Why do we want recovery? Ego? Security? What?

So why do we do it? There are so many BS's on this site looking for help. We all desperately want to know the reasons and the details of the affairs. There is a lot of pain here, past, present and future.

What are the motivations?! Is it ego? When we discover the affair does it hurt our feelings of self-worth so much that we need to Plan A and win the S back in order to feel good about ourselves.
Do we need security? Is it safer to try to win the S back than to chuck them (and all of their belongings) out on the street. Are D's just too embarassing and therefore just the last possible resort? Is it easier to try to restart with the WS who has completely betrayed our trust, our feelings and in most cases our bodies than to go it alone for awhile until the day when we find someone with a clean slate? Can we ever really know for sure that the WS has completely returned to us? In body yes but in mind and sole? Are we to be compared to the lost OP forever.

I hope for all of us that these cynical thoughts are just that. I hope we all love our spouses despite their weakness. I hope that we can trust again and know that when we walk into the room our S's look at us and they melt inside. Recovery is a God send but if only for the right reasons.

Please share your thoughts.

cwmac,

You present some interesting and fundamental questions in your post.

Personally, my answers, are yes, yes, and yes.

My D-day occurred when I was jobless, emotionally spent, poor, and in a strange town (my wife waited until the very day we moved to this town to tell me!). If I had chosen to depart, I would have been homeless. This sounds like incredible cruelty, and I guess it was.

Truth be told, I intended to revisit my options once I was on my feet. My inclination was to leave; I had not been so injured before in my life.

Instead, I stayed. I did all the wrong things to win her back. But somehow it worked. Now that I had her back, did I want her?

The pains eased, and I moved on. We never revisited this trauma. I suppose I have many issues not yet dealt with.

But in answer to your questions, my eqo was shattered. Her return resurrected a bit of it. Of course, sticking around kept me from being homeless (we had moved to the town to pursue her career). And there was some security in having her back.

Also, being of fragile ego, I didn't really think I could find another woman who at the very least would love me for a time.

It has been quite awhile since these events. I do love my wife, but I have never fully recovered from these events. Even she says I might have found another without her "history" that I could have loved as much. I don't know.

My motivation...

I wasn't about to walk away from a marriage when I couldn't say to myself that I'd done everything in my power to make it work. Done my share, as it were. Both my FWH and I needed to really try because the dissolution of the M would not only affect us but our 2 kids as well. We both had invested alot of ourselves in our M and neither could see just throwing it away. A divorce wouldn't have been an embarassment...for us it was a last resort.

As for moving along to start a new slate... Affairs don't happen in a vacuum. I acknowledge that I helped create the conditions in my marriage that made it easy for my H to decide to stray. Yes, he made the choice but, I helped create the enviroment in which that choice took place. That being said, if I don't learn from this mistake then who's to say I wouldn't repeat it when I've started this new slate with this new person? I really believe you have to learn from your experiences before you move on.

If I trust in nothing else it's that my FWH wants to be with me. He made that choice as well. He had every opportunity to leave and be with the OW and decided to be with myself and our kids. The decision to stay was his, not mine. He has returned and I believe when he looks back on our 'dark days' it's not with longing for the OW but, he kicks his own a** for what he did! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Who knows, maybe I'm wrong but, I can't spend the rest of my life speculating. I have to live my life, move on and try to learn.

Question & MGM,
Thanks for your responses. Maybe for men, ego is the primary reason and for women it's security/children protection. I also think that self-preservation kicks in because of the numbing pain that is caused by the discovery of the betrayal. You'd think that this would cause the easy way out, divorce but quite the oppsite occurs we choose the harder more painful path. Still can't explain it. MGM's point about what to give it your all befor quitting may be the closest answer there is.

I can't deny it - sometimes I have similar thoughts lurking in the back of my mind. Indeed, why go through the pain if you can just chuck it in and start from fresh?
Well, I still hang on. Why? Firstly, I do have responsibility vis-a-vis my daughter. I sincerely beleive that a family environment is the best possible situation for a child to grow up. I don't buy the happy-single-mum, better-separated-than-together, gay-parents or whatever crap.

