I have been married for 2 ½ years and don't know how to deal with my husbands emotional problems. It is now to the point where I am ready to call it quits. For starters, my husband is addicted to Internet Porn. Apparently he was into this even before we met. This makes me feel like he is not happy with my appearance, and I am not good enough for him. To make matters worse, I have two friends whose husbands cheated on them with women they met on the internet. I fear that my husband may be headed in this same direction. I don't think he would ever cheat on me, but who ever does?? Within a few months of marriage I found out he had joined a couple of romance / singles web groups. He had even printed off profiles of a couple women in our area. When I confronted him, he was very remorseful and said that he didn't know why he had done it. He also has secret e-mail counts on hotmail that he won't let me see. He says they are for junk mail. He also chats with other women on ICQ. When I asked him if they know he is married, he says they do. But when I look up the chat history, he doesn't bother mentioning that fact, and he has even exchanged pictures with a couple of people. He says it is all innocent, and I really want to believe him, but I don't know that I do. My husband has also been out of work for three months, and has a serious depression problem. He wastes most of the day, stays up half the night, and sleeps until 10:00 a.m. I don't think he is trying very hard to find a job, and he gets mad at me for nagging him. We can't make it on my income, and are having to use my credit card on occasion. I am so stressed out I don't even want to deal with his problems. I just want him to leave. I feel like life would be so much easier if I was on my own again. HELP.

I think you know that he already is cheating on the marriage even if he hasn't hooked up with someone physically. He is devaluing and dishonoring your marriage vows by emotionally investing in these other women. More than likely, these other women are pacifying a deep sense of loneliness that is being made worse by his unemployment. He may already be a lonely person and the unemployment eats away and devistates a man. I am sure these other women paying this kind of attention is making up for some of this dignity he has lost from being out of work.<P>Did you know anything was wierd or different about him before you married? Or is this totally out of character?

I knew he had conversations with women on ICQ because he had a chat unknowingly with someone who knew me. I didn't realize what a big problem it actually was until shortly after we were married. I have confronted him several times, but he claims it is all innocent. As for the internet porn, I have confronted him on numerous occations, but he says it is an addiction that he is trying to quit. He also says that I have obviously never been addicted to something, and I don't know what he is going through.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cindiwa:<BR><B>He also says that I have obviously never been addicted to something, and I don't know what he is going through.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>This is sort of true and I know what he is saying. He is being honest with you in that it is an addiction. I don't think women have any idea just how easy, compelling and wonderful pornography makes a man feel. On the other hand, it is fraught with guilt because we know it's wrong. However, the allure of it is very overwhelming. Men can't seem to get away from sex because just glancing at the magazine racks at Wal-Mart this morning I saw numerous examples of beautiful and sexy women. Airbrushed? Yes. But still beautiful. So, we are attacked on every front just about.<P>I am not sure whether your H is a Christian or not. I am one. I realized that while it may be normal for a man to have attraction to pornography, it is wrong because it dishonors himself and his marriage. Much prayer is required for me in order to fight it. It is a constant battle for me. I can't let up because if I did, I would be immersed in it.<P>It is no light thing.<P>How do you feel about your husband?<BR>What do you think about your husband's honesty?<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><P>How do you feel about your husband?<BR>What do you think about your husband's honesty?<P>[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I really love my husband. I believe that he loves me. We are both Christian and believe that pornography is wrong. He has had problems with it for at least 6 years, maybe more. I do not think he would ever have an affair per say, but I do believe he likes talking to women over the internet. He says it is all innocent, but I truly believe he misleads them into thinking he is a single man. If I were single woman, I would not be looking to chat with a married man. It seems like every time I talk to him about my frustrations he tries to turn it around on me by bringing up things I do that he does not like. (That's a whole new story.) Anyway, I trust that my husband would never have an affair, but I feel that he cheats in his heart. I know that he loves me, but he has a lot of problems. He does not love himself. I don't know how long it will take him to get over his problems, and I'm not sure how long I want to wait. <P>

