARE OF YOU!

NoTrust,Do alcoholics even when they haven't been drinking not see the real world. I guess are they still in a fantasy and denial even when they are sober. H wasn't drinking this morning and hadn't been because he was at work. I know what they say about detachment but it is extremely hard when I find out all these things are still going on and he just flat out denies everything. Maybe I don't understand because I find it so hard to believe that a person could actually continue to lie when they know what the truth is. Does this make any sense?He does know now that I am going to Alanon meetings. I don't know if this is good or bad. I told him I am going to them for myself not him. I don't think I will even buy a present for MIL. He can do it if he wants. My inlaws know he has a drinking problem but recently they have seemed cold towards me. I am not sure if he has told them something about things that isn't true or what. They are kind people and I doubt that him playing around on the side would sit to well with them but he is their son and the baby too boot.He also had the nerve to ask me what to do about the net worth statement. I told him I wouldn't discuss it. Does he want me to do everything. I guess so. Maybe then he wouldn't feel any guilt or be to blame for the divorce. The other thing I find hard to handle is that many people on this sight say that after discovery their WS wanted to work on things or they moved out. My H didn't move out to be with OW but hasn't wanted to work on things either. Am I the only weird case or what?

bc,I have to agree with you. I found out the truth from my H after suspecting things for months. This happened last weekend. I made him move out. The relief I have in knowing all of the truth is immeasurable. I feel like I no longer have to check his phone bills, look for reciepts, check his pockets, all of those things we do BECAUSE WE HAVE TO.Because we know.The lying is the worst part of it which surprises me. The thoughts of what they did together does not torture me as much as the effort my H put into making plans to see her. It does not torture me as much as him looking me straight in the eye a dozen times and telling me he has been true to me.Thank God I know the truth.As far as rebuilding...who knows. I just know this...I will never again look for another bill, reciept, or any other proof. I will have to know 100% that that will not be part of my life again for me to have peace.It's horrible what he's doing to you. There is no way to make them tell until they're ready. I actually waited until my H had a few drinks before I confronted him, knowing he would be weaker in that state. I'm not sure he would have told me if he was sober. I simply told him what I found...and I said to him..."Now is the time...you are going to sit here and tell me everything".I'm ranting. I'm sorry. It's just so hard, all of it.

Hi bc,My therapist said that even if the alcoholic is not drinking...they are still "dry-drunks." They haven't had enough time to even sober up! So, that means that your H (even if he isn't drinking at the moment), is STILL NOT thinking with a clear head. It is still clouded and fogged up with alcohol (even if he isn't literally drinking it at the time).I think that your H wants you to do the footwork so that he doesn't have to feel responsible for the divorce. He thinks that if you do divorce him, then he doesn't really have to say that he left you (even though he did long ago when he took on this OW). I hope you understand what I mean by that. If you don't, I'll try to explain it better.It is so extremely hard to detach ourselves from someone that we love very much, but remember, that their bad behavior, can mentally cripple us too. It isn't healthy. That's why I say, "detach yourself." It is for your own well-being and it will prevent you from going crazy from all of this mess.You don't deserve to live a life like this. You know that. You are doing a fine job so far. Just keep it up. Go to Alanon meetings, get support here, go out with friends & family, do things for yourself.Oh yeah...the answer to your last question where you asked why H won't move in with OW?? Well, he's getting some of his needs met with this OW, and then with you, he gets other needs (such as financial, keeping up the house & responsibilities, etc.).....he can come and go as he pleases. Why should he give up something like that? He can have his cake and eat it too.That's why he doesn't move in with her. If he does...then all his needs WON'T be met.If you continue to enable him, that is enabling him to treat you like a doormat and have his cake & eat it too.That's why you have to detach yourself.... Hope I helped!

bc, Yes, it is a GOOD thing that your h knows you are going to Alaon meetings. Keep going. Go as often as you can. You do not need to discuss it with him, just quitely let him know you are off to an Alaon meeting and you will be back at x time. Do get a plant for your MIL. Sign how you would like, with love from you, with love from bc & h, which ever feels the best to you. You will get stronger and stronger as you continue to go to Alaon meetings. Focus on your health and peace. Do not expect anything from your h, as you know you will not receive the truth at this time. When the time is right, ask your h to go with you to Alaon. Discuss this with them. I am sure they will give you proper guidance. Try not to focus on the ow or the pay phone calls. It only causes you grief. Think before you start thinking about the situation - Is this going to help me improve my health and well being, and give me peace of mind, or will this line of thinking only zap my energy and make me unhappy when I find out x. Don't do this to yourself. You are making headway. Keep going. Many people are praying for you and your family. Victoria

i just want to tell you, they don't have to be drunks to LIE LIE LIE. my H KNOWS i know all the lies he told me, and he STILL won't admit them. it is utterly ridiculous. you just have to let it go, and it is hard to do, and it takes awhile, but when you do it will make you feel so much better. i don't even check the mail anymore, b/c i know i will find a phone bill or suspicious charge, and fly off the handle at him. i just can't stand the pain anymore. hugs, julie

bc,Alanon is for YOU....hopefully, if your H is ever ready, then AA would be for him....Keep going. I can already tell from your Posts that Alanon is helping.

