Hello My friends<BR>I know I have been gone for a long time. I have been hoping to post an update. Instead I am posting some new info that I need some feedback on.<P>For those who don't know my sordid story..I'll try to give a brief history.<P>My H met his bimbo in 1992. I objected to the "friendship" immediately but it continued. In'93 the bimbo moved about 150 miles away so I felt safer at first. <BR>Once the long distance phone bills started coming in it was obvious that the friendship continued.<BR>In'96 the phonecalls disappeared. You may all smack me with the 2X4 for the idiot I was. Stupid wassi failed to check the bills for his new cell phone. <BR>Dec. '98 D-day of the 2 month old PA<BR>March '99...intense PA "ended"<BR>Since then..repeated discoveries of minimal contact.<BR>(Pretty brief for so many years)<P>Now for the new discovery. I discovered a new phone # where he contacted her. Can't go into that now. This # was not long distance. It seems that the "friendship" was much bigger than I knew. The phone calls that I thought were occuring once or twice a month were more like once or twice a week. I have no idea how many really. The only calls I know of are from his cell phone. He could have called her every day from our home.<P>This went on during the two years that I thought there was nothing. I'm feeling very very stupid, violated, ...you know the ropes.<BR>He was never honest with me about this. <P>For the last two years he has been calling it "just a friendship" and minimizing it to extremes. I have no idea how often they saw each other. According to them...there was nothing wrong with it because she had several serious boyfriend during this time.<BR>I am not going there as I will get bitter.<P>In one way....this explains to me why "no-contact" was so difficult. <P>On the other hand....I am completely disoriented. Who is this man? Has he any conscience? Can I ever be safe? Why the h*&l am I here?<BR>The answer to the last one is the kids. I know beyond a doubt that I would not be here if it weren't for them.<P>This discovery is old news. But he should have told me the truth. He has proven once again that he has no concept of .....much. (I was going to say Honesty but it goes way beyond that). I guess in his mind he probably minimized it all since they were "just friends" <P>Sorry for the length of this. I needed a good vent and you all are the only ones I can talk to now.<BR>I know there are no answers. Please don't scold me for snooping...it's the only way I can get any concept of what has really happened in my life. I need some little bit of reality. The only reality I know is what I find.

Oh dear wassi...<P>You're going to think this is weird, but today I was thinking of posting a message to you to check & see how you are doing.<P>I'm so sorry about what is going on. I thought that you were doing okay. Sounds like the affair really never ended. What are you going to do?<P>((((Wassi))))

I am certainly not one that would scold you for snooping...I've done enough of it myself, and like you, that was the only way I had any knowledge of reality concerning my wife.<P>Switch the gender in your "who is this man" and "has he any conscience", and were talking about my wife. It is all mind boggling.<P>I don't have any startling thoughts, unfortunately...I'm just sorry you are going through this. I'm in a venting mood tonight.<P>Take care of yourself.

Wassi -<BR>AARRGGHH - when will it go away!!<P>Just to get a perspective on this - partially cuz I don't know your story and timelines & partially cuz I can't quite figure out what your are saying.<P>This "Thing" (this deceit, withholding info, distorting the truth) you are talking about with the extra phoning stuff, please answer if:<P>- was this something that happened during the time of the A - during the time he was having to lie and cover his tracks continually?<P>- is this something that has been happening since you have been "rebuilding" with your believing there is no contact?<P>I just kind of need this clarified before I can respond with what is on my mind.<P>So basically the question is: Is this a brand new betrayal OR is it part of the "original" sin (good phrase that just popped in my mind wouldn't you say!).<P>I'll watch for your replay - I've just kind of got some thoughts.<P>Sudz

Survivor<BR>I still want to call you "NoTrust" even though I know you are beyond that. <P>I'm okay...furious for the first time in all of this I think.<BR>This discovery is from 96-98 so it is old. Problem is that I would have done things a LOT differently if I had the luxury of the truth.<BR>What will I do? Too early. I have made a committment to myself to stay in this house undtil my son has at least got settled in college (fall).<BR>My H has been wonderful.....but he is relationship retarded.<BR>Right now...I am just feeling very stupid, disoriented, humiliated.....<P>Rick<BR>Isn't it soooooo sad that we have the opportunity to understand this stuff?<BR>I have been living this so long I feel as though I have a PhD in infidelity and that SUCKS!!!!!!<P>Sudz<BR>If I wrote a book I might be able to answer it properly. As I told Survivor...the new discovery is from the "friendship" Which I considered an EA from day 1. The "friendship" was exclusive of me TOTALLY. I will try to look back some old posts for you. I came here in April '99. <BR>As far as since the affair....I posted in late Oct. that I had discovered contact...after over a year of believing there was none.<BR>Trust me.....I don't think there is a H as Morally stunted as mine.

