Plan B anger on part of WH - normal? - Marriage Builders® Forums

I went to plan B on October 10th following d-day #2 and continued contact and lying. I really had reached a low point.

I sent the plan B letter and have not heard from my WH except on the day of my father's surgery last Friday. I emailed back with a brief thank you for thinking of us.

On Saturday, WH's sister called to ask me how I was and what was I thinking since the divorce was likely proceeding. WH's father had called her that morning and told her that WH had told him we were getting a divorce (news to me) and asking fot the name of an attorney. I told WH's sister that this was the first I had heard something definitive like that and that I was really taken aback he would raise this with his father first. WH's sister was also under the impression that WH had portrayed the need to divorce as my fault and that he had definitely failed to mention he was in an ongoing A.

WH's sister called him several times to tell him that she was unhappy that he was continuing to lie. I left a VM (I know bad plan B, but I felt like I needed to put this on the table) letting him know that I was not angry, but taken aback that he would discuss D with father before talking to me. Also said that I don't want this to me acrimonious and that we needed to talk if he was going to proceed with this.

WH is ANGRY. Sent a very angry email to his sister accusing of her betraying him and how dare she even talk to me. (Never mind that he's been discussing this with his father). Sister is very upset and said that she thinks WH is deflecting anger on to her to continue to mask the fact that he is dishonest with family. Sister also told me that she thinks WH is trying to "shove me over the edge" and get me to file the D so that he can blame me for this/get pity. She also said that she thinks he hates himself and doesn't want me to love him/cannot accept it.

This is very frustrating to be in no contact, but I suppose it is best and is protecting me from his anger. I do not plan to leave any more messages and have told WH's sister that I do not want her in the middle of any of this.

Is this type of anger normal for a WS in plan B? If he really wants a D, why doesn't he call and tell me?

most of my recent story

Is this type of anger normal for a WS in plan B?
Very normal. It's because they are not in total control of everything.

If he really wants a D, why doesn't he call and tell me?
Why should he? (think logically, not emotionally)
No reason for him to. Technically he can get a lawyer, file and never even have to talk to you the entire time.

Also, if he does talk to you, he is having to deal with you and the situation which is what most ws do not want. It's easier on the conscience to NOT deal with it.

His sister is right on the money. Bingo. And ditto Chris.

It seems that almost all WSs have some sort of emotional reaction to Plan B. It seems to come out of left field to them and be a complete surprise. Anger is a common reaction.

I recommend you maintain no contact in classic Plan B style. Leave his family to their own devices and only answer questions from them honestly.

I strongly recommend you let HIM initiate divorce procedings. If it comes to pass, you'll be guilt free in NOT starting that process.

Bottom line, he's reading right from the WS script. Nothing you described was unique.

Good luck.

[ November 05, 2002, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]

Hi Unsureheart,

Yes, the anger is very typical WS reaction of Plan B.

My H was extremely angry. He sent emails saying that I was manipulating him with these "PLANS" and the idea of following a PLAN was not a genuine expression of my feelings.

He said he realized that I was trying to keep from losing all my love for him by going to Plan B, but he wanted to know what about his diminishing love for me if there was no contact. And wasn't I worried about THAT.

He basically tried a gamet of things (guilt, anger, manipulation) to pull me out of Plan B. all unsuccessful. Altho, I will admit to slipping a couple of times, but then going right back to no-contact.

I think it was Mother Hubbard (long time poster) who once said "when in Plan B, the WS is simply experiencing the consequences of their actions". I mean, isn't this what they wanted?

Take care of yourself, be strong. I promise you it does get better.

Love,
Jo

This phenomenon is laughable but not funny. Everything about this thing of ours makes me scratch my head. You'd think that there would be differences in experience, but time and time again the same things happen to us all.

You'd think that there would be differences in experience, but time and time again the same things happen to us all.
Which is why Harley can say with a very high degree of probably that xxx will happen if you do yyy.

Chris -- Interesting comment that they feel this anger because they are not in control of everything. I think that is a particularly appropriate comment in relation to my WH. He keeps telling me that he thinks everyone is always telling him what to do and that he isn't living his own life. I told him early on in this that I recognized that I needed to be less in control and have done a very good job of not telling him what to do for many months now. He feels pressure from others that I cannot do anything about. I think it's a common thread with many of the WS.

