wasstubborn said the other thread was getting too long for her to load. <P>Here is a new one that we can keep up the encouagement!

Dear Wasstuborn,Please print this and post it on your fridge!!!! Yes you are Dear!!!<P>you are authentic,<BR>you are brave,<BR>you are caring,<BR>you are dear,<BR>you are earnest,<BR>you are fair,<BR>you are Godly,<BR>you are honorable,<BR>you are incredible,<BR>you are just,<BR>you are kind,<BR>you are loving,<BR>you are merciful,<BR>you are nice,<BR>you are open,<BR>you are patient,<BR>you are quieting,<BR>you are regal,<BR>you are special,<BR>you are tender,<BR>you are unselfish,<BR>you are valiant,<BR>you are wise,<BR>you are X-tra ordinary!<BR>you are zealous............<BR>Wassi, you are someone very special, God made you to be someone very specia!!

FHL<BR>You are too sweet. <P>Lor<BR>I will respond to you on this thread. We were posting at the same time on the other and just as I finished reading your post I got called away.<BR>Your words mean more to me than you could ever know. As I have read your posts over the last few months I am so impressed by the wisdom you have. I think I've told you that before. <P>Right now I think you know how I feel. You are right...I can't decide anything right now.<P>A question for you and peppermint and anyone else who has been through this:<BR>How do you ever start believing anything again?<BR>I believe nothing. I can't imagine ever trusting anything or anyone again. I have been trying for so long to find a way back to trust. Back to square one after two years? I don't think I have it in me. <P>lizam<BR>We were posting together too.<BR>I will print it. I will read it...I will try to believe it. You are so good.<BR>You know what this feels like at the moment. Zero self-esteem.<p>[This message has been edited by wasstubborn (edited October 19, 2000).]

Excuse me....yah you...wasstubborn...go look in the mirror.<P>OK, you might look a little weary, but look into your own eyes.<P>Sure you have choices to make, but that bit about not having it IN you?<P>You are one of the most strong spirited people I know. You may not want to and you may choose not to, or you may choose to wait and see, but YOU GOT WHATEVER YOU NEED, IN YOU.<P>I guarantee it!!!! Chin up and put those shoulders back!!

FHL<BR> <BR>I will try

wasstubborn:<P>Trust is something so special, and from what I have read you have given your trust to your husband and to have it thrown back in face with lies and dishonesty is a horrible thing.<P>I completely understand the value you have put on trust. I know now there is no such thing a blind trust. Trust is something earned and should be cherished. <P>IMHO I feel you will trust again, but with a lot of time you do have it in you. I am learning to trust myself again and my instincts as well. Everyday when my husband walks out the door for work, I give him trust even though he is still earning it. I can’t control what he does and I really don’t care too. <P>Your husband must prove and earn your trust, that is something you can’t do for him. <P>I am so sorry you have been dealt with blow. My prayers are with you. Remember now is the time for you and to take of yourself. Pamper yourself some it does good for me.<P>Best Wishes,<P>Judy<BR>

Hey Wassi,<P>I'm keeping you in my thoughts and prayers. And I'll try to give you a short but honest answer to your question about trust.<P>I haven't started believing in firestorm yet and don't know when or if I will. But I do have a strong belief in God and in myself. I believe that God will lead me and watch over me, and I believe that I will continue to live my life the right way no matter what firestorm does. If he honestly changes his behaviors and attitudes, in time I will be able to trust and believe in him again. If he does not do the necessary things I will continue to live my life the right way, but without firestorm in it.<P>Wassi, if you are a believer then pray for the guidance and strength you need. Search yourself and find the faith in yourself that you need to get through this. Don't feel guilty that you cannot have faith and trust in your husband because of what he has done. It is HIS job to EARN renewed trust and faith. You do not owe it to him.<P>I will let you know when or if I find trust for firestorm again, but it will be a long time coming (if it ever does). It will be a long time for you also.<P>Peppermint

When we began to reconcile this time, I just put trust on a backburner. Of course, I had so muddied the waters that Guard also had no trust in me.<P>I thought at one time I'd never trust again, at all. But each day takes a kind of trust--it's all trust. Will he love me, will he leave me, will he contact her, will he come home on time, and was he really at work anyway? You can't think on these questions and thrive.<P>I found the old "step by step, day by day" to be the key for me. So much so that when it came time to make plans for our future, I almost couldn't think in terms of days, weeks or months ahead.<P>Peppermint gives good advice. You can't trust your H at this point. I also put my trust in God.