Secondly, I truly beleive that no one understands me better than my wife, and vice versa. We've spent the last 10 years, roughly a third of our life, together and saw and experienced a lot. It's more than just the 'getting used to' factor - it's really a half of myself which would go missing.
But at the end of the day, what can I do? what can we do? If SHE chucks it all in for that other pr**k, then that's her (rather stupid) choice, and I wont be around & waiting forever. Life goes on. But for the time being, I'm here & ready & waiting.

I feel like I made a promise when I married her to be there for her. I can't, in good faith, dump her... yet. I need to know that she'll be emotionally stable enough to survive and I need to stick it out long enough to see the end from the beginning. Right now, I only see the beginning... that light at the end of the tunnel may be the true love of my life (her or someone else) or it might be the 2nd train that's about to hit me.

I suppose the only way I'll know is if I can pull myself back up enough to risk getting hit.

Im in a similar frame of thinking as Nick123.
And Im female, so yes, protection and children is a priority, I dont feel bad about it either.

And, I still love him. Some days I dont feel it because hes not with me.

And I know he wonders if Id still be trying so hard if we didnt have our baby boy. Im not in that position, so I dont know.

If he comes back, great, as long as he works on a better marriage with me, but if someone else comes along then he may just find his time is up.

Dancer

Thanks all for comments.
Sometimes I catch myself with that same thought as Dancer but it may just be the anger boiling to the top. I don't think I'd do it.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by cwmac:
Question & MGM,
Thanks for your responses. Maybe for men, ego is the primary reason and for women it's security/children protection. .<hr /></blockquote>I didn't stay for either of those reasons. I am financially secure in my own career and not dependent upon him. I stayed because he showed remorse and truly turned himself around. He has become an open, honest, devoted husband and I have fallen back in love with him. Had that not happened, I would not have let him stay. We now have a wonderful marriage.

The bottom line is that there are many others like me whose spouses have made a 180 degree turn. I think most people deserve a chance if they show the right attitude. That is reason enough to forgive someone and stay with them.

I should add one thing, though. When I first found out about the affair, I only wanted to dump him. He begged me to go to counseling and I decided to go to a few sessions so I could dump him with a clear conscience. I ended up falling back in love with him and here I am almost 2 years later!

Melody,
My W are in recovery but I still have these feelings creeping into my brain at times. I wish I could stop them.I think they stem from the fact that I found out from my W that the topic of D has come up between her and OM. (She probably tested the waters) He told her flat out "no" due to his children. My guess is that if not for that she would have filed for D and in her mind living "happily ever after." She knows that he is unattainable and is that why she stayed with me or have I truely made her happy with my revolutionary change in attitude and behavior? When his kids are teenagers is he going to come knocking?

I am the OW. I know you don't want to hear from me. I feel the same things you do. Why do I hang on? What's in it for me? Is it pride?

yes, I can tell you there is a lot of pride. We the OW, believe EVERYTHING the MM is telling us - "marriage is dead, no passion, no love, etc". We have to believe it. Do you think we'd stay if we thought we were fowling up someone's life so drastically? We think we're helping. We think we're loving and comforting a man who's lonely and desperate for love and understanding. To think otherwise, makes us a whore. We are not whores. I don't care what you think. We love your husbands. We want to make them whole. We do not believe that we caused their or your pain because THEY tell us differently. We cannot live if we believe we've wrecked your marriage. Flame me if you must, but I speak the truth. I was raised a pentacostal preachers daughter. I never would have selected OW as my call in life. I HATE being here. But I love my MM with all my heart. Flame me, crucify me, but I'll tell you all....you could be me.

Confusedasyou

You may need to duck for cover after that one.

Its not YOUR job to love them, care for them, be there for them, encourage them blah blah blah...

Its our job. So get your claws off them and give us a chance to do it better.

Sorry, but its not you Im furious at, its the OW in my Hs life that you sound like. Youre too close to home with this one.