WAT -- Had to laugh when you stated that it's right from the WS script. I am continuously amazed by how similar many stories here are and the similarity of the WS reactions. For some reason though right now, there aren't many posting about being in plan B and so having the ones that have been through this, such as you, Chris and Resilient, is very helpful to me. Sometimes it just seems important to me to know that my situation is not unique and that I am not alone.

Resilient -- Thank you. It does help to hear that things will get better. I recognize that better may not be getting back together, which some days is hard to swallow. On the other hand, I certainly did not like how things have been, so I guess any change is better. I am so afraid of getting a divorce and I don't know that I understand why other than it seems so wrong.

Whippit -- To the outside world (those not directly experiencing an A and its outfall/after effects), what both the WS and the BS are doing seems crazy. I am such a rational person that it took me several weeks to get to a point where I could honestly say that I won't even try to make sense of some of this behavior (mine or his). It just is what it is. I don't have to like it or understand it, but I have to accept it. It's crazy-making sometimes for me.

I do appreciate everyone's response. I can't say I fully comprehend this anger and blame that is being directed at me or WH's sister since we are not in cahoots or whatever WH seems to be thinking. It appears to me that WH doesn't want to face anything right now although I think he has tried in the past and it was just too frightening to him or too overwhelming. That part of it I can understand. He is a successful person in his professional life and this has threatened that and his personal life, but he cannot seem to reconcile that it was his choices that set off this spiraling of events.

I think even if he were to recognize that maybe his M was worth saving he would have a hard time seeing how to get there. I know he will not talk to Steve or Jenn and thinks these books are "a crock".

At some point though, this anger and irrational behavior does make it easier to be in plan B and easier for me to contemplate life without WH. If this is the "new WH", I don't think I can respect him or love him. I don't necessarily want the old WH (or the old me either for that matter), but this version of WH is not someone I can be attracted to and sustain a life with anyway.

Today I get an email from WH saying: I am feeling overwhelmed and don't know where to start. I want to communicate with you but am not ready but think I will be by next week and will try and get in touch with you over the weekend or early next week.

I am going out of town this weekend on a badly needed trip with friends to Las Vegas to celebrate a friend's successful (so far) battle with breast cancer. I have not told WH that I'm going out of town since I am in plan B.

If I am in plan B, do I not respond at all to him? Or, do I respond that I will be willing to talk to him if he has ended his relationship?

I'm not really clear here what I am supposed to do if he is trying to contact me to discuss divorce. Since I left that message last weekend (stupidly I admit), I probably left him with the impression that if he wants to discuss a D then call me.

If he does want a divorce, isn't it better to talk in person than to wait to be served papers? I'm just so confused as to what is the right approach here. But, this may all be silly questioning in my mind because he may just be saying this to stall (for what I don't know) and won't contact me next week.

Any thoughts about how I should handle this?

Hi unsure...

Ignore it...

If he wants to reach you next week he will and worry about what it is all about then. I doubt anything will change over the next few days.

In the meantime go to Las Vegas with your girlfriends and try to relax and have a good time.

You deserve it.

E

Hi again UnsureHeart,

IMO you are not to contact him. Even tho you think you may have initiated his contact in response to yours, you still DO NOT contact him.

The idea behind Plan B is you are do your best to stop concentrating on him and the relationship, and start concentrating on just YOU honey.

The email he sent you pulled you right back into the Triangle, and now you are worrying about what HE might do.

Just let this email go without a response from you. It doesn't need one. If you have sent your Plan B letter, he KNOWS what it will take for you to be there for him. He knows you love him, he knows you are willing to rebuild, and he knows the ball is in his court.

I know how hard this is, I slipped when my H threatened D and I got all caught back up in the Triangle, it was like D-day all over again. And all he really wanted was to see if I was still there for him to meet his sub-set of needs I was meeting. With the OW meeting the others.

No contact, you can do it! NO CONTACT.

Lv,
Jo

Elad -- Thank you. By the way, we have dinner reservations at Valentino's at the Venetian on Sunday night. Thank you for the suggestion. We're going to try and get there early enough to go on the gondolas.

Resilient -- Thank you for your insight. You are so right that this sucked me back into the triangle. I was feeling pretty good about no contact last night. I wasn't crying as I had been. I went to a make up counter and had a makeover as I'm not a big make up woman and wanted to look nice while I'm in Vegas (and I'm going to be with two women who look like supermodels/I need some assistance). I was feeling ok about me. Then, boom, I get this email today and start wondering what's going on. What should I do? What is he thinking? Ugh.