Hi Wassi,<P>Everyone else has already said it. Just like Lor and Peperment I have no trust in Tony. <P>I guess I trust myself more and I am really trying hard to pray about everything. What I do is I just try and have him validate everything. Prove it so to speak. When I find he is telling the truth than I have trust in that one area. It is a continually growing process. <BR>

Hi Wassi,<P>I'm so sorry for what you went thru yesterday, guess the 17th of Oct was a bad day for a few of us.<P>How do you trust again???? Such a hard question, Hon. Well, I'd say that you learn to trust yourself first ... people are simply human, and I'm sure your H didn't want to lie to you, but he probably justified it in his mind that he was protecting you by not telling you any of this contact stuff that went on. It is all the way wrong and it's ultimately destructive to them as well, but they don't "see" it. They truly think lieing to us is a necessity, otherwise we'd be hurt all the time.<P>Trust your instincts Wassi, they were telling you something wasn't right, I've been there and ignored my gut feelings when I should have listened to that inner voice telling me something isn't quite right.<P>Your H needs to "EARN" your trust, it's not a given ... he's depleted all of the trust you gave him when you were first married (which was a gift), now he has to earn it back by telling you everything and being an open book. I mean, really, how in the h*ll do they think you can get close and enjoy real intimacy with them if their not trusted??? <P>I'm praying for you and H. I hope he does come here and I hope he signs on and posts. We can help him. Please keep encouraging him to come here.<P>Has he been in touh with Firestorm yet???? Hope he does do that.<P>Love,<BR>Jo

Wassi,<P>I second Peppermint's post. I have found it very difficult to trust anyone, it has not just been my h.<P>I trust myself much more than I did.<P>And I'm learning again to trust God.

I've been trying to reply for a while but the computer wouldn't let me.<BR>FHL<BR>Did you get mail?<BR>My H read your thread to him and said he wanted to reply. Not sure it will happen but he did appreciate it. <P>bighope<BR>I'm not sure if it is possible. I will try to take care of myself. My b-day is Sunday and I have made plans. <P>peppermint<BR>Thankyou. I think you have made more steps toward trust than you realize.<BR>Please tell firestorm that my H seems interested in talking to him. Like I said to FHL...I don't know if it will happen but at least he was receptive.<P>Lor<BR>You are right as usual. Step by step...day by day. <P>Paha<BR>You really do sound good you know. I know what you have been going through and I see a lot of progress within you.<P>Jo<BR>Thank you too. I'm really not sure that there is any way for him to earn my trust at this point. It has gone on far too long. Too many times.<P>schizzo<BR>You are absolutely right. I trust no one. It is very scary. I see my H's friends and wonder who knows what and who kept this secret. I am 99% positive that my H's business partner knows about these calls. The phone bills go to his house first. I have no respect for a person who knows what I have been through....sees that there is still contact and doesn't have the decency to let me know. I have played this game far to long. I know that the partner did not approve of the affair. Just an example of losing complete trust in the world.<P>You have all said one thing. I must trust myself. I knew that. Lost it somewhere in all of this. I must trust that I can handle what ever happens. I will work on that.<BR>Thank you all.<BR>

{{{{{{{{{{{{Wassi}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Oh, my dear, sweet cheerleader!! I am so sorry I wasn't there for you in your hour of need. All I can say is, !<P>Like all of your dear friends have already said, you ARE strong; you ARE amazing; you WILL make it through this!<P>You are probably tired of hearing this, but please, take care of yourself. Get some rest. Don't do anything you don't need to do right now. It's your time, now.<P>My thoughts and prayers are with you, dear one. Lean on the One that can help you the most. He is always there for you.<P>My e-mail is, cc7315@yahoo.com. Write whenever you want.<P>Comfort and prayer are coming your way.<P>God bless,<BR>Cheryl

I so want you to have a happy b-day.<P>How do you feel about asking your h to spoil you, asking for exactly what you want?<P>I wanted breakfast in bed, a book or cd as a present and dinner out w/out kids.<P>I got breakfast at IHOP (close), no present and dinner after I moved heaven and earth to get a sitter. I was still happy. He and the kids treated it as "my day".<P>Don't leave it to chance if he is clueless. Ask!!!!!