Theres a mile more I could say to you, but youve obviously got your mind made up to be the mothering angel in our poor little H's lives.

Someone want to hold me back?

Dancer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Confused
A's are painful regardless of which end you are on. I agree with that. I am not going to flame you although others might.
Although my topic was for BS's, I'll ask you. Why do you hang on? You described the WH as having told you many lies. It sounds as though you are in the fog and he is just outright manipilating you as well as his W. Has his W found out about the A? Is he just sitting on the fence bc that's an easy place to be vs. making a decision?
I know it's easier said than done but please find a M who will treat you well. Don't wait for what is probably unattainable mainly bc it hurts you but also bc it hurts other people.
Take care

cwmac:

Warning Will Robinson: I'm probably on my soap box here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Long post.

I agree with your response to confused. Problem is just as that person's name implies: confusion. She may believe she loves the MM. But, the flip side is true also: she may be not facing reality in her own M and has her cake and eat it too there. Of course the MM tells them differently. He's giving the W the same routine. Not wanting to flame or hurt here, but here's a BS's perspective on why I will do what I can to make sure my marriage works and why I am motivated:

- We have a long history together, and I honestly know the man's quirks, personality, and integrity. The man I am married to is experiencing a severe MLC, and I understand that in no way reflects on ME as a person. Additionally, because he is undergoing a journey of his own and questioning his own life does not necessarily mean that in the long term he is willing to give up all that we have built together, honored together, and desired together. I think we both need to learn to face that second half of our lives together.

- Yes. WE both contributed to the state of the marriage. However, commitment to me means not to bail on someone because we both royally screwed up. Because my S has said things and done things to hurt me, damage this marriage does not mean that he necessarily did it to end the marriage. I am not sticking my head in the sand here and saying that we may not divorce. But, relationships definitely have their ups and downs. I'm willing to leave the door open to tell H I'm still here for him, that despite a gajillion mistakes on both of our parts, that yes, we can work it out. It's not my ego at play here. I honestly do love, care for, and respect him. This is really the first honest to god bigger than life crisis we've had in our M. And, we've had a few zingers of other problems too in the past (like hospitalized children, financial problems, etc). IOW, I want to be his friend, his partner, his wife. In many ways, I see a few manipulations on part of my H in order for him to maintain his A when it was ongoing... confused really brought those to light for me. In my case, A ended because she thought H would return home. She became terrified perhaps because she was seeking the security of a stable relationship? I don't know... just my random thoughts there.

- There's no real security issue long-term for me, at least this I'm beginning to realize. At least financially. Sure, I'm strapped right now. But, the more I think about it, I've always been highly independent, had a career for who knows how long, make ok money and decent bennies, and am pretty strong-willed. So, financial security isn't all that big of an issue long-term. I am pretty sure I can make it short-term despite some problems now with house and a couple other things when I look on my own past history.

- Emotional security is another issue. Maybe this is because of how I was raised and my religious background (non-practicing CAtholic), but it does provide me with a good frame of reference and ethics with which to guide MY life. I enjoyed having the security of knowing there is one in my life who will be there to weather the storms and good times with me. And this is nothing to do with hoping we can go back to the past. I honestly love the guy enough to move forward with him as I am changing too and believe life is a journey and I know the interior of the man well enough to say I would like to continue that journey with him.

Right now, my H is fence sitting, teetering towards D, and I'm just keeping my mouth shut, letting him stew and fume. He's deep deep into withdrawal and we've had such a rough time of it. I blew it so many times and we've had so many difficult problems ongoing during this A and separation that it's really going to take some time. My patience will probably wane and tide, and we'll see what happens. But, long run, I am motivated to work it out if it is possible.

What about the children that are the victims of your 'love' for the MM? Do the feelings and life and impact on the children ever get any consideration??

Being in or having an affair is just a selfish act in my opinion. Its always ME ME ME.

Sorry I lost it there last nite guys - I LBed the OW!!! Whats that?