Hello wasstubborn!<P>I have been wondering how you are! As to scolding you for snooping, get serious. If I told you some of the things I have done to snoop, you wouldn't believe it.<P>Three months ago, I had a very similar experience. I was going through all the email accounts, deleting old stuff. Suddenly I came upon some old emails that had been deleted. There was nothing really upsetting in them, just some jokes that firestorm had forwarded to some friends, including the OW (with a short note, nothing that would have made me suspicious if I didn't know about the affair). But the DATE showed that he had lied about the length of time they had been contacting each other after he promised me he would not communicate with her in any way without telling me. ANOTHER LIE! It was like dday all over again. My point is that I know exactly how you feel. I don't have any advice, just empathy for your situation.<P>Firestorm and I are doing well. Last night he went to a local basketball game while I stayed home to catch up on some work. As he was standing in a long line waiting to buy his ticket, guess who came strolling up to join the line? Yep, the OW. Firestorm left the line, got in his truck, and came straight home. When he walked in I made a joke about the "quick game", and he told me why he decided not to go into the game. That is the first time he has done anything like that. I guess he has finally realized that it pays to be open and honest!<P>I wish things were going better for you, please keep in touch.<P>Peppermint

Hey peppermint <BR>It makes me so happy to hear that firestorm has made so many changes. <BR>I can't begin to explain right now the implications and lies involved in my discovery. Lies as recent as two days ago. <P>Now I am off to a hockey game (poor referee is about to get the brunt of this) so don't worry if I don't come back tonight. I am okay...just a little numb....feeling like I should post at "Just Found Out"

Oh Wassi,<P>I'm sorry that I misunderstood. I thought that the info was "new & recent." I guess that it still can be considered new, since you just found out about it.<P>I understand that it still hurts, just the same, because you were under the impression that there was no longer any contact, only to find out that you were being deceived.<P>Had I been more "educated on MB principles," I would have handled my situation differently also. Unfortunately, I had to learn the hard way, as most of us do. It sucks...I know...I know...<P>Don't make any rash decisions. After you absorb some of this, I'm sure that you'll get a better grasp on how to handle this.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Survivor [aka_NoTrust] (edited January 20, 2001).]

Wassi,<P>I can understand your feeling "stupid, humiliated, violated, etc. etc. etc!!!<P>My H, too, insisted they were just friends and that he had a right to have women friends. Then it went to he liked her, then he held her once to console her, then yes he told her he loved her, but never slept with her, but then yes he slept with her (once the story goes), but there was a lot of sexual play but it wasn't intercourse (so it's ok?). ETC.<P>Wassi, he was scared SH#%less - simple. He was so screwed up in his lies and justification to himself (trying to prove to himself he was NOT wrong), that he was still lying every time I asked for more info - leaking a small bit of the truth but OUT and OUT lying. Simply, he absolutly was not going to volunteer any more information than he absolutely had to. It took a long time to get it out of him - a lot of pain - and today I know I probably only know 50% to 75% of the stuff they did and the intimacy and closeness that bleeping OW had with my husband.<P>Why do they do this to us - it is the "Force of the Affair"!! I wrote a long post on this in the fall - please look at it. It REALLY helped me once I moved to this understanding.<P>Wassi - they were lying, betraying, cruel jerks during their A's. Why? Because the Force of the A mandated it MUST be that way. If you are going to have an A you MUST be deceitful and cruel. Kind of like "half-forgiveness" - it doesn't really happen. A spouse who has an A will be a total jerk. I know why my H lied to me, yelled at me, emotionally abused me - because he was weak and foolish enough to have a sexual, love relationship with the OW while trying to keep of the charade with his wife. What other choice did he have but to treat me so rottenly as long as HE CHOSE to be controlled by the Force of the A - the result was that I would be treated like dirt in my position as his wife. The continued contact (supposedly "casual") he had with his little tart for 7 mos still mandated that he act under the Force of the A. He was lying to his W every day about seeing her - he had no choice but to lie to me - by seeing her he was continuing the A - thus was continuing to be controlled by the Force of the Affair.<P>I guess what I am trying to say is I know this new info is the knife back in your stomach. It's a carry over of deceits when all you have wanted is for him to come clean, to realize this horrible time was part of your life too, to respect you enough to ensure you do not have to be shamed by anything further. After all - haven't you gone through enough?<P>Wassi, as much as I hate what we've gone through - I know truly know how this man I thought I knew for 23/24 yrs could have treated me - his wife - as a total second-class citizen compared to how he treated his OW - simply because of the "Force of the A".<P>Our first attempt a rebuilding was not good - he was expecting me to just forgive - all the while he was seeing her on a "casual" basis - because he was home & good (albeit lying to his W about contact with the OW). It couldn't be good - the Force of the Affair was still controlling how he felt about me, us and her.<P>Believe me, it does not hurt any less - but KNOWING why he treated me so poorly - he really had no choice based on his decisions at that time - as helped me to accept it.<P>I don't like what he did and how he treated me - I will hate it until I die - but I do not have to ask WHY or HOW - I know .. the Force of the Affair.<P>I HOPE THIS HELPS!!<P>I know this is one of my fears - silly as it is. As things are getting better - what if SOMETHING totally opposite of what he is having me believe surfaces from the past? What if I find out something that just proves to me that I am or was a sucker - what will I do? I think of this often... guess it can happen - eh?<P>Sudz