I thought I was doing better by going to Alanon. But everytime I feel better my H takes the air out of the balloon. He should have been home from work over three hours ago and hasn't gotten here yet. NO doubt had to go and see the OW. I am so angry right now I could scream. I did throw some of his clothes out on the front door step. I know I can't control his behavior but I am about to bust.

Good morning bc,YOU ARE getting better. Alanon is helping you. Remember, it won't happen overnight...babysteps.I remember getting so pissed off, that I went to my H's closet, threw all of his clothes out the door. I didn't know of Alanon yet.You have to detach yourself or your are going to lose ALL love for your H.It sounds like he is getting worse and doesn't even care anymore.Just detach yourself and let him fall on his own.

NoTrust,I am trying to detach myself. He got home this morning and I asked him where he had been and of course he said he was at work. Unfortunately I let him push my buttons and I got angry and started to cry. He said he was going to fill out his net worth statement tomorrow so we can get it over with. He just seems so cold and uncaring at times like a person I never knew. I hate him and the OW for what they have done and the hurt that it has caused me.Hopefully I get through the day and tomorrrow night back to Alanon and maybe that will help me through. I just feeled very used right now. From him asking me to get his mother a plant to me doing all the bills etc. And again today he is off to the races and out tonight afterwards and I am sure the OW will be there.

hello! I have been lurking here for a couple of months and have found this to be a wonderful site to gather experience, strength and hope. It is true that we seldom ever know whom we may have an impact on in any given day. Thank-you for giving so freely. I have been reading posts from those whom are married to alcoholics(as I am too) and felt the need to share some of my experience... First, let me say that I have read and believe in MB concepts....I truly believe that God lead me here to help heal. My husband and I have been in recovery for a little over 2 1/2 years.(Me in Al-Anon and him in AA) Again, for me Al-Anon has been the path for mefor self-discovery and learning how to grow along spiritual lines....so many of you appear to have it from varying sources. Al-Anon has been mine. Within the first 30 days of my husbands sobriety my husband confessed to a 3 month affair 5 years previously. I had suspected and confronted on many times...today I believe it was a direct result of his alcoholisim. They met once a week to get drunk and high and her house with her three children outside the bedroom door. She too is and was married and is most likely an alcoholic/addict. He would sneak in and go hide in the bedroom...sick! Anyway they could meet once a week because he was supposed to be in evening college class...which he dropped and failed to communicate to me...she was a co-worker and friend and she had confided in my husband about an affair she had just had...consequently, has had several others. My husband broke it off because of fear of getting caught...mind you he did not use protection with either of us and during this three month affair...I became pregnant..much to his desire...so basically he was leading a double life of lies. i actually miscarried that pregnancy and I believe it was that point that he committed to our marriage and building a stronger one. (Yet fear kept him from telling me the truth...he though he'd take this secret to the grave) When he first told me i was relieved to finally know the truth and discover that I was "right" and not crazy... because that is what lies do....cause confusion...Of course i did play a part in all of this too...but upon discovery i was just beginning a program of recovery...as was he and the focus was on me to learn more about who i was/am....I truly believe that I forgave him and understood it was a result of his disease and made a choice that our life in the 5 years after the affair was basis enough to let this go...and i did ...until 12 of 99. my husband and I attend a weekly meeting on traditions based from AA with other couples in recovery....have been for over 2 years. But when i was 4 months pregnant, insecurities, resentment surfaced about the affair...While i still believe that I had forgiven...I had not dealt with some of the feelings....thus, I discovered this site and did an inventory on my marriage and discovered my basic fear was of abondenment...At the time of discovery 10/97 my husband said he would answer any and all questions i had and was willing to do anything to regain trust....he was blind-sided when all of this resurfaced 12-99. Today i believe that we are stronger and more importantly more mature in our relationship...we are growing individually and together. WE have gained new tools on how to have a healthy marriage...( And most of the time we pick them up and use them...lol) I truly did not mean to ramble about mysituation....I guess I wanted to let you know I "qualify" to be on this site and have some experience with alcoholism.... What I really wanted to address is that for me, I found hope in the rooms of al-anon in discovering who i was and how alcoholism has affected me. I urge you to keep going back...the 12 steps and traditions can be applied to any addiction... They say alcoholics are in a state of arrested adolescence.....I believe that there disease hinders them from maturing...and the become spiritually, physically, and emotionally ill. So while your husband may be making choices while not actively drunk...his mind is indeed fogged. In al-anon I learned, that I did not cause the alcoholism, can not cure the alcoholic, nor could i control the alcoholic or alcoholism. Although I do have choices to how I contribute to the situation....I can either be part of the problem or part of the solution. today, I try to stay in the solution...again it as a process, a journey...not a destination. Something important that i learned in al-anon is that people do not do things to me...they do them for themselves....In other words, your husbands choices are not a relection of you, rather a relection of himself....Alcoholics are indeed ill...while there is no cure there is help, should he decide to reach out for it...Until that time remember that you are enough, have enough and do enough....oh and one more thing...on the lighter side...Alcoholics have 3 c's too....con them, confuse them, and conquer them..... please seek help from others whom have been there...in Al-anon....this site and it's spiritual principles is a great place too....Most of all....be good to yourself... 459(from the Big book of AA) ACCEPTANCE

459, Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience with bc. bc, you are making headway, and I will pray for you and those that reach out to you. Victoria

Thanks for the sharing with me. It took me months to actually go to an Alanon meeting. I kept telling myself that my H's problem wasn't that bad. But he fit many of the signs of alcohol abuse if not alcoholism. It is just very hard for me to think of him in terms of being ill and that his mind is fogged when I can see so clearly what he is doing to himself and our marriage. I know that I am not perfect and my actions and reactions have caused us problems.Maybe hearing it from so many that have been down that road that what he continues to do and say is being caused by the alcohol. It does seem that most of what the OW and him do together is somehow related to drinking if not when they first see each other but by the end of the night. Last weekend he left for two days said he needed to get away and was definately drunk when he finally called home only to say he wouldn't be coming home. I am wondering if the OW could also be an alcoholic. She seems to do all the right things for my H make him laugh interesting talks etc but always or at least I think with alcohol playing a part. If he was on a binge for two days last weekend he ran to her for comfort. If I was her I sure would be wondering what the future holds for such a destructive relationship. They are destroying both of their marriages not to mention she has two children that seem to take a back seat to everything.Is it wrong for me to hate her? I know that my H is to blame too but I feel such anger and resentment towards her because she doesn't have the morals that I was brought up with. I could never even imagine chasing after or being with a married man not just now that I feel the pain but before this all happened.I hope and pray for my H to come to terms with his problems and see the OW for who she truly is. I only fear this won't happen before there is no more us. My H has gone to the races and in the past this was what we always did together but because the OW is also involved I can't bring myself to go for fear of more humiliation. Last week, the OW and her family ridiculed me in public and it was very cruel and I felt horrible for what they did and said. Imagine me the wife not being able to feel that I could be with my H in public that the OW has more rights than I do. It may have been a LB but I told my H that they were cruel in their behavior towards me. You know what he said, He told me that I know I am a good person and I shouldn't even listen to what they say. Does this mean he realizes what they were doing was wrong and in his own way feels bad for what happened.Thank you so much for the help in my time of need. No one is able to understand what I am going through without having been there themselves.

459: Thanks for sharing your story with us. I hadn't dealt with alcoholism until I married my H and got to know his family. My family doesn't drink so I didn't understand the addiction. I learned that alcoholism is an illness, although at first, I didn't see it that way.My H told me that he would drink first, to get himself to go over to the OW's house. The OW also drank and accepted his addiction. I guess that they supported each other in their bad behaviors. She is a barfly and he met her at the bar that he used to frequent.bc, I wonder if your OW might be related to the former OW in our situation. This OW has 2 kids also and is married. She has a cousin who is a OW and even got pregnant from MM. Immorality must run in that family!bc, you know that you are a good person. Don't let the OW and your H's despicable behavior undermine your self-worth. You will get through this...

NoTrust,Maybe all the OW are related somehow. At least with the morals and beliefs that are brought up with. She is also a barfly and pit lizard.(a name for the women that hang around the race track in the pits looking for men) This is how my H got involved with her. He races and she goes to the races and they both went to the same bar afterwards. I hadn't been going and never really liked to hang out at the bar till closing time anyway so I guess they got talking, playing pool etc and you know the rest. Her marriage was bad and then she got him believing his was bad too and presto an affair. I was thinking of going to the races today but wasn't really in the frame of mind to deal with things. It should be her weekend to work so she shouldn't be there. I don't want to be ridiculed by her family either. Tells you what they are all like. I just hope that some day I have it out with her once and for all and then I can put things behind me. She is just so smug like I shouldn't be there with my H and she has the RIGHT to because she is the OW. I would think my H would be embarrassed knowing what is going on and we are both there. Makes him look like an a** too.