Thanx for following thru her reply graciously, I just couldnt (wouldnt?) do it last nite.

Dancer

I agree LiveAnew. But, unfortunately, the family is often the reason that it seems that MLC men do bolt--my perspective only again. The family seems to become too much responsibility and overwhelm them perhaps. At least in my view, that's part of the modus operandi. Even if the H doesn't admit it... and it would be hard to I guess. Guilt vs. freedom? Tough balance there too. I can honestly say I have a hard time understanding that because I have always been pretty independent and yet really a family/homey person too. But I'm sure I also shirked my share of repsonsibility around here too and I really LB'd my H with my mouth and attitude about family during the A, so it reinforced his need for independence and fun too.

That's just my view from my experience, though.

My H, first A, was when we were living together. 2 children. He left when baby was 6 mo old. I was always one step away from welfare. I still loved him, but if it wasn't for the boys, he would have been long gone.

I took him back, we got married, had baby no 3. I'm not sure to this day, why he wanted to marry me, was it to get out of the child support? He still contact her daily. Did this end and resume or did it never end?

Why do I put up with it now. The kids, the financial security. I could not afford the home, the kids, the kids sports on my paycheck with child support. However, when I am done with school, he will be making some decisions. Because then I will be able to support my children w/o child support. I will make almost what he makes. (Sorry, slight vent thrown in there)

Geez, Sue, you do have it pretty rough.

But it sounds like you're holding up.

I hear you about the school. I'm still there myself. Have six to nine hours to complete... basically a research project. I don't know if I'll have the tuition to finish (my employer pays a good portion, but I have to chuck some it too) as planned this fall... but, I'm gonna check into a few things. I just want to be DONE with it!

Good luck!!! Sounds like you have every reason to vent, but sounds like you're gonna pull through with that determination.

OK, first, I am not married. I am single. Second, I did not seek my MM out, he sought me. I actually told him I wouldn't continue the A after I found out he was married, but there was a spark, and yes..I am weak, I am not perfect, I fell in love.

Yes, I speak from confusion because I want to believe him because I don't want to think I've been a fool. However, I just wanted you all to know that we are not these seething people preying after your husbands. They portray themselves as weak, hurting, lonely, love and sex starved men. Right or wrong that is what they are saying. In all honesty, I want to talk to her and know what he's told her. Yes, she knows about the A. She knows since a month after it started and then he moved out. He's not been back since. That was a year and a half ago. But they're still not divorced. I understand all the psycho stuff about me being an enabler. I also know she is too. You're right it's hard on EVERYONE. It is the worst thing I have ever experienced, but I love him. Just like you do. I'm sorry. I can only appologize to my MM's wife. I wish she were here and I'd do it to her face. If I could walk away I would, but I love him and I believe he wants to be with me because that's what he tells me. I would never ever want anyone - not another woman, not the wife to ever go through this and I am very sorry.

By the way, Dancer - I am not at all hurt or offended by your response it was honest and I do feel your pain and hurt and I don't take it personally. I wish I could help you or make you feel better. I am sorry that an affair has hurt you so bad and I'm sorry my presense in this forum has brought that to such a "real" place for you. I will duck and run. I have mostly been a lurker. I feel awful for the pain his W must feel. I guess that's why I've been around. My guilt. I'm sorry I reminded you of the realness of your pain.

confusedasyou

thanx for the reply, i really appreciate and accept it. I hear what you are saying.

I love my H and I want another chance. I believe he can fall madly in love with me again and that we can have an even better marriage, restored and rejuvinated by God. I feel that if the WW in my Hs life was not around that he might be able to focus on me more clearly, without talking about all my failures and weaknesses to her, which she would encourage as she thinks she loves him and wants me out of his heart.

Is it possible someone like you could help me or will others chime in after this and say thats not appropriate?

Dancer

Dancer...

I'm not certain whether we should reply here. She seems uncertain/unwilling maybe to actively decide to end that R despite what she's up against. Don't know.