<B>Wassi</B><P>My dear friend. I am so sorry! Can I say it again. I am so sorry! I know how upset you must be if you are here posting. I wish I had been on earlier. My thoughts and prayers are with you of course.<P>I can't wait to talk to you through the IM's we do. I know I will understand better in our conversations.<P>I am going to wait until I hear from you and get a clearer picture of what is going on before I make more comments. I seem a little confused tonight. Don't know why?<P><B>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Wassi}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}</B><P>Love ya,<P>------------------<BR><B>God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! With God on our side we can't lose! What God has joined together let no man put asunder. <P>Samantha</B><p>[This message has been edited by A blessed Samantha (edited January 20, 2001).]

Wassi, I just want to give you a hug.<P> (((((Wassi)))))<P>You are a beautiful person. You are QUALITY. You are not an idiot. You are not a fool. You are a wonderful, caring, devoted, loyal, dependable, creative, loving, generous, wise, smart, interesting, deep person. Don't you let yourself forget that.

I just thought of something.<P>Wassi, have you confronted him? Let's think this through...<P>If you haven't confronted him, then why don't you try and catch him in something (WITH WITNESSES THERE SO THERE IS NO STUPID EXCUSES ON HIS PART, SOME REAL HARD CORE EVIDENCE) so this can all come out in the open - and you can work towards some resolutions with all of this.<P>Let's get creative, ladies.

Where is the mastermind of sneaky resolutions? Sweat Pea, where are you when we need you?

((((((wasstubborn)))))))<P>I was thinking about you today and wondering how you are. I am so sorry that you are experiencing this pain YET AGAIN. Numb is exactly what I would expect you to feel. <P>I hope you are having a good time tonight at the game and that you are able to get out some of your justifiable anger there. I have been going to kick boxing and it really helps me to get my anger out. My poor instructor had no idea what she was in for when she, holding the punching bag, told me to take out my aggressions on this bag... She went flying... What can I say...<P>You are not stupid and you are not an idiot. You are a woman who trusted her H. That is what you were SUPPOSED to be. But, yet, I know exactly how you feel. So, have you talked to your H about this? Does he know that you know all this? <P>I feel for you so much as I endured those tell-tale cell bills too, as you know. I know exactly what you feel about that being your sense of reality. You know what has become really pathetic of me? I have become afraid to snoop. I am afraid of what I might find and I don't think I am strong enough to handle any more discoveries. Not that I have had any in a while, but there is always that fear. So, I think you are incredibly strong to be able to face this and soldier on. I hope you post back to all of us soon as I really need some more info on your situation. <P>And how are your children through all of this? Do they know? <P>

My dear friends....<BR>I'm sorry about my earlier posts. This new information means basically that they were best buddies for years while I thought there was no contact...and even when I found out I thought it was very sporadic. We are talking pretty much daily for years. I made a lot of major life decisions based on my perceptions of what was happening. My decisions would have been very different if I had known.<P>Survivor<BR>I know you understand. I have been through this too many times to make any rash decisions. It is simply that my whole understanding of my life has been turned upside down again. You try and try to deal with things only to find that isn't what was real.<P>Sudz<BR>I remember your post. It made a great deal of sense to me. You really help more than you know.<BR>The one thing I worry about when posting about my situation is that I will instill the "fears" that you are talking about in others. <BR>Please know that my situation is not the norm. I am dealing with something far bigger than an affair. I have known that for some time.<P>Samantha<BR>What can I say? I'm sorry you had to read this. That's the other thing I worry about. Disappointing my friends. <BR>I think that I could talk for months and still not be able to explain the depth of this new discovery. I am so tired.<P>TNT<BR>My dear friend.<BR>I told him what I know. I went to the hockey game without him. I did not go into detail about how I know. <BR> Sweetpea would have some wonderful thoughts. We think very much alike.<BR>I have nothing to say to my H at the moment. He knows that. I would not let him speak because I did not want to here the word "friend" today.<P>DI<BR>What is this ESP thing you and I have?<BR>I think I am winning the battle of Queen of the cell phone bills. <BR>My kids are older. They are fine. That is why I am still going. Their father has become close to them since the affair. That is the one major positive that has come out of this. They will not know what I have found. <BR>My brother is very ill...waiting for a bone marrow donor. When the boys see me cry it is very easy to let them think it is simply worry for my brother. A lot of it is. So I will pull this off for them. I have promised myself that.<BR>Thank you for caring.