I do think they all have a secret manual that is transmitted to them via satellite or something. How is it that human nature in these circumstances is so predictable?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by unsureheart:

I do think they all have a secret manual that is transmitted to them via satellite or something. How is it that human nature in these circumstances is so predictable?<hr /></blockquote>Sounds about right, Hon. Harley did his homeswork regarding human nature in relationships.

Personally, I also think the WS knows the BS very well from being together for so long. They instintively feel us seriously pulling away, even without any contact. So they test the waters. But we (BS) don't get those VIBES too well any longer because they are acting like an ALIEN, and have an OP invading our space in their brain. Sounds like Voo Doo, but somewhere in there I think there's a close-to-truth analysis.

When I think of WS i see this:

A WS sitting on a fence, watering the wrong side of the lawn, eating cake in the FOG.

Keep posting when you need it, Unsure.

Lv,
Jo

Hi unsure...

You will love the Venetian...and I am sure you will have a great meal at Valentino's. Make sure you check out the ceilings while wandering around the Venetian they are incredible...

I thought the gondola rides were a bit overpriced and not really my cup of tea, although I must say I did watch for awhile...and the gondoliers do sing pretty well(most of them).

BTW--Resilient knows what she is talking about..she always gives sensible advice...glad to see she has chimed in here.

BTW2--about that makeover...there is a Sephora's right next to the Venetian...pop in and have them do a makeover while you are there...

And yes, damn it, I am a guy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ...I just know stuff about shopping and places like Sephora's...so there! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Have a great time...

E

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Elad:
BTW2--about that makeover...there is a Sephora's right next to the Venetian...pop in and have them do a makeover while you are there...

And yes, damn it, I am a guy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ...I just know stuff about shopping and places like Sephora's...so there! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Have a great time...E<hr /></blockquote>LOL ..... I'm so glad you clarified that ... phhhheeew!

I dunno Elad, I personally think it's cool you are so aware of things females like to do. And, oh ..... Does this font make my BUTT look big? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Jo

[ November 07, 2002, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]

Just wanted to post to you as I finally got through Plan B and now very early into recovery. My FWH got angry about Plan B as well. He was bewildered and didn't believe it. Got offended and did kind of fly back into OW's arms. Then reality hit. He always said he never wanted to be with her, even if we broke up, he wouldn't be with her...fog talk to make me feel better?>?

Anyway, when he wants to talk to you, he will. My FWH decided in his mind he wanted to come back, end the A etc. but sent me this email that he was giving up, etc. This is all very, very typical.

Have fun in Vegas and hang in there. The fact that he is responding IMHO is only good for you.

ditto Jo and Elad - let me add just one point:

When your H contacts you (assuming it's not about divorce) allow him to speak - if he catches you on the phone. If he desires conversation, a visit, or any other interaction, simply reply that he needs to re-read your Plan B letter. If he's willing to abide by your conditions, you'll communicate with him. If not, tell him you're not communicating with him because it's too painful for you. Hopefully you said this in your letter. Emphasize your discomfort and pain, which of course, is the whole reason for Plan B - to isolate you from him to protect your remaining love.

If he e-mails, it's easier: simply reply stating to re-read the letter and attach it if you have it electronically. Either meet the conditions, or leave you alone. Again, emphasize the discomfort and pain you experience communicating with him while the affair is still ongoing. Sign your message, "I love you," or whatever is normal for you.

Good luck.

Resilient said: I dunno Elad, I personally think it's cool you are so aware of things females like to do. Does this font make my BUTT look big?

You crack me up, Jo...I'm guessing your butt looks just fine <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

As for knowing all that stuff...probably comes from having a high maintenance W...I sure did enjoy it, though... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

And evidently I learned some things...I think that may make me interesting to some woman in the future if life comes to that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Sorry unsure...didn't mean to hijack your thread...

E

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by worthatry:
If he e-mails, it's easier: simply reply stating to re-read the letter and attach it if you have it electronically. Either meet the conditions, or leave you alone. Again, emphasize the discomfort and pain you experience communicating with him while the affair is still ongoing. Sign your message, "I love you," or whatever is normal for you.