I'm afraid that responses could bait the situation into a heated argument. I do wish her well, though. I can understand a lot of what she could be going through--the withdrawal, the loneliness, fear, etc.

dear bluekeyes-i havent heard the word bennies except for jersey-are you from here?

confused...

There is something I don't understand - it is hard for me to not be angry at you because you sound so much like my H's OW...she wrote to me once saying how she understood my pain, and how it would be best if all of our children were brought up by their biological Moms and Dads, but with all blah, blah, blah...and then she tried to justify it all by saying that we all deserved happiness and that if you couldn't find it with the one you are with then by all means you should find it somewhere else.

I do not begrudge anyone the need to fall in love and be with that person. But both people need to be "free" to make that choice. And yes, it is a choice - no matter how you justify it with emotions, it is a choice that you are still in a relationship with a MM.

Just like how I, as a BS, choose to hang in there even though I KNOW I don't feel a 10th of what the OW probably feels for my H right now.
I'm actually glad you posted to this thread because it gives me a good view of what I'm really up against. So as to the original post - why do I hang in there...
1. I'm not ready to be divorced
2. I don't believe that a divorce will ever be in the best interest of my son.
3. I still believe that we can fall in love with each other and have a great marriage.

I say this with the caveat that as I Plan B, all 3 of those reasons dwindle little by little daily.

The best thing about this whole experience is that it has opened my eyes to what a marriage needs to stay healthy - I was very ignorant about that. Plan A has taught me that I can change things by just learning new habits. Plan B has taught me that "patience is a virtue" must have been said by a BS...LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Actually, Plan B means that I can make it just fine on my own with our son.

Lo

"And then she tried to justify it all by saying that 'we all deserve happiness'" ......

Well, this is a common statement that I absolutely disagree with ..... This OW of yours is 100% wrong!

"We all deserve happiness"

..?..? says WHO? ..?

Happiness is INTERNAL .... created by our OWN attitudes .... created by our OWN efforts .... created by our OWN goodness of spirit .....

NONE of us "deserve" happiness ... without our own efforts. If we think we "deserve" effortless happiness (or borrowed or stolen happiness) ... and we are NOT happy ... then others are to be blamed for our own state of mind!

You cannot deserve something you need to earn yourself. You cannot deserve something you steal or borrow from others.

Silly statement this --> "We all deserve to be happy" ... What she really means is "I deserve to feel happy without doing the good and difficult things I should be doing to earn my happiness. "

Sheesh!

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

[ July 20, 2002, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by nikko:
dear bluekeyes-i havent heard the word bennies except for jersey-are you from here?<hr /></blockquote>nikko: no, I grew up near Lake Erie. Lot of east coast influence there, though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Pepper and Local:

I agree. Much of my willingness to work on this M stems from the fact that Ds are NOT good in the long run on families or children. PERIOD. Now, there are times when it's probably best for all concerned to divorce. But, I believe those times a fewer than the statistics we see concerning divorce. Kids sufferer, wives are generally in a lower economic bracket, that sort of thing. And men generally do not do as well after a D or in a second marriage, either. Statistically, Ms stemming from As are not long-term or viable. I don't have any numbers here, but they're available.

Additionally, I am not going to fight the selfishness argument here... basically because we are all selfish beings to some extent. But, I also think selfishness needs to be balanced with unselfishness towards those we choose to put in our lives or those to whom we're connected--spouses, children, friends, family. Why? No man is an island unto himself. And I agree w/you. It is written NOWHERE that we all deserve happiness. We deserve our OWN lives, and that's about it. What we're born with: ourselves. We take the responsibility on our own shoulders to DECIDE to be happy and work with what we have. It's why I struggle in part for this M.

[ July 20, 2002, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: bluekeys ]

Everyone,
Although this isn't the direction that I first intended for this thread, I still am happy it took this direction. It illustrates a behavior that SH points out up on the web site. BS typically direct the anger and venom towards the OP not the WS. Psychologically we just can't accept that our S's did this to us so we villanize the OP. Some of that hostility has definitely been shown against Confused.