<B>Okay Wassi, I am checking in!</B><P>You haven't been online or posted in a while. I am going to continue to think possitive and believe one: you are resting and recharging that remarkable brain of yours, or two: you and hubby are doing some communicating? Either way, both are necessary.<P>I am thinking of you still a whole bunch. I know you know that.<P>I haven't gotten to the e-mail yet. Have a few things brewing in my brain. I think I had better watch out or I will be on an overload here. <P>I do still have such a good feeling about you. I really do. Things are going to be great for you. This is just the start of something bigger and better. There will probably still be a few pit falls, but in the long run it will be the start of wonderful.<P>You are going to heal...you are going to become not only whole again, but better than ever before.<P>I am looking forward to reading your next post and those of the lovely people here that are reaching out to you and loaning you their faith and hope for the moment. Not to mention their strength and possitive energy.<P>Okay, going to go to bed now. After I take a plunge in that hot tub. My muscles are still a mess. <P>I will be praying, and thinking of you. Pamper yourself. Indulge! Concentrate on you. The rest of the dominos will fall into place. I promise! <P>Now for the mongo mega <P><B>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{<BR>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{<BR>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{<BR>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{<BR>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{<BR>{{{{{WASSI}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<BR>}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<BR>}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<BR>}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<BR>}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<BR>}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}</B><P> <P>Love ya,<P>------------------<BR><B>God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! With God on our side we can't lose! What God has joined together let no man put asunder. <P>Samantha</B><P><p>[This message has been edited by A blessed Samantha (edited October 19, 2000).]

Hi kiddo. Since you asked, here is a link that will catch you up.<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum25/HTML/000734.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum25/HTML/000734.html</A> <P>I am a bit calmer than when I first spoke to her and then my h. told me about his last attempt to resume things. We have a counseling appointment next Friday. <P>I am still reeling from the realization that I could think things were going so well last Spring, yet he was trying to get back with her. <P>She told me last week that she only has feelings of anger toward him and that I don't need to worry...but she lied so much in our conversation, where are the lines between truth and falsehood?<P>pray for me, I will for you,<P>blessings,<BR>lizzie/pearl of great price <BR>

wasstubborn,<P>I don't know if you remember me... It has been quite a while since I posted as Dead Inside. I'd like to think of myself as "alive" now, but don't want to take the time to re-register right now. I haven't logged on in forever it seems. Tonight I was looking through some old papers (since this whole nightmare in my life started I have become a total scatterbrain) as I can't find some work I need. What I did find was some encouragement YOU had posted me back in June. Your words meant so much to me. So I logged on tonight hoping to find out about you and I am so sad by what I find. Wasn't it you that once said "Somewhere along the way I lost myself and I'll be darned if I know where to find me?" Amen sister! <P>What I do remember is that you were there for me when I endured my second D-day. I wish there was something I could say to you. Your H has a treasure in you and is foolish to not realize it. <P>I know what a blow to your self-esteem this is. But, my friend, this is NOT about you. I know that is hard to swallow. I struggle daily myself. I can well imagine the pain you feel wondering who knows what and why they didn't tell you. I feel the same. Remember this too is not about YOU. It's really not. It's sad for them that they did not have the moral compass in them to do the right thing. No reflection on you. I know that doesn't ease the pain. I wish I had something for you that would. <P>I know the horror of those cell phone bills. The tell-tale minutes and times. I hurt so much for you as this is something you do not deserve. The hope that I have is that there is Someone I can trust. That is God. He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. He has promised never to leave you and never to forsake you. Put your trust in Him. He deserves it. And He will not let you down. <P>It is my humble opinion that we do not have what it takes to heal ourselves. As for me, I really don't trust anyone completely at this point. I think it is foolish in many ways to even trust myself. What with all my emotions and insecurities tossing me to and fro. What I do know is that I can trust the Lord. This brings me peace in situations which are scary and uncertain (that would be basically my whole life). I just urge you to do the same. Read your Bible. Read about God's faithfulness. His strength. His love for you.<P>"Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves have received from God... We are under great pressure, far beyond our ability to endure, so that we despaired even of life. Indeed, in our hearts we felt the sentence of death. But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead. He has delivered us from such a deadly peril, and he will deliver us. On him we have set our hope that he will continue to deliver us..." 2 Corinthians 1:3-4, 8-10