Dear Cindiwa,<P>Porn can be very adictive and many good Christian men have to really fight the porn lure. Porn objectifies women and make women one dimensional, and men who use porn alot would be far easier to be fall into affairs than those who don't. There are some good Christian articles about porn on the net and I thnk if you type in search words as Gospel, or christian views, etc.. you may be able to get links into good articles that illustrates how porn and adultery often go hand in hand.<P>I believe that there are many underlying issues that you may need to address with the help of a marital counsellor or a church pastor trained in that. Issues such as trust, communications, acceptable boundaries, addiction to porn, etc., can be discussed. If you are already thinking of leaving him, why don't you try to get him to work this out with you, for the sake of your children?<P>I was exactly like you in my trust for my H. I had 110% trust that he will never stray because he said he will never and we had what he termed a golden marriage and I a golden find to him. We had almost everything going for us but one pissed drunk night, he was set upon by his nymphomaniac staff and when he wanted out after that first night, the banshee (it caused my father to have chest pains and my father was hospitalised an died soon after) blackmailed WS to continue for 2 years. It ended when the banshee knived him in public and was incarcerated.<P>So it is never say never to me. Your H is already behaving in a very dishounorable manner by way of the cyber emotional affairs.<P>You can win him back to a path in the light - he really needs to feel he is valuable and if it is fantasy that he wants in his sex life, may be you can ask him what he likes and try to fulfill some for him?<P>I hope you can think through the best course of action to nurse your H and marriage back to great health. Pray and surrender your problems to God.<P>God Bless You<BR>weep

Cindiwa,<P>I can relate to your situation in a strange way. I was the on who was unemployed, sat around the house on the computer all day, and had no motivation to go out and find a job. I was in a depression and had no idea about it. I, however, did not have the affair, my wife did. She saw that I was lazy, ignored her pleadings to find work, and felt that I would not be the provider she needed, which it turns out was one of her top emotional needs. I was not chatting, etc., but maybe you should point out to him how it is making you feel, pushing you away, and maybe he will realize that what he is doing could push you to make a big mistake eventualy. <P>

Cindiwa,<P>A couple things to consider: Internet porn in and of itself isn't the evil some would make it out to be. BUT, when it starts to cause problems for you, your H, and your marriage it's a whole differnt thing.<P>In your Hs situation, it has lead to him develop "relationships" with other women via the internet. The arugument that it's not physical and is "innocent" is foolish. If it's causing problems in your marriage there isn't anything innocent about it!<P>Your H claims that he is addicted and that may well be the case. So the question that begs asking is, what is he doing to rid himself of the addiction?<P>Somewhere along the line you are going to have to face the reality that if an addiction exists, then it must be met head on and excusses simply not allowed.<P>I know that sounds hard but if he were addicted to say alcohol would you keep a stocked bar at home with him there by himself? Of course not, no one would.<P>It's time for the computer to go. Or at least all the "communications" software. It's a fairly easy thing to re-format the hard drive, loosing ALL his "friends" e-mail addresses and ICQ information, and then re-installing only the software he really needs. Say, a word processor to work on resumes and such.<P>There are also software packages that will allow you to review each and every keystroke made on the computer. No chance of hiding anything.<P>I would suggest you sit down with him and explain that you understand his addiction, his in ability to deal with it, and that you are offering to help him by doing the above. Do NOT try to do any of this in a sneaky way. Do it up front, be honest, and show him it's a positive step in rebuilding your marriage.<P>If he refuses to make these changes then he is choosing his addiction over his marriage and that should show you what your next move needs to be. You can NOT help a person out of an addition unless they want out.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cindiwa:<BR><B> I believe that he loves me. We are both Christian and believe that pornography is wrong. He has had problems with it for at least 6 years, maybe more. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Would your husband object to talking to a Christian man who has struggled with it? I've been there myself and have realized how much of that is a spiritual battle that Satan hurls at us men. The battle has to start there and realize the battle is taking place in the spiritual realm first. <P>Satan is battling for control of your husband because he knows as your husband goes so goes the marriage.<P>Read this article and tell me what you think. <A HREF="http://www.christianitytoday.com/mp/2000/003/12.28.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.christianitytoday.com/mp/2000/003/12.28.html</A> <P>

<B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Satan is battling for control of your husband because he knows as your husband goes so goes the marriage.<P>Read this article and tell me what you think. <A HREF="http://www.christianitytoday.com/mp/2000/003/12.28.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.christianitytoday.com/mp/2000/003/12.28.html</A> <P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This article had some very good insight. I sent it to my husband to read. I am not sure how he would feel about discussing his problem with someone. I think it would be good for him to discuss it with someone other than myself. I have suggested that we go to our bishop, but he does not like the idea due to the fact that we haven't done well at going to church since our marriage.<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cindiwa:<BR>[BI have suggested that we go to our bishop, but he does not like the idea due to the fact that we haven't done well at going to church since our marriage.<BR>[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>It sounds as though you have other issues besides just pornography. The Church in general is not the easiest place to talk about sexual sin anyway. Would he be willing to talk with someone via email possibly? He could keep his anonymity.<P><BR>