We have now officially failed "communication 101".<BR>Apparently he thought I already knew this???

<B>Wassi</B><P>Just checking in. You haven't dissappointed me sweetie, not the right word.<P>I was just checking in to see how it all is going. I see by your last post that you were up very late. I am hoping your asleep at the moment.<P><BR>Your H certainly is failing at communication 101. Maybe this can be the start of his finally getting to figure out what that means and how to do it. At least how important it is. Geeze! <P><B>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Wassi}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}</B><P><BR>I'll check in later.<P><BR>------------------<BR><B>God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! With God on our side we can't lose! What God has joined together let no man put asunder. <P>Samantha</B><p>[This message has been edited by A blessed Samantha (edited January 21, 2001).]

blankety blank blank blank and blank ! Where is my blankety blasnk blankin 2x4 ? <P>Wassi I am so so sorry that I live here in Texas and not close to you. We could have a phone party ! And then well... never mind I don't want to frighten the men here too much. You ever seen a Pace Picante commerical ? <P>You have not failed anything and he knows it. You didn't know because it was hidden from you plain and simple. <P>Please take care of you right now. I am sorry your brother is so ill. I will be praying. Wassi you know that we all love you<BR>at least you had better know it ! <P>------------------<BR>Deb<P>Hepatitis C, Please educate yourself ! <A HREF="http://www.hepatitis-central.com/<P>In" TARGET=_blank>http://www.hepatitis-central.com/<P>In</A> memory of a very dear friend <A HREF="http://fathom.org/teemingmillions/wally.adp" TARGET=_blank>http://fathom.org/teemingmillions/wally.adp</A>

Hey Wassi,<P>I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, hate the "friend" excuse AND the "I thought you knew" excuse. I lived with it for nearly two years now myself. They are not even excuses, they are just plain lies!<P>First of all, I have many friends of both sexes. I don't have sex with any of them, nor any other kind of relationship that I need to hide. Secondly, as smart as you and I both are we are not mind readers. How were you supposed to "know" that he was talking to her? Maybe because he didn't specifically tell you that he WASN'T? And even if you had asked him point-blank, would he have told you the truth? I ASKED firestorm straight out on a regular basis if he communicated with the OW after I knew about the affair, and he looked me right in the eye and LIED. I believed him because I did not think he would lie to me so overtly. I was wrong, and therefore blindsided, just as you are right now. It is a very disconcerting feeling, and makes you feel that your whole relationship was a lie.<P>Please explain your comment about their relationship being more than an affair. I don't care WHAT he thinks it is, it is a dishonest, sneaky, conniving, filty AFFAIR. He can call it a "friendship" until the cows come home, but IT IS NOT. Even if it was, there is NO friendship that should hold precedence over your marriage. Period.<P>Is there any hope that this man is EVER going to "get it"? Firestorm's first counselor (she referred him to a specialist) told us that that was the most difficult part for a cheater's recovery. She told us that we would just be spinning our wheels in our relationship until he "got it", meaning accepted the blame and responsibility, stopped making excuses, acknowledged the pain and suffering he had caused me, came completely clean about the affair, and committed himself 100% to changing himself, making it up to me, and saving our marriage. She actually enumerated those things to him. SEVERAL TIMES. Then she told him that even if he did all of that, it might not be enough to save our relationship, since he had damaged it so severely. But that if he did not do those things, we had NO CHANCE to have a successful rebuilding.<P>When I spoke to her individually, the counselor told me that affairs are about the betrayer and not their spouse. She advised me not to waste my time feeling stupid or inadequate because I wasn't, that all I had done was put my marriage first and trust my husband to do the same. He failed, but I didn't. The same things are true about you.<P>From the tone of your posts, I would assume that this is the final nail in that coffin, and I can't blame you. What I can do is offer any help or support that you need. Whatever you decide to do regarding your marriage, we will be here to help in any way we can. I was really hoping that firestorm could help by talking to your husband. After I read your post last night and told him about it, he really wasn't surprised. He said he had the feeling it wasn't over and that your husband didn't want his advice. I wish we could do more. We'll be thinking about you and hoping for a miracle.<P>Peppermint