In my own situation I have heaped the anger on the OM as well. However he is not the one who lied about the nature of the "friendship." He didn't tell me that they only spoke 1 or 2 times a month vs. every other day. He's not the one who answered my questions about the phone calls with the words," you're being paranoid." He didn't create lies of commission and ommission on the days when they met for lunch. Although my W and I are in recovery there are days that the anger resurfaces, so I probably direct the anger towards him bc otherwise it might go towards W and that would destroy the ongoing recovery.

Confusedasyou ....

You said, "They portray themselves as weak, hurting, lonely, love and sex starved men."

I am sure this is the lure ... the question you may want to ask yourself is this ... Why did you bite the bait?

What makes a "weak" man who has a proven track record of being lousy at relationship/marriage/commitment the man of your dreams?

As a single woman, you are free to be selective, and free to choose a man of strength, character, and honest values. Why not choose a better man? Why limit yourself to someone who is "hurting" and "starving"? Are YOU not worth a quality relationship?

You are really young, I suspect. How old are you ... I hope you don't mind my asking you this. Just to play fair, I'll tell you I am 53 years old. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

CW,

Quite simply, because I still loved her. It took less than a day for me to know that I still wanted my wife and my marriage. I am sure ego had a hand in it as well. I too, had never experienced such trauma in my life. I had all the wild emotional swings, from hating her and what she had done, to asking myself why continue to be on this earth.

My marriage was, for all intents, over. When that finally sunk in my thick skull a year later, I gave up. It wasn't until I quit trying, and quit caring, that I saw REAL changes in my WS. Now she wanted to really do the work, really try to meet some of my needs. In short she wanted to save the marriage.

And while it is very difficult at times, things have been great. It was the best feeling in the world for me to look into my wifes eyes and see the look I remember so well. A look of love. A look of happiness. A look that says "I see nobody else but you, my husband." What a great token she has given me with just that one look. I missed it for so very long....sigh.

So I will say it again. I want recovery because I love my wife with all that I am. Always have.

jd

PS...WOW! Just went back and read the whole thread. Maybe I should remove my post? That's what I get for not reading a whole thread first...lol.
Well, too bad... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> it stays...sorry.

[ July 20, 2002, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: jdmac1 ]

cw - sorry if I veered off subject. I did try to answer the original thread. I wanted to address "confused" because her words sounded so much like the OWs...I do blame my H for the betrayal that he continues to show! But how can you continue to be angry at the WS and still convince yourself you want to recover?! ...my anger tends to get directed at her because no matter what, the OW and WS convince themselves that what they are doing is "justified" because it is in the name of love and personal happiness...just as "confused" stated many times in her post.

Pepper - you crack me up!! I hate to say this, but I did a major LB when I received that email...she sent it to me on Mother's day of all days!! I sent her a blistering letter back ...among some of the things I said was that it was this philosophy of hers that has led her to her second divorce... I know, I know, it probably went in one eye and out the other - and it only gave she and H more fuel for why he shouldn't stay in the M. I talked to Steve H. about it after the fact, and I basically said that she was trying to not only justify the A, but was asking for my confirmation that it was OK...because we all deserve happiness. Gag me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

And as for jdmac1 - I admire you. I hope you and your wife stay in love for the rest of your lives. It is stories like yours that keep me hanging in there!!

Lo

jdmac,

Good for you and the W. Maybe I'm just impatient because although our relationship is tons better unlike you I don't yet see the "look". As far as I know there has been no contact w/ the OM so I should be happy right? Well hopefully the look returns to my W's face also.

Confused - definately dont reply to my bits here. Im not angry (or hostile) anymore, just confused like you but on the other side.

Dancer

Dancer,

Again, I am sorry for your pain. I would definitely never do this again. Of all the people on this post so far, you're the one I can see will find peace and comfort and forgiveness for your S and the OW. Maybe not today, but at least you have a handle on the humanity of the situation - especially the part that you have feelings and you react to the feelings, but that doesn't mean the reaction is justified. Isun't that us all?