Cindiwa:<P>We could be the same person - my H is very much like yours and we've only been married 8 months.<P>To reply to the person who asked about behaviors before/after the wedding, I knew my H told small lies, but nothing to such great magnitude. I think I didn't see a lot of it because we lived in different places so I couldn't see all the deception. I guess he used to talk to other women all the time on the phone.<P>My H is addicted to porno (on-line and movies), he's a recovering alcoholic/addict, I think he's addicted to "that new love feeling" you have in the beginning of relationships, it goes on and on.<P>I'm also at the end of my rope and I'm not sure if I can hang on anymore. I just don't trust or believe ANYTHING he says.<P>God Bless you. I've been going to al-anon, you may want to try a meeting - the support you get is awesome!<P>LK

[/B][/QUOTE]<BR>Would he be willing to talk with someone via email possibly? He could keep his anonymity.<BR>[/B][/QUOTE]<P>I am not sure, I guess it is always something I could ask him. I really want to help him get over his problem, but I don't know if I am the person he will want to listen to. He doesn't seem to like to take advice from me.<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cindiwa:<BR>[BI am not sure, I guess it is always something I could ask him. I really want to help him get over his problem, but I don't know if I am the person he will want to listen to. He doesn't seem to like to take advice from me.<BR>[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I don't know what kind of guy he is. I am pretty sure he is normal. You mentioned he has had this problem for 6 years. Most men are exposed to pornography in some form during their teen years 14-16. I was exposed to Cosmopolitan and Glamour magazines that my sister had lying around. They titillated me to the point eventually I wanted more and more and the obsession grew and festered. <P>I thought it was normal. And it is in human terms. But being a Christian I was always in conflict about it. However, there was a point where I had so seered my conscience to my sin that I didn't think it was wrong anymore. I justified it because I was lonely and I was not getting the attention from my wife I needed. <P>I think that I thought when I got married my loneliness would go away. Well, it didn't. But I didn't know it and I filled that void with pornography. Nothing real "hard-core". Just nude photographs and the like because I was much too good to look at those hard-core sites (Haha). Some movies as well. <P>Now I look back and see how messed up I was and that I was devaluing myself, my relationship with God and my wife. <P>Here's my email address if you think he would care to talk to somebody. Like I said, this is usually not something that Christian guys want their pastor, Bishop or friends to know about.<P>ba_matthews@yahoo.com<P>I'll tell you one more thing. I was used to watching certain movies that might be on Cinemax. But I surfed the Internet for a long time before I actually looked at a porn site. When I did I was really shocked at myself. The reason is that I had figured a way to block access to Cinemax and others and thought I had beaten it. Then the Internet opened new doors I hadn't thought about.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LadyK:<BR><B>Cindiwa:<P>We could be the same person - my H is very much like yours and we've only been married 8 months.<P>To reply to the person who asked about behaviors before/after the wedding, I knew my H told small lies, but nothing to such great magnitude. I think I didn't see a lot of it because we lived in different places so I couldn't see all the deception. I guess he used to talk to other women all the time on the phone.<P>My H is addicted to porno (on-line and movies), he's a recovering alcoholic/addict, I think he's addicted to "that new love feeling" you have in the beginning of relationships, it goes on and on.<P>I'm also at the end of my rope and I'm not sure if I can hang on anymore. I just don't trust or believe ANYTHING he says.<P>God Bless you. I've been going to al-anon, you may want to try a meeting - the support you get is awesome!<P>LK</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thank You. I could really use the support of someone going through the same things I am. I just don't know where that would be. <P>

Cindiwa:<P>I gave you a reply on my post also. I just want to say that going through this difficult time for months now has been a true test ones self. Having someone to talk to that is in the same situation is definitely helpful. I will check this more often to see your progress. Just remember, be strong and love yourself no matter what happens.<P>BJ<BR>

2B-<P>I read your other post and wanted to say that I understand how you must feel about your husband's "lying" about stopping. I do not condone his activity as a man myself. I believe however you have done yourself a disservice by believing your H is lying to you. Believe it or not, he is just as surprised as you are by his inability to stop doing it. In his heart, he tells himself "No more." Until you both understand the addictive cycle both of you will continue to suffer. Knowledge will set you both free and right now, you are the only person who may know of his struggles and this kind of activity really flourishes in secrecy. You need to be your husband's best friend and accountability partner while he struggles to quit. It is not personal. Trust me.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dogbert:<BR><B>2B-<P>I believe however you have done yourself a disservice by believing your H is lying to you.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I believe him when he tells me that he has an addiction. However, I can't trust him when he tells me he didn't do it last night when he didn't come to bed until 4:00 a.m. Many a night I have woke up at 2:00 a.m. and found him looking up porn in the other bedroom. Of course, knowing that he has an addiction makes it easier for me. I now know that he needs my help, and I can look at it from another prospective