Morning, Wassi (I'll drop the "good" on purpose!).<P>I see by your last post you were either up with the birds or up all night. Isn't it amazing the power their pain upon us has?<P>I wouldn't worry that your posts will instill fears - what we have been through has already instilled the fears. I, for one, must no longer be naive (about time at 49 yrs old). I must be able to see things as they are. That is the only way I can truly protect myself. I cannot control how anyone treats me - but I have control over what I do with their actions.<P>What little bit I know about you, this situation with bimbo went on so long that it is a very major part of your time with your H. Because it has gone on SO long, you must have been "slapped" with it many, many times. You must have had that knife in your stomach more times that not the last 8 yrs or so. It is so hard to try to think clearly when everything comes back to this.<P>I think to succed and recover, there has to come a time or point in the process where the line from the past is really crossed into the present. Has you H done that? Like, is he truly sorry he was so stupid for so long that he kept hurting you over and over? Does he truly realize the unfairness of his selfishness for you? Do you like the person in your H that you see now? If - big if - you could wipe away the horrible past transgression - do you LIKE the man who is with you now?<P>I'm sure at times like this - you just want to give up and run. Each new piece of junk or pain I was hit with, I wanted to run. There are just so many things to think about and I KNOW you are getting sick of it consuming you!<P>No concrete advice to give. I guess you just keep weighing things - what else is there? Even though we are at a pretty good spot and I am having faith in him - I cannot promise him that I will not leave yet because of this. Like I told him, I am here because I haven't made a decision to leave and I am working on accepting my life as it will now have to be. He still has lots of "proving" to do. He realizes that I am paranoid and cautious because of what HE did, and that he has altered my trust in him as well as my trust in the life I used to call mine. It will never be the same - and it won't. I must accept that. But it probably can be very, very good and perhaps the lesser of many evils.<P>Best go and get coffee on. I hope you can get the "answers" - whatever they are - you need to get that knife feeling out of you again for a while!<P>Sudz

Wassi,<P>Just checking in. I don't have much to add. The others have been so eloquent in their replies to you. I just want to offer you a cyber-hug.<P>((((Wassi))))

Wassi,<P>I just caught this thread as I don't come over too often...<P>My question is this...<P>Have you developed a plan?? Do you want your marriage??<P>If you do, you now have <B>ALL</B> the tools to get through this in the proper way way via <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A and Plan B</A>. The trick right now with all the pain and anger steaming through you system is to not commit <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A>.<P>If he is showing you any attention there might be hope still. Have you what it takes to tuff it out is the big question...<P>Dig out your copy of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>Surviving An Affair"(SAA)</A> by Dr. Willard Harley and maybe even go get the the other book, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6030_love.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters"</A> by Dr. Willard Harley.<P>Just know we love you and will be walking through this with you. I really don't want to see another "old" timer on the Divorce board.<P>Love ya,<P>Bill<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Wasi}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>[This message has been edited by WilliamJ (edited January 21, 2001).]<P>[This message has been edited by WilliamJ (edited January 21, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by WilliamJ (edited January 21, 2001).]

It seems like some people just don't understand the concept that lying is wrong. To them, lying is ok if it makes their lives easier, or postpones consequences. <P>I used to think my H was basically truthful. Since the affair began, he has lied to everyone - to me, to the kids, to his boss, I imagine to the OW. The other day during a meeting with our youngest's teacher he told them that he takes her on weekends - he actually takes her one day every 4 weeks. He was later asked if he works for a company in a particular field, and he said yes. He has actually been unemployed for almost 9 months. He was then asked if the company was in the town in which he lives - luckily for him, someone then changed the subject before he dug the hole any deeper. Apparently it is ok to lie to avoid embarrassment, to avoid difficult questions, to avoid ... anything.

Thank you all for being here!<BR>I didn't get much sleep last night. my oldest came home late and had some serious things to discuss with me. Now I think he needs to take precedence ovver everything.<P>Samantha<BR>You are always so optomistic. You always see the begining of something. I am not there yet today. But I'm glad i didn't disappoint you.<P>Deb<BR>You know I love you too. I wish you were here with the 2X4. I'm too tired to lift it.<P>peppermint<BR>I told him last night that if I ever heard the word "friends" again I would do something very serious....probably illegal.<P>When I said he thought I knew...I meant that he thought I had already made that discovery. He was quite certain at the time that I didn't know what was going on. He thought this was something I had figured out with the rest of the garbage.<BR>No my friend...I don't think that he is going to get it. When I say "more than an affair" I mean that this is so twisted it was more of a life/personality he developed with her over the years. The person he is now is a result of that relationship.<P>Sudz<BR>You ask some very good questions. <BR>I do like a lot of things about him now.....on a good day. He has made some major changes. I'm just not sure if they are enough. Thank you for all your thoughts. They really help.<P>Survivor<BR>Thanks for the hug and everything that comes with it.<P>Bill<BR>i have no thoughts of a Plan right now. I don't have the energy.<BR>Thank you for caring.<P>Nellie<BR>I know what you mean about the lies and I know you understand. <BR>Thank you.<BR>