Good luck.<hr /></blockquote>Unsure, I don't think WAT meant for you to say or type the above bolded words to your H. I believe WAT was just reinforcing your Plan B stand. Is that correct WAT?

Well, sorta. Jo is right, it shouldn't sound like an ultimatum, but it really is.

I guess a good way to say it would be something like this:

H, I love you and I am ready to work on our marriage and discuss our future together, but I cannot do this under the present conditions as I explained in my letter. It is simply too painful for me. Please re-read my letter and get back to me if you're ready to work on our marriage. I love you. unsureheart

What do ya think Jo? Elad? Chris?

WAT

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by worthatry:
Well, sorta. Jo is right, it shouldn't sound like an ultimatum, but it really is.

I guess a good way to say it would be something like this:

H, I love you and I am ready to work on our marriage and discuss our future together, but I cannot do this under the present conditions as I explained in my letter. It is simply too painful for me. Please re-read my letter and get back to me if you're ready to work on our marriage. I love you. unsureheart

What do ya think Jo? Elad? Chris?

WAT<hr /></blockquote>"YES", it's very good IMO. It reiterates the Plan B letter content but in an abridged version. And telling your spouse that contact is painful while the A continues IS recommended by Harley. Always use "I Feel ..." statements. You are simply being honest about how you feel. Good WAT.

Lv,
Jo

Elad & Resilient -- I think Elad should take Resilient and I to NYC and help us get makeovers, new underwear, etc. All y'all crack me up. BTW Elad -- these skills will certainly make you attractive. Hopefully to your WW. You know I think she really has been abducted by aliens to give up a guy who is willing to go shopping and thinks it's fun.

Anne -- Thank you for posting to me. It does help to hear from others that have gone down this road before me. I hope I can say that the outcome will be some form of recovery (either the restoration and enhancement of my M or my acceptance and ability to thrive in my next R).

WAT -- As usual, good advice. Thank you.

I tell you what, assuming I get that makeover at Sephora, I'll try and get a digital pic taken while we're there and put it on the MB photo thread. Thank you all for posting to me. It helps me so much.

WAT, Resilient, Elad and Anne (and others) -- One last thing I'm not really clear on and would like some advice.

If he calls and says he wants to talk, I think I'm clear that I tell him what resilient and WAT have suggested regarding my plan B. However, if he says in response to that, I want to talk because I want a D, do I say ok? I am assuming in that circumstance the best thing to say if he responds that way is that I do not want a D, but understand I cannot make decisions for another person. Further, that I would be willing to talk, but that I set the date and time? Is this correct?

I want to be prepared, but I don't want to over-think this conversation. So, maybe the best course of action if he does go the route I've described above is to thank him for being honest and that I'll have to think about what he has said and get back to him (and then come post here and seek advice at that time).

I promise I will stop focusing on this after tonight. Tonight I plan to put loud motown music on, drink some good wine and pack all my new me clothes up for my trip.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by unsureheart:
WAT, Resilient, Elad and Anne (and others) -- One last thing I'm not really clear on and would like some advice.

If he calls and says he wants to talk, I think I'm clear that I tell him what resilient and WAT have suggested regarding my plan B. However, if he says in response to that, I want to talk because I want a D, do I say ok? I am assuming in that circumstance the best thing to say if he responds that way is that I do not want a D, but understand I cannot make decisions for another person. Further, that I would be willing to talk, but that I set the date and time? Is this correct?

I want to be prepared, but I don't want to over-think this conversation. So, maybe the best course of action if he does go the route I've described above is to thank him for being honest and that I'll have to think about what he has said and get back to him (and then come post here and seek advice at that time).

I promise I will stop focusing on this after tonight. Tonight I plan to put loud motown music on, drink some good wine and pack all my new me clothes up for my trip.<hr /></blockquote>Let him know D isn't what you want and that you love him ... then in a Plan A way, remind him of your Plan B letter. Then courteously say good-bye and hang-up.

Unsure, you don't have to have contact with your H to help him decide on a D. You don't necessarily have to have contact with him even if a D is filed. Plan B is not a pressure tactic to get him to DO anything. Plan B is for YOU, so you can detach, and start moving on with your life. It's to keep the love you have left in a safe place before you lose it all for him from the on-going A. Plan B is just for YOU and YOU alone

Right WAT and Elad?