To those that have read my posts and feel that I'm justifying my actions aren't reading my words. I have walked away from my MM several times. He lived with me for a while. He doesn't anymore. That doesn't stop my love for him, but you are all right - he is still married and until he's divorced, he's not mine. I'm not stupid, I am weak and confused and fearful of being abandoned and alone. Just as you. Yes, it's very different - I don't have his children. I haven't been through all the ups and downs I haven't invested all that you have. I know that and I feel small and worthless because of it. I feel small because I wasn't strong enough to say no in the first place. I feel small because I would want to die if the situation were reversed. I have not the power or the ability to reverse the past though.

Whoever asked my age, I'm 34. I was married 8 years. I have a 10 year old daughter and I have been divorced 4 years. While you may think I "sound young", maybe it's because you can't face the fact that people fail. Good people, smart people, people like me and your spouse. Though I'm a single woman, I own my own home, I make over $75,000 a year and I am educated. My ex husband pays $0 child support, but I manage to have my child in private school have a 401K that's depressing me todeath right now but I put the maximum into it and I have no debt. What makes me sound young? Because you don't understand me? Because you haven't been me? I haven't been you either, but I'm wise enough to know that I, or someone like me has hurt you. It's not right - it's not kind and I know it's not God's ultimate purpose but it's happened. I have come here maybe to pay penance, maybe because I know I'll never have forgiveness from her. I certainly don't feel I deserve it - however, I am not the evil, depraved person you all think I am. I'm not flaunting my sin here, I'm sorry if you feel that's what I've done.

Confused,
"I know you're not flaunting your sin." Relationships are never cut and dry subjects. In the perfect world you'd meet someone tomorrow who is single/ divorced and therefore available and this person would be in the position to meet your needs so that you get your mind off the MM. Although I don't know your MM, I do know the mind of a man and can say that if he hasn't committed to you by now he probably never will. Just as SH says on the web site these fence sitters are getting needs met by both S and OP.The proverbial "having their cake and eating it too." The reason they don't leave S is because most of needs are being met there and only a few by OP.

I know it sounds cold but there are other M out there that will treat you better than the MM. You deserve this better treatment. I think your D also deserves having a healthy relationship to view as her guiding example for the future. Look at the MB web site there is a section for OP's although I can't remember exactly what it says bc it didn't apply to me.

Dear Confusedasyou~~~

"What makes me sound young to you ... because you don't understand me?" ... NO, not that. I actually DO understand you.

"You can't face the fact that people fail. Good people. Smart people." ... No, not that either.

You sound young to me because you ARE young to me! LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I am 20 years older than you. If you were speaking to someone 20 years your junior, wouldn't they sound young to you?? And, saying you sound young is certainly NO insult! Heck, I'm jealous you're so young.

Why did you take that remark as an insult?

"I am not the evil depraved person you all think I am." ...... No , you're not any more depraved than the rest of us. I don't think you are evil or depraved ... did you read those words about you here?

Why not answer the other question I asked you .... go back and re-read my previous post.

Why don't you seek out a healthier relationship? A relationship with someone who is strong and morally correct? I think you are worth more than being some married man's "side dish".

If he wanted a divorce, he'd be doing that.

Please ... treat YOURSELF better than this. You have a lot to offer a man. Pick someone who has everything to give back to you. This guy is using you.

Best of luck ...

Pepper (the elder) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Confusedasyou -

I dont think any of us think youre evil etc. Youre certainly made of the same stuff we are - unless youre from another galaxy.

Here this and think about what pepper and others have said - its a true story from Oprah with Dr Phil.....

A woman rang to say she had an affair with a MM.
Dr Phil asked when it started,
she said when she was 20.
He asked when it ended,
she said when she was 40.
He asked, why did it go on for so long?
she said, now get this confused -

BECAUSE HE KEPT TELLING HER, FOR 20 YEARS, THAT HE WAS GOING TO LEAVE HIS WIFE AND MARRY HER <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Dr Phil asked one final question - and this is the bit I want you to take seriously even tho its pretty funny.....