Oops! I made a typo....i want my name to be 449.....not 459! Anyone know how to change user name???

bc... {{{{{{{{{bc}}}}}}}}} hugs for you my friend. Big hugs for you.I wish I had some advice for you and I wish I could have been here over the weekend to offer some support - I usually try not to get on the computer on the weekends...I'm so proud of you for staying with Al Anon. Even though H bursts your bubble after your feel good emtions from a meeting presently, it'll get to the point where your bubble will be so strong, that no matter what he does, it won't burst. That's when you'll realize what a strong person you are underneath all this pain, anger, and frustration.I hope you didn't get the plant for you MIL. I wouldn't of. As No Trust says, DETACH, DETACH, DETACH!!! It's the only way you'll get through this.My thoughts are with you, bc. I wish I had some answers for you. --purplemag

Purplemag,No I didn't get the plant for my MIL. I did however call her and wish her a happy mothers day. I stayed home and didn't go to the races either. My H finally made it home at 1am this morning, drunk and exhausted. He is working 6pm-4am and worked till 7am Sunday morning and didn't sleep at all.I found him in the side yard with his truck running asleep. I wonder if he will think about how the truck got where it did. Alanon again tonight. I also met with my counselor today. She is a new one and this is the second session but I really like her and she has some good ideas and thoughts.Thanks again for the support. I will be wondering if my H will fill out his net worth statement now or not.

Hi bc,It's scary that your H is driving drunk....really scary.Did you go to Alanon this evening? If you did, how was your meeting?

Hi BC -I am following along.....Tell us about your meeting tonight and also about your counselor and her thoughts and ideas.BIG HUGS, Sheba

Well I have given up.....My H has lied to me for the last time. I will not be treated like a doormat any longer. He is suppose to be working 6pm-4am. Well he didn't come home this morning and I know that the guy he is working with was home because I drove by his house. The only explanation is that he is with the OW. I have had it. I feel like I am ready to explode. It is pretty cruel that he goes at 4am in the morning to her house to sleep there until whenever. I left a note at our house for him to call me as soon as he gets home that it was very important. It is now almost 9am and no call and no answer. How can he be so cruel. If she is what he wants and seems to need so bad he can leave. I am not putting up with him having both of us and all the things that go with it.

Hi bc....More big hugs coming your way. Did you get to Al Anon last night? For your own sanity, I think I would start implementing Plan B. What love you have for him left, should be protected.You've been trying so hard. I can't imagine the turmoil you're in. I think if that's where he is, at the OW, then he should get a taste of reality of what it would be like with her. You've been doing everything by yourself for so long now...My heart aches for you, it really does. I don't know what else you can do. If I were you, I'd definitely tell him, it's time to go. I know in your heart it's not the thing you wanted, but I think right now it's what you need. To preserve yourself.Keep going to Al Anon whatever may happen. It's support that you need, and will be good for you.Hang in there bc. We're here for you, every step of the way, no matter what you decide.--purplemag

purplemagYes I did go to Alanon last night and it again made me feel better knowing I was not alone and that others had been down the same road. But then this morning when he didn't come home and most certainly is at the OW I am ready to lose it.I called my lawyer to see what I could do but he of course is out till Friday. I want to tell my H if he needs her so bad then move in with her and leave me alone.

bc, I am seeing your strenght develop. Alaon is proving to be an asset to you. Keep up going as much as you can. I know I have suggested in the past that you call Steve H. I know it is $85, but it is worth it at this point. I do agree that Plan B is something you should discuss with him. In the past you had financial concerns, but Plan B can be done with any impact on your bills if your h has a place to go. I would really like to see you discuss this with Steve. Don't ask your lawyer, as then you will get into discussion of money, splitting assets etc. Continue as you like with your lawyer, but you can do Plan B without figuring all that out right now. bc, I am so proud of you for going to Alaon. You can see and hear the difference in your attitude. It is helping you, which in the long run will help your family. You ARE doing the right thing. Keep up the good work. Call steve if you can. victoria

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{bc}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} I understand exactly how you are feeling. I was in your shoes a year ago from right now. My heart just breaks for you bc. I had to quit reading your posts, they upset me so much and made me cry, because so much of what you are experiencing is exactly what my H was doing a year ago. I don't want to relive that pain. I appreciate 459's experience and wisdom, please listen to her. I thank her for sharing her experience with us and hope that what she went through will be of benefit to you too. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>They say alcoholics are in a state of arrested adolescence.....I believe that there disease hinders them from maturing...and the become spiritually, physically, and emotionally ill.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I wholeheartedly agree. My husband has been an alcoholic for over 20 years. His health is being affected. My focus over the last year has been praying for his salvation, because I don't want him to die and go to hell for eternity. "Nor thieves, or covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the Kingdom of God" I Corinthians 6:10.I have to say I agree with the others. Detach yourself completely from him, bc, stay in Al-Anon, do Plan B; above all though pray for him. You are a precious, warm, loving human being and deserve to be loved and cared for. Stay strong bc. God will carry you through.