If your H contacts you to tell you he wants a D, then he must do ALL the dirty work. It's HIS deal. You should do your best to respond without LBs, and try to cut it as short as possible.

Go to Vegas, put this out of your mind. And have a good time. Be extra good to yourself. You have been through ALOT and deserve some happiness.

Lv,
Jo

[ November 07, 2002, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]

You there, Unsure?

Jo

Hi Resilient -- Thanks. Yes, I'm here, but I had to actually do some work for a change today <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by unsureheart:
Hi Resilient -- Thanks. Yes, I'm here, but I had to actually do some work for a change today <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>Okay, good. Same here, need to get some work done. You have a safe but fun trip to Lost Wages, and post when you return. Do your level best not to worry about stuff.

We'll be here when you return and will save your spot. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Lv,
Jo

Thanks Resilient -- I really appreciate your posting to me and your thoughts. I plan to have a great weekend and will check in when I get back.

Hi unsure

You have received good advice from Jo & Dave...

As I have told my WW many times I will not file for a D I don't want...and, I think this is important, for both USH and Elad:

Don't do anything that will hasten a divorce you do not want....

Jo is right...like she usually is...put this out of your mind and go have a great time in Las Vegas...this will all be here when you get back...

E

I had a wonderful weekend in Las Vegas with friends and my sister. Many good meals and many good laughs.

I returned to a few surprises. My WH has changed the online access to our investment accounts. I had tried to log in to handle a retirement plan rollover and was locked out of the account. Then, I got a change in marital status form from his health insurance carrier to be filled out and signed by WH. I was more than a little freaked out. Then I heard that WH was not on the leave of absence from work that he is supposedly on due to his A with an employee. WH has also not responded either directly or through intermediary about some financial matters that need attention this month.

I am trying hard not to think about all of this, but am more than a bit frustrated that WH is able to effect me through these other actions or non-actions.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Unsureheart contact an attorney as soon as possible and find out what you can do to regain your rights to those investment accounts. A letter from your attorney could be just the trick to make your H stop this foolishness.

Good luck and God bless.

Thanks TMCM -- I met with an attorney this morning. WH responded through our third party that he had not meant to shut me out of the account, but had not been able to remember the access information and had called and had it changed. I don't know what to believe, but I did find out that he can't touch my accounts and can only touch our joint account. I'm a little calmer now.

WH also indicated that he would be dropping by the papers/bills I requested next week while I am at work and would come take care of some the yard work then too.

I can't help but sit here and think that he is proceeding with a D without telling me. I know I cannot control that and can only control how I act or react and am doing my best to not focus on this.

I still feel incredibly sad. Actually, I have very mixed emotions about everything. Part of me sees that WH has become somebody I don't know if I could really love anymore. Part of me still holds out hope and the belief that we could have a better R and M if we tried.

I do wonder how long I can sit in this limbo state. Not that I'm sitting around. I have more focus at work the past two weeks and am scheduling activities with friends.

I do miss him (or at least the parts of my WH that are loving and kind and I know are still lodged somewhere in that soul).

I recognize that Harley says you should go to plan B before all your love is gone and I do think it was the best decision for me at the time, but it doesn't really lessen the fact that I miss many things about WH and still love him very much.

The start of the weekend is always hard. Most of my friends are married with young children and are not available to go to movies, etc. I still have some hang-ups about dining alone and going to the movies alone. I think I need to find some volunteer activity for the weekend so that I feel like I'm contributing to something.

I felt good this morning so I don't know why I'm feeling a bit melancholy right now.

Hi USH, ditto what TMCM said. He's obviously in midst of full blow A fog.

I'm glad you enjoyed your Vegas w/e. Where did you stay?

Hey Seahorse -- I've been wondering how you are doing? As for Vegas. We stayed at Caesars Palace and spent most of our time at Caesars, Bellagio and the Venetian. We went to a Cirque du Soleil show that was absolutely incredible (and makes me feel very out of shape, but I don't think my body could bend like that even when I was 7 years old and thin as a bean pole). Many good dinners at Aqua, Valentino's, and Tsunami (I love sushi and the cucumber martinis there). I actually won $200 which was fun, but we only played black jack one night and didn't again (because none of us is loaded with cash and gambling isn't my big thing). We also went to a spa and had massages, facials, and body scrubs. That was really decadent and fun.