I have tried to post a reply to you four times and AOL keeps kicking me out. Good thing for my WS that he isn't married to AOL. Ha Ha. <P>Since I apparently cannot type for very long before being ousted, I will email you if I can find your email address. Mine is family1st_642@yahoo.com if you would like to email me. I understand so much of what you are feeling. <P>(((((((((((wasstubborn)))))))))))))

Dear friend, I have been meaning to e-mail you and have been woefully neglectful. Please forgive me!<P>What is up with this?<P>Are you saying she had two homes?<P>It so saddens me you H is not stepping up to the plate to be the man you deserve...<P>Not much to say, but sending hugs and prayers!

DI<BR>my e-mail is mmawilliams@hotmail .com.<BR>Forgive me if I don't get to it right away. The problem with my son needs immediate attention.<P>FHL<BR>You are absolutely right. She had at least two homes. The long distance one she spent very little time at. The other that I know of was a relative. I had no idea that she was living that close during those years.<BR>My perception of what happened has once more been turned upside down.<BR> I moved to this house on the assumption that she was gone from his life. I made a lot of sacrifices to give him his "dream home". All the while he was playing with her. <BR>I feel like such an idiot. And this hasn't even really sunken in yet.<BR>Thank you for always being there my friend.

Wassi,<BR>I have been here reading and reading. I want to add something, BUT.....you already know my thoughts about all this and I don't want everyone here to see a different side of me that isn't pretty....I don't think that they think that I ramp and rave!!!!! LOL<BR>I'm glad that you have opened this up to others also, It is good to talk and get it out. Someday...I say...Someday...This will all end. (one way or another).....<BR>You know how much I hate that you go through so much of this...but, I am always here, not much wisdom I'm afraid, but I can just listen sometimes and keep my mouth shut, NOT!<BR>Keep strong, friend..... You will find the answers you need, not the ones you keep tripping over.<BR>AH<BR>

<B>Wassi</B><P>Just checking in again. I know you know that you are on my mind. So much on your plate right now.<P>I am hoping all is all right with your oldest son? You're right, he has to come first right now. <P>I want to knock your H's butt around the Village Square. Not sure it would do a whole bunch of good, other than serve to feed my frustration and maybe yours? Deb's two by four sounds like a good idea too.<P>No advise of course. Can't fathom what I would do given your situation. PTL my hubby got honest and stayed honest with me. <P>I am still thinking about that little task we were talking about when I come up in eight days. What do you think? I am pretty sure I may be able to rent a car for a day or two. Know I am there for you okay?<P>Until then, all I can offer is another big <B>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Wassi}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}</B> Wish it could be more. <P>Love ya,<P>------------------<BR><B>God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! With God on our side we can't lose! What God has joined together let no man put asunder. <P>Samantha</B><p>[This message has been edited by A blessed Samantha (edited January 21, 2001).]

AH, Samantha<BR>You both have mail.<BR>Thank you for caring.<P>AH<BR>I don't think I want any more answers. <BR>I am just very tired. Not sure that I can deal with this crap again...mentally and emotionally.<P>samantha<BR>Thank you....I will try to talk to you soon.

Hey, WS ( man, I STILL can't use that nickname! LOL )<P>Nothing really to add; just sending thoughts and prayers your way… us oldtimers have to stick together, after all… especially when times get rough. Nice thing about the down side of this rollercoaster, though… there's always a corresponding upside! <BR><P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die

Hi Wassi,<P>I'm sorry you are feeling that body and mind numbing exhaustion again that accompanies these endless discoveries. <P>Take care of yourself and your sons - as for your H, I just really don't know what to say. I wish he could see what he is doing to you. Sadly I don't think he can.<P>hugs,<BR>Starpony

Whodat<BR>You call me whatever you want. <BR>Now you have promised me an upside....remember that. I've been feeling very much like I'm wandering around the House of Glass instead of riding the roller coaster. You know....wandering around...knowing there is a way out...but bumping into glass every second step.<P>Starpony<BR>You know I always love to see your name. <BR>There isn't much to say. I needed to get this out. <BR>This isn't something he did recently. He certainly wasn't open about the truth about the relationship. It just feels as though I have discovered an old affair on top of the recent one and I am not ready to process those feelings again.<P>If there is a lesson in all of this....it is "Get the truth out completely in the beginning!" <BR>No hedging, minimizing...admit it, get rid of it so you can honestly go forward.<BR>I have just wasted two years processing something that wasn't true. And the three years before that living a complete idiot fallacy.<P>Sorry...you got stuck with my morning vent. I have to get myself together. The next two weeks are going to be very stressful here for a dozen other reasons. It helps to have friends.