Hi Wassi,<P>I hope things have calmed somewhat and that you are feeling at least a bit better. Obviously, things are not great for me either or I wouldn't be posting in the middle of the night like this!<P>We were actually supposed to leave last night for a long weekend away together, but I had a minor discovery of my own that pretty well ruined any ideas for a romantic weekend. I was cleaning out the trash bin of the email account and found some old emails that prove firestorm lied about the when recontact between he and the other woman actually began. In the overall scheme of things it is just a minor lie and possibly just a mistaken memory, but once you are in the grips of infidelity, there is really nothing that seems minor, harmless, or unimportant.<P>This whole thing led to some thinking about things with you and made me recall something you posted on the other thread. You wrote that this rediscovery for you was worse than the first time, but it was exactly opposite for me. In fact, the more I discover, the less it seems to hurt me. Instead, I just get angrier. Why do think that is?<P>I really do not think it is because I am just coming to accept the affair, because that is definitely not the kind of person I am. I don't even think it is because I am giving up, I haven't done that. It is true that I am losing respect for him more and more though, and that is one of the ingredients for love, so maybe I am losing love for him.<P>I suppose that makes it time for plan B if I want to preserve the love I have left for firestorm. But I choose not to do that. Instead I choose to try to continue with therapy and hold things together to let my daughter finish school this year with her family still together. I made that committment to myself and to her, though she doesn't know it.<P>I don't think plan B would work with firestorm anyway, he would think that it was all about him, roll around in self-pity, and move on to his next victim. We would absolutely be forced to spend a lot of time together because of our daughter's activities. Neither of us are willing to give up participating with her school and community activities, and we both believe that her senior year should be all about her happiness before she hits the "real world".<P><BR>I read somewhere last year that the level of pain infidelity causes relates directly to how much the betrayed spouse loves the betrayer. The more love there is, the more pain there is. If that is true, you still love your husband very much don't you?<P>I wish I could look into a betrayer's mind and read their thoughts, or look into their cold, black, selfish heart and see if anything is really there. None of this seems worth it!!! I have really come to believe that it is pure evil and the devil's work that makes this whole thing happen.<P>I also wish that I could find the magic answer that would save me and my family, as well as you and everyone else here from this devastation, but I can't. I can only offer my care and support, and honestly tell you that I KNOW EXACTLY HOW YOU FEEL AND WHAT YOU ARE GOING THROUGH. I wish I didn't, but I do.<P>But I also know that I am getting stronger personally everyday, and that each day gets a tiny bit easier to endure. I'm not seeing light at the end of this tunnel yet, but I still have faith that it is there. I am becoming more determined to take charge of my own life and to stop letting firestorm control my actions, thoughts, or feelings.<P>It is sort of like this- I believe that firestorm is a lost soul right now. He was going through life following the map that takes you in the right direction, but he decided to drop the map and head out on his own. Now he is wandering aimlessly, sometimes going in the right direction, but often taking the wrong road. Up until recently, I had been out looking for him, trying to take his hand and lead him to go the right way. Sometimes he will follow, but sometimes he resists and still wants to go off on his own. So I have decided to come home. I won't lock the door yet, and I'll even leave a light in the window to help him find his way. I'll pray for his safe return very soon. But I am coming home where I can be warm and safe and take care of myself. It is time for him to take the initiative and work his way home if he is going to return.<P>Wassi, maybe it is time for you to think about YOU. Just follow your heart and your instincts. Identify your own limits and your own needs and set about planning for them. You can leave your light on too, but that doesn't mean you have to stand outside in the cold and rain waiting for him to see it.<P>I am so sorry that anyone has to feel the way you and I are feeling right now, but there are many, many others right here with us. Unfortunately. We can make it, though. I am more thankful everyday that I found this site over a year ago. Wouldn't this whole mess be even worse without people here listening and caring about us? People that know EXACTLY what we are going through.<BR>People that we have never actually seen who really care about us and what happens in our lives.<P>I'll be checking often for an update from you, and I'll be hoping and praying for good news. But if it is not good news, I still want to hear from you and help if I can. Please let me.<P>Peppermint