How are you? I should go check out your other thread. I've been wondering about your dog. What kind of dog is she? I have a cat and have been thinking about getting a dog. I grew up with golden retrievers and labs and they are so affectionate and loyal.

[ November 15, 2002, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: unsureheart ]

hey USH
dont have a lot to contribute to your thread I'm afraid... just wanted to say, I'm thinking of you and I'm so sorry for the situ you're in at the moment. Maybe it's time for the ol' plan B, just to make sure your last bit of love doesnt evaporate..?
take care of youself
N

[ November 15, 2002, 05:41 PM: Message edited by: Nick123 ]

Hi USH, I remember Ceaser's palace, it was very nice (and very big from what I remember).

I did not gamble once in Vegas, so when I got to the airport I decided that I would at least put a dollar in one of the poker machines. I kept putting it in and the darn thing kept spitting it out. i tried 5 times and it wouldn't let me, so I guess I just wasn't meant to gamble in Vegas. Maybe next time...

When the financial stuff is finalised I'm going to set a little aside and plan a trip through some of South America. It will be end of next year as that will give me time to learn some more Spanish. If I do make it, I will reserve a spot for us by the the beach in Mexico and order a couple of Fluffy Ducks, OK?

I know the Dv stuff is scary. Even if we were all there with you, you would still have to go through this alone, do you know what I mean? God is there, but sometimes its just plain scarey.

My dog is a boxer. He's white. Boxers are good fun, they are the eternal puppy! This morning I was trying to do my yoga and he kept pushing his nose into me and pushing me over. All in good fun!

just wanted to give my 2 cents on Plan B.

Plan B means no contact. If H wants to contact you about anything (his day, work, accounts, a divorce, whatever) you should not be in contact with him. I like the response the others have given you about reiterating that he reread the Plan B letter.

In your Plan B letter, you specified what exactly your H must do, what actual actions he must take, in order for you to resume contact, and work on M, recovery, etc. Addtionally, you don't want to take H back too soon (without him meeting the requirements of the Plan B letter) and having the A start yet again.

So unless H actually does what you specifically laid out in the letter, there should be no contact.

Otherwise, it is not really Plan B and H will believe that the boundaries you set and all words but aren't really there.

Plus, you will continue to focus on H which will eat away at your remaining love (which will hinder you both if he does come around) and will delay you healing and getting used to life without him if that does happen.

I am not in Plan B and am just giving my 2 cents from reading other's posts here about Plan B over the past few months (in case I ever have to do it.)

I'm glad you had a good time in Vegas. I gotta go one of these days myself.

I thought your point on you (and others outside the situation) understanding the craziness of WS and ALSO BS! was interesting. Most people I know think I should move on already and get a divorce. A big part of me is telling me that maybe I'm sticking this out (the Plan A/B thing) is just to help me fall out of love so that the divorce is easier. How sad is that!?

Well, hang in there unsureheart. If anyone can do it, you can. You've come so far and have been very strong.

take care.

Hi unsure...

I am glad to hear you had a good time in LV and I am sorry you had to return to your current cirumstances...

USH said: I still feel incredibly sad. Actually, I have very mixed emotions about everything. Part of me sees that WH has become somebody I don't know if I could really love anymore. Part of me still holds out hope and the belief that we could have a better R and M if we tried.

I know exactly how you feel. I feel the same alot about my WW. I don't have any good answersor advice...

The way I handle it is to just try to be patient and try to let her work out some things in her own mind. The difference at the moment is my WW does have the added distraction of an OP.

The only thing I can recommend is to continue doing what you are doing. I know it is sad and hurtful to think about your WH and what he is putting you thru so focus on all the good stuff you have done for yourself and continue to do that.

You are stronger than you think....

Take care

E

[ November 18, 2002, 09:08 AM: Message edited by: Elad ]

Nick123 -- Thank you for checking in with me. I am in plan B and I guess I should have clarified that the contact about the finances was through our third party intermediary. I had one lapse early on (about three weeks into plan B) when his sister called me and I left a voice mail message, but didn't speak to him. I did, unfortunately, have another lapse last night that I'll cover at the end of this post, but again, I didn't actually speak to him or see him.