Hey wassi,<P>I'm just checking to see how you are. Is there ANYTHING I can do to help you in any way? Besides all the prayers I am praying, I mean.<P>Peppermint

Wassi,<BR>I'm sorry I'm late. You've been on my mind for a few days, I've thought of emailing you as well. <P>One of the thoughts I've had lately is that I can barely deal with the knowledge of the A that I do have, I don't want anymore details. <P>I don't want to minimize your pain. <P>My H's acquaintance with his OW through work goes back nearly as far as your H's. I'll never really know when it "started". There was the pool team fall of 96 & 97 they were on together. I do know he took pains to keep us apart long before he says there was "anything" but friendship. I know when I did happen to go to a party she was at, 3 1/2 years ago she was a b**** to me--and that was also supposed to be months before.<P>So, I know a little about things going on for years and years, continuing when he said it didn't and knowing I'll never know, and not sure if I will ever believe it is truly over/over. It sucks.<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Wassi}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>So, if commisseration from one of your old MB buds helps, you've got it.<P>I also pray that whatever is going on with your son reaches an optimal outcome.<P>Love,<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Whatever is true, honorable, just, pure, lovely, gracious...think about these things." Phil 4:8

peppermint<BR>Thank you. I don't think there is anything to do right now. I am in the stage of trying to grasp the level of deceit that he so easlily achieved in those years. And wondering if someone who is capable of that can change. <P>Lor<BR>I have been thinking of you too. I tried to reply to your thread in recovery last week. My computer wouldn't cooperate then all h#@l broke loose here again.<P>I am right with you in your feelings about not knowing if it will ever truly be over. <BR>I am torn between needing to know exactly what was being kept from me and wanting that complete lobotomy.<BR>The sad thing is......I know that before he met her he very rarely lied to me.<BR>

Wassi,<P>I wish I had something wonderful to say that would sooth your soul....but I do not.<P>((((((((((((((wassi)))))))))))<P>So sorry you are still going through this. Can I just say your H would be a great candidate for a clue. Again I am so sorry.

Hi Wassi,<P>I'm just checking on you. Vent all you want. I can imagine how painful it is to find out some old revelations. It never pays to lie. It almost always comes out eventually. I don't understand why most wayward spouses do that...purposely hide things. They seem to think that they'll never get caught. My H did that and 9 months after D-Day, the truth came out. It put our recovery to zero.<P>It really sucks, but you & your H have been in good recovery for awhile. You both have learned new behaviors and have used the tools to make a better marriage. I think that you'll survive this.

Paha<BR>It soothes my soul just to see your name.<BR>Are you okay? I saw your thread just as all this was breaking loose too. Didn't have anything intelligent to reply.<P>Survivor<BR>Thanks for your faith in us. I am just letting the truth sink in right now. You know that feeling. I'm just not sure about anything right now.<BR>Thanks all again.

Dear Wassi....<P>I'm sorry I missed this before. I'm angry now and not capable of good advice, sooooo.....<P>You know I send my love...and hugs. I'll be back.<P>Love,<P>Lori

{{{{{{{{wassi))))))))))<P>Sorry I am a bit late here but I haven't replied to many posts here lately. I was so sorry to hear of your latest disappointments with Mr. W. I do wish I could have been of some help to the both of you. I don't know what kind of hold the OW has over him, but he is going to have to be the one to cut the ties. I just wish I could make him see that what he is doing is hurtful to you and your family, and slowely, day by day, destroying him also. I know one day he will wake up and see that, I just hope it is soon. Peppermint and I will be here for you now and always as long as you need us.<P>We are thinking of you each night and hoping and praying things will works out for you.<P>..........fs<P>I had to edit this. I can't spell nor type!!!<p>[This message has been edited by firestorm (edited January 23, 2001).]

Hi Wassi,<P><BR>I hope you are doing well. I think about all of you so much in my down time in the car. I care for so many women on this board. Too bad I can not shake some thoughtfulness into your H for you. My cat Abby sends her love as well. (She is named for Abigale Adams who I think is one of the founders of the women's rights movement) When ever I am at home on the computer working she loves to help. <P>Cyber hug from the both of us ((((((((((((((((((((((wassi))))))))))))))<P>Thanks for asking about me. He will not move out. I am giving it a couple more months. I went on a second job interview today and pray that I get it. I need to leave my job now.

firestorm<BR> <BR>so nice to see you.<BR>This hold is obviously much bigger than I ever imagined. Until three days ago I was under the impression that he had called her maybe 15-20 times in 2 years. Now I know it was at least once a day? Big, big thing for me to grasp. I just can't seem to get a concept of that level of deceit. He knew every time he dialed that phone that I hated the thought of them talking.<BR>Thank you for caring.<BR>I don't think he will ever own this.<P>Paha<BR>{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}} back at you.<BR>I have two wonderful cats so I really appreciate you sharing yours with me.<P>I am slowly letting this sink in. Not sure what I can do with it. <BR>At least I understand a little more about how very attached they were to each other. Now I think I see why no-contact was so impossible....and may always be. <BR>I am not going there now. Too much practice in this. I know I'm not ready to deal with the future yet. <BR>My brother is having an auto transplant on Friday so my mind is in two hundred different places. Not much of it left to go that far.