Wassi,<P>I'm heading out for the weekend and just wanted to let you know you continue to be in my thoughts and prayers.<P>Hang in there.<P>Love ya,<P>Bill

"It is sort of like this- I believe that firestorm is a lost soul right now. He was going through life following the map that takes you in the right direction, but he decided to drop the map and head out on his own. Now he is wandering aimlessly, sometimes going in the right direction, but often taking the wrong road. Up until recently, I had been out looking for him, trying to take his hand and lead him to go the right way. Sometimes he will follow, but sometimes he resists and still wants to go off on his own. So I have decided to come home. I won't lock the door yet, and I'll even leave a light in the window to help him find his way. I'll pray for his safe return very soon. But I am coming home where I can be warm and safe and take care of myself. It is time for him to take the initiative and work his way home if he is going to return."<P>Wasstubborn, I have been following your post. I am keeping good thoughts only for you. <BR>These posts of encouragment are helping me as well, and I have read and re read the paragraph from Peppermint. <BR>I feel that trust will never be as easy as it was in the past, and wonder if it will ever BE again without all the suspicious questions coming to mind.<BR>Be strong and take care of yourself. L<BR>

Wanted to address peppermint's mention of the anger this time as I felt the same way.<P>Perhaps w/the first discovery, the betrayed goes through (and perhaps hovers) w/in the shock and denial phases longer before reaching the anger phase. I, mean, typically, our self-esteem is shred to pieces. The depression, the overwhelming emotions, etc. There is anger but it seems that the shock and denial phases last a bit longer.<P>Second time around, at least in my case, I breezed right through the shock and denial phase. The shock and denial the second time around was about as much as the initial anger the first time. (make sense?)<P>The GOOD part about this is that "healthy" anger helps one to be more productive. We can realize that the strategy must change and we must take different steps to protect ourselves and our children while maintaining our own dignity and values. <P>For me, it was actually empowering in that I finally accepted, not the affairs, but the vision of life w/o him. Hadn't done that after first discovery. Sure, I toyed w/the idea. But, I also accepted my responsiblity in the breakdown of the marriage and tried to work on my wrongs, all with the intent of staying together. After I had done all of the work and he STILL went and cheated again, I realized that much, if not most, of the problem lie within him and therefore, the immediate move into anger.<P>Acceptance was more immediate also. Again, not acceptance of affairs, but acceptance that there is only so much I, alone, can do. I must do for me and my children as he refuses to recognize his issues and therefore seek any help.<P>Just some food for thought,<BR>Englightened<P>

Wassi,<BR>I forgot to thank you for saying I've gained in wisdom. Any wisdom I have was hard earned through pain & many mistakes...so if I'm very wise, I've really screwed up to get there!<P>There was a period last Feb - Mar in the midst of our last separation, when I discovered my H writing an email to the OW (after no-contact for 4 months--their relationship was very much stop and start for the previous 18 months) when all feeling for him drained away. I called him numerous bad names and... MEANT THEM. No real desire to apologize either. <P>Now, I have apologized, months later with real regret & remorse. But at the time it felt like a straw bale flung onto an already broken camel's back.<P>Anyway, since my virulent and continuing anger didn't fit with the 18 month Plan A (sometimes done excellently, but with periods of crappiness) & Power of a Praying Woman I had been until the separation, I'm not sure if I posted much about it, I think I said my lovebank was drained, when what I could have said was that my heart had become stone-cold hard. I recall FHL saying to Guard something like I didn't seem like Lor and TNT saying she'd never seen me so stubborn (you both also have said a million other things that were wonderful and kept me on task & connected, I'm not complaining, I needed to know that my faltering was apparent.) <P>Guard would read my posts to other people & about us and ask why, if I knew the right thing to do--restore our marriage--why I wasn't moving in that direction?<P>I've described the way I felt as having had a floor sander run over every inch of my skin and through the center of my chest. I felt like my footprints were bloody. I could not bear the thought of one more betrayal...and he was out of the house by his own choice so I didn't have to kick him out, I just kept him out.<P>We all have those moments where we cry "enough". Some of us have many, many moments of deep, continuing betrayal over long periods of months & years, we're devastated with wounds that seem impossible to heal.<P>And...the thing was, no matter how I felt, or what I did to change myself into a better person, a better partner, it was up to Guard to make his half work.<P>Honestly, looking back these few months, with as settled, companionable & loving as we are now, I don't know how we got here. I don't know who Guard was from winter 98 to this spring. I don't know who I was from Jan to Aug this year.<P>I see so much as a flicker of his bad-brain expression and within me doors slam and lock. But in the process of mutual forgiveness and the MB 4 rules of successful marriage, Guard has the key to those locks.<P>Gosh, where am I going with this? I think in a way you never "get it back". But life is change and hopefully growth. Those 2 years of hell, if they had not been hell, they still would have passed in some way. And they wouldn't have been trouble-free. I am wiser. My husband is wiser. We know who we don't want to be--lovebustin', unfaithful fools. It's just making sure we don't re-build our marriage on top of the rubble, the rubble has to be cleared, and some of it is usable material. The crazy, young love from college...we don't want to get rid of that, or our love for our children & families, or our faith, or work ethic, the chemistry/attraction is still there. We know we don't live happily without each other--even when we found it difficult to live with each other. Those things go back into the re-built marriage. The bad behavior, lies, infidelity, disloyalty, abandonment do not.<P>For us, it has to become a new, optimal, covenant marriage, not a continuation of something that was not fully working and led to unfulfilled needs and bad choices.<P>Wassi, you've been at this longer than most of us. The reason you have been able to do that is where you find your strength.