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cindiwa:<BR><B> <P>However, I can't trust him when he tells me he didn't do it last night when he didn't come to bed until 4:00 a.m. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>--- I know what you mean Cin. Sometimes it is difficult to just believe them when they have lied about it over and over again. Also their actions are completely opposite of what they say. Everytime I see my H on the computer, I start thinking the worse. I don't know if that feeling will ever go away. Even though I keep that feeling to myself, because I try to give him the benefit of the doubt, it slowly tears me apart. I guess being where I am right now with this is confusing, because I don't know what he's thinking. I don't know if he even thinks he's addicted and if he does, I wonder if he's actually doing anything about it. <P> I just try not to wonder so much anymore. I have found that if I just keep myself busy, it usually helps. I have taken up oil painting one day a week for a couple of hours and I've also joined a kickboxing class. At this point I just don't want to focus on the negative stuff anymore. I'm tired of beating myself up for something I have no control of. I know it's hard girl. The ups, the downs, the unanswered questions...boy are those hard to live with. I found out that those questions may never be answered, so I stopped searching for answers. <P>I have found one thing out though. I have searched deep into my mind and soul for strength and guidance and found that I can be happy weather or not I stay with my H. The way things are going, I have seriously thought about re-establishing our relationship by asking for space. I refuse to stay in a one-way relationship. I just don't feel the way I used to. Maybe some time apart will give us time to find ourselves the way we used to be and the way we are happy being. I really feel like I need this time...<P>BJ<P><p>[This message has been edited by 2Bornot2B (edited October 30, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cindiwa:<BR><B> I believe him when he tells me that he has an addiction. However, I can't trust him when he tells me he didn't do it last night when he didn't come to bed until 4:00 a.m. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>This is a different story. I would agree with that.<P>

2B-<P>Your H will not come clean and be whole if he never admits that he has an addiction. I am sorry for you that you feel disconnected from him. I thought at one time he admitted an addiciton.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dogbert:<BR><B>2B-<P>I thought at one time he admitted an addiciton.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>At one point he did, in the beginning. He never followed up with getting help or anything. He said he might be then that was it. Nothing else was done. See how confusing it is.<P>BJ

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 2Bornot2B:<BR><B> At one point he did, in the beginning. He never followed up with getting help or anything. He said he might be then that was it. Nothing else was done. See how confusing it is.<P>BJ</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I see how confusing it is.<P>How long ago did he admit to this?<P>What has occured since then to make you have so many doubts about him now?<P>Does he still sneak around?<P>Does he have an Internet filter?<P>

My response is on my post...

My H just admitted he had an addiction to porn a few weeks ago. This has been a problem for a long time. He just started a new job selling furniture and has been so busy working and going to training that he has not had time to do anything. It's been nice. For almost three months he was out of work and he would sit home all day. <P>Every once in a while I search the hard drive for jpg files to see what comes up. So one day (he had been out of work almost 2 months at this point) I did a search and sure enough I found alot of dirty pictures he had saved in a file. And when I say alot it is probably an understatement. I guess you can imagine how upset I was. Here I was working two jobs (I got a second job shortly before he quit his because I wanted to get some money saved up) and he was sitting home looking up porn all day.<P>I was also getting pressure for family and friends. Everyone thought I should kick him out for not working. (No one knows about his porn problem)<P>Well, I am rambling. He admitted that he had a problem, and I suggested that we should go to counseling about our problems but he did not like that idea. He doesn't think I know how to communicate with him, and so he doesn't see the point of going to a councelor so I can tell the counselor my feelings. Make sense? I know I am not really good a sharing my feelings, and that is part of our problem. Marriage is just so complicated. There is so much I want to do, but it is hard. Arrrrrr. It gives me a head ache.