HI Wassi, first let me give you a hug. I have been wondering where you were hiding?My puter keeps d/cing itself and DH thinks that visiting this site makes me edgy? Imagine that! (for those of you that forget, DH is either DearHusband or ****head, depending on his behavior and my mood)<BR>Start by saying I had to send some hugs before reading pgs 2 and 3. Will go there next.<BR>Given this new turn, and not having caught up, I vote for detach mode.<BR>(((((wassi)))))

{{{{{{{{{wassi}}}}}}}}}<P>I really don't know what to say, but one of your comments struck me... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I know that before he met her he very rarely lied to me<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>The secrecy implied in betrayal is very powerful. I can relate to your comment above. Before OM, my W was so adverse to lying that she would sometimes rely on me to tell white lies about unimportant things like excuses to avoid social events, etc. Before OM, she couldn't lie to save her own life. This is one aspect of this nightmare that I truly do not comprehend.<P>No human being would knowingly inflict the hurt that you are being given. He isn't doing this intentionally, but knowing that doesn't lessen the pain and shouldn't change any decisions you make, but it does hurt just the same. I wish I had some kind of sage advice, but I don't, only empathy.....

HI Wassi,<BR>Alright, I have been thru pg 2.<BR>What is it with these betrayers and not being able to figure out what the 'whole truth' means? Seems it is universal....<BR>Very sad indeed. <BR>(Mine still cannot figure out how I could turn down a wonderful job offer-just what I wanted with great money. Gee, maybe because it was in the same town as an OW? Now, for all betrayeds, is this really hard to understand?)<BR>When they tell the truth, they are facing it also. This makes it quite unbearable for them-not only do they have to say it....but you are looking at them, astonished and totally upset, probably near hysteria, so they have to deal with their own feelings and with yours. <BR>Wassi, until he faces the entire truth, how can he share it all? To him it was merely a friendship.....he has yet to understand the depth of his actions. <BR>Just as DH still does not understand the depth of his infidelity. <BR>It is not US wassi. It never was about US. It is them. They have to grow from this, they have to search their souls.<BR>(((((wassi)))))

{{{{{{{{{{{{WASSI}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Just a hug letting you know I'm still thinking of you...<P>Bill

HI Wassi, Okay, have finished reading.....<BR>how did the hockey ref make out? <BR>Advice from me is to be very careful what you ask because you might not like the answer. And, the truth does not always set you free. <P>What I am reminding you of is something we talked abt a longgggggg time ago. Gads, seems like yrs?! <P>WHY does it really matter how many times he talked to her and where? <BR>I am playing the devils advocate here..okay? He talked to her. We know that. And he had a relationship with her that was wrong. He lied for a long time abt the whole thing. You knew he had an attachment to her, so why does it matter how many times and where he called her? <BR>You also know that the truth to you is very different than the truth to him. You do not see this in the same light. He is seeing friendship with occ sex thrown in. You are seeing a serious relationship, maybe love?, with sex and a friendship that only a husband and wife have. <BR>Wassi, you do not need to know these details to heal. They will not help you move on my dear. Think about that just a bit? <BR>Hugs for you and your son. Aloha, cl

Lori<BR>Duhhhhh!<BR>I looked really rude not replying before but I chatted and e-mailed you. So... .....sorry.<P>cl<BR>I love you!<BR>You have mail.<BR>I did need to know because he would volunteer nothing. DH at least volunteered something to you. I got this info while watching my back...and doing those darn books again. <BR>I can't accept this. The affair I could accept. Bad brain...you know.<BR>This was deliberate betrayal..no matter how old it is. And then he wouldn't fess up..and then all this time he has been justifying and excusing this? There is no real remorse here. Just covering his A#@ for two years.<BR>BTW...the ref is okay but the other parents at the parent meeting ..whew...they were in shock.<P>Heartpain<BR>Seeing your name means everything. Don't worry about sage advice...there is none.<BR>I want the man I married back. And I want the bimbo to have just a little taste of what this feels like. But she won't. She doesn't care about anyone but her. I think my H is starting to see that. Too little too late?<P>Bill<BR>Thank you for thinking of me.<BR>I wish ...I wish...I wish...you know what I wish for all of us.