Hello my friends<BR>Thank you for so much continued support. I still have no idea where I'm going but I have found some of that peace that Sir HA was talking about.<BR>The peace of knowing that I wasn't crazy...knowing that there is nothing more that I can do...acceptance of the fact that my H may always be a liar. I think the last one is important. For so long I hoped that he would get the concept of honesty. He had enough examples of how much more the lies hurt than any other thing. I guess he doesn't want to get it. Maybe it's a control thing, maybe it's stubborness, maybe it's because he would rather I not be right. Who knows. I am just learning to accept that I probably will never have honesty here.<P>ceecee<BR>Thank you for all your kindness, and for the addy. I will probably get to my e-mail when I have got myself together a bit. My pompoms are drooping. I've missed you.<P>schizzo<BR>My b-day is going to include only me. I've made plans to spend it on my own. I have no interest in sitting around here waiting for attention. Too much of my life has been spent like that. It is the big 40 after all. Time for my midlife crisis? <P>Samantha<BR>My forever optimist. <BR>I'm doing my best. Thank you for always being there.<P>liz<BR>I'm so sorry. I feel very much the same. I thought we were really getting somewhere. Now it has been turned iinto nothing but lies. After the first lie it becomes a landslide. every minute is a lie.<P>DI<BR>Of course I remember you. I'm so glad I helped in some way. I really did worry about you. I think of you often. Every time I describe the feeling inside of me, in fact.<BR>How are you?<BR>Thank you for posting. I remember well the problems you had with the phone bills. I still say I am the queen of them. Especially after this.<BR>Let us know how you are.<P>peppermint<BR>You are helping very much. My H e-mailed firestorm last night. I hope it got through. I don't know what he wrote but I do know it took a very long time to put his words down.<BR>I am so sorry that you have to keep finding these things. Honestly...I think that it is very likely that in the confusion and lies, they do not know what is true sometimes, when this happened..etc.<BR>I think the reason this time hurt so much more is because it is the fifth go around. I finally counted. Since the original d-day of the affair( that doesn't count the previous 7 years of lies and "friendship") I have been shocked like this 4 more times. It has been 16 months since the last discovery. I guess a part of me really wanted to believe that with time this really would get better. Now I am just toatally defeated. How do I start over from this when another 16 months has been totally nullified? I just don't see any place for hope. I know the affair was not resumed. But the lies never ended. how many times I have said to him "I don't want to wake up 6 years from now and find out you have been talking to her all along".<BR>So do we start this game again?<P>Bill<BR>You made me smile again. Have a good weekend and thank you!<P>LAD<BR>Thank you for thinking of me. The great part of this forum is that these posts can help many people. Hang in there <P>Enlightened<BR>I do remember the second time around. It was very much like you describe. This time there is just nothing. Nothing but pain. There is no fight, no anger...nothing in me but defeat. If I look past today...I ask myself how anything can get better. How will I ever be safe? Do I care?<BR>I don't know the answers.<P>Lor<BR>Once again thank you for the wisdom. <BR>When you talk about "getting it back" I try to remember what there is to get back. This has gone on so long that I have become this. I'm not sure there was anything before this and if there can ever be anything but this here. I don't want to be this anymore. I don't know if there is anything to rebuild and I know I haven't got anything to give. Not with this always being the end result.<P>Oops...I'm starting to get pessimistic. I'll shut up now.<BR>Loveya all.<BR>