I wanted to let you know that you are not alone. I have been married 3 years and recently found out my husband was addicted to internet porn and soon after I caught him in an affair.<BR>It is so very important for you to encourage your husband to seek help for his addiction. It is a neccesary step in order to save your marriage from any further distruction. Doing so would save you and him from additional pain.<BR>I know from a woman's view that it is so hard to deal with the fact your H would even look at other women. I causes such a blow in self esteem and worth. But I guess that it is difficult because men and women are made so differently. Well, I hope things get better.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SillyMe:<BR><B>I have been married 3 years and recently found out my husband was addicted to internet porn and soon after I caught him in an affair.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is what really scares me. I am afraid the the addiction will turn into something much worse. I almost left my H because of the porn addiction. I don't think I could handle an affair. <P>I really don't think I will be able to convince my H to go into counceling. He just doen't seem to be open to it. My H is very shy and proud at the same time, if that makes any sense. I am the worst at trying to convince him of anything. I always end up sounding irrational. I think I need counceling on how to communicate my feelings in a less impulsive manner. I rarely think things through, and my husband is an over-analyzer. We make a great pair. <P><p>[This message has been edited by Cindiwa (edited November 03, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cindiwa:<BR><B> This is what really scares me. I am afraid the the addiction will turn into something much worse. I almost left my H because of the porn addiction. I don't think I could handle an affair. <P>[This message has been edited by Cindiwa (edited November 03, 2000).]</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Girl, you are definitely not alone with that statement. Cyber*** with OW, that's what my H was doing. Once I pretended to be someone else and talked to him on IM (WARNING: disasterous to do...) My H was a completely different person. He asked for her to meet him for lunch and to talk on the phone and such. When I confronted him about it and told him it was me, he said he always says that, but never goes through with it. I believed him at the time, but now I have my doubts. It's hard to believe someone who has lied over and over again. I don't know why I'm such a sucker and decided to believe him in the first place. I guess it's because I loved him and wanted things to be ok. Well, I have lost a lot of good feelings for him during this period and I'm not happy with that. But ignoring the obvious was a mistake that I will never make again.<P>-BJ<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 2Bornot2B:<BR><B> Once I pretended to be someone else and talked to him on IM (WARNING: disasterous to do...) My H was a completely different person</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I have done this before, but I admitted it was me for it really went anywhere. I have not done it since. I really don't like sneaking around to catch my husband doing something that will devistate me. What are we going to do?

Just when I thought it would get better, and my H was doing good....... today I had to run home from work because our jeep is having problems and my H needed to get to work and.... he left. Sooo... while I was waiting for the tow truck I decided to put laundry away and found some pictures my H had taken of his p***s in his sock drawer. Then I started looking in a stack of papers he had printed off the computer and found the profiles of 4 women in our area that he had printed off oneandonly online matchmaking. Well now I am back at work and I am so furious I can't think.

Tonight is the night. I am going to confront my husband on this latest developement. I am not sure how I will tell him all the things I need to without going off the deep end, but hopefully god will help me through it. <P>Last night I tried to cry because I am so hurt inside, but I just couldn't do it. When I first started realizing the things my husband was doing (over two years ago when we had been married just a couple months) I would cry myself to sleep alot. Now I have nothing in me, I can't even cry.<P>Right now all I want is to be alone. I don't even want him around. It has been a great help to come to this web site. I was actually getting really hopeful that things could and would get better. This latest developement has destroyed my desire to try anymore. Life has always been so good to me, I don't know what I've done to deserve all of this. <P>LOST - Cindiwa

Just breath. No really. Everything happens for a reason. You need to decide at which point this addiction becomes an affair of the mind. I personally believe that my H already had one in his mind with the women he looked at online. A real one was a small step away once I found out about his activities and communication stopped. Have you asked him about the things you found?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SillyMe:<BR><B> You need to decide at which point this addiction becomes an affair of the mind.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This statement is very true. An affair of the mind is so devastating. Our spouces have no idea what they're doing is killing us and our marriage. They think it's just entertainment for them, well in fact it is a stimulation of their mind and soul that we are excluded from. A marriage is a consolidation of two people who desire to grow together. These secrets that our spouces keep are key factors that will eventually destroy the foundation of the marriage. <P>The trust is gone from my M and I now also have no more energy to continue fighting to get it back. My H has not shown me any reassurance for me to be able to trust him again. As a matter of fact, I just found out he's doing it again after telling me the other night that I was all he needed. <P>It's a complete mess and all I can do to recover from the devastation is pray to god he will give me the strength and knowlege to move forward without my H.<P>-BJ<P><p>[This message has been edited by 2Bornot2B (edited November 08, 2000).]

Well, I'm still alive. I talked to my H last night about what I had found, and it went rather well. I just let him know how upset I was, and how much it hurt me. I won't go into all the details, but I decided not to kick him into the street just yet. We have a long way to go, but hopefully we'll make it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cindiwa:<BR><B>and it went rather well. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Woohoo!<P>

Cind-,<BR>It is good to hear that your talk went well. From experience though it is important not to just except words and promises. Especially with any addiction it is important to seek help. You can only tell him so many times that his actions are hurting you and your marriage. He needs to do some leg work as well in order to get the relationship back online. So to speak. <BR>Well keep on keeping on.<p>[This message has been edited by SillyMe (edited November 09, 2000).]