I have not seen or spoken to WH since the day I hand delivered by plan B letter. It is very hard and I do miss him. I will say, however, that it has helped my mental state to be removed from him for the last six weeks. Each day gets a bit less challenging and I think I will be ok if we head for a divorce. Not what I want, but every day seems more likely.

I know that you are struggling with putting your foot down hard again and I wish I had some sage words of wisdom for you. Each situation is so personal and we all have images in our heads about the WS and what we would do but it's not the same as experiencing it first hand/day-to-day.

aanast -- I read your post on planA/plan B yesterday and I will go over there shortly to post to your specific situation. I know you know what I am going through and it helps to have you here. Thank you.

Seahorse - You know you are my hero even in light of the latest babble from your WH. He's now put his head so far up his rump that I'm not sure it can be extracted without professional assistance which he seems unwilling to do.

I love boxers (the dog that is, well also have that as a men's underwear preference). My very best friend that grew up next door to me had a boxer when we were growing up and she has one now.

As for South America, I think that is a great goal for a trip. If you really are serious about this I can put you in touch with one of my favorite people on the planet that is in Patagonia now for the next six weeks and travels to South America quite a bit. He also used to work in Australia. My WH also used to climb in South America and has climbing friends that can provide some travel tips.

For me personally, sometimes when I am feeling down it helps me to focus on trip that is an adventure and far enough into the future that I can dream a bit about what I will do, etc (and how I will possibly pay for it). The three trips that are dreams right now are sea kayaking in New Zealand, sea kayaking in Alaska/any trip to Alaska, and going back to Africa. Can't afford any of these at the moment, but am saving my pennies. At a minimum I will go to New York City soon to see my sister and family and try and go to a show and see friends.

Elad -- Thank you for the vote of confidence. Some days I do feel strong and others a complete basket case.

Last night was a good example. I was feeling fine and having one of those evening where I thought the future was bright and I would be fine no matter what the outcome of my marriage. Then, at about 9:30 p.m. I went into the laundry room to take clothing out of the dryer and floor was squishy beneath my feet. I couldnt' figure out where the water was coming from but it had completely saturated the laundry room floor and sub-flooring and was seeping into the kitchen floor. I finally figured out that my hot water heater was leaking badly.

I got the intake valve for the water shut off but could not for the life of me get the gas/pilot off. I also was struggling to drain the heater with a hose and some buckets. I started to cry because I felt very alone and it hit me hard that WH was probably somewhere having fun with OW. I called WH to tell him that the water heater had broken down and that I needed some help (by this point it was 10 p.m.). No answer. I then called my neighbor who graciously came over and used a crescent wrench to get the gas off.

I could have called an emergency plumber, but it seemed so expensive and I knew it could wait until morning if I could get the water and gas off and soak up as much water as I could. Finally, at about 11:00 p.m. things seemed under control. I called WH again to tell him not to worry (not that he was) and that I'd get a plumber out in the a.m. to repair or replace the heater.

Unfortunately, the leak and water pressure had caused the heater to split and it had to be replaced to the tune of $900. No surprise. WH has not called back. I guess I should be thankful for that.

On a positive note, I did get up at 3:30 a.m. here in order to watch the Leonid meteor shower. It was really fun to lie down on a blanket in the back yard and watch the tiny streaks in the sky. I've never seen a meteor before and it isn't something I would normally do, but I thought, I need some magic and inspiration in my life and some inkling of beauty in the universe after tonight.

Hi USH, there's always something else that will go wrong in the middle of the mess, I think its God's way of making us prove to ourselves we can cope. I don't know.

I missed H too in Plan B, I hated it. Just be there for yourself, you seem to keep pretty busy so you'll be OK.

I love Boxers, I think I will probably always have a boxer, or a Sheepdog...

I am serious about Sth America, but it won't be until end of next year. It will be something to keep me going for the next bit of the journey, plus I have to start back on my Spanish again.

How are you last few days?

I believe that your WH may feel the same about missing you. Surely, his life isnt all roses now, and he remembers your good sides too.... his volunteering to do yard work could be seen in this light.

Are you sure he understood your plan B message? or could he have read it as "it's over - I officially kick you out now"? maybe, over the next weeks when you see him (paper stuff, yardwork) you should tell him the way to the door back in. SOmething along the lines of "you know, it's not too late" or "we could all have it back - only if we tried" or something. no pleading, but simply showing that there's a way back.

N

Hiya USH, how are you doing?