Wassi,<P>I posted this reply on the other thread but I decided I would post it here also because the other one is way too long. Peppermint is right about one thing. I threw down the road map of life and thought I could find my own way. Now I am waiting for someone to show me where it is. There is the problem. It is my responsibility to find it.<P>I got the e-mail from your H this morning. It was nice to hear from him but I am so sad for the reasons we all are here. Our situations do sound so familiar it is unreal. My reply back was rather long, but I hope that I have helped in some way. I really think he is a good man inside and maybe he sees that it is time for it to come out. I really believe he has an incredible wife, and yes, he sees that also. It is going to be very hard for him to admit that he was weak and had many shortcomings. I think he has that strength in him to do so. He does have someone here, in me, that is going through the same thing.<P>I wish you guys the very best in life and let him know that I will be here if he needs to talk to me or ask any questions. I am not an expert on marriage by any means, but I do understand him and where he is coming from. <P>My prayers and warmest regards to you both<BR>.............fs<P><p>[This message has been edited by firestorm (edited October 20, 2000).]

firestorm<BR>Thank you. My H will be gone most of today so won't get your e-mail till late tonight. Thank you for caring and wanting to help. Like I said...I have no idea what was in his E to you but I do think that you are the first person he has actually talked to about this. He has talked to his friends but they don't give advice.<P>I have to tell you...I don't have much hope of fixing this right now. I don't believe that my H will really do anything to compensate for this, to stop this. I don't believe that he will ever understand the concept of honesty. With me or himself. I don't believe in anything at this moment.<P>I do thank you though. I'm glad he finally has someone to talk to. It seems that everything I have said in the last two years was in the wrong language. Sorry...bitterness coming out just a little. Didn't mean it to.

Just checking on you....<P>Stay strong, ok. This could turn out to be just what you both needed to finally put this mess to bed.<P>Love you.<P>Lori

Wassi,<P>I really do understand your H. Slowly but surely I am begining to understand the pain that you, peppermint, and all of the betrayed are going through. I honestly don't think I could handle it like you and peppermint are doing. Hang in there, I think we all can do this together.<P>......fs<p>[This message has been edited by firestorm (edited October 20, 2000).]

Lori<BR>I really am okay. Thanks for caring.<P>firestorm<BR>Thanks for the pep talk...for trying to give me some hope.<BR>My money is on you and peppermint because I think you really want to DO something.

Wassi,<P>My money is on you because I thought you guys could. Now I know you can.<P>....fs

Wassi, hon I amheading out the door to go to my Uncles funeral and won't be home untill later tonight . But I wanted you to know I'm thinking of you. <P>Firestorm, you are doing a wonderful thing.<BR>God bless you for trying to help Wassi and her h.<BR>

afternoon wassi,<BR>I am glad to read that you are feeling much more positive about yourself. <BR>I vote for the detach method at this point. Your focus moves from the marriage to the family and to yourself. <BR>Maybe he can see the value of truth sometime, but it is not your job to show him. YOu have been trying to get him to see the value of truth, honesty, love, for a long time. Not sure what will get him to see it, but it is not your responsibility to show him anymore. <BR>Some may think I am being very hard/cold here, and I am!!! I know you took on the job to help him change, show him the right way, and the disappointment is SO great. I am not at all sure it is wise to set ourselves up for further disappointment from our spouses.<BR>There is a point where we have to protect what we have left of our minds! cl

firestorm<BR>You are doing a wonderful thing. I am not very optimistic at this point but I reaaly do thank you.<P>Deb<BR>Take care and don't worry about me. I have a lot of things to straighten out in my head.<P>cl<BR>You wrote pretty much what I've been thinking. Thanks for the reinforcement.<P>Time to disappear for a while I think.