WHERE ARE YOU AT WITH THE EASTER BUNNY???

For the best part of her life, and 20 years of it I might add, years that were meant for falling in love with a lifetime partner and having children, were stolen from her because she didnt protect herself. She probably wont ever have children now. And you wonder how she could have been so foolish? He would have convinced her day after day, month after month, year after flippin year that SHE was the only one he wanted, meantime his life went on, hers was on hold. Youre still young. Dont set yourself up now with regrets.

Think about it Confused, she was in a similar boat, and dont say your situation is unique, you'll find its hauntingly similar, that I can guarantee!

The patterns in your life will be set for your daughter if youre not wise in the choices you make. I know you feel lonely, heck I do too, we all do, we're here to help you thru it. You WILL find a decent guy who will be clean and come with the goods you need to have a happy and healthy marriage. Its going to hurt like hell, but youve got to think real seriously about how much you could be ripping yourself off of a wonderful future.

Dancer

[ July 24, 2002, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: Dancer ]

I have read the entire thread. Although it seems the focus is now on confused I am replying to the original question.

Why do we want recovery? I love my H there is no other reason. I hate what he did. I hate the pain he caused me and the problems he caused in our relationship. Our marriage was not perfect we had problems before his A but they were pebbles compared to the problems we are battling now.

I stayed with H for no reason other than I love him. It would have been much easier to walk away from our marriage. Truth is I would have been better off in many ways. However I chose to stand and fight for my marriage. I didn't have to battle the OW. The day she found out he was married she kick him to the curb. Did I get my H by default, no I don't believe so. He could have walked out the door and not looked back. He begged me to give him another chance. I made the decision to do so because I love him.

We are rebuilding our marriage. We have a long way to go but we are determined. I know the road is long and very rocky but I also know that because of the love I have for my H, there is no other road I'd rather be traveling.

Love....That's the only reason I want recovery. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Well…I am going to reply to the original thread as well.

I am the BS. I am male of 30yrs old and we have no kids and we have been married 4yrs. I have done research on affairs, read about every book and for the first three months after D/day I wanted to repair my marriage. However, after several weeks of thinking…I think I have made the decision to move on without my W, even though she now says she wants to work on it. Here are my reasons…

I set some guidelines in place about three months ago that I would need to see from my wife. The first being true remorse. To this day she has never apologized to my face and has only sad that she was sorry once or twice in an email. When I ask her why she now wants to work on the marriage and two or three months ago she didn’t; her response is that the changes I have made make her think that I am someone she could like. When I ask her what changes she is making she says she doesn’t need to make any. I have tried multiple times to get her to understand that I was a miserable person to be with because of the relationship we shared and that she contributed to that failure. If she is going to come back as the same person…it won’t work. I still think she thinks the only reason she had an affair was because I was a bad husband. She has a very difficult time taking ownership for the failures in our marriage.

Some other reasons…life is too short to spend it with someone who is capable of causing me this much pain. I don’t want to go through the rest of my life with a wife that had such little disregard for me that she was able to hurt me in the worse way possible. I don’t want the shadow of her affair always hanging over us. I don’t want go through life thinking that I am second best, and that only reason she is her is because the OM went back to wife. I do care for her a lot and I do hate to end in divorce. However, the thought of going through life miserable is even more of a threat. She has been gone from the house almost 6 months, and I can honestly say that I don’t miss her. I know that sounds cold…but our relationship was so bad, that I am actually glad she is out. I now enjoy going home. I actually look forward to getting up in the morning. I actually look forward to life, and I look forward to the new chapter in my life that I will be opening. I have learned so much from this experience. I wish I could have learned this without the pain and the destruction of a marriage. However, there are thousands of women out there and I am going to make one of them a great husband and life partner….not only great, but the best.

I am not going to rush into a divorce. However, I am going to ask that we start moving that way. Seperating assets and debt and moving from there. If it is meant to be that we stay together it will happen. If not, we will both move on.

[ July 25, 2002, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: waiting and wanting ]